Video camera for youth sports - live stream, graphic overlay

I'm looking at video cameras to record my son's youth hockey games. I've got my eye on this camera:

JVC GY-HM250SP UHD 4K Streaming Camcorder with HD Sports Overlays



It's a little more than I want to spend, but I really like the graphic overlays and the features for adding the scores, plus the ability to live stream. Otherwise I would have to add the scores in post, don't add them at all (even though it would be really nice to have) and then edit/upload later.

Are there others makes/models that have similar features that you can recommend? I'm referring to the overlay and streaming features, not so much the actual camera specs. I'm sure I could get a comparable camera for much less without the overlay and streaming features.

Dante2004 said:

I'm looking at video cameras to record my son's youth hockey games. I've got my eye on this camera:

JVC GY-HM250SP UHD 4K Streaming Camcorder with HD Sports Overlays

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1400280-REG/jvc_gy_hm250sp_gy_hm250_4k_uhd_with.html

It's a little more than I want to spend, but I really like the graphic overlays and the features for adding the scores, plus the ability to live stream. Otherwise I would have to add the scores in post, don't add them at all (even though it would be really nice to have) and then edit/upload later.

Are there others makes/models that have similar features that you can recommend? I'm referring to the overlay and streaming features, not so much the actual camera specs. I'm sure I could get a comparable camera for much less without the overlay and streaming features.

Click to expand...

A bit familiar with the SB industry,

I don't think you'll find another consumer camera maker offering this feature at the moment.


(I guess he's (JVC VP) never seen an Apple or Microsoft launch presentation, apologies for his slow pace)

demonstrates that at JVC this was a novel concept.

Here's why:

• static custom overlays are one thing as far as a technical solve.
• But for the sports utility, dynamic updating of overlays requires a realtime control interface.

JVC was quite generous to build this in.

Limitations to consider:

• you cannot record in 4K and do either overlay or stream. You will be stuck with 1080P sports footage.
• you will need a control interface (wifi tablet) In addition to a device to broadcast and stream the video, you won't be able to do it all through your cellphone alone.
• This turnkey (all built in) is attractive, but consider there may be complexities, especially with trying to stream at 1080 bandwidth from unfamiliar random locations (away games, etc). [Murphy is very cruel in this regard].
• the the tech is designed towards a multi-staffed more intense high school or college set-up, which even then sometimes can't solve all unexpected glitches....

I didn't download the manual and read it, but I suggest you do before making the investment to be aware of all limitations/features.

As to your requirements I approach them categorically:

Stream

Streaming will save you from upload time, but only when the stream conditions were perfect. At the consumer level for 1080HD and the environment youth sports entails, I wouldn't bother as you will be spending more effort troubleshooting/alternative methods (like uploading later). It's best to stick with a stable workflow that you can master with repetition and a disciplined routine. However this camera could be a solve if you wanted to be the team dad that streamed the games for the other families. Dropping bandwidth for streaming and recording better quality may be somewhat of a glitch solver....

Overlay

The built-in usability of a dynamic overlay is a really attractive thing though, as it performs a data tagging function to the footage that otherwise will be difficult to re-create (I imagine).

The alternatives would be:

• some type of stand-alone dynamic overlay generator box with HDMI IN/OUT and a HDMI recorder (like BMD or Atomos) or a capture card and a beefy laptop to record the video with overlay. >wires and powering issue

I don't imagine you will often have a running scoreboard at the games, but if you do, the simple solution is to:

• film the game with one camera, film the scoreboard continuously with another camera (don't have to be fancy, low resolution files are fine).
• With the main camera, don't press pause (except for quarter breaks) but instead just cover the lens with cap/etc. during moments you don't want to film,
• this is important to allow for syncing with the other camera recording the scoreboard for a continuous picture-in-picture add in post.
• In post there is a workflow I have used that utilizes software scene-detect cuts and EDL edits to apply to the timeline with the scoreboard overlay picture in picture.

If you're interested I might be able to explain how to do this given what software you use.....

It's really simple and time-saving. Keep in mind every time you press pause you will have to sync up with the other camera in post, thus the continuous film method.

Or you could go really old school and use a whiteboard or tablet app where you create a scoreboard and film it during breaks in action (focus may be a challenge with a close target). But then you won't have a continuous overlay but at least you will have visually tagged the video with the realtime scoreboard. It's akin to the old-fashioned camera operator pans and films the scoreboard after a score, but with situations where there is no visible scoreboard or a scoreboard with less info than desired....

Thanks for the reply and all the information. It has been really helpful. I wasn't intending to stream in 4k, but didn't realize that it would be downgraded to 1080p. I'll definitely watch that video and read the manual. I'm curious if I can record in 4k and stream in 1080p...I don't know much about these cameras so I'm still learning. I'm a photography guy. haha

I suppose I could just record in 4k and upload later from home and let youtube sort out the resolution versions.

I've used the method you described about one continuous video. In the past I've mounted a gopro behind the net and filmed with a basic camcorder from the stands around center ice. I'd sync the two files from the point of the first puck drop or the buzzer at the end of a period. As your described, it's a pretty handy practice. We do have a running scoreboard and I could just point another camera at that. It should work well.

I didn't realize these features were so unique at this price point, or without adding a lot of external hardware. It's certainly a small niche. Way more expensive than the average consumer camera and not pro level either.

Thanks again!

I'm also interested in similar scoreboard overlay functionality, and yes, this seems to be the only camera that currently supports it as far as I know - and I've searched all the camera manufacturers sites

There are other HDMI overlay boxes but they are all $1k+ and mostly not intended for mobile use - and most require a computer or web access to really work, so it becomes a complex and bulky solution. OBS software and NeTV2 looks the most promising from a functionality and budget point of view.

And as stated by others, streaming is limited to 1080 with overlays, and not 4k. I think I read somewhere that it won't even record in 4k if overlays or streaming is enabled - but I have no actual experience with this camera so might be wrong.

And lastly - streaming bandwidth is still the most limiting factor for mobile use - streaming any usable footage via a mobile/cell phone is practically impossible without cell signal bonding. There are several IRL backpack options, and LiveU Solo (https://gosolo.tv/) seems to be the most popular at the moment - still $1K+ (or google IRL or Gunrun backpack for other solutions). And all of this also comes with a significant data plan requirement (e.g. streaming at youtube HD recommendation at 5000kbps runs at 2.25Gb per hour) - and not any regular "unlimited" plan will work since most regular unlimited plans are actually capped/throttled at some stage (TMobile/Version caps or questions at 22Gb per month). Look at https://www.unlimitedirl.com/ as an example of plans - easily running $500+ per month, in addition to the $2.3k backpack - but then with the JVC camera you'll have redundant functionality (streaming encoder built in)...

Regards

Heinrich

I've been working on a Windows 10 app to live stream and record soccer with a scoreboard overlay. It's free for now if you'd like to try it out. I'd love to get your feedback as I continue to improve it. See https://www.simplesportscaster.com.

I run SimpleSportsCaster on a Microsoft Surface Pro (the 2018 i5 model with LTE). I feed 1080p60 video into the tablet via an AJA U-TAP HDMI but other UVC (USB webcam-style) capture devices will work too.

I use a Sony A7S with the Sony power zoom 18-105 lens. It's mounted on a Zhiyun Crane 2 gimbal with the follow-focus motor connected to the zoom ring on the lens. That's mounted on top of a 13-foot light stand. Then I control the whole thing (aiming and zoom) from the ground using the Crane 2 remote connected via a special 5-wire micro USB extension cable.

Here's a sample game that I recorded recently with this setup:
Cheers,
Adam










Light stand with Crane 2 gimbal and Sony A7S mounted on top (with rain cover). Surface Pro tablet running SimpleSportsCaster mounted on the bottom. Second tripod and wagon to provide extra visual clutter .

That's a really nice setup. I'll look into this, and your overlap as well. Thanks!

Your best choice may be to shoot 1920x1080 / 60p with a camcorder that has a 1" sensor, which will be better in low light than the JVC device, whose sensor is only 1/2.3". Hockey is often played in semi-dim venues at the darkest time of year.

There are various hybrid cameras with 1" sensors, but most are not adopted to extended recording periods. three dedicated camcorders with 1" sensors include:

Canon Vixia HF G60 UHD 4k ($1,700)

Canon Vixia HF GX10 ($1,800), which also offers 4k at 60p, although that may exceed what you can use practically or share.

FDR AX700 ($1,800)

Used versions of these models can be found at a discount.

Tracking hockey action in tight shots tends to be impractical, since the action is unpredictable and can result in jerky pans. In that regard, it is better to shoot semi-wide. One advantage of 4k is that you could shoot wide and they, using key-framing when editing, crop and track the action closer. However, that can entail a lot of work, particularly if you cover an entire event. Otherwise there is little advantage to shooting in 4k, unless your viewers have large 4k screens and available bandwidth.

Concerning the sports overlay, as others have pointed out, that will work only if the camera integrates with the scoreboard system, which may not be easy when attending an "away" match.

Thanks Dante! If you try SimpleSportsCaster I'd love to hear your feedback, good or bad, so I can keep improving it.

Wow, I'd love to know more about the pole setup, camera used, pan, zoom, etc...

buggz said:

Wow, I'd love to know more about the pole setup, camera used, pan, zoom, etc...

Click to expand...

The pole is a light stand model LS-B13AC from Savage Equipment Products. The MSRP is $67 but I got it at my local camera store for about $55.

The orange guy wires are BlueWater 3mm NiteLine Utility Cord available from REI. I cinch them down with 3 Nite Ize CamJam Cord Tighteners also from REI. The slack is taken up by a Miceter retractable clothesline that I modified by removing the clothesline and attaching the guy wires to the reel instead. I use low-cost carabiners to attach the guy wires to the top of the pole and wherever else I need to make a quick connection.

The bottom of the light stand is weighted down with one Yoli weight bag on each of the 3 legs. Each bag contains two 1.5 liter water bottles of the tall-skinny variety available from Trader Joe's or other places. I prefer water over sand because it's easier to deal with (buy/use/dispose) when traveling.

The tablet is attached to the light stand by the combination of a TetherTools AeroTab L2 , Manfrotto 035RL Super Clamp and Joby BallHead 5K.

The camera and pan/tilt/zoom gimbal and remote control I described in one of my previous posts in this thread.

Cheers,
Adam