Tricky macro photography: what went possibly wrong?

aryalg · Jun 24, 2019

I am relatively new to macro photography, that too with a full frame camera. I recently bought a7rii with 50 mm f2.8 macro for a quite good deal. Since then I have been giving it a spin in my free time. I enjoy shooting nature and landscapes and macro has always been in my wishlist.

The photographs I am making makes me wonder what wrong I am possibly doing. I am struggling to take photos as sharp as I wish. It is a challenge to focus, holding the camera still and getting sharp photos seems a lot difficult. I am starting to wonder if IBIS is overrated for macro and in general as even 1/40 second shots on 50 mm lens comes out blurry. I have a bit shaky hands but the blur I used to get with non-stablised lens and camera combo of a6000 and Samyang 21mm f1.4 and the new full frame combo does not show much of a difference. Of course, they are totally different lenses/camera combinations and it's highly likely I am doing something I should not be doing.

I have attached photos below for your scrutiny. These are RAW converted to JPEG with default LR settings and no additional PP. They are not great in composition but what could have gone wrong and how I can make them better? Please be gentle in your response as I want to learn.

This was shot indoors on a tripod. The light was pretty low. Focused on the stem. But there is some blur. IBIS was off. My best guess is some micro winds as shorter exposure times gave sharper pictures. What else could it be?

I like the composition but the shot is quite blurry. The light was low as the time was overcast evening. There was some wind. Even though I tried my best I couldn't get it sharp. Camera movement or subject movement? Minimum focus working distance was challenging too as I was triggering some movements myself as this guy was in a tricky position.

This was daytime and bright. the shot is pretty sharp for me. I will be happy with this level of details. DoF is a challenge and composition could have been better. I wish other small subjects were at least as sharp as this insect.

Less sharp than I wish for. DOF issue or focusing perfection required? It was challenging to focus on where I wanted to.

I wish I had a longer lens and wish that handsome guy tolerated me coming closer. Quite pleased with details on focus area which is on lizard's head. I wish more shots were at least this detailed.

I am a hobbyist and photography is purely for pleasure and joy. I don't make any money with these photographs. Still, I wish I could get better photos both technically and aesthetically. Your insights could be helpful to learn.

--
Regards,
Gaurav
My photos at: https://500px.com/aryalgaurav
www.instagram.com/ggauravaryal

mcrksman · Jun 25, 2019

I am not a macro photographer, but I think what people usually do for macro is stop down all the way to f8+ to get better sharpness and DOF. And if your subject is moving even slightly use a higher shutter speed because the slightest movement could take it out of focus

aryalg · Jun 25, 2019

mcrksman said:
I am not a macro photographer, but I think what people usually do for macro is stop down all the way to f8+ to get better sharpness and DOF. And if your subject is moving even slightly use a higher shutter speed because the slightest movement could take it out of focus

Ed Constable · Jun 25, 2019

Hi Gaurav

Marc is giving good advice. Macro is always a compromise between depth of field and reaching the diffraction limit of your lense. I typically use f13 or f16 for macro work and sometimes on specialist lenses go >f22. You can see some of my stuff here https://bugsrus.smugmug.com/New-Insecta

You nearly always need some additional lighting. There are lots of relatively chep ways to do this using home made diffusion and extensions arms.

Good luck and I like the lizard.

Ed

Lightshow · Jun 25, 2019

IBIS can do some amazing things, but at macro distances it can't fix everything, With a longish shutter, your body is swaying if you move toward or away from your subject, it will be outside the capabilities of IBIS, add to that, your subject can move.

Invest in a flash, you'll be able to stop down to maximize DOF and keep the shutter speed high enough to stop the subject's movement.

a tripod/monopod can help when you're pushing the limits.

Far too many people use technology as a crutch to fix their lazy fundamental technique, when ask too much of it, it will humble you in short order by giving you bad performance. Welcome back to the real world where a polished fundamental technique can save the day, at least that's my experience.

aryalg · Jun 25, 2019

Ed Constable said:
Hi Gaurav

Marc is giving good advice. Macro is always a compromise between depth of field and reaching the diffraction limit of your lense. I typically use f13 or f16 for macro work and sometimes on specialist lenses go >f22. You can see some of my stuff here https://bugsrus.smugmug.com/New-Insecta

You nearly always need some additional lighting. There are lots of relatively chep ways to do this using home made diffusion and extensions arms.

Good luck and I like the lizard.

Ed

Thank you ed for your inputs. You have pretty good collection of images on your page.

aryalg · Jun 25, 2019

Lightshow said:
IBIS can do some amazing things, but at macro distances it can't fix everything, With a longish shutter, your body is swaying if you move toward or away from your subject, it will be outside the capabilities of IBIS, add to that, your subject can move.

I am realising this exact phenomena. A slight movement throws everything out of focus. And IBIS works only with some camera shake.

Lightshow said:
Invest in a flash, you'll be able to stop down to maximize DOF and keep the shutter speed high enough to stop the subject's movement.

Flash seems like a good investment. More gear more money required

Lightshow said:
a tripod/monopod can help when you're pushing the limits.

Far too many people use technology as a crutch to fix their lazy fundamental technique, when ask too much of it, it will humble you in short order by giving you bad performance. Welcome back to the real world where a polished fundamental technique can save the day, at least that's my experience.

I agree. Good techniques and skills are probably the best specs of camera anyone can wish for.

lim yau tong · Jun 25, 2019

Your ISO can be increased to 1600 without noticable noise. Stop down your aperture to f8-f11 and exposure speed 1/125 and above. I would recommend to use LED lighting or flash. 50mm macro lens is hard to focus. I normaly would recommend 90mm and above. Deploying a tripod would help to stabilise the image more.

nebulla · Jun 25, 2019

Besides increasing the aperture to F8 or even to F11 or F16 for Macro, its a good idea to use a tripod and instead of firing the shutter yourself use 10 sec self timer on the camera to counteract any movement. The subject does not necessarily have to be totally in focus, but the area which is important needs to be sharp. If shooting handheld , keep your shutter speed high enough and set your camera to Auto ISO. Hope this works for you.

KE_DP · Jun 25, 2019

nebulla said:
Besides increasing the aperture to F8 or even to F11 or F16 for Macro, its a good idea to use a tripod and instead of firing the shutter yourself use 10 sec self timer on the camera to counteract any movement. The subject does not necessarily have to be totally in focus, but the area which is important needs to be sharp. If shooting handheld , keep your shutter speed high enough and set your camera to Auto ISO. Hope this works for you.

They mentioned tripod on the 6 second long exposure but something so lightweight outdoors did likely move.

An alternative to the timer - one could get an inexpensive knock off remote control - or use the Sony App on a phone (I think it's working?)

Also if you do use tripod - add a center weight to it if there's an option.

Lastly - also try manual focus since you seem to be shooting some objects that don't move the extra little time it takes may help to refine focus.

It's all a matter of testing out different techniques and find the ones that work for you best.

ActionPhotoPassion · Jun 25, 2019

I concur with the use of your flash additionally to your other options.

50mm is a tough lens to use for macro on bugs and others subjects that fear us though

David5833 · Jun 25, 2019

Use a tripod and invest in a good one. If shooting outdoors where there is even the slightest breeze, you will get blur at anything but very fast shutter speeds, even with a tripod. Even with a flash, use a tripod, it is very hard to hand-hold for macro. The smallest of movements of the camera or the subject will cause blur. For subjects like your dandelion puff, it will be almost impossible to get the outer parts in focus if you are focusing on the stem. Use the smallest aperture you can get away with, but at macro magnification levels it will be very hard to get all the parts of three dimensional objects in focus, so learn how to do focus stacking if you want everything in focus. Otherwise, pick the part you want to be in focus. With small creatures, if the eyes are in focus it will often be OK even if other parts are not.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/143821723@N06/with/46460832575/

Pixel Pooper · Jun 25, 2019

Handheld macro works best with flash. The smallest camera movement will give you a blurry image so you need the short duration of the flash exposure to freeze it. Fast shutter speeds are not enough, and at the apertures you need for DOF your ISO will be too high. You want to shoot at base ISO, f/8 to f/16 aperture, and 1/100 or faster shutter speed. This will give you a low ambient exposure so the majority of your exposure is from the flash. You also need a diffuser so the lighting is not too harsh.

RicksAstro · Jun 25, 2019

Good summary of the very typical challenges of macro photography. I think the responses have been great.

Bug photography with a 50mm is quite difficult as well since you need to be so close. You often block some of the light with the lens/camera/body.

Stopping down to f8 or f11 is pretty typical. Using a flash will really help a lot. A normal flash, often used off-camera with a cord or wireless to avoid lens shadowing, will give higher contrast with shadows. Using a a ring flash that mounts to the front of the lens will give super even lighting. The choice is dependent on personal preference.

For non tripod work, I usually leave it manual focus and practice hitting the shutter as the focus plane crosses where I want as my body sways. Using focus peaking can really help as well.

aryalg · Jun 25, 2019

nebulla said:
Besides increasing the aperture to F8 or even to F11 or F16 for Macro, its a good idea to use a tripod and instead of firing the shutter yourself use 10 sec self timer on the camera to counteract any movement. The subject does not necessarily have to be totally in focus, but the area which is important needs to be sharp. If shooting handheld , keep your shutter speed high enough and set your camera to Auto ISO. Hope this works for you.

Thank you for excellent suggestions. I will use tripod more often for this kind of shots.

Macro is a challenge yet fun style of photography.

aryalg · Jun 25, 2019

KE_DP said:
nebulla said:

Besides increasing the aperture to F8 or even to F11 or F16 for Macro, its a good idea to use a tripod and instead of firing the shutter yourself use 10 sec self timer on the camera to counteract any movement. The subject does not necessarily have to be totally in focus, but the area which is important needs to be sharp. If shooting handheld , keep your shutter speed high enough and set your camera to Auto ISO. Hope this works for you.

Click to expand...

They mentioned tripod on the 6 second long exposure but something so lightweight outdoors did likely move.

An alternative to the timer - one could get an inexpensive knock off remote control - or use the Sony App on a phone (I think it's working?)

Also if you do use tripod - add a center weight to it if there's an option.

Lastly - also try manual focus since you seem to be shooting some objects that don't move the extra little time it takes may help to refine focus.

It's all a matter of testing out different techniques and find the ones that work for you best.

aryalg · Jun 25, 2019

David5833 said:
Use a tripod and invest in a good one. If shooting outdoors where there is even the slightest breeze, you will get blur at anything but very fast shutter speeds, even with a tripod. Even with a flash, use a tripod, it is very hard to hand-hold for macro. The smallest of movements of the camera or the subject will cause blur. For subjects like your dandelion puff, it will be almost impossible to get the outer parts in focus if you are focusing on the stem. Use the smallest aperture you can get away with, but at macro magnification levels it will be very hard to get all the parts of three dimensional objects in focus, so learn how to do focus stacking if you want everything in focus. Otherwise, pick the part you want to be in focus. With small creatures, if the eyes are in focus it will often be OK even if other parts are not.

aryalg · Jun 25, 2019

RicksAstro said:
Good summary of the very typical challenges of macro photography. I think the responses have been great.

Thank you and this thread has received excellent responses. Hope it will also help other photographers who experience similar challenges.

RicksAstro said:
Bug photography with a 50mm is quite difficult as well since you need to be so close. You often block some of the light with the lens/camera/body.

True. There is a risk of knocking the subject and causing movement. Bugs get scared. I wish there was a longer working distance at macro magnification. 90 mm and longer would be ideal for such scenario.

RicksAstro said:
Stopping down to f8 or f11 is pretty typical. Using a flash will really help a lot. A normal flash, often used off-camera with a cord or wireless to avoid lens shadowing, will give higher contrast with shadows. Using a a ring flash that mounts to the front of the lens will give super even lighting. The choice is dependent on personal preference.

For non tripod work, I usually leave it manual focus and practice hitting the shutter as the focus plane crosses where I want as my body sways. Using focus peaking can really help as well.

Great tips Rick. I will practice shooting in burst. A7rii is a bit slow for this though.

tqlla · Jun 25, 2019

It may sound weird but I manual focus with focus peaking, then move forward or backward to make sure it stays in focus. (usually when I take pictures of engagement rings)

lim yau tong · Jun 25, 2019

aryalg said:
nebulla said:

Besides increasing the aperture to F8 or even to F11 or F16 for Macro, its a good idea to use a tripod and instead of firing the shutter yourself use 10 sec self timer on the camera to counteract any movement. The subject does not necessarily have to be totally in focus, but the area which is important needs to be sharp. If shooting handheld , keep your shutter speed high enough and set your camera to Auto ISO. Hope this works for you.

Click to expand...

Thank you for excellent suggestions. I will use tripod more often for this kind of shots.

Macro is a challenge yet fun style of photography.

Use flash if you don't want to use tripod.

Tricky macro photography: what went possibly wrong?

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