Good grief this removes all doubt that the M4/3 brand is built on lies.
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Canon declare Low End FF (PRICE WAR), Nikon Sony respond? APS-C squeeze
- Thread starter 007peter
- Start date
I am familiar with this article. F2.8 is F5.6 when you refer to depth of field not in light.
Based on your claim Mobile sensors would get almost 0 light ... but a mirale you get very nice light there. why cause F1.8 in mobile is still F1.8 when related to light ... in DOF you are completely right.
I get magic results with this lies vs my 5DSR FF... so i assume you never tried this "lie" and you stick to specs ...
An F2.8 lens is an F2.8 lens no matter the size of the sensor ...the exposure is the same .....But that exposure is the same pr square MM of sensor (or what ever unit of area measurement you want to use) for all sensor formats ....BUT as a FF sensor has 4 times the area as a m43 sensor .... so overall the FF is getting a total of 2 x the light that's why noise is 2x or 2 stops worse on m43 than FF..(with same gen of sensor for both) you mention phone sensors ...well when the phone is not doing very trendy stuff like stacking multiple photos and using the latest sensors phones are pants in low light ...
the Fact that small sensors of the same gen are more noisy at the same settings is well known and irrefutable so yes a mobile sensor hardly gets any light (total) compared to FF
DarnGoodPhotos
Forum Pro
- Messages
- 12,416
- Solutions
- 5
- Reaction score
- 7,947
What lie are you talking about?
Equivalence applies to field of view and depth of field, but not light gathering.
m4/3 is noisier than full frame, but that has nothing to do with the lens.
sportyaccordy
Forum Pro
Users were so happy with it Canon made an early and unprecedented price cut
yes you are correct but a bigger sensor will capture more of it ...what will receive the most total ight from the sun ... .. a tennis court ot a football field
--
Attention Dislexsic i mean dyslexic person... This post will have many although spell checked, spelling and grammatical errs ..its The best its going get so no need to tell me its bad i know it is .....................................................................................................
My 5D IS a MK1 classic
..........................................................................................................
There is no argument for FF vs APS-c (or m43) with shallow DOF..as it's a law of physics and a very subjective personal thing if you want to make use of the shallow DOF only FF can offer
...........................................................................................................
Political correctness....somebody being offended on someone else's behalf....who that someone doesn't give a damn in the first place ....David Appleton
..................................................................................................
quoting irrefutable facts may get you branded a racist ..even if no race is involved .......David Appleton
.....................................................................................................
The word ‘racism’ is like ketchup. It can be put on practically anything — and demanding evidence makes you a ‘racist.’”........Thomas Sowell
Last edited:
R
rrccad
Guest
Not really. it went on sale 17-18 months after it came out for black friday sales.
it's nearly 2 years old now.
You’re living in cognitive dissonance because you willfully ignore that the system as a whole requires 2X more light for the same image quality.
Using smaller sensors can make sense from a price to perfromance perspective, it’s a much easier upgrade path to buy a capable but reasonably priced body early on and just get a nice fast lens once you want better low light capabilities, but those lenses (2 stops brighter at the same Field Of View) don’t actually exist on M4/3. Fuji is the only company I know of actually aiming to give their crop system a fighting chance against Full Frame.
Panasonic has done an excellent job of marketing their cameras by giving them high end Cinema features at extremely competitive prices, but they NEED to do that because of the inherent deficiencies in the M4/3 system.
A Full Frmae camera with the same feature set as the GH5 would probably fetch twice as much money... Thus the L Mount.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/im...t=1&x=0.1725704867855671&y=0.4727127052419001
Some people really need to give their head a shake and snap back into reality.
Some people really need to give their head a shake and snap back into reality.
DarnGoodPhotos
Forum Pro
- Messages
- 12,416
- Solutions
- 5
- Reaction score
- 7,947
Nonsense, that's why I said "m4/3 is noisier than full frame,"
Of course there are many situations where full Rame does not provide a low light advantage. Shooting at f1.4 in low light makes gives you such a shallow depth of field that you often have to stop down to more of the scene in focus; in this case the noise between m4/3 f1.4 and full frame f2.8 is the same.
--
www.darngoodphotos.com
Last edited:
actually 4x the light sensitivity because 2 stops is 4x.
yea. Coincidentally it’s 2 stops more noise for an equivant lens on a m43 sensor vs equivalent lens on a FF sensor. I.e. the image taken on a m43 with 35mm F1.4 at ISO 100 will look like 70mm AOV on FF, F2.8 DOF, and ISO 400 in terms of noise. There’s no free lunch. It’s not just shallow DOF choice you lose going to m43 vs FF. You don’t magically get the same IQ in a smaller package. If people think for example that ISO 3200 is as good to their eye as ISO 800 then m43 is a good option for them.
Good catch.
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/B01LW4IFUI/ep0cb-20/
https://www.amazon.com/Canon-50mm-1-8-STM-Lens/dp/B00X8MRBCW
I’m sure everyone is just thrilled about the great opportunities that the M4/3 system provides.
https://www.ephotozine.com/article/top-39-best-lenses-for-micro-four-thirds-cameras-2018-30039
Ok, I’ll admit, Sigma has some nice lenses for not “as much” money, but for a photographer, the Canon 50mm f1.8 on the EOS-RP is probably actually the lightest system on the market for the capabilities, and extremely price competitive.
Maybe, but I'll bet the X-T30 + 35mm 1.4, or the a6400 + Sigma 30mm 1.4, or even an M50 + 32mm 1.4 EF-M, would trump that EOS RP + 50mm 1.8.
Not that I'm against Canon, or FF, for that matter. It's just that the 50mm 1.8 is just plain crap at 1.8. Now the EOS RP + 35mm 1.8, would be a much better comparison, and competition against the X-T30 + 23mm 1.4 or the a6400 + 24mm 1.8.
For 35mm, I want the RP, but for a portable 50mm eq. lens at that price point? I'll take the APS-C option please... at least until Canon releases a 50mm 1.8 version of the 35mm RF.
DarnGoodPhotos
Forum Pro
- Messages
- 12,416
- Solutions
- 5
- Reaction score
- 7,947
Last edited:
This sword has two edges. On one hand, very often, you have more DOF with a smaller format that you would want. For example, with all this "reach", you may want to isolate your subject better than f/9 or so. I know it because even my 100-400 on FF suffers form this very often. With a smaller format, you are stuck with that deeper DOF and all the noise associated with it.
With f/1.4 on m43 - first, that is a luxury and there are no such zooms, for example. In the FF world, you can cover 16-200mm with three zooms, and some overlapping. Next, m43 sensors are slightly better at equivalent ISOs, but at f/1.4 some light is lost dues to microlens vignetting and a lot of light is lost due to lens vignetting. The microlens vignetting is not such a problem in FF at f/2.8 and the lens vignetting could be for f/2.8 zooms but not for faster primes. Also, f/2.8 on FF is typically incredibly sharp unlike wide open on m43.
sportyaccordy
Forum Pro
I shoot with an F/1.4 lens in low light and have never had to stop down for more DoF. Wide angle lenses like my 35 provide plenty of DoF wide open. This is a long debunked M43 strawman, further invalidated by the existence of even faster lenses. Is F/1.4 on FF much different from F/0.95 on M43? Not really.
And like JACS said the advantages go beyond light gathering.
--
Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/
Last edited:
It is a big mistake to assume that larger sensor is always better.
Larger sensors cannot be so easily stabilised. Larger sensors need larger lenses, generally speaking. This makes hand-holding sometimes trickier.
Image Quality and Dynamic Range fall as you increase the ISO.
So, 200 ISO on, say , an Olympus Em1 mk2, is effectively going to deliver identical image quality and dynamic range to a Canon EOS R at 800 ISO. Yet the Olympus has 5 stops of IBIS. The Canon, with a kit lens with IS, maybe 2-3 stops.
So there will be situations where IQ of the Olympus EM1 mk2 is SUPERIOR to the Canon EOS R.
It also depends on if you want to crop . Or not.
But in good weather and in average light, the FF image will be better for cropping or large enlargements.
It should also be remembered that FF image quality is rather a waste of time if all you do is view on an iPad or electronic device.
The bottom line is that if you are taking family holiday pictures at Disney in good light, your Canon Rebel or EOS 80D is just as good. You won't see a difference.
Mind you, let us also not forget that buying gear is fun. Maybe that is enough.
Larger sensors cannot be so easily stabilised. Larger sensors need larger lenses, generally speaking. This makes hand-holding sometimes trickier.
Image Quality and Dynamic Range fall as you increase the ISO.
So, 200 ISO on, say , an Olympus Em1 mk2, is effectively going to deliver identical image quality and dynamic range to a Canon EOS R at 800 ISO. Yet the Olympus has 5 stops of IBIS. The Canon, with a kit lens with IS, maybe 2-3 stops.
So there will be situations where IQ of the Olympus EM1 mk2 is SUPERIOR to the Canon EOS R.
It also depends on if you want to crop . Or not.
But in good weather and in average light, the FF image will be better for cropping or large enlargements.
It should also be remembered that FF image quality is rather a waste of time if all you do is view on an iPad or electronic device.
The bottom line is that if you are taking family holiday pictures at Disney in good light, your Canon Rebel or EOS 80D is just as good. You won't see a difference.
Mind you, let us also not forget that buying gear is fun. Maybe that is enough.
If you are shooting at the same ISO the point you made is partially true. But it ignores reality.
With an Olympus EM1 mk2 you have 5 stops of IBIS. With a EM1 X you have 7 stops of IBIS.
200 ISO on the Olympus is going to give you at least equal IQ and DRO to a 6DII or EOS R/ RP at 800 ISO. If you take the Canon above 800 ISO, the M4.3 Oly will be superior.
There will be times when the better IBIS of the Oly will achieve this. Shutter speed is therefore a factor of course as will be the widest aperture of the lens you are using.
But my point is that saying "m4/3 is noisier than full frame" is not entirely correct , it really depends on various factors.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum