Time To Get Rid Of The F-Stop—What Do We Call The Replacement

I'm gonna take all my vintage lenses and very meticulously fill in the f-stop numbers engraved on the variable light entry hole thingy adjustment rings with black enamel paint, so as to permanently get rid of the f-stops.
Don't bother. When that happens your vintage lenses will be obsolete and useless.
I think progress has been made here...!!!
Yeah, I guess.... 😁

The light-admitting hole in the front of the lens will indeed cease to function, once f-stops are recognized as obsolete, irrelevant, outmoded and defunct...

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Thank You,
Chaplain Mark
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'Tis better to have a camera and not need one than to need a camera and not have one.
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In pursuit of photographic excellence.
 
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Keep it and teach people proper photography. I took a college course in photography and the instructor explain all the photography terms, settings of the camera, differences in film & DSLR cameras (Before Mirrorless came out) and gave us assignments that should her that we knew the principles of photography. I always hate when I hear someone say "Start off in auto mode and you will learn photography after you get use the camera". First they might as just use a smartphone camera and I would imagine 90 percent never get the camera off auto mode and the camera ends up on the shelf collecting dust.
 
Yeah I know there’s some redundancy to it but it has a ring to it.
Ah! It makes sense now. When photographing certain people I switch the camera to A-hole priority mode.

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Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
Or on instagram @therealellisv
 
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Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
I'd be good with swapping out "f stop" for a more descriptive term, something like "percentage of available light" (PAL); i.e. If you're shooting wide open, that would be "90%"; completely stopped down would be 5% (or whatever).

Another term that needs to change is describing lens in terms of millimeters. Better to just give them an angle of view.
 
Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
I'd be good with swapping out "f stop" for a more descriptive term, something like "percentage of available light" (PAL); i.e. If you're shooting wide open, that would be "90%"; completely stopped down would be 5% (or whatever).
Bad idea. People think more in terms of ratios than percentages.
Another term that needs to change is describing lens in terms of millimeters. Better to just give them an angle of view.
That means you have to relate that with both the lens AND sensor size, not just the lens.
 
When I saw the thread title I thought, Oh good, OP is gonna give us a better numbering system to describe the openings that's more intuitive and can be easier to understand for beginners.

I'm having trouble finding words to describe the disappointment

Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
 
[No message]
 
Great minds think alike! ;-)
 
Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
Sphincter...
 
Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
Yeah, what does it come to mind to call a RATIO value between a distance and the diameter?

100 mm / 25 mm is what?

200 mm / 62.5 mm is what?

What does a 100 mm have to do with 50 mm for framing?

How about what does a 25mm and 50 mm has to do with exposure?

Here is a lens:



806003773_1.jpg


You set the aperture and you set the shutter speed with that.

What is the exposure with that lens? A simple question, exposure of what?
 
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YOu can use the video term, T-Stop.
 
I'm going to take a photo

STOP

But I have to adjust this thing on the lens

STOP

It has a series of numbers

STOP

That I have to choose from

STOP

And depending on which one I choose

STOP

I can vary the amount of light entering the lens

STOP

And also vary the depth of field in the image

STOP!!!

.........

Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
 
Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
It had already been suggested that in order to make life easier for photographers, f/ stops and shutter speeds should be replaced by terms coming from natural world.

for example, aperture size can easily be replaced by fruit and vegetables domentions starting from a grape, going through peach, tomatoe, apple, orange melon and pumpkin. Shutter speed can become turtle, snail, bird, cat and dog and Chitta speeds. This will give a whole mew dimension to photography in a sense that exposure will be much more clear to understand. Also it will solve all the problems linked to equivallence, because everyone knows that apples and oranges cannot be confused.

Moti
 
Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
Nothing. It's the f/stop.

And it's good enough for an entire industry to be built around it.

--
Tom
https://tjimages.smugmug.com/
 
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Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
If you are asking a serious question, the logical replacements for f/stop and focal length would be aperture diameter and angle of view.

if two cameras are set for the same aperture diameter, angle of view, and shutter speed, they will produce similar results in terms of framing, depth of field, and visible image noise.

The key is to get away from worrying about trying to get the same light per unit area no matter what the sensor size. That's a hold over from the days of film. f/stops are very helpful for getting uniform light per unit area no matter what the sensor size, and independent of the results that will be produced.

====

If your question was no serious, then ignore this post.
 
I'm going to take a photo

STOP

But I have to adjust this thing on the lens

STOP

It has a series of numbers

STOP

That I have to choose from

STOP

And depending on which one I choose

STOP

I can vary the amount of light entering the lens

STOP

And also vary the depth of field in the image

STOP!!!

.........

Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Just adjust the DOF control

Call it the DOF

It all makes sense

Mark_A
 
Just adjust the DOF control

Call it the DOF

It all makes sense

Mark_A
You don't use aperture to adjust DOF, you use aperture to adjust exposure!

The stop and exposure time has been used from the start to adjust exposure of the light sensitive material. It was not until much later that it was found out the effect of the stop to DOF.

People who thinks that aperture is to control DOF is having same problem as people who think that "fast lens" means DOF control.

Aperture is to control the exposure time, how quickly you expose the light sensitive material to the light. "Speed" has nothing to do with DOF. Same way as DOF has nothing to do with exposure time. They are coupled, but separate things.

In the first camera obscuras there was a hole, adjusting the hole size you stop the light getting through. You don't "stop down" by going from 1/125 to 1/500. So if you say "Stop two stops down" you don't mean that. You don't either mean ISO 800 to ISO 200.

The "stop" is all about the aperture only, it is not about DOF like "DOF shallower by two stops" as the DOF is measured in the distance, not by the time nor sensitivity.

And adjusting DOF has multiple ways, distance related. Focusing further means you get deeper DOF, focusing closer you get shallower DOF. Changing focal length with same aperture means you change the DOF as well.

The F-stop is not "make background blurrier or sharper", it is "make image darker or brighter". The secondary effect depending other factors can be "make subject more in focus or less in focus", but that is again controlled with other effects as well.
 
Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
If you are asking a serious question, the logical replacements for f/stop and focal length would be aperture diameter and angle of view.
Knowing the focal length and your sensor size allows you to calculate quickly in head the answer for two questions:
  1. What is the required distance Z from camera to the subject to get the framing size of X * Y
  2. What is the required focal length to get the framing size of X * Y at distance Z.
Knowing the field of view is not helpful in that case. As it is much more difficult to translate example 73° x 53° to distances.

The same thing is otherwise easy.
  • You change from 50 mm to 100 mm but you want same framing, how much you need to change your camera distance from the subject?
  • You change from 39° x 27° to 20° x 13° but want the same framing, how much you need to change your camera distance from the subject?
Or how easy it goes this way,
  • Your current lens says 24° x 16° and you mount it to the APS-C body, now what is the new distance that you need to get the same framing with crop factor 1.5 change?
  • Your aperture is 12.5mm and you change your lens from 24° x 16° to lens with 73° x 53°, do you need to change your ISO and/or shutter speed from 200 and 1/60 to get same exposure?
if two cameras are set for the same aperture diameter, angle of view, and shutter speed, they will produce similar results in terms of framing, depth of field, and visible image noise.
And different exposure, a critical point of the photography and so on not sensible. And noise amount is not dependent from exposure as much as it is from the visual observation based the final image size, viewing distance, person eye sight and the subject even.
The key is to get away from worrying about trying to get the same light per unit area no matter what the sensor size.
The key is to forget the sensor areas affecting the exposure or DOF etc, and focus to photography (perspective, composition, framing, timing, time control, exposure).
That's a hold over from the days of film. f/stops are very helpful for getting uniform light per unit area no matter what the sensor size, and independent of the results that will be produced.
It is a ratio, it doesn't matter do you make a cake that is enough for 8 people or just two people, if the receipt says you need 1:4 ratio of chocolate and flour, then you use 1:4 ratio. If for two people serve it takes 200g flour and 50g chocolate, then for 8 people it is 800g and 200g. To make something bigger, doesn't mean that ratio changes suddenly to something else like 1:8.

Want to make a same quality print as it is in A2 size but in A0 size? You have the ratio, distance, size etc. But it is not about changing the exposure.
 
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Because so many atrocities and outrages against photography have been committed in its name, it is time to abandon the term “f/stop” and with it all the useless emotional and linguistic baggage it has accumulated in the last few years on these forums.

Now, with f/stop permanently in the rearview mirror, what would be a good name for the adjustable-sized hole in a lens that regulates the amount of energy passing through?
If you are asking a serious question, the logical replacements for f/stop and focal length would be aperture diameter and angle of view.
Knowing the focal length and your sensor size allows you to calculate quickly in head the answer for two questions:
  1. What is the required distance Z from camera to the subject to get the framing size of X * Y
  2. What is the required focal length to get the framing size of X * Y at distance Z.
Yes, if you know the focal length and sensor size, you can compute the angle of view. However, focal length and sensor sizes are implementation details. As a photographer, angle of view and aperture diameter are actually more important.

If we are going to start with the assumption that we want to continue to use conventions developed in the days of film, prior to the invention of computers, then f/stop and focal length is the answer.

if we are going to allow the computer in the digital camera to do some simple calculations, there is no reason why it can't display aperture diameter and angle of view.

As the camera knows the subject distance, it can also tell us the field of view (how wide it is at the subject) and the depth of field.
Knowing the field of view is not helpful in that case. As it is much more difficult to translate example 73° x 53° to distances.

The same thing is otherwise easy.
  • You change from 50 mm to 100 mm but you want same framing, how much you need to change your camera distance from the subject?
Yes, if you are going to use lenses labeled on focal length rather than angle of view, then it makes sense to think in focal lengths.

However, we are talking about what system would we use if we were starting from scratch. In that case, lenses would be labeled in angle of view. Yes, the angle of view changes with sensor size, but that's the same issue as "effective focal length".

Modern cameras contain very powerful computers. They really can compute and display angle of view.
  • You change from 39° x 27° to 20° x 13° but want the same framing, how much you need to change your camera distance from the subject?
Or how easy it goes this way,
  • Your current lens says 24° x 16° and you mount it to the APS-C body, now what is the new distance that you need to get the same framing with crop factor 1.5 change?
  • Your aperture is 12.5mm and you change your lens from 24° x 16° to lens with 73° x 53°, do you need to change your ISO and/or shutter speed from 200 and 1/60 to get same exposure?
if two cameras are set for the same aperture diameter, angle of view, and shutter speed, they will produce similar results in terms of framing, depth of field, and visible image noise.
And different exposure, a critical point of the photography and so on not sensible. And noise amount is not dependent from exposure as much as it is from the visual observation based the final image size, viewing distance, person eye sight and the subject even.
Of course exposure is important, but not in the same way it was in the days of film.

The response curve of film is "S" shaped. You really need to hit a certain point on the curve in order to get a high quality negative. That means that if you are shooting Tri-X, you need the same exposure per unit area whether you are shooting half frame 35mm, or 8x10 sheet film. Now the quality of the results from Tri-X vary with film size, but you have to live with that. The entire film workflow is built around hitting a small target range for your light per unit area on the film.

Digital sensors work very differently. There is a much wider latitude of exposures that will give you a good image. Put your camera in Auto-ISO mode, and you can vary the exposure by quite a few stops, and still get a great image.

You can argue that if the exposure is too low, the image looks noisy. However, the criteria for "too low" varies with sensor size. The exposure (light per unit area) that yields too low of an exposure for a 2X crop camera, may yield a very useable exposure on a full frame.

With digital, we don't need to build our workflow around light per unit area, it makes more sense to build it around total light captured. If the angle of view, aperture diameter, and shutter speeds are the same, we capture about the same total light, no matter what the sensor size.

With a modern car, I don't need to worry about what gear I am in, or the engine RPM. I can worry about what speed I want the car to go, and the car will figure out the implementation detail of gear ratio and engine RPM.

With a modern digital camera, I shouldn't have to worry about sensor size and ISO. Those are implementation details. If I know angle of view and aperture diameter, I don't need to know sensor size to know how the image will look.
The key is to get away from worrying about trying to get the same light per unit area no matter what the sensor size.
The key is to forget the sensor areas affecting the exposure or DOF etc, and focus to photography (perspective, composition, framing, timing, time control, exposure).
If you also want to think about overall image noise and depth of field, then angle of view and aperture diameter are important. Angle of view, it critical for framing and perspective.
That's a hold over from the days of film. f/stops are very helpful for getting uniform light per unit area no matter what the sensor size, and independent of the results that will be produced.
It is a ratio, it doesn't matter do you make a cake that is enough for 8 people or just two people, if the receipt says you need 1:4 ratio of chocolate and flour, then you use 1:4 ratio. If for two people serve it takes 200g flour and 50g chocolate, then for 8 people it is 800g and 200g. To make something bigger, doesn't mean that ratio changes suddenly to something else like 1:8.
I think a better analogy is that if the recipe calls for 8 cups of flour, it doesn't matter whether you fill a 2 cup container 4 times, or a 1/2 cup container 16 times. Those are implementation details. With a digital camera that's light per unit area and sensor total area. What we really care about is how much total flour was measured, or how much total light was captured. How it was sliced up is an implementation detail.

Want to make a same quality print as it is in A2 size but in A0 size? You have the ratio, distance, size etc. But it is not about changing the exposure.
Actually, the same exposure (light per unit area) might produce visibly different prints with different sensor sizes. A smaller sensor may produce a noticeable noisy print. A larger sensor may produce a creamy smooth noise free print. Now if the exposures (light per unit area) was different, but both sensors captured the same total light, then the prints will look very similar.
 

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