FP -> Foveon make your suggestions to Sigma here

If Medium format is the future as you say, then I wonder how many in this forum would (and can afford) a MF Foveon?

Sigma would have to do a new lens lineup for MF as well.

Sorry I don't see this making economic sense in the doom and gloom industry.
 
If Medium format is the future as you say, then I wonder how many in this forum would (and can afford) a MF Foveon?

Sigma would have to do a new lens lineup for MF as well.

Sorry I don't see this making economic sense in the doom and gloom industry.
I agree with you about affordability and lenses. And yet, it is just one step further in the direction the industry has moved in the last few years. Not a step I would welcome.
 
Me: At this point, and I hope I'm wrong, the modularity and diminutive size of the fp in either Foveon or Bayer incarnations, seems to indicate, with the appropriate lens releases, that a DP series isn't on the cards.
You: I agree, but maybe they plan to sell a full-frame DP series anyway, if there's enough interest in such a thing. Obviously they can make a very small full-frame camera. They've proved that now.

I agree- it is SIGMA, and they've had this small fixed lens camera DNA as their mission for a while- I'm less pessimistic about a DP FFF now. If the price is good, I'll consider one, but as I've only just bought my DP0 new, I won't be replacing/ doubling up on that soon as I really like it, and am still learning. The DP3M could be complimented with a new version, especially with a viewfinder option, we'll see. I'm pleased SIGMA are making some bold steps in a very conservative industry, listening to photographers before they make the cameras. Way to go!

Actually, the fp interests me more, a Foveon FF sensor with some Leica glass- the Leica 120mm TS-APO-Elmar-S f/5.6 ASPH Lens has been on my list for a while, waiting for a sensor good enough. The fp Foveon might be it. This is more for technical projects, to make large prints as it is getting harder to shoot 5x4 sheet film these days.

I'm pleased SIGMA are making some bold steps in a very conservative industry, listening to photographers before they make the cameras. Way to go!
 
My prediction for SD2 camera (realistic, not dreaming here)

HARDWARE

Given: L-mount, big grip, EVF, 20-24 Mpix effective, full compatibility only with GV lenses

My prediction:

Body similar to olympus M-1X ( which body is very similar to SD1)which can take 2-3 batteries

Classic, NOT a modular system (fp),no clip modularity, size close to Panasonic S1,

EVF- 3 mpix (A7RII level), centred

No Medium format -no need for that, IQ will be better than 50mpx MF with ISO <1600)

Tilt screen (no selfie mode),accessory screen same as in SDQ but with more function

No heat sink (not necessary as no video)

2 SD card slots

Classic hot-shoe

No pop up flash

USB-C charging

No GPS, perhaps wi-fi, good tethering function

L→ SD adapter will need a new firmware

Multiaspect FF sensor similar to Pana LX100 (this one is a bit wild prediction)

Name: SD2 something

No huge surprises here, most of R&D will go to fp line (where money is)

My suggestion:

I would prefer modular system (they might do it this way,to save $$$) = lots of hardware shared with fp camera (built in EVF though)

touchscreen (but won’t happen); IBIS (won’t happen), if it happens do pixel shift, but not that necessary as with Bayer cameras anyways,body with 2 batteries, back lit buttons, new L-->SD adapter which accept filters,

“SOFTWARE”

Given: better DR, AF,ISO than SD quattro,DNG

My Prediction:

No video, usable ISO up to 6400 (in colour),some new in camera processing tricks with powerful quad core processor, no mobile phone apps, APS-C crop mode,DNG RAW in SPP

My suggestion: 16 bit RAW, lower ISO options

Will sell much less than fp, possibly last Foveon camera (hope not!), price:2000-2500USD

P.s. I will buy FF Foveon in ANY shape and form, only question I have is how the FF Foveon will handle UWA lenses made for L-mount

Cheers,

Rado
 
If Medium format is the future as you say, then I wonder how many in this forum would (and can afford) a MF Foveon?

Sigma would have to do a new lens lineup for MF as well.

Sorry I don't see this making economic sense in the doom and gloom industry.
I Actually mention Medium format is the way to Save Foveon sensor. We might not afford in the short run. And also its clear that we are not enough to save foveon as they stop SA line of cameras witch means our purchase volume was not enough to sustain SA camera line. L-mount Foveon sensor cameras will be probably way more expansive than SA counter parts anyways and I dont think we can afford it anyway.

For Foveon to survive and for us to keep using it Sigma needs a steady linear sale rate. With good profitability. I only see it coming in Pro pro market. We are lucky to use Foveon sensor in a cheap way because of not Sigma's commercial profit logic. Because The Ceo wants to Realize dream of his late father. To produce Cameras under Sigma brand.

That reality seem to shift to Bayer sensor with the FP. Which if successful will provide even more Bayer sensor cameras. Then when the Bayer sensors provide Commercial success and investment turnaround we will see a drastic rise in Foveon sensor prices as Foveon is no longer needed for sustainability of the brand. Then it will be out of reach anyway. What I hope that a medium format Foveon sensor will provide sustainability for Foveon sensor lifeline and hopefully manage the cost of newFF foveon line for us.

1000 usd for a SDQH is and was a real bargain. It could be 2500 quite easily.

I also dont see any economic sense for Sigma to keep going after Foveon either. And thats why i am tinkering which is the best way to keep Foveon sensor alive and economic enough.
 
I Actually mention Medium format is the way to Save Foveon sensor.
Except Sigma doesn't make any MF lenses. It seems like they would be stretching themselves too thin to launch yet another line of lenses when they already make their own SA and L mount lenses, Full Frame and APS-C lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and mirrorless, and m4/3 lenses.

Sigma seems to have pretty clearly planted their flag in the Full Frame sand as their flagship line of lenses (Art), and now bodies.
1000 usd for a SDQH is and was a real bargain. It could be 2500 quite easily.
It's a very limited use camera that not many people want. Basic economics.
 
If Medium format is the future as you say, then I wonder how many in this forum would (and can afford) a MF Foveon?

Sigma would have to do a new lens lineup for MF as well.

Sorry I don't see this making economic sense in the doom and gloom industry.
I Actually mention Medium format is the way to Save Foveon sensor. We might not afford in the short run. And also its clear that we are not enough to save foveon as they stop SA line of cameras witch means our purchase volume was not enough to sustain SA camera line.
That's a completely backwards logic. SA camera sales were enough for Sigma to continue development of new Foveon cameras, but with a proper short flange mirrorless mount.

Full Frame Foveon has been their aspiration for years and finally it's within reach. While no other sensor benefits more from size than Foveon, I don't see a medium format Sigma anytime soon.
 
1080p 30 fps max will do :-)

Now I must be off to the town square to be put into the stocks and pelted and pilloried by p(h)otographic purists who want their (o)pinions to predominate.

at :-| m14.
 
1080p 30 fps max will do :-)

Now I must be off to the town square to be put into the stocks and pelted and pilloried by p(h)otographic purists who want their (o)pinions to predominate.

at :-| m14.


319b7f5b29f1411792f58cf1e40355ec.jpg
 
1080p 30 fps max will do :-)

Now I must be off to the town square to be put into the stocks and pelted and pilloried by p(h)otographic purists who want their (o)pinions to predominate.

at :-| m14.
I'm with you atom.

I'd be happy if Sigma did include basic HD video but 24fps would be better. But if they don't include it I won't be crushed. I may not even be interested in a 35mm Foveon, it depends on how good the camera and IQ is.
 
1080p 30 fps max will do :-)

Now I must be off to the town square to be put into the stocks and pelted and pilloried by p(h)otographic purists who want their (o)pinions to predominate.

at :-| m14.
I'm with you atom.

I'd be happy if Sigma did include basic HD video but 24fps would be better. But if they don't include it I won't be crushed. I may not even be interested in a 35mm Foveon, it depends on how good the camera and IQ is.
Ta, ΣCr.

I'll move over and make a space in the stocks for ya. :-D

atom14.
 
1080p 30 fps max will do :-)

Now I must be off to the town square to be put into the stocks and pelted and pilloried by p(h)otographic purists who want their (o)pinions to predominate.

at :-| m14.
I'm with you atom.

I'd be happy if Sigma did include basic HD video but 24fps would be better. But if they don't include it I won't be crushed. I may not even be interested in a 35mm Foveon, it depends on how good the camera and IQ is.
Ta, ΣCr.

I'll move over and make a space in the stocks for ya. :-D

atom14.
Kinky, but OK.
 
I Actually mention Medium format is the way to Save Foveon sensor.
Except Sigma doesn't make any MF lenses. It seems like they would be stretching themselves too thin to launch yet another line of lenses when they already make their own SA and L mount lenses, Full Frame and APS-C lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and mirrorless, and m4/3 lenses.

Sigma seems to have pretty clearly planted their flag in the Full Frame sand as their flagship line of lenses (Art), and now bodies.
1000 usd for a SDQH is and was a real bargain. It could be 2500 quite easily.
It's a very limited use camera that not many people want. Basic economics.
Except Sigma doesn't make any MF lenses. It seems like they would be stretching themselves too thin to launch yet another line of lenses when they already make their own SA and L mount lenses, Full Frame and APS-C lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and mirrorless, and m4/3 lenses.

Sigma seems to have pretty clearly planted their flag in the Full Frame sand as their flagship line of lenses (Art), and now bodies.

Most of their art series lens could be turned in to MF lens. And Sooner or later they have to invest into MF. Studio photography is was and still where the money is and studio photography is where most of the shortcomings of Foveon sensor doesn't count. For a lens company there can be no stretch thin issue for more lens production its just money over time issue. Once you reach market saturation only way to increase lens sales is to go in to new market segments as their new mirror less lens segment implies.

It's a very limited use camera that not many people want. Basic economics.

Well if your statement correct than a Ferrari should be 1000 USD and a Toyota Corolla should be 3500 USD.

I am coming from age of DSLRs. The nearest experience you get to DSLR Dia-positive exprience is Foveon where you face the limitation of your camera to express your creativity. that was the Age of photography. Now its age of Photoshop. I greatly enjoy Foveon sensor end result where you mostly not need to do any correctional works. or if you fail you fail miserably so there is nothing to save.
 
My kit, after I sold off my medium format system, consists of Leica M, Sigma DP2M and DP3M.

The best outcome for me would be FF Foveon X3 in a body similar to Leica M but with EVF with usable ISO at 3200. That’s all I would need.
 
My kit, after I sold off my medium format system, consists of Leica M, Sigma DP2M and DP3M.

The best outcome for me would be FF Foveon X3 in a body similar to Leica M but with EVF with usable ISO at 3200. That’s all I would need.
That would be the dream. Even if 3200 was only usable in monochrome mode.

I would also hope they'd take a lesson from Leica and take a light-handed approach to noise reduction & sharpening - that can all be done in post.
 
<>

Perhaps Sigma are heading towards computational photography
No doubt in my mind about that, Mike. Starting with SPP2's good old "Fill Light" aka the best thing since sliced bread ...

I also remember comparing SD9 shots between DCRAW (no NR) and SPP (NR whether you want it or not) ... :-(
 
I Actually mention Medium format is the way to Save Foveon sensor.
Except Sigma doesn't make any MF lenses. It seems like they would be stretching themselves too thin to launch yet another line of lenses when they already make their own SA and L mount lenses, Full Frame and APS-C lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and mirrorless, and m4/3 lenses.

Sigma seems to have pretty clearly planted their flag in the Full Frame sand as their flagship line of lenses (Art), and now bodies.
1000 usd for a SDQH is and was a real bargain. It could be 2500 quite easily.
It's a very limited use camera that not many people want. Basic economics.
Except Sigma doesn't make any MF lenses. It seems like they would be stretching themselves too thin to launch yet another line of lenses when they already make their own SA and L mount lenses, Full Frame and APS-C lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and mirrorless, and m4/3 lenses.

Sigma seems to have pretty clearly planted their flag in the Full Frame sand as their flagship line of lenses (Art), and now bodies.

Most of their art series lens could be turned in to MF lens. And Sooner or later they have to invest into MF. Studio photography is was and still where the money is and studio photography is where most of the shortcomings of Foveon sensor doesn't count. For a lens company there can be no stretch thin issue for more lens production its just money over time issue. Once you reach market saturation only way to increase lens sales is to go in to new market segments as their new mirror less lens segment implies.

It's a very limited use camera that not many people want. Basic economics.

Well if your statement correct than a Ferrari should be 1000 USD and a Toyota Corolla should be 3500 USD.

I am coming from age of DSLRs. The nearest experience you get to DSLR Dia-positive exprience is Foveon where you face the limitation of your camera to express your creativity. that was the Age of photography. Now its age of Photoshop. I greatly enjoy Foveon sensor end result where you mostly not need to do any correctional works. or if you fail you fail miserably so there is nothing to save.
You also don't need MF for studio work. You just need megapixels.

You control the lighting so you can saturate the sensor as much as you want by just dialing the strobes a bit higher. You're typically not dealing with huge dynamic range as with landscapes.

What you need is fast & accurate AF, megapixels and speed.

Despite what everyone says - even if you're shooting portraits of someone who's relatively still, you want to have faith in your autofocus system - you don't want to miss that one great shot of a genuine laugh (which often comes with a lot of motion) because your camera didn't AF properly.

You want speed for those moments when something interesting happens - or that one time a year you get a dancer in and they're doing all sorts of leaps or spins or whatever and it' shard to capture. This is honestly typically more stressful on your strobes than on your cameras - you need mighty powerful strobes with fast refresh rates to capture more than - say - 1 photo per second without any strobe misfires.

And finally megapixels - not that you'll need them for 90% of use cases but here's a few where you do.
  • We love that photo, can we we get one printed to 8 foot tall? We want to hang it in our shop window.
  • I know a photog who specializes in child and animal photography. He always shoots wide & with a small aperture. As long as the kid is in a specific region of the studio, he knows they'll be in focus. Then he gets out from behind the camera and triggers the camera with a remote so he can interact with the kids. He always crops the frame afterwards & if parents want a close up of the face from a full body landscape orientation shot - he can give that to them.
  • You know that one photo you took of the back of the packaging accidentally as an outtake? Our lawyer is asking for that blown up to 8.5x11 and can you sign an affidavit that you took that photo, and on what date, and that you didn't edit the text?
--
"Wait let me comb my hair and put on a tie."
It Gets Nerdy: https://medium.com/ice-cream-geometry
Sometimes I take photos: https://www.instagram.com/sodiumstudio/
 
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I Actually mention Medium format is the way to Save Foveon sensor.
Except Sigma doesn't make any MF lenses. It seems like they would be stretching themselves too thin to launch yet another line of lenses when they already make their own SA and L mount lenses, Full Frame and APS-C lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and mirrorless, and m4/3 lenses.

Sigma seems to have pretty clearly planted their flag in the Full Frame sand as their flagship line of lenses (Art), and now bodies.
1000 usd for a SDQH is and was a real bargain. It could be 2500 quite easily.
It's a very limited use camera that not many people want. Basic economics.
Except Sigma doesn't make any MF lenses. It seems like they would be stretching themselves too thin to launch yet another line of lenses when they already make their own SA and L mount lenses, Full Frame and APS-C lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and mirrorless, and m4/3 lenses.

Sigma seems to have pretty clearly planted their flag in the Full Frame sand as their flagship line of lenses (Art), and now bodies.

Most of their art series lens could be turned in to MF lens. And Sooner or later they have to invest into MF. Studio photography is was and still where the money is and studio photography is where most of the shortcomings of Foveon sensor doesn't count. For a lens company there can be no stretch thin issue for more lens production its just money over time issue. Once you reach market saturation only way to increase lens sales is to go in to new market segments as their new mirror less lens segment implies.

It's a very limited use camera that not many people want. Basic economics.

Well if your statement correct than a Ferrari should be 1000 USD and a Toyota Corolla should be 3500 USD.

I am coming from age of DSLRs. The nearest experience you get to DSLR Dia-positive exprience is Foveon where you face the limitation of your camera to express your creativity. that was the Age of photography. Now its age of Photoshop. I greatly enjoy Foveon sensor end result where you mostly not need to do any correctional works. or if you fail you fail miserably so there is nothing to save.
You also don't need MF for studio work. You just need megapixels.
OK let me clarify my Statement about studio photography as in back in old days Studio photography meant Product photography and Fashion photography. The way you understand studio photography is what we considered as every neighborhood studio photography for family photo and l etc. I do agree that you don't need a MF for that as historically it was always under coverage by FF cameras and thats the way it is.

I totally disagree that megapixel is the solution to all problems. As such it will put all last decade 6 to 15 megapixel professional cameras meaningless where they provide no different result and provide recognition and awards for thr photographers who used it.

Yes I do enjoy my 42MP Sony A7R2 but it does not offer anything more for the core of my photography in creative sense that the ones I had before. Megapixel is a hype to sell more and more cameras and provide a legends to the cameras that cannot reach that place.

It doesn't mean I would not enjoy more megapixsel but I dont need it for my creativity. And what ever the case I don't thing I will buy a camera with more than 50mp as 90% of a time I cant find any justification from it rather than it will push the price of lower MP cameras to our reach.
You control the lighting so you can saturate the sensor as much as you want by just dialing the strobes a bit higher. You're typically not dealing with huge dynamic range as with landscapes.
Again I would have to disagree product and Fashion photography is about to catch the glamour not the detail. Where is it an interaction with the models and photographer, where models needs to move and know when to stop for His/Her pose and a time for the photographer to catch that holly moments. There comes not just satisfaction of end result there comes the moment of satisfaction of knowing you got it right there right on time and you know it is in the film or SD card without even looking at it.At least back in old days it was like that.

If megapixels is there to save the day it means as professionals or enthusiastic we loosing something not getting something.

I am believer of Foveon not for many reasons but It just reminds me those days where you need to be aware of the limitations rather than saving the day.
What you need is fast & accurate AF, megapixels and speed.
I just need to ask why. Are we or older generations shooting worse photos with primitive cameras back in the day. This is just a urban legend. I have no problem to catch ravens flying in the air with a pentax 300mm M42 lens attached to Sigma SDHQ. and enjoying more. Unfortunately today environment is more about end result than more of the process.
Despite what everyone says - even if you're shooting portraits of someone who's relatively still, you want to have faith in your autofocus system - you don't want to miss that one great shot of a genuine laugh (which often comes with a lot of motion) because your camera didn't AF properly.
As I said try to shoot without auto focus sometime you will feel more satisfied with the results than sharing the results. That is more fun and challenging where you need to focus in empty spot where at right time the face will be.
You want speed for those moments when something interesting happens - or that one time a year you get a dancer in and they're doing all sorts of leaps or spins or whatever and it' shard to capture. This is honestly typically more stressful on your strobes than on your cameras - you need mighty powerful strobes with fast refresh rates to capture more than - say - 1 photo per second without any strobe misfires.
Sorry but for sure opinions and personal understanding is different I just cant advice you. But stress is part of the fun not vice versa in my opinion.
And finally megapixels - not that you'll need them for 90% of use cases but here's a few where you do.
  • We love that photo, can we we get one printed to 8 foot tall? We want to hang it in our shop window.
  • I know a photog who specializes in child and animal photography. He always shoots wide & with a small aperture. As long as the kid is in a specific region of the studio, he knows they'll be in focus. Then he gets out from behind the camera and triggers the camera with a remote so he can interact with the kids. He always crops the frame afterwards & if parents want a close up of the face from a full body landscape orientation shot - he can give that to them.
  • You know that one photo you took of the back of the packaging accidentally as an outtake? Our lawyer is asking for that blown up to 8.5x11 and can you sign an affidavit that you took that photo, and on what date, and that you didn't edit the text?
If you want to print 8 foot tall photo be my guest but you will get better results with a MF camera with 20MP foveon sensor without any post processing than any FF 60MP monster.

I am not against cropping by any means commercial photography is not something I am interested although it was my family business. A commercial photographers has other limitations which I am not going to argue but its completely different story than what I am trying to explain myself.

Unfortunately we are living in a age where all your points are justified. Too many camera too many photographers and need for speed and MP and etc. This area might cover the 90% of the commercial photography realities but it is actually 10% of artistic photography reality.

I hope you do not find me too argumentative but but I do enjoy being argumentative ;)

Cheers
 

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