Clearing up the "X-T2 is better than the X-T3 at high ISO" myth

GabrielFFontes said:

Hey everyone.

I would like to post a few images here, provided by DPReview's comparison tool, just to disprove the myth that some people spread around, saying that the X-T2 is better than the X-T3 in high ISO situations.

I've seen this argument used quite a few times around here, and I think those arguments started from a misinterpretation of DPReview's findings.

Let's take a look at a few samples at ISOs ranging from 3200 to 12800.



It's pretty clear, at least to my eyes, that the X-T3 outperforms the X-T2 noticeably at every ISO value. I'd place the X-T3 at around 2/5ths of a stop better than the X-T2, so definitely not a game changer, but more importantly, not WORSE than the X-T2 as some people try to paint the picture, trying to defend the gear they own.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I have used an X-T3 alongside an X-T2 in difficult light and am satisfied that, while close, the X-T2 was consistently the better performer. I found the X-T3 to be noisier - especially in the chroma department, and the luminance noise was "chunkier' and required more NR to deal with. The difference was more noticeable when using the electronic shutter, with the X-T3 adding significant noise, even at lower ISOs. I kept the X-T2, the 3 went back.

Here is a comparison at ISO 12800 the first is with identical NR settings, both Luminance and Color. Notice the chroma noise and large artifacts in the X-T3 image that are absent in the X-T2 image:


X-T3, ISO 12.800 on the left, X-H1, ISO 12.800 on the right

Here is the same image with optimum sharpening and NR applied to the X-T3 image. There is no combination of adjustments that will remove the ugly artifacts and chroma noise while still preventing the noticeable color fade and bleed - very obvious in the whites of the eyes, The X-T2 sensor can manage this nearly as well at ISO 25600, While the X-T3 can't even pull it off at ISO 6400. These were processed from RAFs using Iridient X-Transformer and Lightroom, maybe there will less of a difference using different software, I don't know, but this is what I use and, for me, the older sensor, while slower, still has an image quality edge.


X-T3, ISO 12.800 on the left, X-H1, ISO 12.800 on the right

Morris0 said:

Yes, we have different eyes

Morris

Click to expand...

Yes, what we see is quite dependent upon our eyes and monitors. For me I definitely see the blue noise in the XT2 dark areas.

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!



Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

--

Emile15 said:

Looking at the comparisons myself I can only support the reviewer’s conclusion. However, I would not lose any sleep over the difference.

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I probably agree here. I do think the language the reviewer used exaggerates the difference somewhat. Something caught my eye was the X-T2 looks like its noise reduction is more aggressive but since it raw I don't see how that can be,

In real life where you take a picture and don't crops out 5% as your resulting image no one is going to notice this difference. I think the pixel peeper need their own forum to debate in lol

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

Click to expand...

That's absolutely nonsense, Lightroom with Iridient X-Transformer is every bit as good as Capture 1, different tools, but the results are comparable.

Erik Baumgartner said:

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

Click to expand...

That's absolutely nonsense, Lightroom with Iridient X-Transformer is every bit as good as Capture 1, different tools, but the results are comparable.

Click to expand...

No, they are not.

--

SVJIM said:

Morris0 said:

Yes, we have different eyes

Morris

Click to expand...

Yes, what we see is quite dependent upon our eyes and monitors. For me I definitely see the blue noise in the XT2 dark areas.

Click to expand...

I agree for the top two on the right. The rest are as I described

Morris

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

Click to expand...

That's absolutely nonsense, Lightroom with Iridient X-Transformer is every bit as good as Capture 1, different tools, but the results are comparable.

Click to expand...

No, they are not.

Click to expand...

This could go on all day, but OK, Yes they are. C1 has some nice tools, Lr has some nice tools, If you know what you're doing, you can get great results with either. Admittedly, Lr's demosaicing isn't the greatest, but with used with Iridient X-Transformer there isn't a problem, it is absolutely on par with C1.

Just before I upgraded from X-T2 to X-T3, I have looked into the ISO comparison arguments, and figured X-T3 out-performs X-T2 with ISO performance IN DIME LIGHT, in good lighting, X-T2 is better, but why do we need to crank up ISO in good lighting?

So it is really clear to me, then I bought the X-T3 and never care about this argument again.

Oh no, not that... poop (even school teachers say this word) again:

--
My Photos

The T3 and T30 are not an upgrade in terms of IQ. Most importantly this cameras are more noisy when you pull shadows and they incorporate 2 million of interpolated pixels spread all over the sensor. This become painfully obvious during post processing as it had being reported by many users.

GabrielFFontes said:

Hey everyone.

I would like to post a few images here, provided by DPReview's comparison tool, just to disprove the myth that some people spread around, saying that the X-T2 is better than the X-T3 in high ISO situations.

I've seen this argument used quite a few times around here, and I think those arguments started from a misinterpretation of DPReview's findings.

Let's take a look at a few samples at ISOs ranging from 3200 to 12800.



It's pretty clear, at least to my eyes, that the X-T3 outperforms the X-T2 noticeably at every ISO value. I'd place the X-T3 at around 2/5ths of a stop better than the X-T2, so definitely not a game changer, but more importantly, not WORSE than the X-T2 as some people try to paint the picture, trying to defend the gear they own.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Thankfully I purchased the X-t3 for all the things the X-T2 cannot do, still and video wise!

I shoot at 80 iso most of the time and there is less noise than at 160...voila!

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

Click to expand...

Yes but zero the NR defaults whatever you are using - in LR there is default chroma but not luma NR applied, in C1 there is default Luma and Chroma NR unless you turn it off

--
"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

Marco Cinnirella said:

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

Click to expand...

Yes but zero the NR defaults whatever you are using - in LR there is default chroma but not luma NR applied, in C1 there is default Luma and Chroma NR unless you turn it off

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcoc/
"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

Click to expand...

They are both Lightroom. X-T2 and X-T3

Erik Baumgartner said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

Click to expand...

Yes but zero the NR defaults whatever you are using - in LR there is default chroma but not luma NR applied, in C1 there is default Luma and Chroma NR unless you turn it off

Click to expand...

They are both Lightroom. X-T2 and X-T3

Click to expand...

I know the DPR shots are but Benjamin was suggesting C1 be used instead - I just wanted to therefore mention that C1 does some luminance and chroma NR if all sliders are left at default

--
"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

Marco Cinnirella said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

Click to expand...

Yes but zero the NR defaults whatever you are using - in LR there is default chroma but not luma NR applied, in C1 there is default Luma and Chroma NR unless you turn it off

Click to expand...

They are both Lightroom. X-T2 and X-T3

Click to expand...

I know the DPR shots are but Benjamin was suggesting C1 be used instead - I just wanted to therefore mention that C1 does some luminance and chroma NR if all sliders are left at default

Click to expand...

I’ve used both, I prefer Lightroom with IXT. This thread has nothing to do with C1, it was comparing the X-T2 and X-T3. If Benjamin wants to post a C1 comparison, he is free to do so.

Erik Baumgartner said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

Benjamin Kanarek said:

Erik Baumgartner said:

GabrielFFontes said:

Morris0 said:

Looking at these full screen, the 3 seems to have more croma noise

Morris

Click to expand...

Really? The X-T2 starts to exhibit a blue cast at high ISOs, being the most evident in darker areas, where it shows very strong blue color noise, while the X-T3 remains clean. It seems quite clear to my eyes, specially in the ISO 12800 and 6400 shots.

Click to expand...

I think the purple cast in the Tungsten X-T2 shot is something of an anomaly, as that lower left area appears more heavily shadowed than in the X-T3 shot and also appears that way in some shots from the same time period in other camera shots too (Sony A6500). It doesn't appear nearly as strongly in the X-H1 (same sensor) shot. While the X-T3 might indeed be better in the deep shadows, I shoot in very low light pretty regularly with the X-T2 and X-T20 and don't have any purple shadow issues that can't easily be dealt with, even at ISO 12800+. I've shot with them together in low light and didn't see much, if any, difference in the shadows. Purple shadows are pretty easy to neutralize with the Shadow Tint control in Lightroom should they occur anyway. The chroma noise and artifacts and color bleed present in some X-T3 shots is less easy to correct.


X-T2 on left, X-T3 on the right, Both at ISO 12,800. Lightroom/IXT purple corrected.

Click to expand...

WHYYYYYYYYY in Lightroom...NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Do this in Capture One Pro only. The differences are flagrant. Nikon, Sony, Canon are fine in Lightroom, but not Fujifilm/

Click to expand...

Yes but zero the NR defaults whatever you are using - in LR there is default chroma but not luma NR applied, in C1 there is default Luma and Chroma NR unless you turn it off

Click to expand...

They are both Lightroom. X-T2 and X-T3

Click to expand...

I know the DPR shots are but Benjamin was suggesting C1 be used instead - I just wanted to therefore mention that C1 does some luminance and chroma NR if all sliders are left at default

Click to expand...

I’ve used both, I prefer Lightroom with IXT. This thread has nothing to do with C1, it was comparing the X-T2 and X-T3. If Benjamin wants to post a C1 comparison, he is free to do so.

Click to expand...

Fair enough !

--
"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.