FP -> Foveon make your suggestions to Sigma here

No variable Analog Front End, please: A "good" idea that has Sigma never got to work as well as the ISO invariant sensors (Merrill and pre-SD15).

Hotshoe, please: Foveon loves light.

The fp design would otherwise be a nice starting point for a new dp series, and the existence of a 45mm f/2.8 is so tailor made for dp2 users that there must either be a dp2 or a small Foveon L-mount camera coming.
 
  • Mechanical Shutter
  • Hotshoe + PC-socket
  • Square design, heatsink and tripod sockets of the FP
Would be interesting to see a camera with dual battery setup. One in the body and one in the normal grip. Not talking about extra vertical grip. Doubt it is going to happen, but as most MILC cameras do struggle with battery life, it could be an option.
  • More dynamic range
  • 16 bit raw
I suspect this will be difficult (larger DR) due to physics given the design of the sensor. But perhaps they have come up with some clever ideas.
  • Faster AF
  • Big Touchscreen
3" is enough for me, why something bigger?
Yes, no video
I doubt this, but let's see
  • 4:3 Format
As an option? Does not make sense to not have 3:2 when the sensor is 3:2. I don't like 4:3, but nice to have option you can set like there already is in dp quattro. 16:9, 7:6, 1:1 etc... I miss 5:4 so hope they can add this.
  • Wifi tethering
Come on. wifi as well? are you going to get batteries from Chernobyl? Big screen, Foveon FF sensor, IBIS, wifi. I do not want to go back to the Merrill battery life...
  • Focus + exposure bracketing
Stacked focus would be nice.
Wi-fi does NOT draw a huge amount of power. If it did, my dad's tiny Nikon point-and-shoot camera would not have wi-fi. That battery in that thing is not much larger than a quater. Besides, you don't have to turn on wi-fi until you want to use it. If it's just not there, you don't even get that option. As far as the screen drawing power, a 3.5" OLED screen probably draws less power than the screen on the DP Merrills.

I don't like the 4:3 format as much as 3:2. That said, it is a common format (medium format cameras and the m4/3 cameras all use it), and for portraits I think it's a better format than 3:2, which looks too narrow in portrait format most of the time. Of course they already include 4:3 format as an option, and I doubt they would make a camera that doesn't have that format as an option. 4:5 is something that should be included in every camera. It's still a common format for printing (8x10 and 16x20), so why not include it as a shooting format? I think it's silly that they included 21:9, but not 5:4 in my SD Quattro H. I know they can't include every format, but 4x5 is such a common format and 21:9 is such an uncommon format that it just didn't make sense to me. In the menu system it's not like one extra format would take a lot of extra room. On the quick-access screen there would be seven formats to choose from instead of six, and there's plenty of room there to add the extra format. In fact, they could add two or three more formats, and why not?
 
They should have released a FP Monochrome version.
That would be interesting, and they could probably do it now, quite easily, and astro-photographers might like it a lot.
 
Former DP2M owner here. If the new Foveon has the same issues as the Merrills, I'm out. (weird color and blotches in less than good light, bad at not-that-high ISO, etc)

I don't expect this to be a sports camera so I'm not needing competitive subject tracking AF, or high FPS. But it would be nice if the camera could do street and travel (read: low/imperfect light) in addition to landscape.

One thing that I think is fairly critical these days: WiFi. For on-the-spot sharing (and remote control) via smartphone. Coupled with good in-camera raw processing, or a raw processing smartphone app.

The only other thing I would want is a tilt-screen for waist level shooting. Would be a huge plus, allowing a whole other way of shooting.
 
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The fp is small enough that DPs aren't needed. DPs were never pocketable anyway, so why buy the sensor more than once?

DPs with zooms? I don't think you understand.

Yes on the tilt screen.
 
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They should have released a FP Monochrome version.
OK but this thread is about Foveon. No need for Foveon for monochrome.
 
I think Sigma is in a crossroad and so we are.

Up to now Sigma tried to create a Legacy with Foveon sensor and tried to achieve niche market segment position which Foveon sensors deserve. But I feel market realities and under dogging the Sigma system by big players and content creators bring a reality for all Foveon sensor users.

Even though I do not expect sigma kill Foveon sensor cameras but I am afraid it will become less and less common if specially Sigma succeeds by their Bayer sensor line of cameras and to reach to a level of recognition by main stream players and content creators.

The signs are there. For me DP series cameras were more innovative then FP and end results were very effective with the limitations of film area cameras and functionalities. But never get recognition by mainstream.

I should give my respect to Sigma for their long time devotion and persistence to be committed to foveon sensor cameras.

Yes I do expect Sigma to go FF with foveon cameras but I am afraid it will be expansive to most us to reach any more. as now they are creating a new line of camera sets probably Foveon sensor cameras will be way higher in food chain. For sure it deserves such a place but little depressing to feel it coming.

So my proposal for the future of Foveon and Sigma will be a more radical solution. To go medium format as soon as possible before this niche area completely occupied.

I feel that a not so high pixel resolution medium format Foveon sensor is the future for Sigma. Where foveon can benefit from large pixels to gather enough information without too much noise. Where it might attract the Studio shooters with Flash and studio lighting environment where the noise problem of the Foveon sensor becomes less of a issue. Where Sigma can create excellent medium format lenses to reach even larger and rich professional photographers to provide art series lens to the most of the medium format cameras available in market.

I think such camera if succeeds can secure the life of Foveon sensor for us. As I don't see a bright future for FF foveon sensor where it is very easy for mega brands to out maneuver Sigma.

Only commercial success could come to Foveon if we ever see a Leica or Panasonic camera with Foveon sensor. I pray that the real agenda of L-Mount alliance is to create Foeveon sensor camera over the board.

which might provide over the long run excellent well priced Foveon sensor cameras and finally people realizing the limitations of Bayer sensor as a problem.

I would have to state that as my gear list suggest many time over I preferred Sigma cameras over Bayer sensor as a loyal brand user. But finally I had to settle with Sony A7R2 as I started night time-lapse photography.
I agree. I think a medium format fpm is the future for Foveon, but I think Sigma should make a pair of full-frame Foveon cameras first, and I think they should eventually make a higher resolution full-frame Foveon camera too. I think 20 MP per layer is nice, but I think 50% more pixels would be nicer (because it would offer 60 MP equivalent, rather than 40 MP equivalent). Eventually I'd like to see a full-frame Quattro, but a 33mm x 44mm Foveon sensor in a larger fp body would make sense to me. They'd have to make a line of five or six lenses to go with it in the beginning, and they could reverse engineer the Fuji GFX mount to offer those same lenses to Fuji medium format users too. A pair of adapters to use SA-mount lenses and Canon lenses on the medium format camera might make sense too. After-all, there is a Canon to GFX adapter, and the Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art image circle covers the GFX 50s sensor. Having all functions, such as aperture control and auto-focus on a medium format camera with the whole line of Sigma SA mount lenses would be really nice (not to mention all the Canon lenses).

Now if the medium format sensor has the same density as the new 20 MP per layer full-frame sensor, imagine how much resolution that would be?!? Already the Fuji GFX 100 beats it, but the image quality just doesn't match what a Foveon sensor would offer at ISO 100, in my opinion. If Sigma could do this over the next year, it would be very timely. I doubt they're going to develop a new sensor and camera in just one year though. They seem to be getting faster, but I doubt they've become THAT fast. If they wait too long, I think it will be like today in full-frame. There just won't be enough difference between Fovon and CFA sensors to matter, and the disadvantages of the Fovon will dominate the conversation, causing very little uptake of the Fovon sensors/cameras.
 
FF Foveon fp- keep the modularity, possibly design a EVF clip on, although the slide in viewfinder is fine for me.

FF Foveon DP series please SIGMA, especially the DP0- keep the modularity and allow for the same viewfinder on all bodies.
So you want a set of little, fixed-lens fp bodies, with the accessories made for the fp available, but you want them to add a plug on the top of the camera for an EVF that will show what the rear screen shows, when plugged in, right? That is something I'd like to see myself. I think it makes a lot of sense. It could make the "package" even smaller and lighter than the current fp, because it would eliminate the heavy metal mount between the lenses and body of the camera.
I think with this level of modularity, you could even see a small shift/ tilt adaptor to allow for wide angle/ close up corrections and distortions for the fp.
Yes, a tilt-shift adapter for L mount would be nice.
At this point, and I hope I'm wrong, the modularity and diminutive size of the fp in either Foveon or Bayer incarnations, seems to indicate, with the appropriate lens releases, that a DP series isn't on the cards.
I agree, but maybe they plan to sell a full-frame DP series anyway, if there's enough interest in such a thing. Obviously they can make a very small full-frame camera. They've proved that now.
 
The fp is small enough that DPs aren't needed. DPs were never pocketable anyway, so why buy the sensor more than once?
Because Sigma may want to *sell* the sensor more than once in order to spread the fixed cost of R&D involved - resulting in a lower price per camera.

A Foveon fp would also be a bit bigger to allow space for a shutter mechanism. That's not an issue for a dp with leaf shutter.
 
Former DP2M owner here. If the new Foveon has the same issues as the Merrills, I'm out. (weird color and blotches in less than good light, bad at not-that-high ISO, etc)
I think the whole point of the full-frame Foveon is to avoid those color blotches. I'm sure there's a way for them to do it, so that blotching is non-existent. BTW, the blotching was not there, when I recently processed a Foveon image from a Merrill by compositing the three raw layers that had been exported from a raw image by Ted, using RAWdigger, so the blotching is related to the processing of the images. I'm SURE that Sigma can get a handle on that. They just need to have the desire to fix the problem. I'm actually really surprised they haven't already done so.
I don't expect this to be a sports camera so I'm not needing competitive subject tracking AF, or high FPS. But it would be nice if the camera could do street and travel (read: low/imperfect light) in addition to landscape.

One thing that I think is fairly critical these days: WiFi. For on-the-spot sharing (and remote control) via smartphone. Coupled with good in-camera raw processing, or a raw processing smartphone app.
Yeah, a professional level camera these days with no wi-fi just doesn't make sense to me . . . and it needs to be good, fast wi-fi, and include full wi-fi functionality, with small, compressed, previews of the photos sent immediately, rather than forcing users to wait for the full-size jpeg to come through. I would normally think that's a given, but you never know.
The only other thing I would want is a tilt-screen for waist level shooting. Would be a huge plus, allowing a whole other way of shooting.
+1 to the tilt screen.

I think Sigma will add that feature and some point, so why not now, on a bigger camera than the fp? I really think they might make a Foveon fp and a larger camera with viewfinder too.
 
The fp is small enough that DPs aren't needed. DPs were never pocketable anyway, so why buy the sensor more than once?
Because Sigma may want to *sell* the sensor more than once in order to spread the fixed cost of R&D involved - resulting in a lower price per camera.

A Foveon fp would also be a bit bigger to allow space for a shutter mechanism. That's not an issue for a dp with leaf shutter.
+1

Yes, and this could be why Sigma might actually make an fp with fixed lens (in other words a new DP), which has a leaf shutter in it. That would mean they would not have to change the body, but just eliminate the heavy, expensive mount, and put a leaf shutter in the 45mm f2.8 lens. Maybe the release of the fp is all about showing what the coming full-frame dp will be like.

;)

Like I said in another post though, I think it's genius to introduce the fp with the mount options. It will become a camera with an ecosystem, and over the next year or two a lot of third-party manufacturers will develop accessories for the fp, and if Sigma does make a series of dp cameras based on the fp body, those accessories with fit the dp series cameras too. I think that's awesome! Even if the fp doesn't become a popular camera and there are not a lot of third-party manufacturers making accessories for it, Sigma has made some accessories for it, and those same accessories will work on the dp series cameras, if they make a dp series based on the fp body, and that's nice. How many grips did Sigma make for the DP2 Merrill?

--
Scott Barton Kennelly
http://www.bigprintphotos.com
 
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I think Sigma is in a crossroad and so we are.

Up to now Sigma tried to create a Legacy with Foveon sensor and tried to achieve niche market segment position which Foveon sensors deserve. But I feel market realities and under dogging the Sigma system by big players and content creators bring a reality for all Foveon sensor users.

Even though I do not expect sigma kill Foveon sensor cameras but I am afraid it will become less and less common if specially Sigma succeeds by their Bayer sensor line of cameras and to reach to a level of recognition by main stream players and content creators.

The signs are there. For me DP series cameras were more innovative then FP and end results were very effective with the limitations of film area cameras and functionalities. But never get recognition by mainstream.

I should give my respect to Sigma for their long time devotion and persistence to be committed to foveon sensor cameras.

Yes I do expect Sigma to go FF with foveon cameras but I am afraid it will be expansive to most us to reach any more. as now they are creating a new line of camera sets probably Foveon sensor cameras will be way higher in food chain. For sure it deserves such a place but little depressing to feel it coming.

So my proposal for the future of Foveon and Sigma will be a more radical solution. To go medium format as soon as possible before this niche area completely occupied.
Interesting proposal.

I don't think it's wise for Sigma to make such a move though.

Sigma has limited resources & must decide where to direct them.

They just joined the L-Mount alliance and will be making lenses for it & for Sony... and maybe Canon and Nikon mirrorless. The fixed R&D and machining costs can be spread across multiple lens mounts.

To introduce a medium format camera, they will have to develop a full line of medium format lenses.

So they'd be taking a camera that was already a niche camera - Foveon - and making it even more niche (medium format).

I actually quite like they idea of a "dp" series medium format Foveon - give me a wide aperture portrait appropriate prime and I will 100% buy it. Other people will buy wide angle versions for landscape.

But an interchangeable lens medium format camera.... I just don't see it being practical for Sigma.

For Fuji it was a smart move - leapfrog the Canon, Sony and Nikon full frame mirrorless brands & own a niche. But even they were conservative when it came to the sensor - Bayer not X-Trans.

The cameras and lenses are expensive - and likely because they know they won't sell in huge numbers, so they have to amortize the costs across fewer users.

So a medium format Foveon would be expensive - few people would buy it, the lenses would be expensive. And all of that goes against Sigma's core philosophy of producing high quality, reasonably priced equipment.

Their stated goal with Foveon has always been "medium format quality". Funny now that there's a medium format camera that's getting a lot of buzz we're all wondering if it's even 36+megapixel "full frame" quality.
I feel that a not so high pixel resolution medium format Foveon sensor is the future for Sigma. Where foveon can benefit from large pixels to gather enough information without too much noise. Where it might attract the Studio shooters with Flash and studio lighting environment where the noise problem of the Foveon sensor becomes less of a issue. Where Sigma can create excellent medium format lenses to reach even larger and rich professional photographers to provide art series lens to the most of the medium format cameras available in market.

I think such camera if succeeds can secure the life of Foveon sensor for us. As I don't see a bright future for FF foveon sensor where it is very easy for mega brands to out maneuver Sigma.

Only commercial success could come to Foveon if we ever see a Leica or Panasonic camera with Foveon sensor. I pray that the real agenda of L-Mount alliance is to create Foeveon sensor camera over the board.

which might provide over the long run excellent well priced Foveon sensor cameras and finally people realizing the limitations of Bayer sensor as a problem.

I would have to state that as my gear list suggest many time over I preferred Sigma cameras over Bayer sensor as a loyal brand user. But finally I had to settle with Sony A7R2 as I started night time-lapse photography.
You are most correct with limited resources that Sigma has but I still feel in the long run this might be the only way to keep foveon sensor alive unless they start to provide foveon sensor to different camera manufacturers.

I would hope somewhere in Sigma think tank there is a sketch or feasibility study for medium format. As current trend is bigger is better for camera.
Are you saying that there is a waning interest in Foveon now that there are 40+ megapixel cameras on the market?
 
The fp is small enough that DPs aren't needed. DPs were never pocketable anyway, so why buy the sensor more than once?
Because Sigma may want to *sell* the sensor more than once in order to spread the fixed cost of R&D involved - resulting in a lower price per camera.
Relying on irrational buyers doesn't seem like a good business model. But I guess if it doesn't cost them much to do so then why not. But I would think it would?
A Foveon fp would also be a bit bigger to allow space for a shutter mechanism. That's not an issue for a dp with leaf shutter.
I don't think it would be significantly bigger.
 
Former DP2M owner here. If the new Foveon has the same issues as the Merrills, I'm out. (weird color and blotches in less than good light, bad at not-that-high ISO, etc)
I think the whole point of the full-frame Foveon is to avoid those color blotches. I'm sure there's a way for them to do it, so that blotching is non-existent. BTW, the blotching was not there, when I recently processed a Foveon image from a Merrill by compositing the three raw layers that had been exported from a raw image by Ted, using RAWdigger, so the blotching is related to the processing of the images. I'm SURE that Sigma can get a handle on that. They just need to have the desire to fix the problem. I'm actually really surprised they haven't already done so.
Very interesting. However your (encouraging) experiment shows that the blotching has nothing to do with APS-C vs FF.

I should have also added "quick operation". The DP2M was horribly slow.
 
I think this camera with an M series lens would be a great alternative for a lot of people. I would probably buy a Foveon one if it had.an EVF. if no EVF it would need the greatest autofocus system to make up for the inability to manually focus effectively.

Perhaps Sigma are heading towards computational photography and that will save the day.
 
I think it wad a very wise move to launch the fp. Now the demand for high ISO, fast frame rates, bells and whistles is met, and they can make the FFF a tool for the kind of photography where the 1:1:1 Foveon excels. A very basic kamera with superb image quality, solid AF performance and a very good EVF is what I hope for. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Modularity is at the heart of the fp and the antithesis of dp.

/end
 
The biggest positive for the FP for me is the size. That's really pretty much it.

However I suspect most would agree the size, very close to a dp merrill is a positive
No way on earth is the fp a guide to the forthcoming 35mm Foveon camera.
what to you think is unnecessary in the FP that can be eliminated in the Foveon and what do you think needs to be added?
Wrong question, given my comment above.
I'm not sure the apparently adopted from Panasonic focus system
That is news to me, where did you get that info? Personally I would have doubted it. Panasonic have a technical collaboration contract with Leica, but not with Sigma.
is any advantage and would like to see something better. I'd like to see a mechanical shutter as well.

I'd really like to see the body be in the same size range as the FP and hope with the new heat sink tech that will be possible.
What new heat-sink tech? Cameras have used heat-sinks since the year "bit". This is one more.

cheers
 
Modularity is at the heart of the fp and the antithesis of dp.

/end
Yes, interesting observation - but I can tell that the same company thought of both.

The "dp" was another kind of deconstruction.

I risked $800 on a dp3 Merrill because I couldn't see a way to buy my way into a sharp camera (sharp lens + no AA filter) at anywhere near that price point.

They deconstructed the market & reverse engineered the kind of camera I would want and gave me something nobody else was.
 
Former DP2M owner here. If the new Foveon has the same issues as the Merrills, I'm out. (weird color and blotches in less than good light, bad at not-that-high ISO, etc)
I think the whole point of the full-frame Foveon is to avoid those color blotches. I'm sure there's a way for them to do it, so that blotching is non-existent. BTW, the blotching was not there, when I recently processed a Foveon image from a Merrill by compositing the three raw layers that had been exported from a raw image by Ted, using RAWdigger, so the blotching is related to the processing of the images. I'm SURE that Sigma can get a handle on that. They just need to have the desire to fix the problem. I'm actually really surprised they haven't already done so.
Sigma's noise reduction algorithms introduce so many artifacts. I hope they dial back the noise reduction algorithms in the FFF.

I'm sure the "noise reduction + sharpening" is largely what's responsible for the Merrill "crunchy look."

Now with the L-Mount alliance cache, I wonder if they'll work with Adobe to allow it into their workflow... Or I guess they'll just offer a DNG RAW file again.
I don't expect this to be a sports camera so I'm not needing competitive subject tracking AF, or high FPS. But it would be nice if the camera could do street and travel (read: low/imperfect light) in addition to landscape.

One thing that I think is fairly critical these days: WiFi. For on-the-spot sharing (and remote control) via smartphone. Coupled with good in-camera raw processing, or a raw processing smartphone app.
Yeah, a professional level camera these days with no wi-fi just doesn't make sense to me . . . and it needs to be good, fast wi-fi, and include full wi-fi functionality, with small, compressed, previews of the photos sent immediately, rather than forcing users to wait for the full-size jpeg to come through. I would normally think that's a given, but you never know.
The only other thing I would want is a tilt-screen for waist level shooting. Would be a huge plus, allowing a whole other way of shooting.
+1 to the tilt screen.

I think Sigma will add that feature and some point, so why not now, on a bigger camera than the fp? I really think they might make a Foveon fp and a larger camera with viewfinder too.
 

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