Reading mode: Light Dark

Still Waiting on higher end EOS Mirrorless

Go to last post
S

Steve W

Veteran Member
Messages
7,036
Solutions
2
Reaction score
2,459
Location
Maine, US
Currently from Canon I shoot a 5D Mark IV. Have owned a 1Dx, and prior 5D, 7D and other high end models but have to admit that the EOS R was not quite what I wanted. Back a few years ago I also started to buy Sony A7R, the RII, and now RIII and even A9 to replace my 1Dx. So I have been shooting Canon less and less but really want a Canon mirrorless body that is best in class that is aimed to improve on the 5D Mark IV. I am a Canon fan but not blind to what Sony has been able to accomplish while Canon stood on the sidelines of Full Frame Mirrorless development.

Waiting for this new Canon, yet to be announced, made me do something strange in the last few weeks. Because I want that new camera that just hasn't come and found I was using my Sony bodies for all my prime shooting I let go of 5 of my best Canon L primes which where the 35L, 50L, 85LII, 100L Macro, and 135L. My reasoning was three fold.

1. I was adapting them less and less to Sony since I had as good or better Sony or Zeiss primes native to the Sony mount so the Canon's were just sitting there.

2. The Sony body got used more for prime shooting since it offered image stabalization even for using Canon lenses.

3. Canon themselves were replacing them with great RF primes that I would clearly want if and when I buy a Canon mirrorless body that took RF lenses. My reasoning was these new RF lenses would be great to use without having to adapt and it looks like some will be image stabilized as well

So right now the camera bag that has the Canon 5D Mark IV has three great zooms in it, the 24-70 f/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L II, and 16-35 f4L all of which are image stabilized. Maybe I will buy the EF 85 f/1.4 that has IS since not having a fast portrait lens for Canon is one that I do miss.

So when will Canon give use the that mirrorless body that will clearly replace a 5D Mark IV and also eliminate the stupid full frame crop 4K video limitations. This last point is not a big issue for me personally but clearly a message to users that they are not serious about offering a camera to compete with Nikon, Sony, or Panasonic in the hybrid shooter market.

Steve W
 
Hi Steve,

1) I think you will get your wish in the next 12 months. ( FYI: That was a totally random guess which is what seems to make online prognosticators think they know stuff!)

2) Can I have your EF lenses when you don't need them anymore? :-)
 
Focus Point said:
Hi Steve,

1) I think you will get your wish in the next 12 months. ( FYI: That was a totally random guess which is what seems to make online prognosticators think they know stuff!)

2) Can I have your EF lenses when you don't need them anymore? :-)
Click to expand...
Well I sold the 5 and still have 7 others that have real value and can be sold. They are:
  1. EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II
  2. EF 70-100mm f/2.8L IS II
  3. EF 16-35mm f/4L IS
  4. TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II
  5. TS-E 17mm f/4L
  6. EF 300mm f/2.8L IS (version 1)
  7. EF 15mm FishEye
Everything is negotiable ;-)

Steve W
 
Steve W said:
Currently from Canon I shoot a 5D Mark IV. Have owned a 1Dx, and prior 5D, 7D and other high end models but have to admit that the EOS R was not quite what I wanted. Back a few years ago I also started to buy Sony A7R, the RII, and now RIII and even A9 to replace my 1Dx. So I have been shooting Canon less and less but really want a Canon mirrorless body that is best in class that is aimed to improve on the 5D Mark IV. I am a Canon fan but not blind to what Sony has been able to accomplish while Canon stood on the sidelines of Full Frame Mirrorless development.

Waiting for this new Canon, yet to be announced, made me do something strange in the last few weeks. Because I want that new camera that just hasn't come and found I was using my Sony bodies for all my prime shooting I let go of 5 of my best Canon L primes which where the 35L, 50L, 85LII, 100L Macro, and 135L. My reasoning was three fold.

1. I was adapting them less and less to Sony since I had as good or better Sony or Zeiss primes native to the Sony mount so the Canon's were just sitting there.

2. The Sony body got used more for prime shooting since it offered image stabalization even for using Canon lenses.

3. Canon themselves were replacing them with great RF primes that I would clearly want if and when I buy a Canon mirrorless body that took RF lenses. My reasoning was these new RF lenses would be great to use without having to adapt and it looks like some will be image stabilized as well

So right now the camera bag that has the Canon 5D Mark IV has three great zooms in it, the 24-70 f/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L II, and 16-35 f4L all of which are image stabilized. Maybe I will buy the EF 85 f/1.4 that has IS since not having a fast portrait lens for Canon is one that I do miss.

So when will Canon give use the that mirrorless body that will clearly replace a 5D Mark IV and also eliminate the stupid full frame crop 4K video limitations. This last point is not a big issue for me personally but clearly a message to users that they are not serious about offering a camera to compete with Nikon, Sony, or Panasonic in the hybrid shooter market.

Steve W
Click to expand...
I don't get the issue with the EF adapter. It just changes the EOS R into 5D mkIV thickness when you want to use an EF lens. Canon DSLR's need that thickness to use EF lenses so I figure I am not missing much if I want to borrow a EF 70-200mm 2.8. Not an issue for me to have a longer camera as long as it's performance is there.

The advantage of having a shorter body will be slightly on my mind when shopping new RF lenses.

First thing you learn in the urban sprawl, is you always gotta wait.
 
Canon is just waiting for enough high end shooters to get rid of their L glass so they could sell them RF lenses :-).
 
Steve W said:
Currently from Canon I shoot a 5D Mark IV. Have owned a 1Dx, and prior 5D, 7D and other high end models but have to admit that the EOS R was not quite what I wanted. Back a few years ago I also started to buy Sony A7R, the RII, and now RIII and even A9 to replace my 1Dx. So I have been shooting Canon less and less but really want a Canon mirrorless body that is best in class that is aimed to improve on the 5D Mark IV. I am a Canon fan but not blind to what Sony has been able to accomplish while Canon stood on the sidelines of Full Frame Mirrorless development.

Waiting for this new Canon, yet to be announced, made me do something strange in the last few weeks. Because I want that new camera that just hasn't come and found I was using my Sony bodies for all my prime shooting I let go of 5 of my best Canon L primes which where the 35L, 50L, 85LII, 100L Macro, and 135L. My reasoning was three fold.

1. I was adapting them less and less to Sony since I had as good or better Sony or Zeiss primes native to the Sony mount so the Canon's were just sitting there.

2. The Sony body got used more for prime shooting since it offered image stabalization even for using Canon lenses.

3. Canon themselves were replacing them with great RF primes that I would clearly want if and when I buy a Canon mirrorless body that took RF lenses. My reasoning was these new RF lenses would be great to use without having to adapt and it looks like some will be image stabilized as well

So right now the camera bag that has the Canon 5D Mark IV has three great zooms in it, the 24-70 f/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L II, and 16-35 f4L all of which are image stabilized
Click to expand...
The 2470 doesn't have IS. But these three lenses will make it easy to use your "pro" R-body once it comes out. They made swithing from Sony to Canon painless for me. But the RF replacement zooms that Canon recently announced are very tempting.
Steve W said:
Maybe I will buy the EF 85 f/1.4 that has IS since not having a fast portrait lens for Canon is one that I do miss.

So when will Canon give use the that mirrorless body that will clearly replace a 5D Mark IV and also eliminate the stupid full frame crop 4K video limitations. This last point is not a big issue for me personally but clearly a message to users that they are not serious about offering a camera to compete with Nikon, Sony, or Panasonic in the hybrid shooter market.
Click to expand...
That 4K video I don't care about at all. In fact, I can do w/o video. What's importent is to get read speed up.
Steve W said:
Steve W
Click to expand...
 
Steve W said:
Currently from Canon I shoot a 5D Mark IV. Have owned a 1Dx, and prior 5D, 7D and other high end models but have to admit that the EOS R was not quite what I wanted. Back a few years ago I also started to buy Sony A7R, the RII, and now RIII and even A9 to replace my 1Dx. So I have been shooting Canon less and less but really want a Canon mirrorless body that is best in class that is aimed to improve on the 5D Mark IV. I am a Canon fan but not blind to what Sony has been able to accomplish while Canon stood on the sidelines of Full Frame Mirrorless development.

Waiting for this new Canon, yet to be announced, made me do something strange in the last few weeks. Because I want that new camera that just hasn't come and found I was using my Sony bodies for all my prime shooting I let go of 5 of my best Canon L primes which where the 35L, 50L, 85LII, 100L Macro, and 135L. My reasoning was three fold.

1. I was adapting them less and less to Sony since I had as good or better Sony or Zeiss primes native to the Sony mount so the Canon's were just sitting there.

2. The Sony body got used more for prime shooting since it offered image stabalization even for using Canon lenses.

3. Canon themselves were replacing them with great RF primes that I would clearly want if and when I buy a Canon mirrorless body that took RF lenses. My reasoning was these new RF lenses would be great to use without having to adapt and it looks like some will be image stabilized as well

So right now the camera bag that has the Canon 5D Mark IV has three great zooms in it, the 24-70 f/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L II, and 16-35 f4L all of which are image stabilized. Maybe I will buy the EF 85 f/1.4 that has IS since not having a fast portrait lens for Canon is one that I do miss.

So when will Canon give use the that mirrorless body that will clearly replace a 5D Mark IV and also eliminate the stupid full frame crop 4K video limitations. This last point is not a big issue for me personally but clearly a message to users that they are not serious about offering a camera to compete with Nikon, Sony, or Panasonic in the hybrid shooter market.

Steve W
Click to expand...
No real need to upgrade at this point if your upgrade is Canon. You have the tools you need. The only reason you should upgrade is if you want to shoot differently, shoot different style of photography, and shoot a different brand.
 
Steve W said:
So when will Canon give use the that mirrorless body that will clearly replace a 5D Mark IV and also eliminate the stupid full frame crop 4K video limitations. This last point is not a big issue for me personally but clearly a message to users that they are not serious about offering a camera to compete with Nikon, Sony, or Panasonic in the hybrid shooter market.

Steve W
Click to expand...
I am with you. Holding my breath. :)
 
I am with you. I have Sony a7rii, excellent IQ, with canon lenses

both Sony and canon R has/will have the lenses I wanted. I was close to move to Sony. Now, I will give a year for canon to play catch up and then decide.

from what I read , the adapted lenses are pretty good on the R. So I expect the next R will be even better
 
ToxicTabasco said:
Steve W said:
Currently from Canon I shoot a 5D Mark IV. Have owned a 1Dx, and prior 5D, 7D and other high end models but have to admit that the EOS R was not quite what I wanted. Back a few years ago I also started to buy Sony A7R, the RII, and now RIII and even A9 to replace my 1Dx. So I have been shooting Canon less and less but really want a Canon mirrorless body that is best in class that is aimed to improve on the 5D Mark IV. I am a Canon fan but not blind to what Sony has been able to accomplish while Canon stood on the sidelines of Full Frame Mirrorless development.

Waiting for this new Canon, yet to be announced, made me do something strange in the last few weeks. Because I want that new camera that just hasn't come and found I was using my Sony bodies for all my prime shooting I let go of 5 of my best Canon L primes which where the 35L, 50L, 85LII, 100L Macro, and 135L. My reasoning was three fold.

1. I was adapting them less and less to Sony since I had as good or better Sony or Zeiss primes native to the Sony mount so the Canon's were just sitting there.

2. The Sony body got used more for prime shooting since it offered image stabalization even for using Canon lenses.

3. Canon themselves were replacing them with great RF primes that I would clearly want if and when I buy a Canon mirrorless body that took RF lenses. My reasoning was these new RF lenses would be great to use without having to adapt and it looks like some will be image stabilized as well

So right now the camera bag that has the Canon 5D Mark IV has three great zooms in it, the 24-70 f/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L II, and 16-35 f4L all of which are image stabilized. Maybe I will buy the EF 85 f/1.4 that has IS since not having a fast portrait lens for Canon is one that I do miss.

So when will Canon give use the that mirrorless body that will clearly replace a 5D Mark IV and also eliminate the stupid full frame crop 4K video limitations. This last point is not a big issue for me personally but clearly a message to users that they are not serious about offering a camera to compete with Nikon, Sony, or Panasonic in the hybrid shooter market.

Steve W
Click to expand...
No real need to upgrade at this point if your upgrade is Canon. You have the tools you need. The only reason you should upgrade is if you want to shoot differently, shoot different style of photography, and shoot a different brand.
Click to expand...
I have really gotten used to the capability that a mirrorless camera can provide with a stellar EVF and I think since this would be a new camera Canon should
  • Be able to match Sony in Frames/second with full time autofocus of 10 fps instead of 7 fps of the 5D Mark IV
  • Would like the higher end Mirrorless EOS to have two symmetric UHS-II card slots (yes I know the 5D Mark IV does not have symmetric slots either which has also been an issue for it for me personally)
  • Have a larger buffer instead of 17 RAW images of the 5D Mark IV. The A7RIII has 28 for a 42 Mpixel sensor so I am thinking ~40
30 MPixels is fine for me so even though my A7RIII has 42 Mpixels, and I enjoy it I am fine to have a Canon mirrorless at 30 MP like the EOS R.

Yes I can get the features I want with Sony but I want them with Canon. Basically what I am hoping is that Canon will provide 5D IV users an upgrade path that is based on a mirrorless platform and not a DSLR.

Steve W
 
Georgeee said:
I am with you. I have Sony a7rii, excellent IQ, with canon lenses

both Sony and canon R has/will have the lenses I wanted. I was close to move to Sony. Now, I will give a year for canon to play catch up and then decide.

from what I read , the adapted lenses are pretty good on the R. So I expect the next R will be even better
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong Canon L glass is great and one of the reasons I have stuck with Canon and not completely switched to Sony. Sony has however at 400mm and below done a pretty good job on setting themselves up with the equal of the L lenses I think (my own opinion only). Also Canon's new RF glass is upping the game so want to be able to take advantage of it as an alternative to Sony on a nicer RF body. The new RF lenses in the Canon pipe will be great and need a body to go with them that reaches the same level. Its that simple to me.

Steve W
 
RedFox88 said:
sounds like you’re a collector of cameras. They are all great these days with minor differences
Click to expand...
As a matter of fact I am a camera collector. Have a several film bodies I often use for just the fun of it. On the digital front I am attracted to them as an electrical engineer who develops integrated circuits for many mobile and other application. So the way camera companies create products and make trade-off I find very interesting. There are many trade-off made.

Steve W
 
I’m an A7Rii and A7Riii user but with Canon lenses and won’t hesitate to upgrade to a Canon pro grade high resolution R camera upon its release, even if the spec sheet suggests its still not as good as the Sony.

I love the Sony for the IQ but it always feels a little sterile and no matter how many great lenses get release I just don’t trust Sony long term. Once better mirrorless cameras get release from all manufacturers, will Sony stick around and continue to develop E mount or will they shift onto the next big think - possibly developing their owm medium format cameras?

Additionally, the day Canon release a wide TS-RF lens (to replace the 16mm and 24mm TS-E) would be the nail in the coffin for any future Sony gear for me.
 
gazza73 said:
I’m an A7Rii and A7Riii user but with Canon lenses and won’t hesitate to upgrade to a Canon pro grade high resolution R camera upon its release, even if the spec sheet suggests its still not as good as the Sony.

I love the Sony for the IQ but it always feels a little sterile and no matter how many great lenses get release I just don’t trust Sony long term. Once better mirrorless cameras get release from all manufacturers, will Sony stick around and continue to develop E mount or will they shift onto the next big think - possibly developing their owm medium format cameras?

Additionally, the day Canon release a wide TS-RF lens (to replace the 16mm and 24mm TS-E) would be the nail in the coffin for any future Sony gear for me.
Click to expand...
I understand those trust issues with Sony. Had them myself for the longest time. My problem is I have them some what with Canon now as well. Its not clear to me what Canon wants to be in the camera market. The lens team appears they want to still be the leading supplier of high quality advanced optical designs with great quality. The camera side of the house appears to want to be the mid tear volume supplier with average gear for the masses.

When it comes to cameras others are trying to push beyond Sony but Canon isn't one of them. Nikon, Panasonic, Fujifilm are all trying to build the best camera in the mirrorless segment (even though Fujifilm is doing in APS-C). Canon is all about maximizing profits it appears and not about offering great cameras.

Steve W
 
Steve W said:
When it comes to cameras others are trying to push beyond Sony but Canon isn't one of them. Nikon, Panasonic, Fujifilm are all trying to build the best camera in the mirrorless segment (even though Fujifilm is doing in APS-C). Canon is all about maximizing profits it appears and not about offering great cameras.

Steve W
Click to expand...
My opinion is too many people choose cameras by listening to YouTubers and obsessively comparing spec sheets.

I honestly think that while some cameras may have a little more of this or a bit less of that, its actually a pretty level playing field when it comes to their ability to product amazing images.

Maximising profit is a way of the world and very evident in photography circles from all manufacturers when looking at the cost of recent camera releases (falling) vs the cost of the lenses (rising). Camera sales and technology plateau's so the shift is on bigger, better, faster and ultimately more expensive lenses.

It's evident looking at the upcoming lens forecast is that Canon mean business when it comes to mirrorless but I don't get the same impression any longer from Sony. Where is the A7SIII or the A9R? My A7Riii is a great camera but really only a facelift A7Rii from 2015. Are Sony just waiting to stamp on Canon's pro range of R cameras with their next jump in camera technology or will it just release another fast 50mm lens?

And thats my point..... Its very likely we'll get lots coming from Canon in the next few years but anyones guess what Sony will do and why I have trust issues.
 
gazza73 said:
Steve W said:
When it comes to cameras others are trying to push beyond Sony but Canon isn't one of them. Nikon, Panasonic, Fujifilm are all trying to build the best camera in the mirrorless segment (even though Fujifilm is doing in APS-C). Canon is all about maximizing profits it appears and not about offering great cameras.

Steve W
Click to expand...
My opinion is too many people choose cameras by listening to YouTubers and obsessively comparing spec sheets.

I honestly think that while some cameras may have a little more of this or a bit less of that, its actually a pretty level playing field when it comes to their ability to product amazing images.

Maximising profit is a way of the world and very evident in photography circles from all manufacturers when looking at the cost of recent camera releases (falling) vs the cost of the lenses (rising). Camera sales and technology plateau's so the shift is on bigger, better, faster and ultimately more expensive lenses.

It's evident looking at the upcoming lens forecast is that Canon mean business when it comes to mirrorless but I don't get the same impression any longer from Sony. Where is the A7SIII or the A9R? My A7Riii is a great camera but really only a facelift A7Rii from 2015. Are Sony just waiting to stamp on Canon's pro range of R cameras with their next jump in camera technology or will it just release another fast 50mm lens?

And thats my point..... Its very likely we'll get lots coming from Canon in the next few years but anyones guess what Sony will do and why I have trust issues.
Click to expand...
On Canon the next 9 months I think will tell if they plan offering a leading edge camera I think (or maybe that is hope). Same may be true of Sony to see if they can deliver another winner to market. On your comment on the A7RIII I don't agree. I personally think the A7RIII was much more than a face lift from the A7RII (I have owned both). Its add a great AF system, great battery system, continued a phenomenal sensor, and added two card slots. It basically became as good and reliable camera as my 5D Mark IV in a lot of ways with a better sensor. And that is all without talking about full frame video. With the new firmware it will get even better.

I think Sony has not share the A7SIII or A9R because none of their competitors has truly bested them or they are really not the right cameras right now. Maybe with the Olympics the a9ii takes higher priority. What do you think?

Finally, come on Canon show us what your capable. Can you define and build the one of the best mirrorless camera bodies out there? Your lens team hopes you can.

Steve W

--
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe! - Words to live by. Albert Einstein
 
Last edited:
Steve W said:
gazza73 said:
Steve W said:
When it comes to cameras others are trying to push beyond Sony but Canon isn't one of them. Nikon, Panasonic, Fujifilm are all trying to build the best camera in the mirrorless segment (even though Fujifilm is doing in APS-C). Canon is all about maximizing profits it appears and not about offering great cameras.

Steve W
Click to expand...
My opinion is too many people choose cameras by listening to YouTubers and obsessively comparing spec sheets.

I honestly think that while some cameras may have a little more of this or a bit less of that, its actually a pretty level playing field when it comes to their ability to product amazing images.

Maximising profit is a way of the world and very evident in photography circles from all manufacturers when looking at the cost of recent camera releases (falling) vs the cost of the lenses (rising). Camera sales and technology plateau's so the shift is on bigger, better, faster and ultimately more expensive lenses.

It's evident looking at the upcoming lens forecast is that Canon mean business when it comes to mirrorless but I don't get the same impression any longer from Sony. Where is the A7SIII or the A9R? My A7Riii is a great camera but really only a facelift A7Rii from 2015. Are Sony just waiting to stamp on Canon's pro range of R cameras with their next jump in camera technology or will it just release another fast 50mm lens?

And thats my point..... Its very likely we'll get lots coming from Canon in the next few years but anyones guess what Sony will do and why I have trust issues.
Click to expand...
On Canon the next 9 months I think will tell if they plan offering a leading edge camera I think (or maybe that is hope). Same may be true of Sony to see if they can deliver another winner to market. On your comment on the A7RIII I don't agree. I personally think the A7RIII was much more than a face lift from the A7RII (I have owned both). Its add a great AF system, great battery system, continued a phenomenal sensor, and added two card slots. It basically became as good and reliable camera as my 5D Mark IV in a lot of ways with a better sensor. And that is all without talking about full frame video. With the new firmware it will get even better.

I think Sony has not share the A7SIII or A9R because none of their competitors has truly bested them or they are really not the right cameras right now. Maybe with the Olympics the a9ii takes higher priority. What do you think?

Finally, come on Canon show us what your capable. Can you define and build the one of the best mirrorless camera bodies out there? Your lens team hopes you can.

Steve W
Click to expand...
The a7r3 is a great a great camera and improves upon the a7r2. I was very close to getting one. Canon, I think, is just now throwing their net out to catch non-professionals who are already invested in Canon lenses. Stop the drain to Sony. They are not in a rush at the professional end but will eventually offer an alternative to their current flagship. And professionals (as well as the companies they work for and who provide the gear) will happily take that camera and continue to use their existing lenses. Sony will have a really hard time getting those customers. Neither an A7SII or A9R will change that. Plus Canon will put new lenses on the table which will even give more appeal to their cameras.
 
I guess the final point I want to make is that from Canon I currently own the 5 D Mark IV. I don't plan to buy another DSLR of any kind I think at this point (that is unless I have a need for a 1Dx type of camera). And I don't plan to buy a mirrorless body as my primary camera unless it is as good as a 5D Mark IV or in reality better or an evolution. So if Canon does produce one I will look. The key question will be then will there be any Canon glass I own that draws me in? Hard to tell.

Steve W
 
Just curious as to what specifically you are looking for in a "pro level" R body from Canon that would entice you:

I am guessing this as a start:

1) two card slots

2) Better Eye Auto Focus

3) More FPS - How many would you like to see?

4) Bring back the joystick (I like the touchscreen myself)

If you are a videographer then the list gets longer but I am not into video so I will leave those to the video experts out there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top