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Dragonflies & focus q's

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nopix

nopix

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G85 and 75-300 lens

Out of many many tries, these are the only two I was able to walk away with. The rest, for the most part, had the camera trying to focus on the background. Very frustrating. This seems to be normal for contrast detect cameras.



44127621dff44a75973d559f9a26db89.jpg




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nopix said:
G85 and 75-300 lens

Out of many many tries, these are the only two I was able to walk away with. The rest, for the most part, had the camera trying to focus on the background. Very frustrating. This seems to be normal for contrast detect cameras.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar with the G85 but I used to shoot dragons many years ago and be able to nail the focus with my E-M1 using the single small point S-AF, pointed right on the back (engine bay) of the dragons. It could be the hybrid PDAF on the E-M1 that does the work, but I think CDAF should work if you zoom in and select the middle of the tail.
 
For such macro manual focus is much better in my opinion than any autofocus. Use magnify to see if you have nailed the focus. For smaller insects you can move the camera back and forth for focus adjustment (although dragonflies might be a bit too large for that).
 
Zone Pre-Focus at a distance closer than the dragonfly. Use your smallest focus point and put it on the body/head/tail of the dragonfly before you half press the shutter for focus. If you have the camera focused beyond the dragonfly when you half press the shutter, the camera is likely to focus on the background which almost always has more contrast than the target.







--
drj3
 
Last edited:
Personally, I've found it very easy to get just closer than the minimum focus distance when taking close ups of flowers, insects, etc.

Specially when using my 75-300 MkII, but also with my f2/50 macro, 12-50 macro in macro mode (43mm), 12-100 and FTs 14-54 MkII. Both the latter lenses will focus very close, but there is a limit! Any/all lenses can cause this to happen, regardless of the specific minimum focus distance of the particular lens.

Could this be part of your problem?
 
Yes what drj3 said
 
joeletx said:
nopix said:
G85 and 75-300 lens

Out of many many tries, these are the only two I was able to walk away with. The rest, for the most part, had the camera trying to focus on the background. Very frustrating. This seems to be normal for contrast detect cameras.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar with the G85 but I used to shoot dragons many years ago and be able to nail the focus with my E-M1 using the single small point S-AF, pointed right on the back (engine bay) of the dragons. It could be the hybrid PDAF on the E-M1 that does the work, but I think CDAF should work if you zoom in and select the middle of the tail.
Click to expand...
Actually I suspect it is the PDAF that does the trick, I don't have this problem with my DSLR's.
 
magnesus3 said:
For such macro manual focus is much better in my opinion than any autofocus. Use magnify to see if you have nailed the focus. For smaller insects you can move the camera back and forth for focus adjustment (although dragonflies might be a bit too large for that).
Click to expand...
Well, these are not macros though perhaps at best close ups.
 
drj3 said:
Zone Pre-Focus at a distance closer than the dragonfly. Use your smallest focus point and put it on the body/head/tail of the dragonfly before you half press the shutter for focus. If you have the camera focused beyond the dragonfly when you half press the shutter, the camera is likely to focus on the background which almost always has more contrast than the target.

Click to expand...
It seems as though if I don't pre-focus close to the subject, either in front of or behind, the camera will go to the background. I believe the problem is with the contrast detect af.
 
JaKing said:
Personally, I've found it very easy to get just closer than the minimum focus distance when taking close ups of flowers, insects, etc.

Specially when using my 75-300 MkII, but also with my f2/50 macro, 12-50 macro in macro mode (43mm), 12-100 and FTs 14-54 MkII. Both the latter lenses will focus very close, but there is a limit! Any/all lenses can cause this to happen, regardless of the specific minimum focus distance of the particular lens.

Could this be part of your problem?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is easy to be within the minimum focus distance but that isn't the problem here (although that does happen to me).
 
nopix said:
drj3 said:
Zone Pre-Focus at a distance closer than the dragonfly. Use your smallest focus point and put it on the body/head/tail of the dragonfly before you half press the shutter for focus. If you have the camera focused beyond the dragonfly when you half press the shutter, the camera is likely to focus on the background which almost always has more contrast than the target.
Click to expand...
It seems as though if I don't pre-focus close to the subject, either in front of or behind, the camera will go to the background. I believe the problem is with the contrast detect af.
Click to expand...
It is not PDAF vs CDAF. I find little difference between my E-M10 (CDAF only) and either the E-M1.1 or E-M1.2 with a stationary target. Pre-focus means focusing close to the target, so that it will have more contrast than the background. PDAF focus with jump to the background if it has more contrast than the subject.

Pre-focus by point the camera at something about the same distance as the target and focus on that. Then release the shutter and point it directly at the target and then half press the shutter for focus on the target. I did find one example of a dragonfly on a plant where I used the E-M10 (my E-M1 was in for repair for 7 days). Out of 16 images, only one jumped to the background.

However as a better example that the same technique works with moving targets, see the attached using SAF focus (CDAF only) with the E-M10. I pre-focused on the flower, released the shutter, moved the focus area to the hummingbird moth, half pressed and then almost immediately fully pressed the shutter for a short burst.

Using the E-M10 requires a different technique than using the E-M1s. With the E-M1s, I would be in CAF mode(PDAF only), focus on the flower with a half press and then simply move the focus point to the target without releasing the half press of the shutter and allow the camera to focus on the target and then shoot a burst as I followed the moth around the flower.



5aac564888d14441b0d98caec555d6c6.jpg




--
drj3
 
Due to it being so lightweight to hold I have been using the 75-300 mk2 this week with both my GX8 and also my em1-mk2 using cdaf & not the usual pdaf.

In general cdaf is far more accurate for single shots, but as drj3 says it does look for highest contrast.

If you pre focus in front, then as the lens moves focus rearward it finds the dragonfly (or bird) first before it gets to the background, perfect.
Note: this method doesn't work with the PL100-400 as it focuses so fast it shoots past the subject.

The dragonfly head needs to be sharp, so focus with a pinpoint on that, or as drj3 says just behind on the shoulders if you want most of body sharp.

If I want critical sharpness when using pdaf (which hunts) I always need to take 5 shots just to make sure that one is near what I was after!

Many pros use manual focus and rock back and forth till subject is highlighted with focus peaking.

We all have to develop our own favourite method.
 
Cause if you did, you'd have found out, on page 99, about pinpoint AF.

It only works with AF-S but it helps provide precise autofocus in some dificult circumstances.

I usually default to this on my GX-7 when shooting close-ups with the 75-300 II and it works like a charm.

P.S: also, minimum focus distance might come into play (I don't have it on me right now, but if I remember correctly, the 75-300 II mfd is 1.5m except at 75mm).
 
Speed, focus be the key. And for the CDAF of Panny camera (except G9), I also think a cooperative dragonfly would be needed.

The following was an old snapshot OOC from GX7 & 14-140 f/3.5-5.6. I had 100% hitting rate (3 out of 3 shots) upon the detail of the insect on 1:1 viewing:

c9f45d293ac548fa94a34c29016295d0.jpg


It was taken at 1/1300", wide open of the lens (If I use the 45-200, likely be the same for 100-300, f/7.1~8 be needed otherwise might get soft result easily. Not sure would it be the same for 75-300). Unfortunately 140 is relatively too short for this one and I was not able to get close to it (a pool in front of me).

It is under single focus mode at center in its smallest size, AFS and use focus-recompose-shoot. I suppose Touch AF should also work. For Panny cameras including G85 (not sure G9), IMHO this combination should be the fastest (we put the focus box over the target, not require the AF system to guess and find a target for us) and most accurate (not much other option inside such small size of focus box and so the focus would be dead on our intended point 99% of time).

This little red friend was also very cooperative on that day, did not fly around a lot. All were taken within the minute once when it landed on the stone.

My 2 cents.

--
Albert
 
nopix said:
joeletx said:
nopix said:
G85 and 75-300 lens

Out of many many tries, these are the only two I was able to walk away with. The rest, for the most part, had the camera trying to focus on the background. Very frustrating. This seems to be normal for contrast detect cameras.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar with the G85 but I used to shoot dragons many years ago and be able to nail the focus with my E-M1 using the single small point S-AF, pointed right on the back (engine bay) of the dragons. It could be the hybrid PDAF on the E-M1 that does the work, but I think CDAF should work if you zoom in and select the middle of the tail.
Click to expand...
Actually I suspect it is the PDAF that does the trick, I don't have this problem with my DSLR's.
Click to expand...
Here are a couple of shots I shot a couple of years ago with the E-M1 and large single focus point using C-AF.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58305964
 
An interesting thread with some lovely pictures of one of my favourite subjects. I am contemplating going for a Panasonic G80/85 combo or a Sony A6400 combo, but want to be able to match what you guys have been capturing so well. The following are taken from an FZ200 camera, for comparison. Any comments much appreciated. Kind Regards John



























 

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StefanSC said:
Cause if you did, you'd have found out, on page 99, about pinpoint AF.
It only works with AF-S but it helps provide precise autofocus in some dificult circumstances.
I usually default to this on my GX-7 when shooting close-ups with the 75-300 II and it works like a charm.
P.S: also, minimum focus distance might come into play (I don't have it on me right now, but if I remember correctly, the 75-300 II mfd is 1.5m except at 75mm).
Click to expand...
Yes, I read the manual
 
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