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Oh my gosh! Latest info from my dealer.

Go to last post
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0205/02051503canonpatent.asp

I don't see this as practical for a high speed camera.

Steven
mike_botelho said:
Maob said:
I had the very same impression with my local shop. By the way:

1. He knew about the full color CMOS from Canon from a presentation
given to all national Canon dealers (Foveon like according to him,
check about the Patent granted to Canon);
Click to expand...
Now that's an interesting twist. A Foveon-like CMOS chip from
Canon?! Could that be where the 12MP figure comes from? A
Foveon-style chip would theoretically produce approximately
12MP-type resolution with only 6MP worth of sensor sites. This
might allow for 6MP images at quick FPS while also allowing for res
comparable to 12MP with conventional CMOS sensors. It also would,
techinically, not superceed the 1Ds in the sense that the 1Ds
actually has 11MP of sensor sites.

I never even considered this type of option. Certainly another
possible explanation for how this would be plausible.

Mike

P.S. - Claims for Foveon chips, I believe, indicate something like
3x resolution, so I suppose it's possible that this could be a 4MP
Fovean style chip. Though, I believe, that would work out a little
more like resolution comparable to 8MP. I think a 6MP Foveon chip
would be more desirable, obviously, though it would be more of a
competitor for the 1Ds once again.

Makes me wonder if the sales person that came up with this info
heard about a '12MP camera' or 'resolution comparable to 12MP'?
Click to expand...
--
---
New and Updated!!!
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/a_study_in_light
 
Whether it's applicable to a high-speed camera or not, it's another interesting glimpse into what the future may hold.

Mike
Steven Noyes said:
I don't see this as practical for a high speed camera.

Steven
mike_botelho said:
Maob said:
I had the very same impression with my local shop. By the way:

1. He knew about the full color CMOS from Canon from a presentation
given to all national Canon dealers (Foveon like according to him,
check about the Patent granted to Canon);
Click to expand...
Now that's an interesting twist. A Foveon-like CMOS chip from
Canon?! Could that be where the 12MP figure comes from? A
Foveon-style chip would theoretically produce approximately
12MP-type resolution with only 6MP worth of sensor sites. This
might allow for 6MP images at quick FPS while also allowing for res
comparable to 12MP with conventional CMOS sensors. It also would,
techinically, not superceed the 1Ds in the sense that the 1Ds
actually has 11MP of sensor sites.

I never even considered this type of option. Certainly another
possible explanation for how this would be plausible.

Mike

P.S. - Claims for Foveon chips, I believe, indicate something like
3x resolution, so I suppose it's possible that this could be a 4MP
Fovean style chip. Though, I believe, that would work out a little
more like resolution comparable to 8MP. I think a 6MP Foveon chip
would be more desirable, obviously, though it would be more of a
competitor for the 1Ds once again.

Makes me wonder if the sales person that came up with this info
heard about a '12MP camera' or 'resolution comparable to 12MP'?
Click to expand...
--
---
New and Updated!!!
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/a_study_in_light
Click to expand...
 
Steven Noyes said:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0205/02051503canonpatent.asp

I don't see this as practical for a high speed camera.

Steven
Click to expand...
As I wrote in another thread, this approach reminds me of DLP by Texas Instruments (for Movie and Home theather projectors). With it you get a 50 fps image composed of the flickering of three (sometimes more than that) colored lights (filtered through a rotating circular filter) on the DMD micromirros chip.

If Canon Managed to bring their patent to production, then they could COMPLETELY ALTER the distribution of the not-any-more-Bayer pattern and CHANGE the resolution of the image by grouping more pixels (since they could read all the three fundamental colors for each pixel).

At least, I think so.
 
Jim-H said:
I remember seeing this discussed before and was told with the
current design it is not possible.

Before you can do any cropping, you must first have the full raw
data from the sensor. If the sensor could somehow be divided into
sections then I suppose it would be possible. As you may have
guessed, I'm no EE.
Click to expand...
If Canon were smart they would design this new camera around the 5/4 format ratio (sensor, mirror, finder, body, etc.) which is a final printed output ratio closer to what is used by most. Let the user crop to 3/2 in PS if that is what they want. Put some 3/2 lines in the viewfinder I guess if this would help. This would be a much more efficient use of the expensive sensor area, and better use of the lens image.
 
Laupi (the guy who predicted the 10D correctly) says that there will be an announcement in about 1-2 weeks.

Who knows, maybe he's right again.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/46501#393027

Jonathan
Thomas Gardner said:
Just got this as I was ordering a 85mm f/1.8.

1D replacement will be 12 mega-pixels and FF coming out at it's
current street price of $3,500.00.

He doesn't know what the frame rate will be or if it's gonna be
CMOS or CCD but I'm betting it's a CMOS like the 1Ds.

Suppose to be out about Thanksgiving time.

He'll have printed brochures in two or three weeks. I'll check
back then to see if he's able to give me any more details.

I asked how reliable the info was and he said 85%.

Woo Hoo! I'm off to the emergency room to get some heart pills:-)

Ooooooh my gosh!

--
If you don't want to believe me, ignore me:-)
Click to expand...
--
Jonathan Lefcourt
1D Flora and Fauna from the Florida Keys
l http://www.pbase.com/jlefcourt/flora__fauna_from_the_florida_keys
 
TI has never paid me my royalties for using my intials for that, either. ;)
Maob said:
As I wrote in another thread, this approach reminds me of DLP by
Texas Instruments (for Movie and Home theather projectors).
Click to expand...
--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
 
I checked it out. 2 weeks ago, he said an announcement would be coming in 3 weeks. Evidence is mounting. And the news may be soon. Has this interrupted anyone's sleep patterns yet?

Mike
Jonathan Lefcourt said:
Who knows, maybe he's right again.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/46501#393027

Jonathan
Thomas Gardner said:
Just got this as I was ordering a 85mm f/1.8.

1D replacement will be 12 mega-pixels and FF coming out at it's
current street price of $3,500.00.

He doesn't know what the frame rate will be or if it's gonna be
CMOS or CCD but I'm betting it's a CMOS like the 1Ds.

Suppose to be out about Thanksgiving time.

He'll have printed brochures in two or three weeks. I'll check
back then to see if he's able to give me any more details.

I asked how reliable the info was and he said 85%.

Woo Hoo! I'm off to the emergency room to get some heart pills:-)

Ooooooh my gosh!

--
If you don't want to believe me, ignore me:-)
Click to expand...
--
Jonathan Lefcourt
1D Flora and Fauna from the Florida Keys
l http://www.pbase.com/jlefcourt/flora__fauna_from_the_florida_keys
Click to expand...
 
Adam-T said:
...........Will come in a Free LowePro nature trekker and two 90%
off vouchers on any Canon lenses ..

Surely you don't believe THAT Thomas? ..

A few Flaws in that dealers imagination ---

1:- It's higher rez than the 1DS which is twice the price
2:- it'd have to be 8FPS to be a 1D replacement + Full frame = Very
Costly
3:- How would it shoot at 8FPS with 12Mp ? - a belt pack fireWire
3.5" hard disk? because there is no way that current flash tech can
handle that load..

I'm not disputing that the dealer told you this (he probably
believes in Klingons also) but the only thing I can see that is 85%
of that is the negative probablility - if there were such a beast
(12Mp Full frame 8FPS) it would cost far far more than the current
1DS
Click to expand...
Well, that dealer's brother must live in Houston because I heard much the same thing from the salesman in my local store except that he claimed it was the 10D's replacement and he gave no price but said that it'd be "reasonably priced". He did say that it'd be 12 megapixels though.
 
Pearl Rider said:
Well, that dealer's brother must live in Houston because I heard
much the same thing from the salesman in my local store except that
he claimed it was the 10D's replacement and he gave no price but
said that it'd be "reasonably priced". He did say that it'd be 12
megapixels though.
Click to expand...
Lol, more variations. ;-)

Well, this would certainly raise the same argument in regard to a 10D replacement offering better resolution than the 1Ds.

Mike
 
Thomas Gardner said:
Also, couldn't Canon include a sofeware switch to limit the area of
the sensor, so you could get both a FF sensor image at twelve
mega-pixels, 3FPS, like the 1Ds and then flip the switch and have a
reduced 1.3X crop at five/six mega-pixels, 8 fps? Of course
keeping the tank like build of the current 1D.

Would that be so far fetched?
Click to expand...
It is doable, but the hard part is getting the viewfinder ergonomics to work. You may scoff and say that is a stupid problem, but for a professional level camera, it is a huge gargantuan big deal. One can imagine a Sigma-SD9 style "sports finder" focusing screen that one would install for use in 1.3x crop mode.

Kodak already has software crops in the DCS-14n .

-Z-
 
Yeah, like all the D60 owners who sold out before they could get a 10D, and 10D owners who sold out before they knew what a DRebel was lacking. ;-)

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, or something like that.

Don

--
Modernized Quotations:
'That, and a buck-seventy-five, will get you a cup of coffee.'
 
Thomas Gardner said:
Just got this as I was ordering a 85mm f/1.8.
1D replacement will be 12 mega-pixels and FF coming out at it's
current street price of $3,500.00.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm...
:Got to search threads regarding Leica R and Schneider Digitar lenses
to Canon EOS body :
 
Thomas Gardner said:
AMac said:
Much as I'd applaud anything that knocked the 1Ds's price down, I
don't predict Canon will supercede that camera with anything for a
good while yet. And I tend to suspect the same is true with the 1D.

Why? Because their both excellently specced cameras that Canon can
well afford to let ride with the market.
Click to expand...
Now look at it from a business manufacturing view point.

By making a 12 mega-pixel, FF sensor that has a software adjustable
sensor, you'll be able to combine two production lines, to
manufacture one sensor body (consentration of efforts), that sells
to three different markets. You'll only have to make one type of
sensor, not two and concentrate all your development/marketing
efforts on one sensor body. You'd sell this one sensor body to
PJ/SJ, studios and well heeled hobbiests.
Click to expand...
Yep, and if they priced it at $1000, they could sell it to the 300D crowd as well. Then they'd only have the hassles of selling 1 DSLR instead of four. LOL.

Why would Canon want to cover all market segement bases in a single package? The strategy they have in place is clearly one of striation and targeting. Thus forcing people to buy an entirely new camera if they have only moderately different needs. If you want a fast, weather sealed PJ cam, get the 1D. But if you also want a large res cam and you must have the pro build, so sorry, you need to stump up for the 1Ds.Equally, if you've got the 10D, but you have a bad need for AF and buffer speed, so sorry, you need to buy the 1D.

The perfect crime, really.

I'm sure there's more than enough "production level" similarities between the 1D and 1Ds already for Canon to be saving considerable coin on that line. Thus, I doubt they'd ever roll them into one package.

--
Cheers

Andrew McGregor
 
Jonathan Lefcourt said:
Laupi (the guy who predicted the 10D correctly) says that there
will be an announcement in about 1-2 weeks.

Who knows, maybe he's right again.
Click to expand...
The next time you talk to him, ask him how many snow falls we'll have this winter. ;-)
 
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