Sigma fp announced

furtle · Jul 11, 2019

I find the DP and dp cameras fine without an EVF because their auto focus is ok. I use the smallests centre spot I can set, aim, focus and hope for the best. It's normally very accurate for static scenes, But manually focusing using the back screen is a waste of time. Bright light on the screen makes life tricky. The sd Quattro manually focuses very well using the EVF but I would like some 'strength' adjustment to the peaking delivery.

If my memory isn't failing me, the Sigma boss did say in one of his speaches that a Bayer sensor is not ruled out. So, this camera is not a massive surprise.

furtle · Jul 11, 2019

John Gellings said:
mikeodial said:

I had a DP2M, which I loved except for the lack of an EVF.

Click to expand...

I had the DP2M too and I hated not being able to use LR, waiting 8 seconds for the camera to write to card, and the short battery life. I'm thinking this camera has taken care of 2 out of 3 of my concerns... not sure about battery life though.

Also, I have new concerns... like rolling shutter and price.

Use Sigma SPP to make a TIFF, then use LR. If your'e not processing 100's of pics, the process is very acceptable. The DP battery life is poor but they are very small batteries (that fit the Ricoh GR) and just keep a few in your pocket.

The dp Q battery life is much better and the write times are faster. Also, you get to enjoy Super Fine Detail mode.

John Gellings · Jul 11, 2019

furtle said:
John Gellings said:

mikeodial said:

I had a DP2M, which I loved except for the lack of an EVF.

Click to expand...

I had the DP2M too and I hated not being able to use LR, waiting 8 seconds for the camera to write to card, and the short battery life. I'm thinking this camera has taken care of 2 out of 3 of my concerns... not sure about battery life though.

Also, I have new concerns... like rolling shutter and price.

Click to expand...

Use Sigma SPP to make a TIFF, then use LR. If your'e not processing 100's of pics, the process is very acceptable.

I did this but ultimately it wasn’t worth it to me.

furtle said:
The DP battery life is poor but they are very small batteries (that fit the Ricoh GR) and just keep a few in your pocket.

Did this too

furtle said:
The dp Q battery life is much better and the write times are faster. Also, you get to enjoy Super Fine Detail mode.

Tried it but liked the Merrill better.

saltydogstudios · Jul 11, 2019

ChristianHass said:
saltydogstudios said:

My questions are

AA filter or not? - Probably yes, moire in Cinema would be hard to get rid of, but maybe the pixel binning required for cinema would make it less of a issue? As mentioned before, only Leica seems to make 24 megapixel sensors without an AA filter.

Click to expand...

Somewhere it said AA less, been reading a lot of different sites so I don't remember where.

ChristianHass said:

Electronic Shutter only - so flash sync at any speed?

How fast is the shutter readout - can it be used for action/motion stills with minimal rolling shutter issues? Or it will it not be useful for action oriented stills because of rolling shutter issues?

Click to expand...

The Sony A9 sensor is apparently more or less free of rolling shutter and has a read-out speed of around 1/160s. That would be very nice, but probably also quite expensive.

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/how-fast-is-the-sony-a9-electronic-shutter/

Interesting. It looks like it will have a relatively fast readout - the "two exposures HDR video mode" implies e.g. two 1/60 sec exposures in 1/30 sec time.

ChromeLight · Jul 11, 2019

furtle said:
I find the DP and dp cameras fine without an EVF because their auto focus is ok. I use the smallests centre spot I can set, aim, focus and hope for the best. It's normally very accurate for static scenes, But manually focusing using the back screen is a waste of time. Bright light on the screen makes life tricky. The sd Quattro manually focuses very well using the EVF but I would like some 'strength' adjustment to the peaking delivery.

If my memory isn't failing me, the Sigma boss did say in one of his speaches that a Bayer sensor is not ruled out. So, this camera is not a massive surprise.

I disagree. My DP1M is useless in bright sunlight. The Foveon FF sure better have an EVF option. If not, no sale.

mikeodial · Jul 11, 2019

ChromeLight said:
furtle said:

I find the DP and dp cameras fine without an EVF because their auto focus is ok. I use the smallests centre spot I can set, aim, focus and hope for the best. It's normally very accurate for static scenes, But manually focusing using the back screen is a waste of time. Bright light on the screen makes life tricky. The sd Quattro manually focuses very well using the EVF but I would like some 'strength' adjustment to the peaking delivery.

If my memory isn't failing me, the Sigma boss did say in one of his speaches that a Bayer sensor is not ruled out. So, this camera is not a massive surprise.

Click to expand...

I disagree. My DP1M is useless in bright sunlight. The Foveon FF sure better have an EVF option. If not, no sale.

I had the same problem with my DP2M and the only way around it was to buy a hood style viewer. Then the camera starts to look like a jury rigged hack from a cheap Men in Black send-up. It was a total pain, and took all the fun of having the camera be so nice and small.

I still Look back on some fo the DP2M pics and have sellers remorse, but it was a PITA to use for a lot of carry round applications.

saltydogstudios · Jul 11, 2019

mikeodial said:
ChromeLight said:

furtle said:

I find the DP and dp cameras fine without an EVF because their auto focus is ok. I use the smallests centre spot I can set, aim, focus and hope for the best. It's normally very accurate for static scenes, But manually focusing using the back screen is a waste of time. Bright light on the screen makes life tricky. The sd Quattro manually focuses very well using the EVF but I would like some 'strength' adjustment to the peaking delivery.

If my memory isn't failing me, the Sigma boss did say in one of his speaches that a Bayer sensor is not ruled out. So, this camera is not a massive surprise.

Click to expand...

I disagree. My DP1M is useless in bright sunlight. The Foveon FF sure better have an EVF option. If not, no sale.

Click to expand...

I had the same problem with my DP2M and the only way around it was to buy a hood style viewer. Then the camera starts to look like a jury rigged hack from a cheap Men in Black send-up. It was a total pain, and took all the fun of having the camera be so nice and small.

I still Look back on some fo the DP2M pics and have sellers remorse, but it was a PITA to use for a lot of carry round applications.

I did the same.

I found a hood that worked & drilled 4 holes into it, into which I put black bungee cables. The bungee cables keep it on the camera nicely & it doesn't look too unprofessional - it actually starts to look more serious and definitely not like an SLR.

Note the strap placement too - I tend to like wrist straps and even neck straps I'll often just mount on the right side. If the strap was across both lugs, this setup couldn't be easily put on & off.

It's covering the mode dial in the picture, but it can easily be moved a bit to the side to access it & could probably just as easily not end up in a position with the mode dial covered.

This particular hood has two modes - a magnifier (the eye cup rotates) and it flips up to act just as a hood. I usually used it with the eye cup & flipped it up to review photos with someone.

DP3M with hood.

--
"Wait let me comb my hair and put on a tie."
It Gets Nerdy: https://medium.com/ice-cream-geometry
Sometimes I take photos: https://www.instagram.com/sodiumstudio/

SigmaChrome · Jul 11, 2019

Tom Schum said:
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9...-compact-full-frame-l-mount-mirrorless-camera

Interesting introduction. It might be physically ready for a FF foveon, including the necessary heat sink and 8.5 WH battery. Especially nice is the "small and light" emphasis, at least for me.

I guess the FF Foveon might need a focal plane shutter though, and of course it won't be fast enough for video. Best bet is to sell the Foveon version to still photographers who want no-compromise imaging, since the other L-mount bodies out there do phase autofocus and video.

No phase autofocus pixels, no video, body size about the same as the fp, and pure Foveon still imaging. To me, this sounds like something worth waiting for.

For me it's absolutely NOT worth waiting for if it doesn't have a good viewfinder. Frankly, I'm sick to death of Sigma cameras without integrated viewfinders. Who does it please? Not the user / customer!

Tom Schum said:
I'm not in a hurry. I have plenty of Fuji gear to tide me over, and it's all working great.

Same for me.

Sjak · Jul 11, 2019

mikeodial said:
I think a modern camera without an evf does not cut it for me. Perhaps I am just too old school.

Old school would be OVF

SiFu · Jul 11, 2019

Hello!

Really loving this, form factor and the specs! Can't wait to get one (is there a pre-order possibilty yet?!?). Should be a perfect supplement to my current and future Foveon cameras. "L-mount" for the win!

Best,

Alex

D Cox · Jul 12, 2019

Sjak said:
mikeodial said:

I think a modern camera without an evf does not cut it for me. Perhaps I am just too old school.

Click to expand...

Old school would be OVF

Which is fine on a fixed-lens camera. I used several fixed-lens film cameras with optical finders -- nice and bright.

Scottelly · Jul 12, 2019

joe173 said:
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:

I've not finished watching the video yet, but reading through the Concept website (that took me a few tries to load) it really stood out that this is a camera positioned where photography seems to be headed.

Basically, more and more video is working itself in some form even into still taking... the most interesting aspect of this camera to me is Cinemagraph support in-camera! That's a pretty cool idea. If you don't know what that is, Cinemagraphs freeze some part of the image as a still, but other parts of the image are video - It has a really pronounced effect of emphasizing a subject well.

Also pretty cool is HDR video, hope that is HDR 4K video.

I'd been mulling over getting something that did video well, including the Blackmagic compact cameras, or the Panasonic S1R. It will be really, really interesting to see how the new Sigma camera stacks up to larger video cameras.

It is too bad this doesn't use a Foveon sensor, but with all of the emphasis on video I can understand why.

Also makes for fantastic use of the L-Mount. I guess this kind of answers the question if there will be FF DP cameras, since this basically is a radical evolution of a DP camera concept...

Click to expand...

With the three layers of data, I really think that sensor captures too much data for video. Video streams are huge enough as it is, imagine a 1-1-1 with all that data. I don't think processors will be able to handle it--not in a long time--or ever. There is a limit to how much data can be captured and processed owing to heat, battery life, etc. with these silicon based chips.

Joe, from the experiment that I did recently, I don't know why there is so much processing necessary to make Foveon-based images. Consequently, I think they could easily create full-color video from the sensor. The big question is whether they've made a sensor faste enough to produce enough images per second to make a reasonable movie. The frame rate of the DP Merrill cameras was apparently not fast enough to make decent movies. I'd think by now, about ten years later, they should be able to make 4Kp30 movies or at least 4Kp24 movies from a similar (but larger) sensor.

Tom Schum · Jul 12, 2019

SiFu said:
Hello!

Really loving this, form factor and the specs! Can't wait to get one (is there a pre-order possibilty yet?!?). Should be a perfect supplement to my current and future Foveon cameras. "L-mount" for the win!

Best,

Alex

B&H sent out an email about the three new lenses, but nothing on the fp.

maple · Jul 12, 2019

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
Also makes for fantastic use of the L-Mount. I guess this kind of answers the question if there will be FF DP cameras, since this basically is a radical evolution of a DP camera concept...

That's how I see it too. As I posted earlier today in another thread, replace the sensor with a FF Foveon, it's DP in form and in essence, except that you can swap lenses to make it a DP model of your choice depending on the shoot. To use it with a larger lens, you could get a screwed-on grip for better handling. You could add an EVF module to your system for shooting in bright day light. Or you could strip it down to bare minimum and bring it along with just a couple of compact primes to travel light and hike. What a flexible system to have.

Shawn67 · Jul 12, 2019

ChromeLight said:
furtle said:

I find the DP and dp cameras fine without an EVF because their auto focus is ok. I use the smallests centre spot I can set, aim, focus and hope for the best. It's normally very accurate for static scenes, But manually focusing using the back screen is a waste of time. Bright light on the screen makes life tricky. The sd Quattro manually focuses very well using the EVF but I would like some 'strength' adjustment to the peaking delivery.

If my memory isn't failing me, the Sigma boss did say in one of his speaches that a Bayer sensor is not ruled out. So, this camera is not a massive surprise.

Click to expand...

I disagree. My DP1M is useless in bright sunlight. The Foveon FF sure better have an EVF option. If not, no sale.

Use a 28mm OVF on the DP1M. OVF's take a little to get used to at first but become second nature pretty easy.

Or totally geek out and get a Vufine.

Shawn

mikeodial · Jul 12, 2019

Shawn67 said:
ChromeLight said:

furtle said:

I find the DP and dp cameras fine without an EVF because their auto focus is ok. I use the smallests centre spot I can set, aim, focus and hope for the best. It's normally very accurate for static scenes, But manually focusing using the back screen is a waste of time. Bright light on the screen makes life tricky. The sd Quattro manually focuses very well using the EVF but I would like some 'strength' adjustment to the peaking delivery.

If my memory isn't failing me, the Sigma boss did say in one of his speaches that a Bayer sensor is not ruled out. So, this camera is not a massive surprise.

Click to expand...

I disagree. My DP1M is useless in bright sunlight. The Foveon FF sure better have an EVF option. If not, no sale.

Click to expand...

Use a 28mm OVF on the DP1M. OVF's take a little to get used to at first but become second nature pretty easy.

Or totally geek out and get a Vufine.

Shawn

Maybe the foveon version will have an EVF or an add on one. Trying to focus manually without a good EVF is going to be an issue for many.

A foveon version, with EVF and an L to M mount will open up a whole new world for lightweight, high quality cameras.

Probably asking for too much here.

The camera would be great competition as is, to the Leica CL as it is both FF and small, but it needs an EVF for the non-automatic types (like me) to buy into this.

joe173 · Jul 12, 2019

SiFu said:
Hello!

Really loving this, form factor and the specs! Can't wait to get one (is there a pre-order possibilty yet?!?). Should be a perfect supplement to my current and future Foveon cameras. "L-mount" for the win!

Best,

Alex

I plan to get the fp camera and also the full frame camera in 2020. I want to support Sigma and the best way to do that is to buy their products. Will it have issues and problems? Sure. I expect so, but these camera systems come with a learning curve for everyone and will improve over time.

joe173 · Jul 12, 2019

Scottelly said:
joe173 said:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:

I've not finished watching the video yet, but reading through the Concept website (that took me a few tries to load) it really stood out that this is a camera positioned where photography seems to be headed.

Basically, more and more video is working itself in some form even into still taking... the most interesting aspect of this camera to me is Cinemagraph support in-camera! That's a pretty cool idea. If you don't know what that is, Cinemagraphs freeze some part of the image as a still, but other parts of the image are video - It has a really pronounced effect of emphasizing a subject well.

Also pretty cool is HDR video, hope that is HDR 4K video.

I'd been mulling over getting something that did video well, including the Blackmagic compact cameras, or the Panasonic S1R. It will be really, really interesting to see how the new Sigma camera stacks up to larger video cameras.

It is too bad this doesn't use a Foveon sensor, but with all of the emphasis on video I can understand why.

Also makes for fantastic use of the L-Mount. I guess this kind of answers the question if there will be FF DP cameras, since this basically is a radical evolution of a DP camera concept...

Click to expand...

With the three layers of data, I really think that sensor captures too much data for video. Video streams are huge enough as it is, imagine a 1-1-1 with all that data. I don't think processors will be able to handle it--not in a long time--or ever. There is a limit to how much data can be captured and processed owing to heat, battery life, etc. with these silicon based chips.

Click to expand...

Joe, from the experiment that I did recently, I don't know why there is so much processing necessary to make Foveon-based images. Consequently, I think they could easily create full-color video from the sensor. The big question is whether they've made a sensor faste enough to produce enough images per second to make a reasonable movie. The frame rate of the DP Merrill cameras was apparently not fast enough to make decent movies. I'd think by now, about ten years later, they should be able to make 4Kp30 movies or at least 4Kp24 movies from a similar (but larger) sensor.

Your statement they could easily create video directly contradicts the CEO saying that video data stream is unmanageable with Foveon chips. (I will dig up the actual quote if you insist). I do know why there is so much processing. It is the same reason we had with piano keyboards and sound samples. Think about it. Bayer has a significant amount of interpolated data, basically just quick and dirty numbers from neighbor pixels filled in afterward--not real data. Sigma doesn't do that. Not only does it not do that, it has three 14-bit values encapsulated in three 16-bit words per pixel (three layers). So the amount of real data it is capturing and processing is much higher. (A sigma photo is much like the amount of data a pixel shift camera takes, which on other cameras is quite slow in the processing of it). That is the appeal of this technology. Understandable?

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner · Jul 12, 2019

SiFu said:
Hello!

Really loving this, form factor and the specs! Can't wait to get one (is there a pre-order possibilty yet?!?). Should be a perfect supplement to my current and future Foveon cameras. "L-mount" for the win!

Not exactly a pre-order, but you can register with BHPhoto to be notified when it's available:

Loading…

www.bhphotovideo.com

No prices listed yet.

Raist3d · Jul 12, 2019

until now

. I hope this is successful so they complement with more small primes. A small wide, and a small portrait and a semi small tele (that's 4).

Sigma fp announced

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