Focus Bracketing on A7Riii -- Sony, I'm done waiting!

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

ZilverHaylide said:

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

Click to expand...

Sony hasn't traditionally updated their cameras with lots of functionality after the fact.

Why did you expect this to come after the fact?

This may be an option.

ZilverHaylide said:

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

Click to expand...

That's really the first question to be answered. You might only be in a small minority who feel cheated.

Another question comes to mind: How many people here spend that much of their time researching the specific features that other systems have?

theoverratedphotog said:

ZilverHaylide said:

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

Click to expand...

Sony hasn't traditionally updated their cameras with lots of functionality after the fact.

Why did you expect this to come after the fact?

Click to expand...

Because of capitalist competition. Competitors have it, built in, including, as I pointed out, cameras that cost FAR LESS than the A7Riii. Does Sony want to stay competitive, or not? Do they want customers to be happy with their purchase, or do they want customers to feel like they are being treated with contempt post-sale? Fuji, with significant camera functionality updates, shows what proper after-sale service should be.

theoverratedphotog said:

This may be an option.

https://briansmith.com/camfi-announces-sony-a7-iii-a7r-iii-focus-stacking-support/

Click to expand...

Thanks for the CamFi info, I do appreciate you taking the time to respond, but I was already aware of it and consider it a kludgy and far-from-complete solution, for these reasons:

1) first and foremost, the long delay between shots. From their info: "The interval between each shot has been reduced from the original 4 seconds to 2 seconds". That's effectively an eternity for brackets that involve a large number of shots, and even for smaller brackets in the field, subject movement is far more likely than with the quick bracketing possible when built into the camera.

2) it's designed to sit on the camera flash shoe -- possibly precluding use of directly-connected flash, but even if not (by using a splitter), still a PITA for field use to have that extra blob on top.

3) being from a manufacturer other than the camera maker, there's a much greater possibility of compatibility problems. Current reviews at the BrianSmith site and elsewhere describe problems, but even if they didn't, there is the possibility that a future camera firmware update could break compatibility. Such things happen all the time.

4) I'd have to pay to get a kludgy add-on implementation of a fairly-basic feature that the camera manufacturer should include.

I suggest you drop Sony and use cameras that meet your needs as you have already identified. This is not a feature that many Sony users would find useful.

So their design aims and road map were not formulated yesterday.
Still, it would be nice to imagine they were working on a blisteringly fast version that could deal with water.
Even nicer if they released it as Play Memories for my A7R.
No chance for in camera of course as the clockwork is too slow,
but some form of shortcut tracking/indexing on the files to enable it in PP would be cool.

--
Ron.
Volunteer, what could possibly go wrong ?

paul wassermann said:

I suggest you drop Sony and use cameras that meet your needs as you have already identified. This is not a feature that many Sony users would find useful.

Click to expand...

As to how many Sony users would find the feature useful, I don't think it's clear, and even if it was, things change. Once upon a time, automobiles rarely had automatic transmissions, air conditioning, power windows, power door locks, variable-speed windshield wipers... . Now we consider them normal, in fact, most people would consider them essential. The same might well be true for camera focus bracketing, once customers get a taste of it.

At introduction, all those above-mentioned automotive features cost significant money to include, and that helps explain why widespread adoption of them took considerable time. For basic focus bracketing, all it should take is at most a day or two of programming, and a further bit of testing. (And I'm old enough to know what I'm talking about, my first computer language was Algol-W. With modern object-oriented programming, implementation should be easy.)

I think you are letting Sony get off far too easily. I'm talking about a feature that with a tiny bit of explanation I think many people would find useful, and which Sony could implement with little cost. That they haven't yet done so speaks volumes about what they think of customers. Customers should not think so little of themselves.

sybersitizen said:

ZilverHaylide said:

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

Click to expand...

That's really the first question to be answered. You might only be in a small minority who feel cheated.

Another question comes to mind: How many people here spend that much of their time researching the specific features that other systems have?

Click to expand...

I agree that many people don't spend much time researching pre-purchase. But that doesn't mean they won't eventually miss a capability if their needs change, and/or as their photographic abilities develop. If they realize that the manufacturer could have included those missing capabilities for a very few dollars (if even that much) per unit, as is often the case with firmware-controlled features, resentment is a natural, rational outcome.

ZilverHaylide said:

theoverratedphotog said:

ZilverHaylide said:

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

Click to expand...

Sony hasn't traditionally updated their cameras with lots of functionality after the fact.

Why did you expect this to come after the fact?

Click to expand...

Because of capitalist competition. Competitors have it, built in, including, as I pointed out, cameras that cost FAR LESS than the A7Riii. Does Sony want to stay competitive, or not? Do they want customers to be happy with their purchase, or do they want customers to feel like they are being treated with contempt post-sale? Fuji, with significant camera functionality updates, shows what proper after-sale service should be.

Click to expand...

Fujifilm has known to do updates, so has Olympus. Nikon never used to do it other than errors but started more recently.

I think if you use history as a reflection, Sony brings out new cameras with more functionality than Fujifilm and Fujifilm backfills old models. They are different levels of innovation. I don't agree with Sony's approach but they have never pretended to update old models.

ZilverHaylide said:

ZilverHaylide said:

This may be an option.

https://briansmith.com/camfi-announces-sony-a7-iii-a7r-iii-focus-stacking-support/

Click to expand...

Thanks for the CamFi info, I do appreciate you taking the time to respond, but I was already aware of it and consider it a kludgy and far-from-complete solution, for these reasons:

1) first and foremost, the long delay between shots. From their info: "The interval between each shot has been reduced from the original 4 seconds to 2 seconds". That's effectively an eternity for brackets that involve a large number of shots, and even for smaller brackets in the field, subject movement is far more likely than with the quick bracketing possible when built into the camera.

2) it's designed to sit on the camera flash shoe -- possibly precluding use of directly-connected flash, but even if not (by using a splitter), still a PITA for field use to have that extra blob on top.

3) being from a manufacturer other than the camera maker, there's a much greater possibility of compatibility problems. Current reviews at the BrianSmith site and elsewhere describe problems, but even if they didn't, there is the possibility that a future camera firmware update could break compatibility. Such things happen all the time.

4) I'd have to pay to get a kludgy add-on implementation of a fairly-basic feature that the camera manufacturer should include.

Click to expand...

Ron Poelman said:

So their design aims and road map were not formulated yesterday.
Still, it would be nice to imagine they were working on a blisteringly fast version that could deal with water.
Even nicer if they released it as Play Memories for my A7R.
No chance for in camera of course as the clockwork is too slow,
but some form of shortcut tracking/indexing on the files to enable it in PP would be cool.

Click to expand...

If a bit shrill, it's so I hope Sony will notice. And solve the problem, ideally via firmware update.

And while they started the mirrorless full-frame revolution, that doesn't mean they should rest on their laurels. Or that they can. Capitalism is supposedly about competition. Ignore the competition and you'll be overtaken by it. As I pointed out, the feature is available from multiple competitors, and on many cameras priced much lower than the A7Riii. But a Sony user shouldn't have to either switch systems or buy an additional camera in order to get a fairly-basic feature that could be implemented by Sony at little cost.

I also wish Sony would add this. I came from Olympus and that was one of my favorite features. Might there be a royalty or patent issue?

ZilverHaylide said:

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

Click to expand...

I agree and think it should have been on the a7iii as well.

I can’t imagine there’s a technical reason for not having it so surely it’s just a software issue? I’m absolutely sure makers take competitors gear apart to see how it works so I’m sure they can reverse engineer it if they need to.

NicoT said:

I also wish Sony would add this. I came from Olympus and that was one of my favorite features.

Click to expand...

Thanks for adding your support on this issue.

NicoT said:

Might there be a royalty or patent issue?

Click to expand...

I doubt it, but if there is, the feature's availability from multiple competitors implies that an agreement is possible at reasonable cost.

21William said:

ZilverHaylide said:

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

Click to expand...

I agree and think it should have been on the a7iii as well.

Click to expand...

Thanks for adding your support, and yes, I agree that it should be on the A7iii as well.

21William said:

I can’t imagine there’s a technical reason for not having it so surely it’s just a software issue? I’m absolutely sure makers take competitors gear apart to see how it works so I’m sure they can reverse engineer it if they need to.

Click to expand...

paul wassermann said:

I suggest you drop Sony and use cameras that meet your needs as you have already identified. This is not a feature that many Sony users would find useful.

Click to expand...

What do you base this on? In what ways are Sony users different from Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Panasonic, and Olympus users? Focus bracketing/stacking is very useful for, at a bare minimum, macro and landscape photography. Are there not many Sony users who shoot macro and/or landscapes?

I shoot primarily landscapes, so it's not a huge deal to do it manually (for macro I imagine this would be more of a hassle given the number of shots you might need), but of course I would welcome the camera doing it for me.

this works but I agree, incamera bracketing would be far better und useful

Lothman said:

this works but I agree, incamera bracketing would be far better und useful

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61574308

Click to expand...

Thanks VERY much for that link. While that method would be too inconvenient for many, probably most, of my field uses, for some indoor uses I think it could be workable.

I’m hoping Sony’s new Bluetooth remote ‘RMT-P1BT’ is indicative of new focus protocols for remote focus. It seems that this remote can adjust the focus thru Bluetooth. I’d love to see iPhone apps that could automate focus bracketing.

paul wassermann said:

I suggest you drop Sony and use cameras that meet your needs as you have already identified. This is not a feature that many Sony users would find useful.

Click to expand...

Well, as a Sony user I would love to have that feature on my A7RII

I have the a7riii and also wish they had this feature. It is very useful for product, and still life photography. You could try B8stack.