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Mirrorless ‘Why doesn’t everybody have one of these?’

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cdembrey

cdembrey

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Photojournalists with DSLR’s told to stop shooting at Democratic Convention. Mirrorless photographers OK.

At the Democratic convention the ratteling sound of DSLR’s forced NBC to have photojournalists stop shooting, execept one who was shooting with a Sony A9. New York Times photographer Doug Mills explains, “When I got there,” recalls Mills, “the woman who was from NBC said, ‘Hey, you can’t shoot.’ I explained to her my camera was mirrorless and she was like, ‘Why doesn’t everybody have one of these?’ So then I just kept shooting.”

“I had a great advantage,” says Mills.

Furthermore the article states, “Clackety camera mirrors commonly corrupt audio feeds, and incidents such as the one on Wednesday night should accelerate their extinction.”

via Washington Post

Giulio Sciorio posted this to Small Camera BIG PICTURE smallcamerabigpicture.com

And so it goes.
 
I spent most of last Saturday with 11 of the best war photographers in history. I would have enjoyed watching her tell Tim Pago he could not take pictures.

BAK
 
BAK said:
I spent most of last Saturday with 11 of the best war photographers in history. I would have enjoyed watching her tell Tim Pago he could not take pictures.
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Did you mean Tim Page?

BTW the PJs I know would have pulled out their Digital Leica, or iPhone and got the shot.
 
SaltyPeanut said:
Doesn't a D850 have a silent shutter as well?
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And how exactly is that going to help? The shutter is not the main issue here.

The well known (and heard) fact remains that those Canikons with their big mirror flapping about are very LOUD.
Worse still, all those Canikon-toting PJ lemmings are all rattling those loud things near the subject in rapid fire mode rather than in single shot mode all the bleeping time!

Which is distracting and extremely annoying, and often making it hard to hear what the person in the press conference is saying. I bet the sound engineers would be more than happy to see those rattlers go away.

In that sense I totally understand and support the notion that those Canikons with mirror flapping about could and should be banned from press conferences. There's no longer any technical imperative to have them there. Those shooters should also be taught some confidence lessons, and show them how to turn the camera in single shot mode. If they're good at their job, they will nail the shot with less frames, too.
 
Although there's another reason why the PJ's rattle on those serial shots all the time, and that's probably because their handlers are asking for it. Especially if the target is a politician and it's the election campaign season, regardless of one's bias.

That is to make sure they not only get the neutral 'standard' shot but also enough alternative shots for the usual compromised or less flattering shot for the politically purposeful releases. That's what the mainstream media is apparently paying for.

Anyway, its the middle of twenty bleeping nineteen already, and they could and should do all that with less noise.
 
cdembrey said:
Photojournalists with DSLR’s told to stop shooting at Democratic Convention. Mirrorless photographers OK.

At the Democratic convention the ratteling sound of DSLR’s forced NBC to have photojournalists stop shooting, execept one who was shooting with a Sony A9. New York Times photographer Doug Mills explains, “When I got there,” recalls Mills, “the woman who was from NBC said, ‘Hey, you can’t shoot.’ I explained to her my camera was mirrorless and she was like, ‘Why doesn’t everybody have one of these?’ So then I just kept shooting.”

“I had a great advantage,” says Mills.

Furthermore the article states, “Clackety camera mirrors commonly corrupt audio feeds, and incidents such as the one on Wednesday night should accelerate their extinction.”

via Washington Post

Giulio Sciorio posted this to Small Camera BIG PICTURE smallcamerabigpicture.com

And so it goes.
Click to expand...
"We will tolerate this for half a century or so but you better come up with a solution !"

Meanwhile nooone seems to be asking why it takes so many photographers to cover the same event.
 
eFilm said:
SaltyPeanut said:
Doesn't a D850 have a silent shutter as well?
Click to expand...
And how exactly is that going to help? The shutter is not the main issue here.

The well known (and heard) fact remains that those Canikons with their big mirror flapping about are very LOUD.
Worse still, all those Canikon-toting PJ lemmings are all rattling those loud things near the subject in rapid fire mode rather than in single shot mode all the bleeping time!

Which is distracting and extremely annoying, and often making it hard to hear what the person in the press conference is saying. I bet the sound engineers would be more than happy to see those rattlers go away.

In that sense I totally understand and support the notion that those Canikons with mirror flapping about could and should be banned from press conferences. There's no longer any technical imperative to have them there. Those shooters should also be taught some confidence lessons, and show them how to turn the camera in single shot mode. If they're good at their job, they will nail the shot with less frames, too.
Click to expand...
There is no mirror slap on the D850 in silent mode. The mirror is locked. The only thing I don't know, since I've never owned one, is if it uses a EFCS, which would still make a minor shutter sound, or a fully electronic shutter, which would be completely silent. Either way there's no mirror rattling going on.
 
In the old, old times when I was a newspaper photographer some events only allowed Leica rangefinder cameras -- which were near silent. No SLRs allowed. SLRs and DSLRs became tolerated at many events only because there was no practical alternative -- Leica rangefinders were limited to 90 or maybe 135mm lenses -- and event organizers wanted photo coverage.

DSLRs have gotten only slightly quieter in recent years, and with no need to change film photographers have taken to heavy use of continuous mode and "machine gun" shooting. Even I, a photographer, find it offensive to hear cameras rattling while I'm trying to listen to the speaker.

I'm sure that as more event organizers realize there are silent camera available they will begin to expect and demand them.

Gato
 
RE> Meanwhile nooone seems to be asking why it takes so many photographers to cover the same event. <

Photographers like to shoot their own pictures, instead of getting laid off by cheapskate publishers.

And there are a lot of media.

And many media want "their" politician in the picture along with the, in this case, Democratic big shots.

BAK
 
BAK said:
RE> Meanwhile nooone seems to be asking why it takes so many photographers to cover the same event. <

Photographers like to shoot their own pictures, instead of getting laid off by cheapskate publishers.
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That doesn't sound like something that stopped cheapskate publishers before.
BAK said:
And there are a lot of media.
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Likewise, if it was about that there would be one photographer per wire service or something and some licensing agreement.
BAK said:
And many media want "their" politician in the picture along with the, in this case, Democratic big shots.
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That makes more sense.
BAK said:
BAK
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SaltyPeanut said:
There is no mirror slap on the D850 in silent mode.
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That's not the issue here. No one is using a dSLR in live view mode and mirror locked up during those events for rather obvious reasons. It would defeat the purpose of having a dSLR in those venues in the first place. Which kinda is the point here.
Either way there's no mirror rattling going on. Yeah said:
DSLRs have gotten only slightly quieter in recent years,
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Some more than some others. I've used some rather gentle sounding dSLRs.
Member said:
and with no need to change film
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...Although those motor winders added a distinctive sound effect to the mix as well...
Member said:
photographers have taken to heavy use of continuous mode and "machine gun" shooting.
Click to expand...
Which to me sort of shows either lack of competence or confidence, mental laziness or perhaps all of them, and a part of it is probably about the aforementioned politically purposeful hunt for the "money shot."

Either way, it's very annoying, and they might as well be lazy, incompetent or politically purposeful with less noise. Or have their loud rattles banned. Especially now that even Canikon are finally offering quieter options.
Member said:
Even I, a photographer, find it offensive to hear cameras rattling while I'm trying to listen to the speaker.

I'm sure that as more event organizers realize there are silent camera available they will begin to expect and demand them.
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And not a moment too soon. DSLRs may still have their uses, just not in press conferences and other speaking venues. As they say, horses for courses.
[/QUOTE]
 
eFilm said:
SaltyPeanut said:
There is no mirror slap on the D850 in silent mode.
Click to expand...
That's not the issue here. No one is using a dSLR in live view mode and mirror locked up during those events for rather obvious reasons. It would defeat the purpose of having a dSLR in those venues in the first place. Which kinda is the point here.
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Fair enough. I'm not a pj and never used live view outside of static objects or landscapes when I had a dslr, but I hear wedding folks talk about using this d850 feature in church, so I assumed it was potentially capable of capturing people mostly standing still talking into a microphone or similar situations. Either way you really didn't have to be such a d*ck about it, I was merely commenting that at least one dslr out there has a silent shooting mode. I actually agree with the main argument on the noise.
eFilm said:
eFilm said:
Either way there's no mirror rattling going on.
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Yeah, right. Just listen to nearly any major press event. Good luck with trying to convince those Canikon shooters to use the silent mode and single shot mode. Not going to happen, unless you restrict their access to the venue with a decibel limit.
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They could just restrict to those with silent shooting modes. You never know what technology will bring tomorrow. I have a mirrorless and if I use the normal shutter it still makes noise, just not as much as a mirror slap. Point is just saying "mirrorless" doesn't guarantee 100% noise free - it may still depend on what mode you're using, per whichever body you happen to have.
 
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A thought came to me that in the old days many journalists who used SLRs kept a Leica body around for the times they needed a silent camera. Courtroom trial coverage was a common example, or for live performance coverage.

This kind of thing may move journalists to mirrorless -- maybe a single body, possibly with a 70-200 or possibly with an adapter for their current lenses. Even people who prefer a DSLR will be motivated if they see a professional advantage.

I suspect that within a year or 18 months mirrorless bodies will be a routine part of a photojournalist's kit, even for those who never switch completely.

Gato
 
RE > Or have their loud rattles banned. <

I think the point of a news conference is to create pictures to publicize and/or report on the event.

BAK
 
Here's a story from The Globe and Mail about the Globe's Shooting War event that I mentioned earlier.

mail.com/canada/article-the-cost-of-shooting-war/

Glenn Lowson, who took the picture of four photographers, was about 10 feet right of me when he shot this. But he moved around a lot, and was within three feet of me for a while, when shooting.

We were in the dark, and I didn't identify his camera, but it was a Canon DSLR and it seemed pretty quiet to me.

The auditorium was quiet, with only one speaker at a time.
Lowson was the only "serious" shooter. I shot some pictures with my Canon80D set to the quiet mode, and shot some pictures without noticing any dirty looks directed my way.

There were some audience members holding up cell phones.

Some of the featured photographers took pictures of each other. One had a little red point and shoot, a couple had cell phones, Tim Page had a DSLR and a Leica. I did not notice if it was film or memory card.

Anyway, the point of this? My 80D on quiet was not annoying in a theatre-style auditorium.

BAK
 
SaltyPeanut said:
Either way you really didn't have to be such a d*ck about it,
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Your perception is your reality.
Member said:
You never know what technology will bring tomorrow.
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In this particular case we all know, as there has been usable solutions for a decade already, and partial solutions for much longer. Once more, this is mostly about attitude/mindset and pack animal behaviour, not about 'tech' or spec sheets trivia.
Member said:
Point is just saying "mirrorless" doesn't guarantee 100% noise free
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No one is demanding 100% silence, but nevermind. I believe this is enough pointless pedantry for one topic.
Cheers.
 
BAK said:
RE > Or have their loud rattles banned. <

I think the point of a news conference is to create pictures to publicize and/or report on the event.
Click to expand...
...rather than disturb and distract the conference with noisy rattlers.

It's up to each user of those noisy rattlers to implement a new behaviour model, or possibly have new restrictive policies being introduced eventually, as someone pointed out early on.
 
eFilm said:
SaltyPeanut said:
Either way you really didn't have to be such a d*ck about it,
Click to expand...
Your perception is your reality.
Click to expand...
Look into some anger management classes. I hear they can really help.
eFilm said:
eFilm said:
You never know what technology will bring tomorrow.
Click to expand...
In this particular case we all know, as there has been usable solutions for a decade already, and partial solutions for much longer. Once more, this is mostly about attitude/mindset and pack animal behaviour, not about 'tech' or spec sheets trivia.
Click to expand...
Apparently single animal behavior as well. All it really needed was a simple "live view silent shooting doesn't work in these cases".
eFilm said:
eFilm said:
Point is just saying "mirrorless" doesn't guarantee 100% noise free
Click to expand...
No one is demanding 100% silence, but nevermind. I believe this is enough pointless pedantry for one topic.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Cheers.
 
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