Pentax for Video shooting ?

Hello,

I shoot with Pentax K series cameras (up to K1) and the subjects have always been static - either landscape or macro or senior portrait. I never had any need to do 'real time' or continuous focus tracking of any of my subjects. I am happy with my Pentax cameras and a dozen of DA (including Limited) and D-FA lenses.

Now, I have been asked to video shoot some private events like wedding, birthday events, ballet and music concerts. The video length may go from 30 to 45 mins continuously. I have never seen anyone shooting videos with Pentax gears in the events. Is it impossible to use Pentax to record video ? I have the need of Full HD progressive video with 60fps. (I do not need 4K ) . I am reluctant to look at other camera brands and invest money in their system. Is it impossible to shoot the video footage of the above spec using Pentax DSLR and lens ? Does the DA 55-300 ED PLM RE help in video shooting ? How are other Pentaxians meet their video shooting requirements (if any) ?

I did some home work and come to a conclusion that if at all Pentax can not meet my needs for my video shooting assignment, I would choose either one of the below :

Panasonic Lumix G85 with 14-140 lens

Or

Canon EOS 80D with 18-135 STM lens

What are your thoughts ? What would you if you are a Pentaxian shooting with Pentax gears for years and have got video shooting requirements ?

Note : Around $1000 plus 200 (buffer) is what I m budgeting from price point of view. No intention of growing my lens collection into either one of the above camera systems.

This is the one area that Pentax is not that great at. I'd lean towards the Panasonic G85 for video.

The upcoming APS-C flagship might have some updated video features, but there's absolutely no info about it, other than Ricoh is working on it & a possibility of it appearing sometime next year. I don't know if you can wait that long.

I've shot a K1 side by side with a 5DmkIV. Output was mostly similar (viewers would not have been able to detect any differences.

The UI of the Canon, however, was far better. The touch screen here makes a big difference. Cameras that are designed with video in mind, from whatever manufacturer, have the edge over any camera where video is an afterthought.

If you have the budget, then look beyond Pentax. If you don't, then I'd say you can make the Pentax work for you. It will require a little more backyard practice, and there will be some inconveniences, but nothing that would stop you from doing the work.

On the Pentax Forums dot com someone recently posted links to the videos they did in Japan and elsewhere. Seemed to be fine. Go look.

tex said:

I've shot a K1 side by side with a 5DmkIV. Output was mostly similar (viewers would not have been able to detect any differences.

The UI of the Canon, however, was far better. The touch screen here makes a big difference. Cameras that are designed with video in mind, from whatever manufacturer, have the edge over any camera where video is an afterthought.

If you have the budget, then look beyond Pentax. If you don't, then I'd say you can make the Pentax work for you. It will require a little more backyard practice, and there will be some inconveniences, but nothing that would stop you from doing the work.

On the Pentax Forums dot com someone recently posted links to the videos they did in Japan and elsewhere. Seemed to be fine. Go look.

Click to expand...

He needs 60p progressive output, K-1 offers only 30p and 60i. Only casual viewers would not have been able to see the difference between 60i and 60p.

I shot this in concert with my AV department at a museum, and it was shot for an exhibition. There wasn't a major difference.

nimo_or said:

Hello,

I shoot with Pentax K series cameras (up to K1) and the subjects have always been static - either landscape or macro or senior portrait. I never had any need to do 'real time' or continuous focus tracking of any of my subjects. I am happy with my Pentax cameras and a dozen of DA (including Limited) and D-FA lenses.

Now, I have been asked to video shoot some private events like wedding, birthday events, ballet and music concerts. The video length may go from 30 to 45 mins continuously. I have never seen anyone shooting videos with Pentax gears in the events. Is it impossible to use Pentax to record video ?

Click to expand...

No, as long as your camera offers it Whether it's advisable or practical to do so is another matter, however.

nimo_or said:

I have the need of Full HD progressive video with 60fps. (I do not need 4K ) . I am reluctant to look at other camera brands and invest money in their system. Is it impossible to shoot the video footage of the above spec using Pentax DSLR and lens ?

Click to expand...

It is possible, but the results aren't pretty. The codec used by Pentax is awful, and the electronic stabilization is no good. Depending on your workflow and shooting style it could be workable. If you shoot almost exclusively on a tripod, don't need to grade, and will mostly display the videos on YouTube or another similar service, it should be fine. But it'd be next to useless for run n' gun or cinematic work.

nimo_or said:

Does the DA 55-300 ED PLM RE help in video shooting ? How are other Pentaxians meet their video shooting requirements (if any) ?

I did some home work and come to a conclusion that if at all Pentax can not meet my needs for my video shooting assignment, I would choose either one of the below :

Panasonic Lumix G85 with 14-140 lens

Click to expand...

This is an excellent choice. You could also adapt your Pentax lenses to it, for more cinematic takes. The G85 offers some of the best 1080p on the market right now, it's very intuitive to use, has a very effective IBIS, and is made to deliver professional-looking results without much problem.

nimo_or said:

Or

Canon EOS 80D with 18-135 STM lens

Click to expand...

I personally don't like it. Its footage is soft, that lens isn't very good, and working with a Canon DSLR means more money, more weight and more hassle for worse results versus a Panasonic mirrorless.

nimo_or said:

What are your thoughts ? What would you if you are a Pentaxian shooting with Pentax gears for years and have got video shooting requirements ?

Note : Around $1000 plus 200 (buffer) is what I m budgeting from price point of view. No intention of growing my lens collection into either one of the above camera systems.

Click to expand...

nimo_or said:

Hello,

I shoot with Pentax K series cameras (up to K1) and the subjects have always been static - either landscape or macro or senior portrait. I never had any need to do 'real time' or continuous focus tracking of any of my subjects. I am happy with my Pentax cameras and a dozen of DA (including Limited) and D-FA lenses.

Now, I have been asked to video shoot some private events like wedding, birthday events, ballet and music concerts. The video length may go from 30 to 45 mins continuously. I have never seen anyone shooting videos with Pentax gears in the events. Is it impossible to use Pentax to record video ? I have the need of Full HD progressive video with 60fps. (I do not need 4K ) . I am reluctant to look at other camera brands and invest money in their system. Is it impossible to shoot the video footage of the above spec using Pentax DSLR and lens ? Does the DA 55-300 ED PLM RE help in video shooting ? How are other Pentaxians meet their video shooting requirements (if any) ?

I did some home work and come to a conclusion that if at all Pentax can not meet my needs for my video shooting assignment, I would choose either one of the below :

Panasonic Lumix G85 with 14-140 lens

Or

Canon EOS 80D with 18-135 STM lens

What are your thoughts ? What would you if you are a Pentaxian shooting with Pentax gears for years and have got video shooting requirements ?

Note : Around $1000 plus 200 (buffer) is what I m budgeting from price point of view. No intention of growing my lens collection into either one of the above camera systems.

Click to expand...

These are your options:

1. Panasonic m4/3
2. Sony E with 16-35mm OSS f/4 and/or 18-105mm OSS f/4 PZ and/or 16-70mm F/4 OSS and/or 24-70 f/4 OSS
3. Samsung NX camera with NX 18-200mm OIS lens
4. Sony SLT with 16-50 f/2.8 SSM lens (cheapest option)

Make sure that you pick a model that has input for external mic, and has the video specs you are looking for. Newer models have better (faster) AF, so it depends how much money you want to spend. I went through the same drill few years back, and at that time Samsung NX system was the best for my needs, but my video work is not for money or professional--if it were, I probably would had gone with Panasonic.

Kind regards,

Massao

Thanks for the valuable inputs. I was oscillating between Panasonic and Canon. Sony has overheating issues among others and Samsung is a dead system (Unfortunately) though it offers more features. The reason I kept Canon as an option was the sensor size advantages (for low light video footage) and their unique color rendering in both stills and video ( I have not experienced myself but based on online opinions).

Kharan said:

nimo_or said:

Hello,

I shoot with Pentax K series cameras (up to K1) and the subjects have always been static - either landscape or macro or senior portrait. I never had any need to do 'real time' or continuous focus tracking of any of my subjects. I am happy with my Pentax cameras and a dozen of DA (including Limited) and D-FA lenses.

Now, I have been asked to video shoot some private events like wedding, birthday events, ballet and music concerts. The video length may go from 30 to 45 mins continuously. I have never seen anyone shooting videos with Pentax gears in the events. Is it impossible to use Pentax to record video ?

Click to expand...

No, as long as your camera offers it Whether it's advisable or practical to do so is another matter, however.

Kharan said:

I have the need of Full HD progressive video with 60fps. (I do not need 4K ) . I am reluctant to look at other camera brands and invest money in their system. Is it impossible to shoot the video footage of the above spec using Pentax DSLR and lens ?

Click to expand...

It is possible, but the results aren't pretty. The codec used by Pentax is awful, and the electronic stabilization is no good. Depending on your workflow and shooting style it could be workable. If you shoot almost exclusively on a tripod, don't need to grade, and will mostly display the videos on YouTube or another similar service, it should be fine. But it'd be next to useless for run n' gun or cinematic work.

Kharan said:

Does the DA 55-300 ED PLM RE help in video shooting ? How are other Pentaxians meet their video shooting requirements (if any) ?

I did some home work and come to a conclusion that if at all Pentax can not meet my needs for my video shooting assignment, I would choose either one of the below :

Panasonic Lumix G85 with 14-140 lens

Click to expand...

This is an excellent choice. You could also adapt your Pentax lenses to it, for more cinematic takes. The G85 offers some of the best 1080p on the market right now, it's very intuitive to use, has a very effective IBIS, and is made to deliver professional-looking results without much problem.

Kharan said:

Or

Canon EOS 80D with 18-135 STM lens

Click to expand...

I personally don't like it. Its footage is soft, that lens isn't very good, and working with a Canon DSLR means more money, more weight and more hassle for worse results versus a Panasonic mirrorless.

Kharan said:

What are your thoughts ? What would you if you are a Pentaxian shooting with Pentax gears for years and have got video shooting requirements ?

Note : Around $1000 plus 200 (buffer) is what I m budgeting from price point of view. No intention of growing my lens collection into either one of the above camera systems.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for this input. It will be even good if we can see some sample video clips in each leading camera systems. I am not sure is there any site which compares the camera's video output qualities.

nimo_or said:

How are other Pentaxians meet their video shooting requirements (if any) ?

Click to expand...

This probably isn't the answer you are looking for, but I'd collaborate with a videographer.

If you want a good result, you need an A camera, a B camera, video lights, and lots of editing.

I've seen people pull off video + photos by themselves, with Canon or Sony gear (only)... but it's a compromise.

nimo_or said:

I did some home work and come to a conclusion that if at all Pentax can not meet my needs for my video shooting assignment, I would choose either one of the below :

Panasonic Lumix G85 with 14-140 lens

Or

Click to expand...

nimo_or said:

Canon EOS 80D with 18-135 STM lens

Click to expand...

Yup, that's the Canon camera and lens that my friend is using for this.

nimo_or said:

What are your thoughts ? What would you if you are a Pentaxian shooting with Pentax gears for years and have got video shooting requirements ?

Note : Around $1000 plus 200 (buffer) is what I m budgeting from price point of view. No intention of growing my lens collection into either one of the above camera systems.

Click to expand...

That said, Ben Kanarek a well known French photographer for Vogue and other such publications used to shoot everything with Pentax. A few years back, he switched to Nikon for photos, but last time i checked he still used a Pentax for video. So it is doable!

nimo_or said:

Thanks for the valuable inputs. I was oscillating between Panasonic and Canon. Sony has overheating issues among others...

Click to expand...

Some Sony E mount cameras have overheating issues in 4k recording for long periods.

nimo_or said:

and Samsung is a dead system (Unfortunately) though it offers more features.

Click to expand...

Yes, Samsung is a dead system, but their equipment has not stopped working because there's no new camera release--it all depends on how much you want to spend, and what features you want. New Samsung gear is still available on Ebay, and the used market for Samsung gear is holding up far better than Sony A, Canon, and Pentax. I know this because I got rid of a Samsung lens few days ago for 535 USD--a lens I bought new 5 years ago for 260USD. That should tell how popular Samsung gear is ;-)

nimo_or said:

The reason I kept Canon as an option was the sensor size advantages (for low light video footage)

Click to expand...

What sensor advantage are you talking about? Canon 80d has an inferior sensor that has almost the same size (actually 8% smaller) as the one on Sony E APS-C cameras and Samsung NX cameras?

nimo_or said:

and their unique color rendering in both stills and video ( I have not experienced myself but based on online opinions).

Click to expand...

Well, that's subjective, but I suggest you try out a Canon camera to judge the rendering yourself.

Kind regards,

Massao

Massao said:

nimo_or said:

Thanks for the valuable inputs. I was oscillating between Panasonic and Canon. Sony has overheating issues among others...

Click to expand...

Some Sony E mount cameras have overheating issues in 4k recording for long periods.

Massao said:

and Samsung is a dead system (Unfortunately) though it offers more features.

Click to expand...

Yes, Samsung is a dead system, but their equipment has not stopped working because there's no new camera release--it all depends on how much you want to spend, and what features you want. New Samsung gear is still available on Ebay, and the used market for Samsung gear is holding up far better than Sony A, Canon, and Pentax. I know this because I got rid of a Samsung lens few days ago for 535 USD--a lens I bought new 5 years ago for 260USD. That should tell how popular Samsung gear is ;-)

Massao said:

The reason I kept Canon as an option was the sensor size advantages (for low light video footage)

Click to expand...

What sensor advantage are you talking about? Canon 80d has an inferior sensor that has almost the same size (actually 8% smaller) as the one on Sony E APS-C cameras and Samsung NX cameras?

Click to expand...

Thanks again. You gave me another interesting perspective on Samsung options.I will look into it.

Massao said:

Massao said:

and their unique color rendering in both stills and video ( I have not experienced myself but based on online opinions).

Click to expand...

Well, that's subjective, but I suggest you try out a Canon camera to judge the rendering yourself.

Kind regards,

Massao

Click to expand...

nimo_or said:

Thank you very much for this input. It will be even good if we can see some sample video clips in each leading camera systems. I am not sure is there any site which compares the camera's video output qualities.

Click to expand...

You’re welcome. You can download video samples from most reviewed cameras in this site and Imaging Resource. Don’t use YouTube to check video quality, because the heavy compression used in the site can kill a lot of finer detail and gradations. In general, though, I feel like there’s only two tiers of image quality among consumer stills cameras: bad (1080 Canon, Pentax, older Nikon Fuji and Olympus) and great (most Sony and Panasonic, Fuji Nikon and Olympus after 2017), with Canon’s crippled 4K somewhere in the middle.

Another choice is a good cell phone. The latest flagships make amazing video. Or, if you want a portable, stable, and effective solution, you could get a DJI Osmo. I would warn you against Samsung, which someone else recommended; the extant cameras are old, and in a lot of cases no parts or service can be obtained for them.

To go beyond 30 min continuously, only some of the Panasonic’s meet your criteria.

At 1080p, the EOS M50 is hard to beat for the price.

If you can do manual focus, I really like Fuji XH1 with a Pentax K adapter.

Hello nimo_or



First, I hope you don't mind my spelling, English is not my mother language.

Some point's I would look at for video:

- our K1 do have 25 min as a max for one record file time. Other cameras do have this limitation too, so inform you about this !

- There is a often a different, what you can do before and during the record

the K1 can: focus before the record and during the record only when you push the AF button, but focusing during a record takes a lot time and do hunt also. It's focusing speed is not comparable with a focusing before the record ! So check here also what other brands do regards focusing before and during a record.

the K1 can change the exposure before and during the record. In the M-mode you can use the green button (for a metering) also before and during a record. Check what other brands can do in the M-mode.

you can use the AE-L look before and during the record, so that in the M-mode: you can shift the aperture/shutter speed combination during a record. For Pentax, the KP is the only camera, which can shift also the ISO/aperture or ISO/shutter speed, when AE-L is set. That is very nice, so inform you what other brands do.



For the pictures, I used my KP, but the K1 is not different here:

Infos and Focus help for the manual focusing:

Only in the M-mode we see what ISO the camera use ! In all other modes the ISO is not displayed, so that you have than no clue, what quality you will get. I hope that other brands show you the ISO also in the other modes too.





the picture above has no focus help, the next has it









but for example the KP offers also such focus help. Inform you what other brands do





When your object is more fare away, it is not easy to focus on it:





Therefore a loop is a good focus help too: inform you about the loop factor. For the picture above I need a 16x loop for to see it well, like the next picture show:





Here I use the loop for the closer up picture above. I need now only a 4x loop



I can use also in the loop mode the other focusing helps, like the next picture shows.

Inform you what other brands do then. It is possible to mix a loop with the other focusing helps ?





- This nice focusing helps you have only before the record, but not during a record. So inform you what other brand do than.

- a par-focal zoom lens:

when you manually focus and change your focal length, a zoom lens change normally it's focus too. Only a par-focal zoom lens have in all zoom positions the same focus. On that way you must not correct your focus when you zoom in or out.





best regards KPM2

Hello again,

With A, F, FA...and so on lens, the K1 (and also the KP) use a stop down mode in the movie mode before the record ! On that way you see the DOF.

BUT: with the old M or K lens the K1 (and also the KP) use no stop down mode before the record !

That can fool you when you use the M-mode and for the metering the green button. It also can do end up in a odd looking display:

For example: the lens is at f22 and my display show this. But it show the lens at full open before the record !



So that the record looks ..... total underexposed: (I used the green button before, but with that ISO the camera could only underexpose)



You can see this also when you use the DOF preview before the record.

For the next picture I used the correct exposure for the record (when the lens get stopped down than to my f22 setting), but before the record my display looks than like this: total overexposed, because the lens is full open than !



again, this happens only with the old K and M lens when used in the M-mode of the camera !!!!!

best regards KPM2

Hello again

When you make ballet videos, a general trouble will be the exposure to the changing stage light. So, do not let the camera alone. Check always the exposure. For example even when you use a matrix metering....one person in one single spot on the stage...the rest of the stage is dark....will end up in a overexposed person. With a K1 (and KP also) you can use spot, centre or matrix metering. Also the keep the highlight setting. But during a record you can not change the metering mode you did select before the record. Check what other brands do allow here. The K1 (and KP also) has a overexposure warning, which you can select to on or off (but you can not change this setting during a record). The warning end up in showing the overexposed areas in blinking red. Some other brands show such a overexposed areas in cebra.

When the stage light is red, the histogram do not show that the red channel get overexposed. Maybe other cameras do show a 3x histogram in R&G&B too, that you can use than for to control a red stage light.

The WB: You must decide if you let the camera make the WB, or if you use a fixed one.

When you will mix in your video movies from your and other cameras, it is awful when they used a different WB, that you notice at once !

When you will use a auto WB, check how quick a camera can change it's WB when it's in it's auto WB, and if it can do that also during a record too.

We may have a cine look, but not a cine audio in our videos !

You can hear a touch on the camera, or serving a wheel, zooming and so on in the audio. Therefore, a extern micro is a must have !

for ballet: try to get the audio from the theatres mixer output, use not your built in micro.

an other point is: For example it sound ok when you use a wide angle lens, but with a tele, the object can be close....but the voice sound's fare away. That is really not good in a video.

BTW: a K1 (KP also) video has a readable audio format for my PC use...but not for my TV. On my TV I get the message: audio format is not supported...and I see the video without audio.

best regards KPM2

Thank you very much KPM2 for much detailed explanation. Your posting is very useful to understand the capability and limitations of using the K1 for video shooting. But, I afraid I will be able to use my K series cameras for the ballet and other ‘run-and-gun’ sort of video footage shoots. I expect the next Pentax APS-C DSLR will bring more video friendly features. For now, I incline towards a video friendly camera which is good at C-AF at video mode. I m still evaluating the G85 and other options. Most probably will go to G85 even though I m not fully convinced on its AF and low light performance.

nimo_or said:

Thank you very much KPM2 for much detailed explanation. Your posting is very useful to understand the capability and limitations of using the K1 for video shooting. But, I afraid I will be able to use my K series cameras for the ballet and other ‘run-and-gun’ sort of video footage shoots. I expect the next Pentax APS-C DSLR will bring more video friendly features. For now, I incline towards a video friendly camera which is good at C-AF at video mode. I m still evaluating the G85 and other options. Most probably will go to G85 even though I m not fully convinced on its AF and low light performance.

Click to expand...

I know you weren't replying to me, but I'd like to point out that the G85's AF isn't as terrible as it's made out to be. It won't track subjects well, but it can be used for nice focus racking (it can be preset before shooting, leading to a very convincing rack), and it goes point to point without much fuss. You just can't expect it to work as easily as a Canon or Sony with tracking.

The smaller sensor isn't a lot smaller than Canon's APS-C, and it actually delivers cleaner results in low light thanks to its use of most of the sensor area to record. This is even more evident when comparing 4K footage versus 1080, since noise reduction algorithms can be applied to the 4K before downsampling it to 1080. Canon DSLRs use a recording method known as 'line-skipping' to record video, in which the camera doesn't read entire rows of photosites on the sensor (it 'skips lines') to avoid the need to do computationally-intensive binning or downsampling. This method, although quite economical, produces unimpressive footage that often looks soft, and sacrifices a sizeable amount of sensor surface, leading to inferior low light performance. Don't expect people to mention this in most reviews, however.

Panasonic is improving their DFD AF. The G95 seems to have slightly better AF than the G85.


^ This will give you an idea.

They're going all in with their DFD technology. It's only going to keep getting better & better with every generation. I can tell you that their video AF is leaps & bound better than anything that Pentax currently offers. The best video AF from Pentax seems to be with the K-70 & DA 55-300PLM, but compared to the G85, the Pentax is pretty bad at focusing. I don't really do video, but if I did, I would definitely would be looking at Panasonic cameras.