First dip into Foveon

JT26 said:

Afternoon all,

I have a fair bit of kit and I am not too sure if a Sigma DP will be the right choice and I know its limitations but have a few questions.

I have a GFX MF system and an RX1R II, both of which I love. My main aim for a Sigma, is that when hiking the Fuji is heavy and the Sony just 35mm. I would ideally like a wider and longer focal length too... These would either replace the RX1 (just for hikes) or sit alongside it.

Likely the DP0 and DP2 would be my choice.

Am I missing a glaring reason not to get into this?

Can I easily convert the RAW files in photoshop or do I need a different programme?

Are 90% of the images you guys take tripod based?

Any advice you guys have I'd welcome - You can also see the stuff I tend to shoot on my site

Appreciate your help!

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I am a long time Sigma user, starting in 2005 with the SD10. I have been looking at images here, on this site and many others, from the many Sigma cameras. I decided to pass on the early DP cameras, but from what I can see the early, plain DP2 has its own virtues. And a few flaws. But really the DP2 M(errill) is, from what I have seen, capable of some exquisite images, if you take the time. The same could be said of the dpQ2: but the "look" will be slightly different. Some people love the M sensors, but the other question is whether there is something going on in SPP (for the Merrill cameras) to get the final results that people are so fond of.

The DPQ0 is capable of doing superb work, as many images on this site and others make obvious. It is a superb lens and a perfect (I think) sensor for that lens.

The problem is, if it is a problem, that the various Sigma cameras do not do their best work without some thought and concern for lighting. The Foveon sensor is more like slide film in terms of latitude: If you get it right it looks great, and you have to pick your subjects and exposure with that in mind. On the other hand, the BW images look very nice at a wider range of ISO. Some people are, I think, excessively fond of the Merrill images, but the Q sensor is no slouch; it is, as Scott and others have noted, just different.

People complain about carrying extra batteries for the dp cameras, but really, didn't people carry rolls of film with them in the not too distant past? I never heard anyone complain about carrying extra rolls of film. Is it really so different, or so difficult? I typically carry an extra battery for the sdQ.

The SPP program gives the best results, although apparently not much (if at all) different from the dng (for the Q cameras) files right out of the camera. If you are in a hurry to make images, SPP adds another step in the process. However, if making images in a hurry is your objective you may be headed away from the reason to buy and use the Sigma cameras.

I have never used a tripod with my shots, and the SD10 and sdQ manage just fine here in the tropics. But to get the best from the cameras, at ISO 100 or 200, obviously you have to use a tripod. I mean, if you are buying the camera to get every last bit of "resolution" (however anyone wants to define resolution) out of the camera and system, you need to use a tripod or some other way to hold the camera still. And then after that, as you have said, the detail in the image gets beyond what you can see or even print.

I believe at this point you have apparently decided to get a dpQ0, and I hope it works out well for you. As I understand it, the "0" is NOT a small camera.

For me the key for the Sigma/Foveon cameras is to think about what you are doing in terms of transparency film, as compared to color (negative)- print film. Sometimes the detail and color you see on screen is just amazing.

Best wishes with whatever you decide.




A snapshot of the wife from Cloud Nine, Siargao, Philippines




Island Hopping Boat, Camiguin, Philippines





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My small gallery: http://www.pbase.com/richard44/inbox

Scottelly said:

That ISO 1600 shots of the people in the park and the building shot above that one actually look usable Noël, which I find amazing, because most of my ISO 800 shots are totally unusable, even if I try to denoise them in SPP with the color noise reduction. May I ask how you got those shots to look so good?

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SPP NR luminance 0 (far left) and noise processing with RawTherapee.

But, according to the few tests of treatment that I realized on photos resulting from the SDQ, I find the DPQ more powerful.









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Paris - La Defense at 78.5Mpix:

Thanks for the write up.

I think I will pick up a Merrill at some point, as they really do have a special way of rendering texture. Unlike anything I have seen. But for now I have bought a DP3 Q and maybe in the near future will buy a DP0... However I am a little conscious that they could be replaced in the next year so I am reluctant to get a boat load of DP's for them all to be super-seeded.

Merrills are terribly hard to find in the UK. Not a single dealer on the web (that I can find) has any used in stock.

Thanks for the two samples. Something very film like about these cameras.

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http://www.shootingstills.co.uk/
https://500px.com/candidshooter

Have a look at eBay.

There are nearly two dozens of different merrill models from GB, Japan, Germany, Switzerland, France, ...

take care

...

One has just been listed interestingly in the UK and I have messages another in france.

Thanks!

Amazing. Thanks Noël.

Appreciate the info and the links. Very helpful site too Scott so thanks once again.

There was one image comparison that made me want to buy at least one DPM camera and it was on this link - the second to last comparison showing a massive amount of detail in the background mountains... The textures are amazing - https://outlivingblog.wordpress.com...igma-dp2-quattro-and-comparison-with-merrill/

So I bought a DP2 Merrill and it arrived today, it's in remarkably good condition, lens and sensor seem perfect.

So the DP2 along with the DP3 Q for now will do me... Unless I find a bargain on a 0 / 1 in the coming weeks. But I think I am interested in future releases.

I really appreciate every comment and post. Its been very helpful. When I take some meaningful images I will make a post here - Maybe this weekend

JT26 said:

So I bought a DP2 Merrill and it arrived today, it's in remarkably good condition, lens and sensor seem perfect.

So the DP2 along with the DP3 Q for now will do me... Unless I find a bargain on a 0 / 1 in the coming weeks. But I think I am interested in future releases.

I really appreciate every comment and post. Its been very helpful. When I take some meaningful images I will make a post here - Maybe this weekend

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I look forward to seeing your results. Perhaps you will contribute to the weekly threads.

Yes, that's an excellent example of how a 1:1:1 Foveon sensor differs from a Quattro (or a CFA) sensor, though I don't think things are quite the same today, with the latest processing of the images by SPP 6.6.1. Still, I can't wait to see what the full-frame camera will be capable of capturing, compared to the SD Quattro H.

Cheers Scott. When you say not the same, do you mean Quattro has closed that gap? Or Merrill processing no longer lets you see detail like that? Hoping the former

One thing I’ve notices straight away is the simplicity of the camera. Ricoh GR / Leicaesque in a way and I really like that.

One more quick question. How imperative is a screen loupe? Assume in sun you can still make some detail out on the rear screen?

JT26 said:

Cheers Scott. When you say not the same, do you mean Quattro has closed that gap? Or Merrill processing no longer lets you see detail like that? Hoping the former

One thing I’ve notices straight away is the simplicity of the camera. Ricoh GR / Leicaesque in a way and I really like that.

One more quick question. How imperative is a screen loupe? Assume in sun you can still make some detail out on the rear screen?

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Far as I know, Scott hasn't owned a DP or a dp Sigma, so he may not be able to offer any experience although an opinion may still be forthcoming ... ;-)

I have owned a DP1s, DP2, DP2s, a DP1 Merrill and three DP2 Merrills. I have never found a screen loupe imperative as such, as in can't live without it.

But I have always owned hot-shoe-mount optical viewfinders because here, under the Texas sun, the screens can get quite faint. So, I'll make sure of the basic settings in the shade and wear a wide brimmed hat to focus, etc.

I'm sure a loupe makes life easier with the DP/dp's; just yet more clutter to carry around...

That's perfect thanks for the info. I will go without then, I am not too bothered if its partially visible, as long as I can see something to frame with and focus.

Yes I might look for a viewfinder. Are there 45mm ones or just 40/50mm?

Thanks for the help.