Super noisy images from G80 with lens on adapter

RitterFab · Jul 5, 2019

A smaller aperture significantly boosts the constrast with old lenses. You wrote it doesn't change the noise. I'd say your G80 sensor is gathering much less light than actually required.
It seems like the shutter speed is too high which results in massive underexposure.
Did you reproduce the shots with both of your cameras with the exact same settings (shutter, aperture and ISO without any exposure compensation) ?

Jakob Malm · Jul 5, 2019

Mark9473 wrote:

Mark9473 said:
Jakob Malm said:

Mark9473 said:

Jakob Malm said:

Three lenses were used with the same exposure (shutter, aperture, ISO).

Click to expand...

You appear to be underexposing, and more so with the older lenses. I know you said "same exposure" but the old glass could well have less light transmission.

Click to expand...

Sure, and as you will see in the original post, the images do not have 100% the same brightness. But I've also used these lenses on a GX7 and a GX8, and not experienced this effect. Ever.

I've now also tried with one more adapter and lens, and also the "native" (but without electrical contacts) Samyang 7.5 mm. Same noise.

Click to expand...

Show us a properly exposed image in normal light please.

I've taken hundreds of images with adapted lenses on my G80 and have never seen a difference in noise compared to native lenses.

I don't have access to daylight right now (and I really need to go to sleep now...), so these are under LED. I hope that is ok.

JPEG straight out of camera. ISO 1600

JPEG straight out of camera. ISO 400

Jakob Malm · Jul 5, 2019

RitterFab said:
A smaller aperture significantly boosts the constrast with old lenses. You wrote it doesn't change the noise. I'd say your G80 sensor is gathering much less light than actually required.
It seems like the shutter speed is too high which results in massive underexposure.
Did you reproduce the shots with both of your cameras with the exact same settings (shutter, aperture and ISO without any exposure compensation) ?

The following were taken with the exact same shutter speed (1/125 s), aperture (f/2.8) and ISO (3200). Both are JPEGs straight out of the cameras. I think you can guess which one is from the G80...

Jakob Malm · Jul 5, 2019

Thanks everyone for your interest and efforts in helping me with this. I will check in again tomorrow, after getting some well needed sleep...

alcelc · Jul 5, 2019

Jakob Malm said:
maltmoose said:

Suspect you are massively underexposing and boosting in post.

Reason for the under exposure likley to be your wrong settings as operating in manual, perhaps you have no live view for some reason?

Click to expand...

Not doing any adjustment in post, and JPEGs straight out of the camera have the same problems.

Three lenses were used with the same exposure (shutter, aperture, ISO). The native lens doesn't have the problem, the ones with adapters do.

You have eliminated part of the suspicion by yourself: "camera problem" because the native M43 lens did fine.

Therefore this is very likely down to the lens or adapter issue. It is hard to guess the culprit at this moment. When a lens does well on a camera, it might not be on another. I have a Fotga AF extension tube set. When stacked the 10mm and 16mm tubes on 45~200 mk-I on GX85, it worked fine. However, the same combo got Check Lens error code on GX1. Strange enough it did well if only 10mm or 16mm tube be used... The tube set works perfectly normal on other native lenses on GX1.

However this particular matter should be an IQ issue. I shall look at SOOC jpg that might eliminate any potential problem on RAW conversion. An improper RAW handling could get all sort of IQ issue. I also suggest you to test again using default jpg settings, e.g. NR=0 etc because I had seen enough that -5 NR, insufficient amount of light plus denoise in PP could result excessive and ugly noise effect.

Mark9473 · Jul 5, 2019

Jakob Malm said:
The following were taken with the exact same shutter speed (1/125 s), aperture (f/2.8) and ISO (3200). Both are JPEGs straight out of the cameras. I think you can guess which one is from the G80...

I'd say your G80 is defective, but I can't understand why it would work properly with a native lens in that case.

--
Mark

Strangefinder · Jul 5, 2019

Could it be that the light-meter is misreading through the adapted lenses?

Also the material of the adaptor or the mount - might it have traces of conductive metal somehow?

Alan_W1 · Jul 5, 2019

It does seem a bit odd!!

I have two thoughts;

1/ are you using the same sd card in both cameras {maybe a card issue if not}.

2/ there appears to be a vignette on all the images, apart from the ones taken with a native lens, which may point to the adapter [although the vignette is not perfectly round...so maybe that is not part of the issue]. examples below:

I have no solution, as I mainly use legacy lenses with a few different adapters, but have never noticed anything like this....although I never go over 1600iso

edit: just noticed the gx8 image does not have the vignette with the legacy lens, so that may rule out the adapter...assuming you were using the same one on each bodies.

That leaves the sd card as one possible culprit.

Jakob Malm · Jul 6, 2019

alcelc said:
Jakob Malm said:

maltmoose said:

Suspect you are massively underexposing and boosting in post.

Reason for the under exposure likley to be your wrong settings as operating in manual, perhaps you have no live view for some reason?

Click to expand...

Not doing any adjustment in post, and JPEGs straight out of the camera have the same problems.

Three lenses were used with the same exposure (shutter, aperture, ISO). The native lens doesn't have the problem, the ones with adapters do.

Click to expand...

You have eliminated part of the suspicion by yourself: "camera problem" because the native M43 lens did fine.

The adapters work just fine with my three other m43 bodies (GX7, GX8, EM5 mk I). And vice versa, all non-electronic lens setups "fail" on the G80.

alcelc said:
Therefore this is very likely down to the lens or adapter issue. It is hard to guess the culprit at this moment. When a lens does well on a camera, it might not be on another. I have a Fotga AF extension tube set. When stacked the 10mm and 16mm tubes on 45~200 mk-I on GX85, it worked fine. However, the same combo got Check Lens error code on GX1. Strange enough it did well if only 10mm or 16mm tube be used... The tube set works perfectly normal on other native lenses on GX1.

However this particular matter should be an IQ issue. I shall look at SOOC jpg that might eliminate any potential problem on RAW conversion. An improper RAW handling could get all sort of IQ issue. I also suggest you to test again using default jpg settings, e.g. NR=0 etc because I had seen enough that -5 NR, insufficient amount of light plus denoise in PP could result excessive and ugly noise effect.

All settings on the G80 are factory default. The RAW images have the problem without doing any post processing at all (I don't do any auto adjustment on import in Capture One Pro either).

maltmoose · Jul 6, 2019

Jakob Malm said:
RitterFab said:

A smaller aperture significantly boosts the constrast with old lenses. You wrote it doesn't change the noise. I'd say your G80 sensor is gathering much less light than actually required.
It seems like the shutter speed is too high which results in massive underexposure.
Did you reproduce the shots with both of your cameras with the exact same settings (shutter, aperture and ISO without any exposure compensation) ?

Click to expand...

The following were taken with the exact same shutter speed (1/125 s), aperture (f/2.8) and ISO (3200). Both are JPEGs straight out of the cameras. I think you can guess which one is from the G80...

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

We know the camera works with a native lens

We know the adapter and lens works on another camera

We know its not processing as using out of camera jpeg

We know its not the SD card as works with a native lens

We know the exposure settings are the same as per exif

Yet the adapter and lens do not work on the G80 and there are no electronic connections between the camera and adapter resulting in strange exposure..

Normally at this point i would conclude that its user error as we do not yet know otherwise...however.. if we assume he is correct (never assume)..

We are left with checking the latest firmware and do a full camera reset?

Furthermore it seems unlikely something happening with the connection between the adapter and the camera on the G80 only...i've never seen this or know how this is possible .. but would like to eliminate the adapter by using another brand even if it works on the G80.

Any ideas on how to eliminate user error

Jakob Malm · Jul 6, 2019

Mark9473 said:
Jakob Malm said:

The following were taken with the exact same shutter speed (1/125 s), aperture (f/2.8) and ISO (3200). Both are JPEGs straight out of the cameras. I think you can guess which one is from the G80...

Click to expand...

I'd say your G80 is defective, but I can't understand why it would work properly with a native lens in that case.

That is my conclusion too, and I just sent a message to the store from which I bought it (not in my city, unfortunately, so I will most likely have to send it back). My only guess, which I don't know at all if it's plausible or not, is that the body has a problem when the contacts are not, well, "contacted".

Jakob Malm · Jul 6, 2019

maltmoose said:
Jakob Malm said:

RitterFab said:

A smaller aperture significantly boosts the constrast with old lenses. You wrote it doesn't change the noise. I'd say your G80 sensor is gathering much less light than actually required.
It seems like the shutter speed is too high which results in massive underexposure.
Did you reproduce the shots with both of your cameras with the exact same settings (shutter, aperture and ISO without any exposure compensation) ?

Click to expand...

The following were taken with the exact same shutter speed (1/125 s), aperture (f/2.8) and ISO (3200). Both are JPEGs straight out of the cameras. I think you can guess which one is from the G80...

Click to expand...

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

We know the camera works with a native lens

agreed

maltmoose said:
We know the adapter and lens works on another camera

agreed

maltmoose said:
We know its not processing as using out of camera jpeg

agreed, and the in-camera processing is at default settings

maltmoose said:
We know its not the SD card as works with a native lens

agreed

maltmoose said:
We know the exposure settings are the same as per exif

agreed

maltmoose said:
Yet the adapter and lens do not work on the G80 and there are no electronic connections between the camera and adapter resulting in strange exposure..

Normally at this point i would conclude that its user error as we do not yet know otherwise...however.. if we assume he is correct (never assume)..

We are left with checking the latest firmware and do a full camera reset?

Body has latest firmware, and I did a reset back to factory settings yesterday in the middle of all my testing. No difference. Is there a "more full" camera reset I can do?

maltmoose said:
Furthermore it seems unlikely something happening with the connection between the adapter and the camera on the G80 only...i've never seen this or know how this is possible .. but would like to eliminate the adapter by using another brand even if it works on the G80.

I've used several different adapters, and also the non-electronic native Samyang 7.5 mm.

maltmoose said:
Any ideas on how to eliminate user error

This is the one that I would like to find, too, but I'm out of ideas. I've been shooting Lumix m43 since 2015, with native and legacy lenses , so the G80, although some things are different, is very familiar to me.

Jakob Malm · Jul 6, 2019

Alan_W1 said:
It does seem a bit odd!!

I have two thoughts;

1/ are you using the same sd card in both cameras {maybe a card issue if not}.

2/ there appears to be a vignette on all the images, apart from the ones taken with a native lens, which may point to the adapter [although the vignette is not perfectly round...so maybe that is not part of the issue]. examples below:

This "vignetting" is what first lead me to think of some electrostatic problem. It's quite irregular and seems to kind of "pull" from the edges of the sensor, rather than be something lens-induced. But as I wrote previously, it doesn't show up in live view, but both on stills and video recording.

Jakob Malm · Jul 6, 2019

I just changed batteries and now I'm getting "Lens attachment failed. Please make sure the lens is attached correctly." all the time, no matter what I do. I tested with several different native lenses. The battery is a genuine Panasonic battery from my GX8, fully charged.

I think something is terribly wrong with this camera.

Charging the battery that came with the G80 now, to see if that will work better.

Chris R-UK · Jul 6, 2019

Having just read the whole of this thread, I think that your next step probably has to be to return the camera. Every other possible cause seems to have already been discussed and eliminated.

--
Chris R

Jakob Malm · Jul 6, 2019

Chris R-UK said:
Having just read the whole of this thread, I think that your next step probably has to be to return the camera. Every other possible cause seems to have already been discussed and eliminated.

I've talked to the dealer, and will be returning it on Monday. Possibly to have it serviced by Panasonic, or just returned. This kind of puts me off this camera. We'll see...

Chris R-UK · Jul 6, 2019

Jakob Malm said:
Chris R-UK said:

Having just read the whole of this thread, I think that your next step probably has to be to return the camera. Every other possible cause seems to have already been discussed and eliminated.

Click to expand...

I've talked to the dealer, and will be returning it on Monday. Possibly to have it serviced by Panasonic, or just returned. This kind of puts me off this camera. We'll see...

Best of luck and please let us know what happens.

This has been an intriguing thread.

Jakob Malm · Aug 5, 2019

Chris R-UK said:
Jakob Malm said:

Chris R-UK said:

Having just read the whole of this thread, I think that your next step probably has to be to return the camera. Every other possible cause seems to have already been discussed and eliminated.

Click to expand...

I've talked to the dealer, and will be returning it on Monday. Possibly to have it serviced by Panasonic, or just returned. This kind of puts me off this camera. We'll see...

Click to expand...

Best of luck and please let us know what happens.

This has been an intriguing thread.

The dealer sent the camera to Panasonic Poland, where they replaced the lens block (I suppose that's the part that holds the lens, including the contacts...). The camera is now fully functioning, as far as I can tell.

Thanks for everyone's interest and support!

Chris R-UK · Aug 6, 2019

Jakob Malm said:
Chris R-UK said:

Jakob Malm said:

Chris R-UK said:

Having just read the whole of this thread, I think that your next step probably has to be to return the camera. Every other possible cause seems to have already been discussed and eliminated.

Click to expand...

I've talked to the dealer, and will be returning it on Monday. Possibly to have it serviced by Panasonic, or just returned. This kind of puts me off this camera. We'll see...

Click to expand...

Best of luck and please let us know what happens.

This has been an intriguing thread.

Click to expand...

The dealer sent the camera to Panasonic Poland, where they replaced the lens block (I suppose that's the part that holds the lens, including the contacts...). The camera is now fully functioning, as far as I can tell.

Thanks for everyone's interest and support!

Thanks for letting us know what caused the problem. It might help somebody else with the same problem who finds this thread in the future.

Super noisy images from G80 with lens on adapter

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