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Red-dot sight?

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davidedric

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I've seen many comments and examples of using a red-dot sight for shooting BIF's and planes.

However, I dont really know what one is, how to use it and how it helps.

Please can someone enlighten me, either directly or with links (a lot of the material I have come across seems to involve shooting still or slow moving targets with bullets, which feels like a different kind of application).

I'd be using a G80, if that helps.

Thanks, Dave
 
 
A very recent thread. If you read, at least, all of the posts from the OP, you will be clearer.

I’ve just received the aluminium bar that I’ll cut and file to fit my G80’s hot shoe and provide a rail for the red-dot sight (originally intended for a rifle).
 
An optical device which, when you look into it, seems to project a red dot at infinity.

When used correctly it allows you to aim or point a device - eg camera, telescope or gun - at a target.

With both eyes open you can see your target and the red dot. If the sight is properly aligned, your camera (or other device) will be on target when the dot is ‘on’ your target.

The real advantage occurs when you are using a high magnification device which would otherwise be difficult (challenging) to point at your target, eg a long telephoto lens. Using the red dot your sighting and pointing is done at 1x magnification

Red Dot Sights have been used by amateur astronomers for decades.

The better devices have a a dot or cross, with selectable colour and brightness controls. Most mount to the camera hot shoe.

Peter
 
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davidedric said:
I've seen many comments and examples of using a red-dot sight for shooting BIF's and planes.

However, I dont really know what one is, how to use it and how it helps.

Please can someone enlighten me, either directly or with links (a lot of the material I have come across seems to involve shooting still or slow moving targets with bullets, which feels like a different kind of application).
Click to expand...
So called "Red Dot sight" is a reflex sight (the name "Red Dot" comes just from a brand that projected just a red dot instead any other shape of reticle) that has a laser or holographic projector (cheap models has a just LED) projecting a sight picture on piece of glass that you can look through and you get a sight picture to infinity. The glass piece is slightly curved and this way depending the model there is little to no parallax error and you can look at the sight from any normal distance (arm length) or small angle and the projected sight will tell you where it is pointing.


You can get all kind cheap (and small) ones as they work good enough in most cases, some just has serious parallax error.

One mistake that most will do is that they will teach to zero the sight with the center focus point at some distance. Instead what you should do is to zero the sight parallel with the center focus point to infinity. So if distance between center of your lens and center of the sight is 12 cm, then you will zero the sight so it will always be 12 cm above the center AF point. Then regardless of your focal length or subject distance, your sight will always be 12 cm above the target and you know that and you can easily compensate to it by just aim little bit above target. So take the measurement between sight and mount center and then move that to something like 3 meters and point camera so the center focus point is at the bottom measurement and then zero sight so it is on top measurement. This way you have correct parallel sight zeroed.
 
Tommi K1 said:
davidedric said:
I've seen many comments and examples of using a red-dot sight for shooting BIF's and planes.

However, I dont really know what one is, how to use it and how it helps.

Please can someone enlighten me, either directly or with links (a lot of the material I have come across seems to involve shooting still or slow moving targets with bullets, which feels like a different kind of application).
Click to expand...
So called "Red Dot sight" is a reflex sight (the name "Red Dot" comes just from a brand that projected just a red dot instead any other shape of reticle) that has a laser or holographic projector (cheap models has a just LED) projecting a sight picture on piece of glass that you can look through and you get a sight picture to infinity. The glass piece is slightly curved and this way depending the model there is little to no parallax error and you can look at the sight from any normal distance (arm length) or small angle and the projected sight will tell you where it is pointing.


You can get all kind cheap (and small) ones as they work good enough in most cases, some just has serious parallax error.

One mistake that most will do is that they will teach to zero the sight with the center focus point at some distance. Instead what you should do is to zero the sight parallel with the center focus point to infinity. So if distance between center of your lens and center of the sight is 12 cm, then you will zero the sight so it will always be 12 cm above the center AF point. Then regardless of your focal length or subject distance, your sight will always be 12 cm above the target and you know that and you can easily compensate to it by just aim little bit above target. So take the measurement between sight and mount center and then move that to something like 3 meters and point camera so the center focus point is at the bottom measurement and then zero sight so it is on top measurement. This way you have correct parallel sight zeroed.
Click to expand...
I find that I do much better when I setup the sight for the specific targets. I only use it for small, fast moving targets (like flying swallows) and I am primarily interested in images when the bird is relatively close to me. If I photograph them at a greater distance, they will still be in the frame, just not exactly in the middle.

My preset distance for swallows is 40 feet for my Olympus 300mm lenses with the MC14 or MC20. At 40 feet the bird needs to be completely within the small sight circle (Olympus EE-1) or you will cutoff parts of the bird, so shooting a little over the bird will not work. For larger birds, I just use the EVF.
 
drj3 said:
Tommi K1 said:
davidedric said:
I've seen many comments and examples of using a red-dot sight for shooting BIF's and planes.

However, I dont really know what one is, how to use it and how it helps.

Please can someone enlighten me, either directly or with links (a lot of the material I have come across seems to involve shooting still or slow moving targets with bullets, which feels like a different kind of application).
Click to expand...
So called "Red Dot sight" is a reflex sight (the name "Red Dot" comes just from a brand that projected just a red dot instead any other shape of reticle) that has a laser or holographic projector (cheap models has a just LED) projecting a sight picture on piece of glass that you can look through and you get a sight picture to infinity. The glass piece is slightly curved and this way depending the model there is little to no parallax error and you can look at the sight from any normal distance (arm length) or small angle and the projected sight will tell you where it is pointing.


You can get all kind cheap (and small) ones as they work good enough in most cases, some just has serious parallax error.

One mistake that most will do is that they will teach to zero the sight with the center focus point at some distance. Instead what you should do is to zero the sight parallel with the center focus point to infinity. So if distance between center of your lens and center of the sight is 12 cm, then you will zero the sight so it will always be 12 cm above the center AF point. Then regardless of your focal length or subject distance, your sight will always be 12 cm above the target and you know that and you can easily compensate to it by just aim little bit above target. So take the measurement between sight and mount center and then move that to something like 3 meters and point camera so the center focus point is at the bottom measurement and then zero sight so it is on top measurement. This way you have correct parallel sight zeroed.
Click to expand...
I find that I do much better when I setup the sight for the specific targets. I only use it for small, fast moving targets (like flying swallows) and I am primarily interested in images when the bird is relatively close to me. If I photograph them at a greater distance, they will still be in the frame, just not exactly in the middle.

My preset distance for swallows is 40 feet for my Olympus 300mm lenses with the MC14 or MC20. At 40 feet the bird needs to be completely within the small sight circle (Olympus EE-1) or you will cutoff parts of the bird, so shooting a little over the bird will not work. For larger birds, I just use the EVF.
Click to expand...
I take the same approach. Birds further than my calibrated distance will be in the frame. Birds closer will be just too difficult and often get cut off anyway.

I much prefer to track with the dot (I prefer the red cross of my sight) on the bird rather than trying to allow for the offset. In fact I try to lead the bird to get a more aesthetic framing. But those darn swallows are so fast and unpredictable I’m happy to get them anywhere in frame.

Peter
 
drj3 said:
At 40 feet the bird needs to be completely within the small sight circle (Olympus EE-1) or you will cutoff parts of the bird, so shooting a little over the bird will not work. For larger birds, I just use the EVF.
Click to expand...
If you know the Mil for the sight, you know how to aim, as the reflex sights reticles sizes are set in Mil and you that way range the target and correct the elevation relation to the reticle size, as well take a lead to the sight size.

When you learn to use the reflex sight, you don't anymore even notice it as it is just superimposed to your vision and you hit the target without thinking the reticle.

The point is, setting sight parallel with the center AF point allows you accurately without thinking focus correctly on any small bird from 2 meters to 50 meters. Zeroing the sight to center AF point at given distance doesn't allow that.
 
Tommi K1 said:
drj3 said:
At 40 feet the bird needs to be completely within the small sight circle (Olympus EE-1) or you will cutoff parts of the bird, so shooting a little over the bird will not work. For larger birds, I just use the EVF.
Click to expand...
If you know the Mil for the sight, you know how to aim, as the reflex sights reticles sizes are set in Mil and you that way range the target and correct the elevation relation to the reticle size, as well take a lead to the sight size.

When you learn to use the reflex sight, you don't anymore even notice it as it is just superimposed to your vision and you hit the target without thinking the reticle.

The point is, setting sight parallel with the center AF point allows you accurately without thinking focus correctly on any small bird from 2 meters to 50 meters. Zeroing the sight to center AF point at given distance doesn't allow that.
Click to expand...
Tommy,

What red dot sight do you shoot with and what targets are you shooting?
 
Lot's of great replies to this thread already. A suggestion, pick up one and give it a try with birds or insects in flight and see how you do with one. The Olympus EE-1 is a great option. I did a review:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62763082
 
Very helpful replies, both theoretical and practical.

I think I'm going to get the Olympus EE-1. I'll be shooting with the Panasonic 100-300 on a G80, so it should be a good match. I'll head down our local mere and see what I can do.

Dave
 
Chris R-UK said:
Tommi K1 said:
drj3 said:
At 40 feet the bird needs to be completely within the small sight circle (Olympus EE-1) or you will cutoff parts of the bird, so shooting a little over the bird will not work. For larger birds, I just use the EVF.
Click to expand...
If you know the Mil for the sight, you know how to aim, as the reflex sights reticles sizes are set in Mil and you that way range the target and correct the elevation relation to the reticle size, as well take a lead to the sight size.

When you learn to use the reflex sight, you don't anymore even notice it as it is just superimposed to your vision and you hit the target without thinking the reticle.

The point is, setting sight parallel with the center AF point allows you accurately without thinking focus correctly on any small bird from 2 meters to 50 meters. Zeroing the sight to center AF point at given distance doesn't allow that.
Click to expand...
Tommy,

What red dot sight do you shoot with and what targets are you shooting?
Click to expand...
Which one you ask for, on firearms and other weapons or on photography cameras?
 
Has anyone tried using a red-dot sight with varifocal glasses? Logic tells me it should be ok since the sight and the "real world" should both be through the long distance part of the lens?

Thanks, Dave
 
Last edited:
Tommi K1 said:
drj3 said:
At 40 feet the bird needs to be completely within the small sight circle (Olympus EE-1) or you will cutoff parts of the bird, so shooting a little over the bird will not work. For larger birds, I just use the EVF.
Click to expand...
If you know the Mil for the sight, you know how to aim, as the reflex sights reticles sizes are set in Mil and you that way range the target and correct the elevation relation to the reticle size, as well take a lead to the sight size.

When you learn to use the reflex sight, you don't anymore even notice it as it is just superimposed to your vision and you hit the target without thinking the reticle.

The point is, setting sight parallel with the center AF point allows you accurately without thinking focus correctly on any small bird from 2 meters to 50 meters. Zeroing the sight to center AF point at given distance doesn't allow that.
Click to expand...
Have you ever photographed flying swallows with a lens of 600mm FF FOV or greater?

You are trying to photograph a 7x12 inch bird flying at 34-60 feet per second. The FOV of my 300mm f4+MC20 at 40 feet is 10.4 x 13.8 inches, with the MC14 it is 14.86 x 19.77 inches. The FOV of the 300mm without the TCs is 20.8 x 27.68 much easier to keep the bird in the frame with the DOT sight, but I often just switch to the EVF with the 300mm. You need to keep the bird in the frame for at least 3-5 frames to allow the E-M1.2 prediction algorithm to accurately predict focus. Actual focus or the focus point placement for the frame is not relevant, since the bird will not be at that distance or position at exposure.

With larger birds a DOT sight is not as good as simply using the EVF, since it is easy to keep things like geese, ducks, hawks, seagulls with the EVF where you can evaluate focus point placement and focus accuracy. I do occasionally use the DOT sight with larger birds. I wear glasses when I use the DOT sight photographing small fast moving target. If a large bird flies overhead, I will use the DOT sight and I have no difficulty accurately framing the slow moving targets with my settings.

The attached are large birds where I used the DOT sight in such situations (all images uncropped).















--
drj3
 
davidedric said:
Has anyone tried using a red-dot sight with varifocal glasses? Logic tells me it should be ok since the sight and the "real world" should both be through the long distance part of the lens?

Thanks, Dave
Click to expand...
I think you're right, though I don't wear varifocals. I can't see anything close and need reading glasses, but I use the dot sight without glasses and the crosswires aren't the least bit fuzzy

Mike
 
davidedric said:
Very helpful replies, both theoretical and practical.

I think I'm going to get the Olympus EE-1. I'll be shooting with the Panasonic 100-300 on a G80, so it should be a good match. I'll head down our local mere and see what I can do.

Dave
Click to expand...
Clearly many here enjoy using these sights. I want to share my experience so you can make a good decision about its use.

It's good that you're going to give it a try. As photographers, it's always fun to try new things (tools, techniques and locations).

I tried one and found it did not increase my enjoyment of photography:

It's one more thing to carry (and I know most of us look to lighten the load).

It requires setting up and adjustments. For me, it was a distraction from photography, rather than an enhancement.

It can become a crutch. You'll get used to it, then if it fails (the battery dies or the site breaks) your skills may have atrophied.

Using it properly can increase your rate of keepers. I, personally, do not judge a successfully day by my keeper rate.

I've gotten great pictures of swallows flying and other small birds without using a sight. I'm still working on dragonflies. For me, the challenge is part of the fun, especially noticing improvement in my techniques.

So if a red-dot site doesn't work for you, don't worry. We all have our different methods and different measures of success.

(I also do not use BBF or Olympus' Pro Capture and seldon use CAT or burst.)

This isn't a knock against the sights or those who like them. In photography, there is no right or wrong.

Have fun. I look forward to hearing your report and seeing your pictures.

--
I believe in science, evolution and light. All opinions are my own. I'm not compensated for any of my posts. Can you honestly say that?
 
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davidedric said:
Has anyone tried using a red-dot sight with varifocal glasses? Logic tells me it should be ok since the sight and the "real world" should both be through the long distance part of the lens?

Thanks, Dave
Click to expand...
Yes I do and it is not a problem. I use a generic red-dot sight with my 100-400 particularly for aircraft at airshows. Without it, it can sometimes be impossible to find the aircraft, let alone photograph it.

Whichever red-dot sight you get, it is the mount on the camera which tends to be the biggest issue.
 
Tommi K1 said:
Chris R-UK said:
Tommi K1 said:
drj3 said:
At 40 feet the bird needs to be completely within the small sight circle (Olympus EE-1) or you will cutoff parts of the bird, so shooting a little over the bird will not work. For larger birds, I just use the EVF.
Click to expand...
If you know the Mil for the sight, you know how to aim, as the reflex sights reticles sizes are set in Mil and you that way range the target and correct the elevation relation to the reticle size, as well take a lead to the sight size.

When you learn to use the reflex sight, you don't anymore even notice it as it is just superimposed to your vision and you hit the target without thinking the reticle.

The point is, setting sight parallel with the center AF point allows you accurately without thinking focus correctly on any small bird from 2 meters to 50 meters. Zeroing the sight to center AF point at given distance doesn't allow that.
Click to expand...
Tommy,

What red dot sight do you shoot with and what targets are you shooting?
Click to expand...
Which one you ask for, on firearms and other weapons or on photography cameras?
Click to expand...
Photography of course. This is a photographic site, not a firearms site.
 
davidedric said:
Has anyone tried using a red-dot sight with varifocal glasses? Logic tells me it should be ok since the sight and the "real world" should both be through the long distance part of the lens?

Thanks, Dave
Click to expand...
I use an EE-1 with varifocals without any problem at all.
 
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