Fill flash speedlight for Nikon DSLR recommendations

First of all, lets establish that Guide-Numbers are often exaggerated and applicable to indoor-room w/ white-walls/ceiling so its power can be enhanced by natural bouncing.

When outdoors (or large/dark rooms) only about half the rated-GN can be depended upon.

Guide-Numbers are further confusing when often quoted at "tele" settings on those w/ zoom-heads, (confusing when compared to normal 28-35mm angle-output).

Guide-Numbers are also often quoted at different ISO's.

BOTTOM LINE ... be WEARY/CAREFUL of quoted Guide-Numbers.

*****************

I don't know which specific Godox you had in mind so this will apply to the Nikon SB500/700, they have (possibly exaggerated) GN's of 78 & 92.

I assume you realize the your max shutter-speed w/ flash is 1/250s, (because of inherent design/limitation of Focal-Plane shutters).

This will thus dictate your required exposure in (ambient) SUN-light to f/11.

So outdoors in (mid-day & no-clouds) SUN-light, the normal/correct exposure is 1/250s @ f/11. (ala "Sunny-16" rule)

The formula for the MAX distance is GN / f/stop = 78/92 / 11 = 7' w/SB-500 or 8.3' w/SB-700

Again this is assuming the GN's (78/92) are indeed valid outdoors, but considering you don't always need 1:1 ratio, these may still be valid distances.

Note that built-in flashes are usually much lower power and thus only usable to 3-4' in SUN-light.

Because of these severe distance/range limitations, many professionals use REFLECTORS in SUN-light, (albeit this is much easier done w/ assistants to hold them)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UR9AS9...&pd_rd_r=130f9bea-5336-11e9-a105-8d4a86831872

*****************

Just FYI, there are cameras w/ "LEAF" shutters that do not have the inherent shutter-speed limitations and thus can sync up to 1/4000s, (resulting in possible f/2.8 in SUN-light). These allow much greater/longer range-distances in SUN-light.

Using your same (78/92) GN's, the theoretical max distances thus becomes 28' (SB-500 & 33' (SB-700). However I also have to admit that since 1/4000s is shorter than the flash-duration, the actual max-distance will be less that the theoretical.

Note that higher shutter-speeds can also be used to "darken" the backgrounds in SUN-light, (ala 1/4000s @ f/ 11 results in background being 4-stops darker -- w/ closer subject still properly exposed by the flash)

Professionals preferred leaf-shutters for the additional flexibility, but they are now only available in FIXED-lens cameras, (or "BRIDGE" cameras like RX/FZ).

I can personally attest that the built-in flash on FZ-1000 is usable to 20', (in sunlight), because it indeed has a "leaf" shutter.

PhotoTeach2 said:

First of all...

Click to expand...

Well... first of all allow me to thank you for a very informative post!

I had no idea how to calculate the max distance that each flash could achieve using the GN's, I had been relying purely on what others have written elsewhere based on their own experiences (which I believe were based on trial and error as opposed to any sort of theory!).

Regarding the max shutter speed with flash being 1/250, my understanding was that I would be able (should I choose/want to) to set the camera to auto FP and I would then be able to utilise HSS, allowing me to break that 1/250 barrier? I believe both Nikon units as well as the Godox ones allow that. It's not as I mentioned in my first post my primary objective, which is to balance ambient and fill, I ask merely out of interest.

The Godox unit I have looked at is the V860II(N). I note a GN of 60, so to follow your example above... max distance would be (approx.) 5 1/2'. Indulge me if you would, these max distances were calculated using an aperture of f11, if I were to use f6.3, the max distance for the V860II(N) would be (60/5.6=) 10.7'?

The Godox TT350 appears too small for my needs with a GN of 36. The GN numbers for the Nikon (78 & 92) appear very high in comparison (I note your word of caution when trusting the GN's).

All of this prompted me to get my camera out with my favourite travel lens on and work out some distances. Essentially, I ended up around 10' from my subjects as a maximum distance and 7' as the closest (picture a family of four, two adults and two young children standing in front of <insert famous landmark>). This led me to consider the smallest aperture that I would normally utilise and that would be f8, more often than not I would use f5.6/f6.3. So a max distance of 10' with an aperture of f8 would require a GN of 80 I believe.

A GN of 80 would rule out the Godox V860II(N) which is dissappointing, unless of course I were to shoot more along the lines of f5.6, or could I up the ISO from 100 to 200 and steal an extra stop there?

I would like to go for the Godox, for no other reason than the cost is less than half that of the Nikon's.

DagonKhan said:

Regarding the max shutter speed with flash being 1/250, my understanding was that I would be able (should I choose/want to) to set the camera to auto FP and I would then be able to utilise HSS, allowing me to break that 1/250 barrier? I believe both Nikon units as well as the Godox ones allow that. It's not as I mentioned in my first post my primary objective, which is to balance ambient and fill, I ask merely out of interest.

The Godox unit I have looked at is the V860II(N). I note a GN of 60, so to follow your example above... max distance would be (approx.) 5 1/2'. Indulge me if you would, these max distances were calculated using an aperture of f11, if I were to use f6.3, the max distance for the V860II(N) would be (60/5.6=) 10.7'?

Click to expand...

That was a good post by PhotoTeach2. For future reference, here's a blog post that goes through similar calculations and has a couple photo examples. It also looks like you got the hang of Guide Number calculations thanks to PhotoTeach2.

However, note Godox says their flash has a Guide Number of 60 meter @ 1/1 output (full power), 200mm (flash head zoom position). This means the flash beam only covers the same scene as a 200mm lens - that's pretty small when you're standing 10 ft away.

OEM flashes (Canon, Nikon, Sony) usually have a table in the owner's manual that shows Guide Numbers for various zoom head positions. My old Sony flash has a GN of 42 meters @ 1/1, 105mm zoom, I see in the table the GN drops to 25 meters @ 1/1, 35mm zoom.

I haven't seen a similar table for Godox flashes - it really bugs me that Godox (and many other flash manufacturers) don't publish this information.

HSS is a different flash mode that results in drastic decreases in Guide Number. My same Sony flash (GN42) has another table that gives HSS GN for various shutter speeds. For example, here are some GNs at 105mm zoom in HSS mode:

• 1/250 sec: 16.4 meter
• 1/1000 sec: 8.2 meter
• 1/2000 sec: 5.8 meter

The GN = f-number x distance equation is pretty simple but finding the value of the Guide Number is the tough part. I suppose this is why so many people just use trial and error.

--
Lance H

lehill said:

That was a good post by PhotoTeach2. For future reference, here's a blog post that goes through similar calculations and has a couple photo examples. It also looks like you got the hang of Guide Number calculations thanks to PhotoTeach2.

However, note Godox says their flash has a Guide Number of 60 meter @ 1/1 output (full power), 200mm (flash head zoom position). This means the flash beam only covers the same scene as a 200mm lens - that's pretty small when you're standing 10 ft away.

OEM flashes (Canon, Nikon, Sony) usually have a table in the owner's manual that shows Guide Numbers for various zoom head positions. My old Sony flash has a GN of 42 meters @ 1/1, 105mm zoom, I see in the table the GN drops to 25 meters @ 1/1, 35mm zoom.

I haven't seen a similar table for Godox flashes - it really bugs me that Godox (and many other flash manufacturers) don't publish this information.

HSS is a different flash mode that results in drastic decreases in Guide Number. My same Sony flash (GN42) has another table that gives HSS GN for various shutter speeds. For example, here are some GNs at 105mm zoom in HSS mode:

• 1/250 sec: 16.4 meter
• 1/1000 sec: 8.2 meter
• 1/2000 sec: 5.8 meter

The GN = f-number x distance equation is pretty simple but finding the value of the Guide Number is the tough part. I suppose this is why so many people just use trial and error.

Click to expand...

I've just realised that I've made a few errors in my previous reply. The first mistake was:- "...if I were to use f6.3, the max distance for the V860II(N) would be (60/5.6=) 10.7'?", clearly I would have to use f5.6 and not f6.3!

The second and third mistakes were my assumptions concerning the GN of 60 for the Godox. As you point out it is for 200mm and just as bad I mixed metres for feet! I've since been scouring the internet for some indication of GN's for the Godox V860II(N) and I came across this post :- "First thing I noticed was that flash power wasn't constant at each zoom step. My trial results were: zoom 200 – GN 60, zoom 135 – GN 59,6, zoom 105 – GN 57,6, zoom 80 – GN 55,6, zoom 70 – GN 53,7, zoom 50 – GN 51,9, zoom 35 – GN 50,1, zoom 28 – GN 48,4 zoom 24 – GN 46,8 zoom 20 – GN 45,2".

So (and please tell me if I'm wrong!), if I am aiming for a flash that will work at f8 at 10', I will require one with a GN of at least 80. Moreover, if my desired lens is a 35mm (50mm equivalent as I have a crop sensor), I need that GN80 at 35mm (or is it 50mm?). Looking at the paragraph above, the Godox V860II(N) has a GN of 50.1 at 35mm and a GN of 53.7 at 50mm. Using the lower figure (so as to err on the side of caution), I believe I would first need to convert the 50.1 metres into feet, so 50.1 x 3.28 = 164'. 164' divided by f8 would give me a max distance of 20.5'. Even at f16 the max distance would be 10.25', so I believe the Godox V860II(N) would comfortably cover my requirements.

lehill said:

DagonKhan said:

Regarding the max shutter speed with flash being 1/250, my understanding was that I would be able (should I choose/want to) to set the camera to auto FP and I would then be able to utilise HSS, allowing me to break that 1/250 barrier? I believe both Nikon units as well as the Godox ones allow that. It's not as I mentioned in my first post my primary objective, which is to balance ambient and fill, I ask merely out of interest.

The Godox unit I have looked at is the V860II(N). I note a GN of 60, so to follow your example above... max distance would be (approx.) 5 1/2'. Indulge me if you would, these max distances were calculated using an aperture of f11, if I were to use f6.3, the max distance for the V860II(N) would be (60/5.6=) 10.7'?

Click to expand...

That was a good post by PhotoTeach2. For future reference, here's a blog post that goes through similar calculations and has a couple photo examples. It also looks like you got the hang of Guide Number calculations thanks to PhotoTeach2.

However, note Godox says their flash has a Guide Number of 60 meter @ 1/1 output (full power), 200mm (flash head zoom position). This means the flash beam only covers the same scene as a 200mm lens - that's pretty small when you're standing 10 ft away.

OEM flashes (Canon, Nikon, Sony) usually have a table in the owner's manual that shows Guide Numbers for various zoom head positions. My old Sony flash has a GN of 42 meters @ 1/1, 105mm zoom, I see in the table the GN drops to 25 meters @ 1/1, 35mm zoom.

I haven't seen a similar table for Godox flashes - it really bugs me that Godox (and many other flash manufacturers) don't publish this information.

Click to expand...

Yes ... exactly what I meant when I stated "comparison" is extremely difficult because some use TELE power (for their confusing advantage) instead of WA and different ISO's.

BTW: I forgot to mention that they can also be either METERS or (3X more) FEET. There is nothing wrong with this since different countries do indeed use either M or Ft, but it still means you have to be VERY CAREFUL when CALCULATING-RANGE to keep consistent when comparing. (you mentioned a Godox GN of 60-METERS above which would be 180-FEET -- which again is ok, BUT ... it is NOT OK to only list the TELE # w/out the "standard" WA power)

lehill said:

HSS is a different flash mode that results in drastic decreases in Guide Number.

Click to expand...

I consider HSS to be a HUGE "S-C-A-M" that really only has one valid purpose in that it does allow (professionals) to use f/2.8 (DOF) in SUN-light (@ 1/4000s) w/ flash AT VERY SHORT RANGE ONLY, (unless using a very powerful/expensive external strobe).

HSS does NOT allow longer-range SUN-light fill-flash, (as a "LEAF" shutter would w/ higher native flash-sync speed).

The max range at higher shutter-speeds above "native" (ala 1/250s) is actually LESS.

You also do NOT gain the "action-stopping" advantage of strobes since the HSS flash-duration is (relatively L-O-N-G) 1/250s, (compared to 1/1000 to 1/50,000s of normal strobe).

lehill said:

My same Sony flash (GN42) has another table that gives HSS GN for various shutter speeds. For example, here are some GNs at 105mm zoom

Click to expand...

Again, misleading since it only apples at the 105 (TELE) instead of standard (WA) FL.

lehill said:

in HSS mode:

• 1/250 sec: 16.4 meter
• 1/1000 sec: 8.2 meter
• 1/2000 sec: 5.8 meter
• 1/4000 sec: 4.1 meter
• 1/8000 sec: 2.9 meter

Click to expand...

YES ... Notice the drastic decrease in (effective) GN as Shutter-Speeds are increased since the strobe power is also decreased (the same percentage as "ambient" light) at increasing SS's.

lehill said:

The GN = f-number x distance equation is pretty simple but finding the value of the Guide Number is the tough part.

Click to expand...

YEP ... watch for ...

Meters vs Feet

Different ISO's

Different zoom-head positions (WA used to be "standard" for all strobes).

I do agree that the (max) zoom rating is indeed extremely important ... but NOT at the expense of not also showing the "standard" WA power).

But also don't forget that they ALL are OFTEN exaggerated and not applicable to OUTDOORS, (where you may need the most power).

lehill said:

I suppose this is why so many people just use trial and error.

Click to expand...

There used to be a running JOKE about Paul C. Duff's "White Lighting" flash units (as "White-LIES") since he claimed he got DOUBLE the power from his strobes than his rated W/S indicated.

(because they were "mono"-lights and thus did not suffer power-loss from long cables from capacitors to flash-bulbs)

There are indeed loses in cables but most professionals felt the loss was not as great as he (self) promoted when he labeled 800w/s units as "1600".

DagonKhan said:

lehill said:

That was a good post by PhotoTeach2. For future reference, here's a blog post that goes through similar calculations and has a couple photo examples. It also looks like you got the hang of Guide Number calculations thanks to PhotoTeach2.

However, note Godox says their flash has a Guide Number of 60 meter @ 1/1 output (full power), 200mm (flash head zoom position). This means the flash beam only covers the same scene as a 200mm lens - that's pretty small when you're standing 10 ft away.

OEM flashes (Canon, Nikon, Sony) usually have a table in the owner's manual that shows Guide Numbers for various zoom head positions. My old Sony flash has a GN of 42 meters @ 1/1, 105mm zoom, I see in the table the GN drops to 25 meters @ 1/1, 35mm zoom.

I haven't seen a similar table for Godox flashes - it really bugs me that Godox (and many other flash manufacturers) don't publish this information.

HSS is a different flash mode that results in drastic decreases in Guide Number. My same Sony flash (GN42) has another table that gives HSS GN for various shutter speeds. For example, here are some GNs at 105mm zoom in HSS mode:

• 1/250 sec: 16.4 meter
• 1/1000 sec: 8.2 meter
• 1/2000 sec: 5.8 meter
• 1/4000 sec: 4.1 meter
• 1/8000 sec: 2.7 meter

The GN = f-number x distance equation is pretty simple but finding the value of the Guide Number is the tough part. I suppose this is why so many people just use trial and error.

Click to expand...

I've just realised that I've made a few errors in my previous reply. The first mistake was:- "...if I were to use f6.3, the max distance for the V860II(N) would be (60/5.6=) 10.7'?", clearly I would have to use f5.6 and not f6.3!

Click to expand...

But this (and everything below) is already fatally flawed since HSS does NOT allow those (native SS) GN. Refer to the de-rated numbers above for 1/1000s (which you would have to use @ f/5.6 in SUN-light).

NOTE that you can indeed use a 2-stop ND filter to allow f/5.6 ... BUT again with an equal loss in GN so NO real "range-distance" advantage.

The ONLY way to get what you want is with a "LEAF" shutter where you can actually use higher SS, (and your initial calculations towards f/5.6 and even to f/2.8).

"max distance for the V860II(N) would be (60/5.6=) 10.7'" (w/ LEAF shutter)

And YES ... I am upset that their is such a scarcity of leaf shutters when they used to be very prominent. That is one specific reason I like my FZ-1000.

DagonKhan said:

The second and third mistakes were my assumptions concerning the GN of 60 for the Godox. As you point out it is for 200mm and just as bad I mixed metres for feet! I've since been scouring the internet for some indication of GN's for the Godox V860II(N) and I came across this post :- "First thing I noticed was that flash power wasn't constant at each zoom step. My trial results were: zoom 200 – GN 60, zoom 135 – GN 59,6, zoom 105 – GN 57,6, zoom 80 – GN 55,6, zoom 70 – GN 53,7, zoom 50 – GN 51,9, zoom 35 – GN 50,1, zoom 28 – GN 48,4 zoom 24 – GN 46,8 zoom 20 – GN 45,2".

So (and please tell me if I'm wrong!), if I am aiming for a flash that will work at f8 at 10', I will require one with a GN of at least 80. Moreover, if my desired lens is a 35mm (50mm equivalent as I have a crop sensor), I need that GN80 at 35mm (or is it 50mm?). Looking at the paragraph above, the Godox V860II(N) has a GN of 50.1 at 35mm and a GN of 53.7 at 50mm. Using the lower figure (so as to err on the side of caution), I believe I would first need to convert the 50.1 metres into feet, so 50.1 x 3.28 = 164'. 164' divided by f8 would give me a max distance of 20.5'. Even at f16 the max distance would be 10.25', so I believe the Godox V860II(N) would comfortably cover my requirements.

Click to expand...

PhotoTeach2 said:

DagonKhan said:

lehill said:

That was a good post by PhotoTeach2. For future reference, here's a blog post that goes through similar calculations and has a couple photo examples. It also looks like you got the hang of Guide Number calculations thanks to PhotoTeach2.

However, note Godox says their flash has a Guide Number of 60 meter @ 1/1 output (full power), 200mm (flash head zoom position). This means the flash beam only covers the same scene as a 200mm lens - that's pretty small when you're standing 10 ft away.

OEM flashes (Canon, Nikon, Sony) usually have a table in the owner's manual that shows Guide Numbers for various zoom head positions. My old Sony flash has a GN of 42 meters @ 1/1, 105mm zoom, I see in the table the GN drops to 25 meters @ 1/1, 35mm zoom.

I haven't seen a similar table for Godox flashes - it really bugs me that Godox (and many other flash manufacturers) don't publish this information.

HSS is a different flash mode that results in drastic decreases in Guide Number. My same Sony flash (GN42) has another table that gives HSS GN for various shutter speeds. For example, here are some GNs at 105mm zoom in HSS mode:

• 1/250 sec: 16.4 meter
• 1/1000 sec: 8.2 meter
• 1/2000 sec: 5.8 meter
• 1/4000 sec: 4.1 meter
• 1/8000 sec: 2.7 meter

The GN = f-number x distance equation is pretty simple but finding the value of the Guide Number is the tough part. I suppose this is why so many people just use trial and error.

Click to expand...

I've just realised that I've made a few errors in my previous reply. The first mistake was:- "...if I were to use f6.3, the max distance for the V860II(N) would be (60/5.6=) 10.7'?", clearly I would have to use f5.6 and not f6.3!

Click to expand...

But this (and everything below) is already fatally flawed since HSS does NOT allow those (native SS) GN. Refer to the de-rated numbers above for 1/1000s (which you would have to use @ f/5.6 in SUN-light).

NOTE that you can indeed use a 2-stop ND filter to allow f/5.6 ... BUT again with an equal loss in GN so NO real "range-distance" advantage.

The ONLY way to get what you want is with a "LEAF" shutter where you can actually use higher SS, (and your initial calculations towards f/5.6 and even to f/2.8).

"max distance for the V860II(N) would be (60/5.6=) 10.7'" (w/ LEAF shutter)

Click to expand...

PhotoTeach2 said:

And YES ... I am upset that their is such a scarcity of leaf shutters when they used to be very prominent. That is one specific reason I like my FZ-1000.

Click to expand...

Presumably most other bridge cameras also use leaf shutters.

The Sigma DP series cameras, which have fixed prime lenses, also have leaf shutters. They will give higher image quality than any bridge camera, but each of the four models is limited to one angle of view. In effect, you buy a Sigma prime lens and get a free camera body.

PhotoTeach2 said:

But this (and everything below) is already fatally flawed since HSS does NOT allow those (native SS) GN. Refer to the de-rated numbers above for 1/1000s (which you would have to use @ f/5.6 in SUN-light).

Click to expand...

I fear I've muddied the water here by mentioning HSS! It's not my intention to use HSS (beyond perhaps experimenting with it a little) on a regular basis. My primary concern is fill flash and balancing that with the ambient to give a more natural look whilst eliminating harsh shadows on the subjects faces. Holiday/travel snaps etc.

I shoot in manual, so I would be setting the ISO/Aperture/SS myself, I would control the ambient. I would, however, be asking the flash to determine it's own power settings by using the camera's TTL system (in matrix metering mode) to calculate the fill flash.

I'll be using a crop sensor Nikon D7100 DSLR with a 24-70mm lens, most likely around 35mm (50mm FF equivalent) with an ISO 100, shutter speed of 1/125 to 1/250 and an aperture that would vary from f5.6 to f8. I would anticipate the subjects to be 10' away.

In that regard, would what I wrote in my last post with regards to the performance of the Godox V860II(N) meeting my requirements be correct?

DagonKhan said:

PhotoTeach2 said:

But this (and everything below) is already fatally flawed since HSS does NOT allow those (native SS) GN. Refer to the de-rated numbers above for 1/1000s (which you would have to use @ f/5.6 in SUN-light).

Click to expand...

I fear I've muddied the water here by mentioning HSS! It's not my intention to use HSS (beyond perhaps experimenting with it a little) on a regular basis. My primary concern is fill flash and balancing that with the ambient to give a more natural look whilst eliminating harsh shadows on the subjects faces. Holiday/travel snaps etc.

I shoot in manual, so I would be setting the ISO/Aperture/SS myself, I would control the ambient. I would, however, be asking the flash to determine it's own power settings by using the camera's TTL system (in matrix metering mode) to calculate the fill flash.

I'll be using a crop sensor Nikon D7100 DSLR with a 24-70mm lens, most likely around 35mm (50mm FF equivalent) with an ISO 100, shutter speed of 1/125 to 1/250 and an aperture that would vary from f5.6 to f8. I would anticipate the subjects to be 10' away.

Click to expand...

With all due respect, you obviously don't understand "Sunny-16 RULE".

It dictates that in (midday w/ no clouds) SUN-light @ f/16 and ISO-125 the shutter-speed must be 1/125s.

That translates to f/16 @ 1/125s or f/11 @ 1/250s. So you CAN'T consider using f/5.6-8, (unless it is CLOUDY-OVERCAST).

So you then move forward to the flash-exposure range predetermined by the "(effective)GN / f-stop formula".

Only w/ leaf-shutter can you optionally select 1/500s @ f/8, 1/1000s @ f/5.6, 1/2000s @ f/4, 1/4000s @ f/2.8, or 1/8000s @ f/2.

DagonKhan said:

In that regard, would what I wrote in my last post with regards to the performance of the Godox V860II(N) meeting my requirements be correct?

Click to expand...

You have made SEVERAL mistakes ....

First of all you originally used a GN of 60-"METER", but calculated 5.7-"FEET", so this "error" is in YOUR FAVOR because the actual distance is 5.7-METERS (or 17-FEET).

BUT ... you have also fallen for the SCAM of a TELE (200mm) zoom ratings. That indeed is also fine (and accurate) if you also intend to use a 200mm lens on your camera, (or only light the "face" of your subject in a WA scene).

I repeat again that the traditional standard GN specs were based on the (normal) 35mm setting and they have DELIBERATELY given you (only) the TELE settings to show their unit more favorably, (I suggest CONFUSE beginners).

Also don't forget that ALL GN's are often 1) exaggerated and 2) based on interior w/ white walls/ceilings for power reinforcement.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but simply things to consider as flash-units should be carefully bought.

NOTE that even another factor is how FAST you need to shoot. (ala time-between-shots and how "many" shots)

You CANNOT trust the flash to be (fully) recharged when the (green/red) READY light comes back on after an exposure. This light usually indicates about 70% charge and IF you try to make a second shot too soon, the second exposure will be UNDER-exposed if you indeed needed "full" power.

The rule-of-thumb there is to allow DOUBLE the amount of time that the READY light comes back on.

BUT ... you will then notice that this "time" takes longer and longer and longer if you have a big "job" and shooting a lot of flashes.

For that reason I NEVER relied on a strobe that used regular (small) batteries.

I also used units w/ over-shoulder BATTERY PACKS where I could shoot 200-300 flash's w/out extended delays between shots. (I used Braun RL-915 and METZ 60CT-4)

DagonKhan said:

I'm looking to add a speedlight to my Nikon D7100 DSLR. I'm looking for something that I can use for family days out/holidays etc.. Fill flash in the midday sun, that sort of thing. I'm not interested in something that could be used for OCF, home studio use etc.

I've been reading about using a speedlight in TTL BL mode whilst having the camera set to matrix metering mode (as opposed to full blown TTL mode with spot metering), this appears to be solution I should aim for as I am primarily interested in balancing the background ambient light with the flash. Quick and easy is what I'm after, but I'd also like the option of setting the flash manually.

There's the Godox range and Nikon's range as far as I can determine. As far as Nikon's range is concerned, the SB700 appears to be a good candidate, not sure about the Godox range. The SB500 looks great from a size/weight perspective, but I should imagine changing the power on the camera menus to be a lengthy and frustrating experience. If, however, the SB500 worked admirably in a fill flash capacity, I could be swayed.

I'm looking for people's thoughts/advice/experience on this matter. Any input would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Not sure how or why leaf shutters got inserted into this conversation. You're shooting a D7100 which does not have a leaf shutter.

If you're simply wanting to be able to have some fill flash and balancing bg with subject, you can do that with either a Nikon speed light or a Godox/Flashpoint if used properly.

For example, this one by Flashpoint/Godox would work. If you get the TTL version you'll have TTL. You will be able to opt to either go full TTL or, if you want, full manual. It will also have HSS if used off camera and triggered by a Flashpoint/Godox trigger.

Neither a Nikon or a Flashpoint/Godox will be powerful enough to overpower the sun, but if used correctly they would be able to balance the BG (in open shade, for example), or fill in shadows. The HSS feature would be quite useful for that.

The Flashpoint/Godox will considerably less expensive than the Nikon branded lights.

Krav Maga said:

DagonKhan said:

I'm looking to add a speedlight to my Nikon D7100 DSLR. I'm looking for something that I can use for family days out/holidays etc.. Fill flash in the midday sun, that sort of thing. I'm not interested in something that could be used for OCF, home studio use etc.

I've been reading about using a speedlight in TTL BL mode whilst having the camera set to matrix metering mode (as opposed to full blown TTL mode with spot metering), this appears to be solution I should aim for as I am primarily interested in balancing the background ambient light with the flash. Quick and easy is what I'm after, but I'd also like the option of setting the flash manually.

There's the Godox range and Nikon's range as far as I can determine. As far as Nikon's range is concerned, the SB700 appears to be a good candidate, not sure about the Godox range. The SB500 looks great from a size/weight perspective, but I should imagine changing the power on the camera menus to be a lengthy and frustrating experience. If, however, the SB500 worked admirably in a fill flash capacity, I could be swayed.

I'm looking for people's thoughts/advice/experience on this matter. Any input would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Not sure how or why leaf shutters got inserted into this conversation. You're shooting a D7100 which does not have a leaf shutter.

If you're simply wanting to be able to have some fill flash and balancing bg with subject, you can do that with either a Nikon speed light or a Godox/Flashpoint if used properly.

Click to expand...

Of course he can, but to WHAT DISTANCE ???

Krav Maga said:

For example, this one by Flashpoint/Godox would work. If you get the TTL version you'll have TTL. You will be able to opt to either go full TTL or, if you want, full manual. It will also have HSS if used off camera and triggered by a Flashpoint/Godox trigger.

Click to expand...

Again ... to WHAT (MAX) DISTANCE ???

Krav Maga said:

Neither a Nikon or a Flashpoint/Godox will be powerful enough to overpower the sun,

Click to expand...

To What DISTANCE ???

Krav Maga said:

but if used correctly they would be able to balance the BG (in open shade, for example), or fill in shadows.

Click to expand...

Even if the "subject" is in open-shade, the BG is still in (bright) SUN-light and thus MUST be considered the "ambient" brightness if you want it balanced and not washed-out.

Krav Maga said:

The HSS feature would be quite useful for that.

Click to expand...

HSS "useful" ... To WHAT DISTANCE ??? (Do you understand HSS ???)

Krav Maga said:

The Flashpoint/Godox will considerably less expensive than the Nikon branded lights.

Click to expand...

Of course ANY flash can be used in SUN-light ... the question is to WHAT DISTANCE (to get 1:1 ratio) ???

No need to over complicate it, and no need for the histrionics.

The distance will vary depending on the conditions and the power of the flash.

I've used various flashes and speed lights for fill very adequately with my non leaf shutter camera and produced shots that were better with the speed light fill than without it.

Calm down and, again, lets not over complicate a fairly simple thing.

That the OP may be better served posing this question over at the Studio and Lighting Technique forum.

Krav Maga said:

No need to over complicate it, and no need for the histrionics.

Click to expand...

But you brought out things like HSS that would not be applicable to his situation.

(and you didn't answer if you fully/CORRECTLY understood how HSS works and why it has such severe limitations and only "one" specific application)

Krav Maga said:

The distance will vary depending on the conditions and the power of the flash.

Click to expand...

Of course it depends on the "power" of the flash, (defined by Guide-Number).

But he was asking for specifics, (specific camera and specific flash-units), so I simply gave him semi-definitive answers, (dependent on the questionably accurate specifications and when they are applicable).

Krav Maga said:

I've used various flashes and speed lights for fill very adequately with my non leaf shutter camera and produced shots that were better with the speed light fill than without it.

Click to expand...

With what flash (GN) and distance ???

Krav Maga said:

Calm down and, again, lets not over complicate a fairly simple thing.

Click to expand...

IF you notice that most YouTube SUN-light flash shooting examples is with flash-units mounted on stands NEAR THE SUBJECT, (and some were not shot under bright-midday SUN-light and thus could use a wider f-stop).

Krav Maga said:

That the OP may be better served posing this question over at the Studio and Lighting Technique forum.

Click to expand...

That would be a good idea .... but I don't think I have given him any "incorrect" information.

PhotoTeach2 said:

With all due respect, you obviously don't understand "Sunny-16 RULE".

It dictates that in (midday w/ no clouds) SUN-light @ f/16 and ISO-125 the shutter-speed must be 1/125s.

That translates to f/16 @ 1/125s or f/11 @ 1/250s. So you CAN'T consider using f/5.6-8, (unless it is CLOUDY-OVERCAST).

Click to expand...

You're quite right, I don't really understand it, I've never used it, but I have heard of it. I wouldn't use it because I would be reluctant to use anything higher than f8, f11 at a push as I simply don't like the results. I would have set a higher SS to compensate instead. This harks back to a time when I took some test shots at different apertures to determine what I regarded as acceptable sharpness.

I believe I now realise why you were mentioning this, this brings us back around to the flash sync speed of 1/250? And if I follow you correctly, you're saying that at midday, in full sunlight, the fastest SS I could use (without employing HSS) is 1/250 and therefore by using the Sunny 16 rule, the fatest aperture I should select would be f11. That's okay, I can live with f11.

PhotoTeach2 said:

You have made SEVERAL mistakes ....

First of all you originally used a GN of 60-"METER", but calculated 5.7-"FEET", so this "error" is in YOUR FAVOR because the actual distance is 5.7-METERS (or 17-FEET).

BUT ... you have also fallen for the SCAM of a TELE (200mm) zoom ratings. That indeed is also fine (and accurate) if you also intend to use a 200mm lens on your camera, (or only light the "face" of your subject in a WA scene).

I repeat again that the traditional standard GN specs were based on the (normal) 35mm setting and they have DELIBERATELY given you (only) the TELE settings to show their unit more favorably, (I suggest CONFUSE beginners).

Click to expand...

Yes, you're quite correct that I did make some errors and I was indeed confused, but I wonder if you missed my earlier post (I believe we posted at the same time!;-)) where I attempted to correct those errors and I wrote:-

[U][B]DagonKhan[/B][/U] said:

....

The second and third mistakes were my assumptions concerning the GN of 60 for the Godox. As you point out it is for 200mm and just as bad I mixed metres for feet! I've since been scouring the internet for some indication of GN's for the Godox V860II(N) and I came across this post :- "First thing I noticed was that flash power wasn't constant at each zoom step. My trial results were: zoom 200 – GN 60, zoom 135 – GN 59,6, zoom 105 – GN 57,6, zoom 80 – GN 55,6, zoom 70 – GN 53,7, zoom 50 – GN 51,9, zoom 35 – GN 50,1, zoom 28 – GN 48,4, zoom 24 – GN 46,8, zoom 20 – GN 45,2".

So (and please tell me if I'm wrong!), if I am aiming for a flash that will work at f8 at 10', I will require one with a GN of at least 80. Moreover, if my desired lens is a 35mm (50mm equivalent as I have a crop sensor), I need that GN80 at 35mm (or is it 50mm?). Looking at the paragraph above, the Godox V860II(N) has a GN of 50.1 at 35mm and a GN of 53.7 at 50mm. Using the lower figure (so as to err on the side of caution), I believe I would first need to convert the 50.1 metres into feet, so 50.1 x 3.28 = 164'. 164' divided by f8 would give me a max distance of 20.5'. Even at f16 the max distance would be 10.25', so I believe the Godox V860II(N) would comfortably cover my requirements.

Click to expand...

I wonder if you'd be so good as to cast your eye over the figures above and let me know if I'm on the right track?

PhotoTeach2 said:

Also don't forget that ALL GN's are often 1) exaggerated and 2) based on interior w/ white walls/ceilings for power reinforcement.

Click to expand...

I understand. In the absence of any third party verified figures, I have little choice but to use the figures provided.

PhotoTeach2 said:

NOTE that even another factor is how FAST you need to shoot. (ala time-between-shots and how "many" shots)

You CANNOT trust the flash to be (fully) recharged when the (green/red) READY light comes back on after an exposure. This light usually indicates about 70% charge and IF you try to make a second shot too soon, the second exposure will be UNDER-exposed if you indeed needed "full" power.

The rule-of-thumb there is to allow DOUBLE the amount of time that the READY light comes back on.

BUT ... you will then notice that this "time" takes longer and longer and longer if you have a big "job" and shooting a lot of flashes.

For that reason I NEVER relied on a strobe that used regular (small) batteries.

I also used units w/ over-shoulder BATTERY PACKS where I could shoot 200-300 flash's w/out extended delays between shots. (I used Braun RL-915 and METZ 60CT-4)

Click to expand...

I do believe the Godox unit I am considering has an extremely fast recycle time due to it's LiON battery pack (there is a version which is the same, the only difference being it utilises AA batteries). Not that I feel I will require it though, but useful information nonetheless. As for size/capacity, I really need something that will slip into my existing camera bag. I'm no pro, just an enthusiastic amateur!

PhotoTeach2 said:

I don't mean to be discouraging, but simply things to consider as flash-units should be carefully bought.

Click to expand...

Not at all discouraging and I quite agree. I try and do some research before I jump into things. I'm grateful for the time you have spent answering my questions, thank you very much!

Krav Maga said:

That the OP may be better served posing this question over at the Studio and Lighting Technique forum.

Click to expand...

Ahhh, I was unaware of that. Thanks!

Krav Maga said:

The Flashpoint/Godox will considerably less expensive than the Nikon branded lights.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input Krav. I quite agree that the Nikon branded flash units appear very over priced in comparison. The general concensus appears to be that there is not much wrong with the Godox units.