cosmicnode
Veteran Member
I sold mine I have a Olympud E-M1II alongside my Nikons now for the reach, the evf delay is less but you still need to be aware that it is there when shooting.
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If you like DSLR/OVF for fast actions, but also like EVF for other situations
- Thread starter KLO82
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- canon eos m6
kiwi2
Veteran Member
Yes, but a Nikon 1 V2 is not the cutting edge or mirrorless technology.
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cosmicnode
Veteran Member
It's a example to show what happens due to evf delay, many deny that it can happen at all, they probably don't shoot sports or stand on street corners shooting with wide angle lenses, Some shoot BIF or sports and resort to add on red dot viewfinders because of the delay I have a newer mirrorless and still need to delete photo's due to the evf delay.
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Mike.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."
kiwi2
Veteran Member
It doesn't mean all mirrorless cameras are as bad as each other. I have a Fuji X-T100 that is no good for following action, but my X-T2 with the battery grip and boost mode enabled is a deferent kettle of fish.
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PhotoTeach2
Forum Pro
With "0" lag OVF, if you are "panning" correctly and your subject is centered when you push shutter release, there is indeed mirror/shutter-lag but the subject remains centered until after the mirror drops back down, and you can thus immediately reshoot again because the subject NEVER because un-centered, (again assuming you are correctly panning).
With LAG ... your (albeit-centered) image is ALWAYS behind the subject, and your camera may or may-NOT be actually pointed directly at subject, But your (delayed)recorded image may be still OK if it was "centered" at moment it was RECORDED. But I repeat the camera may NOT have been actually pointed at the subject any more -- maybe CLEAR SKY, (albeit the subject WAS "centered" moments before and thus a "centered" delayed image recorded).
So accepting that the camera may actually (because of the lag) have been pointing BEHIND the subject (ala clear-sky) before the shot ... even if correctly panning, AFTER the shot the camera WILL STILL be looking at CLEAR SKY.
So now a JUGGLING event much occur because you jerk the camera "forward", (to catch-up), but you STILL DON'T AGAIN SEE THE SUBJECT because of L-A-G and when it does reappear, you may now be AHEAD of the subject and have to readjust again, (thus "juggling").
So you CANNOT take ANOTHER shot until you (centered) reacquire the subject again, (but again with a DELAYED image).
This is what is referred to as "closed-loop control".
But HOW can you do that when the displayed image is DELAYED .... ???
Seeing it "centered" only means it WAS "centered" before the lag/delay. You may however NOW be pointed either before or after it.
With a FAST-MOVING subject ... you often want to take a CONTINUOUS-SEQUENCE.
That is problematic if your subject (image) is no longer centered after the first shot.
By the time you re-acquire/center the subject again, it too often is TOO LATE.
No ... he speaks from an older/slower LV on LCD, (vs a faster, more modern, EVF).
So an admitted problem is exasperated, and he refuses to admit newer EVF's have "less" of a problem, (but still a problem to some lesser extent).
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cosmicnode
Veteran Member
I never said they were But the delay exists. Look at the sample gallery for the New 90D https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-90d-initial-review-what-s-new-and-how-it-compares/4 look at the panned photo's of the racing cars framed with more road in front than behind. Now look at the sample galleries here https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-90d-initial-review-what-s-new-and-how-it-compares/4 You will see two panned shots with the M6II where the car has less road in front than behind this, is as in my shot's due to the EVF delay. Someone not used to shooting motorsport may not see this affect or deny it exists.
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Mike.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."
cosmicnode
Veteran Member
This is what I have found with motorsport shots. and seen here
tbcass
Forum Pro
Tracking is when the subject is moving around within the frame and the camera is able to lock on to the subject. The ability to track is important for shooting sports because the subject tends to change direction and there are usually other subjects in the frame you want to ignore, and for BIF because the subject often changes direction. For a tightly framed subject while panning tracking is irrelevant because it fills the frame. Mirrorless cameras are better at tracking because the on sensor PDAF points fill the frame.
For photographing a super high speed airplane tightly framed and moving at a steady speed and direction it's conceivable that a camera with an OVF might be a bit better but I think it's a moot point because with today's high res sensors it's easy to zoom out a little and crop in post. I have used both DSLRs and cameras with EVFs and I always zoom out a bit with both because I'm not skilled enough to keep a tightly cropped plane perfectly in the frame while panning.
chlamchowder
Senior Member
Let's acknowledge a few things on both sides:
Besides action, each finder also has advantages and disadvantages:
- It's 100% possible to track fast action with an EVF. The hitrate advantage with an OVF would be small
- Other factors like lens AF speed, knowledge of the subject/sport (so you know where to point the camera in the first place), and experience (panning takes a lot of practice) mean that we don't have a controlled comparison.
- It's not possible to make an EVF that gives a zero latency preview. There are certain unavoidable steps in generating a preview in the EVF. See https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63044645 for an estimate on what the latency might be like.
- Factors mentioned in #2 above are almost certainly larger factors than OVF vs EVF. In general gear makes very little difference compared to the photographer, and a determined photographer will find a way to get good shots with pretty bad gear.
- If the latest generation of EVFs can bring lag down to 5-18 ms, we're getting close to the difference between 60 Hz and 240 Hz monitors. That's a very small difference that you probably won't notice unless you do a controlled test and see that with an OVF, the reaction-to-shot time is slightly better on average.
- Two shots taken 5-18 ms apart may both be equally usable. That's almost certainly the case with panning, and true much of the time with basketball (multiple shots from a 9 fps burst can be submitted with the same caption).
- From above, I'd be fine with using an EVF for action. It wouldn't be my first choice, but going from OVF to EVF alone certainly will not tank my keeper rate.
Besides action, each finder also has advantages and disadvantages:
- OVF gives much better battery life
- EVF makes it more obvious when your exposure is totally wrong
- OVF lets you use your eye's dynamic range to see the scene
- EVF shows the correct DOF and can magnify to 1:1 for accurate MF w/fast lenses
- and we can go on for days about why one of them is our personal preference for one situation or another.
chlamchowder
Senior Member
Imaging-resource has a lot of timing tests.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-eos-m6/canon-eos-m6A6.HTM - Canon M6 - unfortunately they don't have the M6 ii reviewed
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-80d/canon-80dA6.HTM - Canon 80D. Unfortunately they don't have the 90D reviewed either.
Canon M6: 0.061s prefocused
Canon 80D: 0.057s prefocused, 0.060s prefocused in LV
So M6 vs 80D in LV are practically the same.
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