Reading mode: Light Dark

Smartphone Autofocus vs EOS M1, M3 & M5, Canon T2I

Go to last post
F

fstopx2

Senior Member
Messages
1,088
Solutions
2
Reaction score
873
I have a regular iPhone 7, not the 7 Plus with the dual cameras . Its about 3 years old I guess. In the last year or so it has become my most used camera. For a bunch of reasons:

-Its always there and in my pocket.

-Its super convenient - I can post pictures instantly, share them with my family, whatever instantly.

-If I want to do post processing, its super convenient.

-It shoots very fast even under adverse conditions.

Today while I was at home I decided to do some tests and compare it directly to my collection of EOS M's (1,3,5) and my T2I DSLR.

I took a section of my home office that I know my EOS M's always have trouble focusing - a plain almond colored file cabinet with low contrast to use as a test. Where the drawers are there is lots of horizontal lines because of the drawer openings. I also decided to shoot the vertical sides.

The M1,3,5 would not focus in the middle of the cabinet regardless of light. The T2I would focus if the light was bright but would hesitate a bit if it was dim. The iPhone would focus no matter how dim or bright it was.

Than I decided to do the edge of the cabinet. The M1 and 3 would focus but would hesitate. The M5 was much better, but the T2I being faster than all of them. The iPhone again would focus quickly no matter what.

So that raises an interesting question - if the iPhone can focus even in tough conditions - why cant the EOS M's.

If the camera companies are going to survive they are going to have to offer the same if not better performance than the smartphones.
 
T2I DSLR better than the M5?

Strange. My m50 outperforms my 70D for low light AF.

In all your comparisons you forgot to mention what lenses where used, and especially what was the maximum available aperture while focusing.

In low light i always use a fast lens even if i plan to shoot with a narrow aperture, just to give the AF all the light it needs. In cases i can bounce the light the M50 combined with a speedlite it blows every phone out of the water as it comes to IQ. Usually the high ISO noise - or the algorithm removing the noise as well as all the detail - of a phone in low light is so bad it isn't possible at all to determine if the subject is exactly in focus or not.

So..... what are you gonna do with that phone in low light.... add a speedlite on it? Use it's flash as a direct flash? Do whatever you like to do, it won't give the results a dedicated camera + dedicated lens + dedicated flash will give.
 
thunder storm said:
T2I DSLR better than the M5?

Strange. My m50 outperforms my 70D for low light AF.
Click to expand...
I had the M6 for a short time and compared the autofocus with a 350D. The low-light autofocus of the Canon M6 was very similar to the low-light autofocus of the 350D (terrible with f/3.5 or slower (15-45mm) ). So I totally agree with the original poster. Of course I turned the AF assist beam off because I don't want to annoy people/animals, etc.

A Panasonic Gx85 + kit lens has a much, much better low-light autofocus.

According to Canon, the autofocus of the M50 is 1EV better than the autofocus of the M5/M6. The live view autofocus of the SL3 is even 1.5EV better.
 
Last edited:
How do you know where the iPhone was focussing? can you set it to single point focus? If not, did you set the M5 (or others) to "auto" where the focussing will be what the camera decides and not you?

Alan
 
noisephotographer said:
thunder storm said:
T2I DSLR better than the M5?

Strange. My m50 outperforms my 70D for low light AF.
Click to expand...
I had the M6 for a short time and compared the autofocus with a 350D. The low-light autofocus of the Canon M6 was very similar to the low-light autofocus of the 350D (terrible with f/3.5 or slower (15-45mm) ). So I totally agree with the original poster.
Click to expand...
O.k.
Member said:
Of course I turned the AF assist beam off because I don't want to annoy people/animals, etc.

A Panasonic Gx85 + kit lens has a much, much better low-light autofocus.

According to Canon, the autofocus of the M50 is 1EV better than the autofocus of the M5/M6. The live view autofocus of the SL3 is even 1.5EV better.
Click to expand...
Ah cool, so - if we have to believe Canon - there are improvements. I like to hear that.
 
Don’t all phones have an advantage for being in focus and focus much faster due to their tiny sensor and the resulting huge depth of field?
 
Kinger said:
Don’t all phones have an advantage for being in focus and focus much faster due to their tiny sensor and the resulting huge depth of field?
Click to expand...
Yes. This is a point that seems to go right over the heads of people who are puzzled by the seeming AF superiority of phones in some situations. The laws of physics and optics can be very confusing to some people, apparently.
 
Alan Sh said:
How do you know where the iPhone was focussing? can you set it to single point focus? If not, did you set the M5 (or others) to "auto" where the focussing will be what the camera decides and not you?

Alan
Click to expand...
With the iPhone you tap on the screen where you want it to focus. Just like the EOS Ms. And it focuses really fast.

As for the comments about physics and lenses and other stuff - I understand it. But so what. DSLRs focus fast as well.

But the point I am making is if a smartphone can do it the standalone camera better be able to do it. I can show you pictures taken with a smartphone that are indistinguishable from one taken with a standalone camera.

I think the EOS M's are underpowered from a processing standpoint otherwise they would not sluggish.
 
fstopx2 said:
Alan Sh said:
How do you know where the iPhone was focussing? can you set it to single point focus? If not, did you set the M5 (or others) to "auto" where the focussing will be what the camera decides and not you?

Alan
Click to expand...
With the iPhone you tap on the screen where you want it to focus. Just like the EOS Ms. And it focuses really fast.

As for the comments about physics and lenses and other stuff - I understand it. But so what. DSLRs focus fast as well.

But the point I am making is if a smartphone can do it the standalone camera better be able to do it. I can show you pictures taken with a smartphone that are indistinguishable from one taken with a standalone camera.

I think the EOS M's are underpowered from a processing standpoint otherwise they would not sluggish.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a smart phone is all that you need then! 😉
 
Kinger said:
fstopx2 said:
Alan Sh said:
How do you know where the iPhone was focussing? can you set it to single point focus? If not, did you set the M5 (or others) to "auto" where the focussing will be what the camera decides and not you?

Alan
Click to expand...
With the iPhone you tap on the screen where you want it to focus. Just like the EOS Ms. And it focuses really fast.

As for the comments about physics and lenses and other stuff - I understand it. But so what. DSLRs focus fast as well.

But the point I am making is if a smartphone can do it the standalone camera better be able to do it. I can show you pictures taken with a smartphone that are indistinguishable from one taken with a standalone camera.

I think the EOS M's are underpowered from a processing standpoint otherwise they would not sluggish.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a smart phone is all that you need then! 😉
Click to expand...
That may indeed be coming at some point ;) .
 
fstopx2 said:
The M1,3,5 would not focus in the middle of the cabinet regardless of light. The T2I would focus if the light was bright but would hesitate a bit if it was dim. The iPhone would focus no matter how dim or bright it was.
Click to expand...
Agree. Your focusing experience mirror mine. Keep in mind that T2i can use IR AF assist with external flash, giving it ability to SEE & focus in the dark. Sadly, IR AF assist isn't compatible with any mirrorless technology. Its strictly for PDAF only DSLR.
fstopx2 said:
Than I decided to do the edge of the cabinet. The M1 and 3 would focus but would hesitate. The M5 was much better, but the T2I being faster than all of them. The iPhone again would focus quickly no matter what. So that raises an interesting question - if the iPhone can focus even in tough conditions - why cant the EOS M's. If the camera companies are going to survive they are going to have to offer the same if not better performance than the smartphones.
Click to expand...
Some thoughts:
This means:
  • Camera company are TOO LAZY to improve its Auto Mode against Smartphone
  • This means Smartphone will always have better: Out of Camera JPEG > dedicated camera
  • Camera company are TOO LAZY to hire Software Developer for Non-Stopping Firmware upgrades that is common in the smartphone. So while your 3yrs old Iphone 7 is still improving its IQ via software updates; your canon M1/M2/M3/M5 are already DEAD without anymore software improvements.
Combine smartphone trend eating away the sub $1000 market, and the new affordable near $1000 fullframe mirrorless (rumor sony A5, Nikon Z5). I don't think there is much room for either APS-C or M43 camera soon.

We are heading toward a BIFURCATION trends:

1. Portable Smartphone for casual consumer photo/videography

2. $1000ish Fullframe Mirrorless for 'serious' consumer or PRO in still & video

There is NO POINT in having anything in-between. Keep in mind that as good a Google Pixel 3 and Iphone Xs is in 2019. Imagine how much better they will be in 2020, 2021, 2022? Also keep in mind that $1400 Canon RP, and the rumor Sony A5, Nikon Z5 will further drive the Fullframe price ↓
 
007peter said:
fstopx2 said:
The M1,3,5 would not focus in the middle of the cabinet regardless of light. The T2I would focus if the light was bright but would hesitate a bit if it was dim. The iPhone would focus no matter how dim or bright it was.
Click to expand...
Agree. Your focusing experience mirror mine. Keep in mind that T2i can use IR AF assist with external flash, giving it ability to SEE & focus in the dark. Sadly, IR AF assist isn't compatible with any mirrorless technology. Its strictly for PDAF only DSLR.
007peter said:
Than I decided to do the edge of the cabinet. The M1 and 3 would focus but would hesitate. The M5 was much better, but the T2I being faster than all of them. The iPhone again would focus quickly no matter what. So that raises an interesting question - if the iPhone can focus even in tough conditions - why cant the EOS M's. If the camera companies are going to survive they are going to have to offer the same if not better performance than the smartphones.
Click to expand...
Some thoughts:
This means:
  • Camera company are TOO LAZY to improve its Auto Mode against Smartphone
  • This means Smartphone will always have better: Out of Camera JPEG > dedicated camera
  • Camera company are TOO LAZY to hire Software Developer for Non-Stopping Firmware upgrades that is common in the smartphone. So while your 3yrs old Iphone 7 is still improving its IQ via software updates; your canon M1/M2/M3/M5 are already DEAD without anymore software improvements.
Combine smartphone trend eating away the sub $1000 market, and the new affordable near $1000 fullframe mirrorless (rumor sony A5, Nikon Z5). I don't think there is much room for either APS-C or M43 camera soon.

We are heading toward a BIFURCATION trends:

1. Portable Smartphone for casual consumer photo/videography

2. $1000ish Fullframe Mirrorless for 'serious' consumer or PRO in still & video

There is NO POINT in having anything in-between.
Click to expand...
I disagree here. For stills aps-c cameras are still outperforming phones. You could argue you will need the lenses making the whole package more expensive than "$1000ish" though. And most consumers don't seem to care about a high output resolution.
007peter said:
Keep in mind that as good a Google Pixel 3 and Iphone Xs is in 2019. Imagine how much better they will be in 2020, 2021, 2022? Also keep in mind that $1400 Canon RP, and the rumor Sony A5, Nikon Z5 will further drive the Fullframe price ↓
Click to expand...
The full frame price is going down, and might getting down further. The "problem" (for consumers, not manufacturers) is the same doesn't count for the full frame glass. In this regard the camera + glass package for aps-c is still way more affordable than the camera + glass package for full frame.
 
Alastair Norcross said:
Kinger said:
Don’t all phones have an advantage for being in focus and focus much faster due to their tiny sensor and the resulting huge depth of field?
Click to expand...
Yes. This is a point that seems to go right over the heads of people who are puzzled by the seeming AF superiority of phones in some situations. The laws of physics and optics can be very confusing to some people, apparently.
Click to expand...
Ah yes. And then they want super real bokeh gaussian blur.
 
fstopx2 said:
I have a regular iPhone 7, not the 7 Plus with the dual cameras . Its about 3 years old I guess. The iPhone would focus no matter how dim or bright it was.

So that raises an interesting question - if the iPhone can focus even in tough conditions - why cant the EOS M's.

If the camera companies are going to survive they are going to have to offer the same if not better performance than the smartphones.
Click to expand...
Camera companies already do offer significantly better performance than smartphones. What is often overlooked is that people try to put the phone camera in the one situation where it can perform, then try to compare cameras only to that spec. So daylight, normal distance, non-moving subject, average viewing size.

Cameras with large sensors and interchangeable lenses can shoot in those conditions - but also can shoot wide, telephoto, wildlife, landscape, interior, low light, portrait, and a huge variety of different types of photography with a vast focal range...all of which are beyond the ability of phone cameras.

The reason your iPhone camera can seemingly focus well in nearly any situation is because it has an impossibly huge depth of field, by the fact that is has a tiny tiny sensor with a 7.29x crop factor, and uses a 3.99mm lens (for the standard lens - the 'telephoto' lens on the dual lens iPhones is a whopping 6.6mm). So even 'wide open' at F1.8, the 3.99mm lens with that tiny sensor shooting a subject 10 feet away has everything in focus from about 3.5 feet away to INFINITY. That's without even needing to refocus. It would be in focus without adjusting for anything from a bush 5 feet away from you to the sign you're shooting at 10 feet away to the building 1/2 mile away behind it. So is nailing the focus difficult for the phone? Obviously not...even with a fixed focus it would still have everything in focus. Technically, phone cameras are barely even 'autofocusing' at all.

The camera on the other hand has to be compatible with a wide range of needs - from those who may want everything in focus in a wide landscape shot to those who want very little in focus, with blurred foreground and background and a narrow DOF. It has to accommodate someone who wants to shoot closeups of bugs or flowers, to someone who wants to shoot landscapes, to someone who wants to shoot distant birds, to someone who wants to shoot their running dog to someone who wants to shoot portraits of people with creamy backgrounds - those who want to shoot things at 10mm to those who want to shoot things at 600mm. Those who want to use flash systems to control their lighting. It's the modularity and flexibility of the camera with a large sensor that is its selling point. For those only looking for a basic appliance that can take quick snapshots to be viewed on small screens and who could care less about details, phones can easily handle the workload...and indeed phone cameras should become the default camera for the masses who don't really care about photography.

Camera sales have been artificially high for well over a decade, because there were no other feasible solutions for the old P&S crowd...they ended up buying into digital cameras, then into larger sensors and DSLRs and mirrorless because they were told it was the only way to shoot indoors and in low light or of their moving children. Once phone cameras got good enough to deliver basic handling of snapshots in lower light or indoors, for a non-discerning average person who just wants the memory, then they could move away from dedicated cameras. And the camera market could contract back to what it was in SLR film days, and what it should have been all along - more specialized, capable tools for photographers and enthusiasts.
 
007peter said:
fstopx2 said:
The M1,3,5 would not focus in the middle of the cabinet regardless of light. The T2I would focus if the light was bright but would hesitate a bit if it was dim. The iPhone would focus no matter how dim or bright it was.
Click to expand...
Agree. Your focusing experience mirror mine. Keep in mind that T2i can use IR AF assist with external flash, giving it ability to SEE & focus in the dark. Sadly, IR AF assist isn't compatible with any mirrorless technology. Its strictly for PDAF only DSLR.
007peter said:
Than I decided to do the edge of the cabinet. The M1 and 3 would focus but would hesitate. The M5 was much better, but the T2I being faster than all of them. The iPhone again would focus quickly no matter what. So that raises an interesting question - if the iPhone can focus even in tough conditions - why cant the EOS M's. If the camera companies are going to survive they are going to have to offer the same if not better performance than the smartphones.
Click to expand...
Some thoughts:
This means:
  • Camera company are TOO LAZY to improve its Auto Mode against Smartphone
  • This means Smartphone will always have better: Out of Camera JPEG > dedicated camera
  • Camera company are TOO LAZY to hire Software Developer for Non-Stopping Firmware upgrades that is common in the smartphone. So while your 3yrs old Iphone 7 is still improving its IQ via software updates; your canon M1/M2/M3/M5 are already DEAD without anymore software improvements.
Combine smartphone trend eating away the sub $1000 market, and the new affordable near $1000 fullframe mirrorless (rumor sony A5, Nikon Z5). I don't think there is much room for either APS-C or M43 camera soon.

We are heading toward a BIFURCATION trends:

1. Portable Smartphone for casual consumer photo/videography

2. $1000ish Fullframe Mirrorless for 'serious' consumer or PRO in still & video

There is NO POINT in having anything in-between. Keep in mind that as good a Google Pixel 3 and Iphone Xs is in 2019. Imagine how much better they will be in 2020, 2021, 2022? Also keep in mind that $1400 Canon RP, and the rumor Sony A5, Nikon Z5 will further drive the Fullframe price ↓
Click to expand...
Shouting at us doesn't make what you say true.
 
fstopx2 said:
I have a regular iPhone 7, not the 7 Plus with the dual cameras . Its about 3 years old I guess. In the last year or so it has become my most used camera. For a bunch of reasons:

-Its always there and in my pocket.

-Its super convenient - I can post pictures instantly, share them with my family, whatever instantly.

-If I want to do post processing, its super convenient.

-It shoots very fast even under adverse conditions.

Today while I was at home I decided to do some tests and compare it directly to my collection of EOS M's (1,3,5) and my T2I DSLR.

I took a section of my home office that I know my EOS M's always have trouble focusing - a plain almond colored file cabinet with low contrast to use as a test. Where the drawers are there is lots of horizontal lines because of the drawer openings. I also decided to shoot the vertical sides.

The M1,3,5 would not focus in the middle of the cabinet regardless of light. The T2I would focus if the light was bright but would hesitate a bit if it was dim. The iPhone would focus no matter how dim or bright it was.

Than I decided to do the edge of the cabinet. The M1 and 3 would focus but would hesitate. The M5 was much better, but the T2I being faster than all of them. The iPhone again would focus quickly no matter what.

So that raises an interesting question - if the iPhone can focus even in tough conditions - why cant the EOS M's.

If the camera companies are going to survive they are going to have to offer the same if not better performance than the smartphones.
Click to expand...
My iPhone is better than my M6 at focusing on blank cabinets, blank walls, blank skies, blank everything. Doesn't matter very much to me, the M6 takes a better photo of not only the cabinet, but most things — still and especially moving (unless you like blur a lot). How well does the phone camera handle a flying cabinet, for instance, LOL?
 
I think there is opportunity still for OEMs with 1" sensor cameras. Sony, Panasonic and even Canon have compelling platforms there, from super-compact to vlogging camera to the outstanding Panasonic zoom cameras like FZ1000.
 
zackiedawg said:
fstopx2 said:
I have a regular iPhone 7, not the 7 Plus with the dual cameras . Its about 3 years old I guess. The iPhone would focus no matter how dim or bright it was.

So that raises an interesting question - if the iPhone can focus even in tough conditions - why cant the EOS M's.

If the camera companies are going to survive they are going to have to offer the same if not better performance than the smartphones.
Click to expand...
is nailing the focus difficult for the phone? Obviously not...even with a fixed focus it would still have everything in focus. Technically, phone cameras are barely even 'autofocusing' at all.
Click to expand...
Funny fstopx2 doesn't respond at all here. If you are having a discussion or conversation, and someone comes up with a very good point, it would be polite to respond on such a good point in stead of continuing your monologue.
 
zackiedawg said:
The reason your iPhone camera can seemingly focus well in nearly any situation is because it has an impossibly huge depth of field, by the fact that is has a tiny tiny sensor with a 7.29x crop factor, and uses a 3.99mm lens (for the standard lens - the 'telephoto' lens on the dual lens iPhones is a whopping 6.6mm). So even 'wide open' at F1.8, the 3.99mm lens with that tiny sensor shooting a subject 10 feet away has everything in focus from about 3.5 feet away to INFINITY. That's without even needing to refocus. It would be in focus without adjusting for anything from a bush 5 feet away from you to the sign you're shooting at 10 feet away to the building 1/2 mile away behind it. So is nailing the focus difficult for the phone? Obviously not...even with a fixed focus it would still have everything in focus. Technically, phone cameras are barely even 'autofocusing' at all.
Click to expand...
The Huawei P30 Pro has a telephoto lens, which gives a thinner DOF, so this phone has to focus.

Tele: 8Mp sensor, folded optics with f/3.4 aperture lens, OIS, 125mm-equivalent focal length

from the dxomark review:

https://www.dxomark.com/huawei-p30-pro-camera-review/
zackiedawg said:
zackiedawg said:
Another point of criticism is the tele-camera’s autofocus system, which is much slower than on the main camera. With the tele-cam engaged, the AF can take between one and two seconds to lock on. It’s also worth keeping in mind that the tele-cam has a minimum focus distance of approximately 1.7m.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
So.....

A phone focuses fast only if it does not have to focus at all. When it does have to focus it is terribly slow.

--
If your facts are different we could save the peace just by calling it copy to copy variation.
 
Last edited:
007peter said:
fstopx2 said:
The M1,3,5 would not focus in the middle of the cabinet regardless of light. The T2I would focus if the light was bright but would hesitate a bit if it was dim. The iPhone would focus no matter how dim or bright it was.
Click to expand...
Agree. Your focusing experience mirror mine. Keep in mind that T2i can use IR AF assist with external flash, giving it ability to SEE & focus in the dark. Sadly, IR AF assist isn't compatible with any mirrorless technology. Its strictly for PDAF only DSLR.
007peter said:
Than I decided to do the edge of the cabinet. The M1 and 3 would focus but would hesitate. The M5 was much better, but the T2I being faster than all of them. The iPhone again would focus quickly no matter what. So that raises an interesting question - if the iPhone can focus even in tough conditions - why cant the EOS M's. If the camera companies are going to survive they are going to have to offer the same if not better performance than the smartphones.
Click to expand...
Some thoughts:
This means:
  • Camera company are TOO LAZY to improve its Auto Mode against Smartphone
Click to expand...
All this shouting hardly constitutes thoughts and the term lazy is absurd as the phone sellers have a massive budget to implement changes and a ready made platform in the phone operating system to write the stuff in, whilst the camera industry have a multitude of bespoke software platforms supported by low turnover, that is if they do not write it in binary.
007peter said:
  • This means Smartphone will always have better: Out of Camera JPEG > dedicated camera
  • Camera company are TOO LAZY to hire Software Developer for Non-Stopping Firmware upgrades that is common in the smartphone. So while your 3yrs old Iphone 7 is still improving its IQ via software updates; your canon M1/M2/M3/M5 are already DEAD without anymore software improvements.
Click to expand...
Again there are probably severe budgetary restraints on development and shortages of programmers for the specific camera firmware systems.
007peter said:
Combine smartphone trend eating away the sub $1000 market, and the new affordable near $1000 fullframe mirrorless (rumor sony A5, Nikon Z5). I don't think there is much room for either APS-C or M43 camera soon.

We are heading toward a BIFURCATION trends:

1. Portable Smartphone for casual consumer photo/videography

2. $1000ish Fullframe Mirrorless for 'serious' consumer or PRO in still & video

There is NO POINT in having anything in-between. Keep in mind that as good a Google Pixel 3 and Iphone Xs is in 2019. Imagine how much better they will be in 2020, 2021, 2022? Also keep in mind that $1400 Canon RP, and the rumor Sony A5, Nikon Z5 will further drive the Fullframe price ↓
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Marco Nero
Goldfields - with EOS M6 + iPhone 13 ProMax (PICS).
2
Replies
29
Views
1K
speedtriple99
S
T
Which Canon to replace EOS M5?
Replies
19
Views
1K
beagle1
B
MJ_Photo38
  • User review User review
Long term-ish review of the Olympus OMD E-M5 mark II
Replies
17
Views
15K
MJ_Photo38
MJ_Photo38
S
Newbie MEGA Guide F2.8 vs F4, Zoom vs. Prime, GAS and YOUTUBE
Replies
10
Views
646
jthomas39
J
I
Upgrading to Canon EOS M200 from Rebel T2i/550D.
Replies
3
Views
846
Martin_99
M

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top