What is a good portable tracker mount?

rnclark said:

Nice list. It would be nice to add other details for all, like tracking accuracy, total weight.

A couple of comments:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

Those mini guiders would indeed be perfect for these lens setups.

I have pretty much concluded my research on the latest available mounts/trackers.

Firstly, wow there are a lot of them. It used to be Takahashi Teegul or Kenko Skymemo and Polarie and thats about it.

Now there are:

1 Skywatcher Star Adventurer which is arguably best bang for your buck. Tends to get good reviews. 200mm may be the limit.

2. IOptron has a few different models. Opinions vary about their quality.

3. Vixen Polarie - I have one of these and its a good little performer. 200mm lens is probably the limit and even then not much more than 30 seconds. With the counterbalance upgrade perhaps a bit more. I don't know.

4. Astrotrac - one of the best performers. More expensive though.

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Tangent arm design limit tracking to (check number) about 2 hours.

tracking accuracy 5 arc-sec peak-peak (cheack over X time.

rnclark said:

5. LighTrack ii - the new king of this type of mount. Perhaps the limit here is flexure.

1-2 minutes 300mm sounds like close to its limits. You can autoguide in 1 axis though.

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Tangent arm design limit tracking to (check number) a little less than 2 hours.

Tracking accuracy /- 1 arc-second

Not sure where you get the idea of flexure. I haven't seen any. It is more solid than the astrotrac--the arms have about doublt the thickness. With 1-arc sec tracking the time limit is certainly much more than 1-2 minutes. In fact, seems limited only by polar alignment accuracy. My most recent image, Seagull Nebula was made with wind gusts to 30 mph. I could not have made this image with the astrotrac under those conditions, not many other light mounts.

rnclark said:

6. Unitec Swat 310 and 350 - sub +/- 7 arc second tracking, small and compact, lots of high end beautifully made accessories. Expensive. Japanese.

Believe it or not the SWAT 350 has a 15kg load limit. Wow. Its the size of an Ipad.

7. Toast Technologies - TP-2 - Similar to the SWAT 200 which is no longer made. Unitec accessories can fit them. Cheaper than SWAT 310. 5kg load limit, sub +/- 7 arc second tracking. Well made. They have a Toast Delicious prototype and if that made it to market it would be awesome. Polar alignment via GPS - so easy.

8.Jilva -170 - similar to Swat but larger and heavier but still portable. 4 arc sec tracking.Japanese.

9. Kenko Skymemo - no longer made and the new Skymemo 2 is merely a rebranded Star Adventurer.

10. Vixen has a small dual axis GEM which should be considered in this class. More expensive than a lot of these though and a bit less portable.

11. Takahashi EM11 Temma 2 - getting a bit larger now and less portable but its one of their smallest and lightest mounts and Tak quality speaks for itself. Expensive.

For me wanting to either get a lightweight GEM to run one of these new William Optics 250mm F4.9 petsval lenses and be able to do 5 minute exposures I would have to get something high performing. LighTrack ii can also be autoguided.

I also have a 300mm F4 double ED lens I want to image with on the same setup at my dark site.

So I decided to go for overmounting a bit and go for a HEQ5 Pro mount which after research seem to be good and they are inexpensive - about the same as Lightrack ii (obviously not as portable).

The remaining question is whether to upgrade my Vixen Polarie (counterweights, wedge, different body mounting unit) or get a LighTrack ii for nightscape work and shorter focal lengths.

The Polarie has been good. If I could upgrade it cheaply enough it would be a simple decision but the upgrade cost is about AUD$600 which is what I paid for it plus the polar scope.

There are also some other Japanese manufacturers who offer some upgrade parts as well for the Polarie.

Greg.

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Alen K said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

EricTheAstroJunkie said:

I think you misunderstood what I was talking about, I wouldn't ever put a lens or scope greater than 600mm on a portable mount and I wouldn't recommend going over 450mm in most cases. What I was talking about was the mini guidescope, which is more than sufficient for accurate guiding of lenses/scopes of that focal length.

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Oh I see Eric.

Those mini guiders would indeed be perfect for these lens setups.

I have pretty much concluded my research on the latest available mounts/trackers.

Firstly, wow there are a lot of them. It used to be Takahashi Teegul or Kenko Skymemo and Polarie and thats about it.

Now there are:

1 Skywatcher Star Adventurer which is arguably best bang for your buck. Tends to get good reviews. 200mm may be the limit.

2. IOptron has a few different models. Opinions vary about their quality.

3. Vixen Polarie - I have one of these and its a good little performer. 200mm lens is probably the limit and even then not much more than 30 seconds. With the counterbalance upgrade perhaps a bit more. I don't know.

4. Astrotrac - one of the best performers. More expensive though.

5. LighTrack ii - the new king of this type of mount. Perhaps the limit here is flexure.

1-2 minutes 300mm sounds like close to its limits. You can autoguide in 1 axis though.

6. Unitec Swat 310 and 350 - sub +/- 7 arc second tracking, small and compact, lots of high end beautifully made accessories. Expensive. Japanese.

Believe it or not the SWAT 350 has a 15kg load limit. Wow. Its the size of an Ipad.

7. Toast Technologies - TP-2 - Similar to the SWAT 200 which is no longer made. Unitec accessories can fit them. Cheaper than SWAT 310. 5kg load limit, sub +/- 7 arc second tracking. Well made. They have a Toast Delicious prototype and if that made it to market it would be awesome. Polar alignment via GPS - so easy.

8.Jilva -170 - similar to Swat but larger and heavier but still portable. 4 arc sec tracking.Japanese.

9. Kenko Skymemo - no longer made and the new Skymemo 2 is merely a rebranded Star Adventurer.

10. Vixen has a small dual axis GEM which should be considered in this class. More expensive than a lot of these though and a bit less portable.

11. Takahashi EM11 Temma 2 - getting a bit larger now and less portable but its one of their smallest and lightest mounts and Tak quality speaks for itself. Expensive.

For me wanting to either get a lightweight GEM to run one of these new William Optics 250mm F4.9 petsval lenses and be able to do 5 minute exposures I would have to get something high performing. LighTrack ii can also be autoguided.

I also have a 300mm F4 double ED lens I want to image with on the same setup at my dark site.

So I decided to go for overmounting a bit and go for a HEQ5 Pro mount which after research seem to be good and they are inexpensive - about the same as Lightrack ii (obviously not as portable).

The remaining question is whether to upgrade my Vixen Polarie (counterweights, wedge, different body mounting unit) or get a LighTrack ii for nightscape work and shorter focal lengths.

The Polarie has been good. If I could upgrade it cheaply enough it would be a simple decision but the upgrade cost is about AUD$600 which is what I paid for it plus the polar scope.

There are also some other Japanese manufacturers who offer some upgrade parts as well for the Polarie.

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DIY is the least expensive upgrade path for the Polarie. Increased weight capacity should be the same as Vixen's kit.

In your list of trackers you actually missed a few at the lower weight capacity, lower focal length end. But those won't meet your needs so maybe you know of them but simply did not list them.

Another option for others considering a tracker, maybe not yourself, is something far from obvious, and that is Astrotracer. It could be considered another type of tracker that requires buying a new camera with it ( :-D ). In terms of weight capacity (the limit is your tripod) and focal length (I have seen good results with 300mm) it slots right into the list. Personally, I have routinely done 200mm at 60 seconds (I don't have a 300mm lens for Pentax), example here . I don't feel I need to buy a tracker. It has functionally replaced my old setup here . I use my GP-DX (comparable to HEQ5) now only for through-the-telescope stuff.

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rnclark said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

I am looking at upgrading my portable mount so I can use a 300mm lens on a full frame mirrorless with round stars at 30-60 second exposures.

It may need autoguiding but perhaps not.

Weight would be around 2 kgs.

I was looking at a Skywatcher Adventurer which seems pretty cheap, comes with a polar alignment scope and counter weight and shaft and I believe can use an autoguider.

What other alternatives would you suggest?

My Vixen Polarie is fine with lighter lenses up to 100mm but beyond that and longer exposures its starting to go outside its abilities.

I don't mind spending $1000-1500 as it will get a lot of use and I don't want cheap and nasty and mediocre results. I would prefer not to autoguide as that is power supply, computer, guide scope and a guide camera.

Greg.

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My portable setups: Fornax Lightrack II or Astrotrac

I am liking the Fornax better--better in wind. Tracking accuracy is technically better than most things out there. The plot on their web page, http://fornaxmounts.com/lightrack-ii-mount.html#parentVerticalTab1 shows +/- 1 arc second over 8 minutes. My experience so far is tracking is limited only by polar alignment. I have yet to see a great polar scope on on any mount under $2K. I usually use my 300 f/2.8 with TCs and Canon 7D2.

Roger

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Astrophotographer 10 said:

Yes I wasn't referring to the actual LighTrack for flexure but the other component parts like ball heads and connections. It would pay to have the strongest payload capacity surrounding components as well to preserve that great tracking accuracy.

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That is good to know about the winds and your LighTrack. 30mph winds are very strong. To be clear said:

rnclark, post: 62384801, member: 974868"]
My portable setups: Fornax Lightrack II or Astrotrac

I am liking the Fornax better--better in wind. Tracking accuracy is technically better than most things out there. The plot on their web page, http://fornaxmounts.com/lightrack-ii-mount.html#parentVerticalTab1 shows +/- 1 arc second over 8 minutes. My experience so far is tracking is limited only by polar alignment. I have yet to see a great polar scope on on any mount under $2K. I usually use my 300 f/2.8 with TCs and Canon 7D2.

Roger

Click to expand...

Speaking of that - how is the LighTrack polar scope? Is it ok? Pehaps a Polemaster may be better if the polar scope is only so so.

Click to expand...

Astrophotographer 10 said:

The Vixen Polar scope is quite good. They have a newer model out and it appears to be even better with an auto illumination shut off once you remove your eye from the polar scope. Plus it uses 3 star alignments.

Click to expand...

Astrophotographer 10 said:

rnclark said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

I am looking at upgrading my portable mount so I can use a 300mm lens on a full frame mirrorless with round stars at 30-60 second exposures.

It may need autoguiding but perhaps not.

Weight would be around 2 kgs.

I was looking at a Skywatcher Adventurer which seems pretty cheap, comes with a polar alignment scope and counter weight and shaft and I believe can use an autoguider.

What other alternatives would you suggest?

My Vixen Polarie is fine with lighter lenses up to 100mm but beyond that and longer exposures its starting to go outside its abilities.

I don't mind spending $1000-1500 as it will get a lot of use and I don't want cheap and nasty and mediocre results. I would prefer not to autoguide as that is power supply, computer, guide scope and a guide camera.

Greg.

Click to expand...

My portable setups: Fornax Lightrack II or Astrotrac

I am liking the Fornax better--better in wind. Tracking accuracy is technically better than most things out there. The plot on their web page, http://fornaxmounts.com/lightrack-ii-mount.html#parentVerticalTab1 shows +/- 1 arc second over 8 minutes. My experience so far is tracking is limited only by polar alignment. I have yet to see a great polar scope on on any mount under $2K. I usually use my 300 f/2.8 with TCs and Canon 7D2.

Roger

Click to expand...

Speaking of that - how is the LighTrack polar scope? Is it ok? Pehaps a Polemaster may be better if the polar scope is only so so.

The Vixen Polar scope is quite good. They have a newer model out and it appears to be even better with an auto illumination shut off once you remove your eye from the polar scope. Plus it uses 3 star alignments.

Greg.

Click to expand...

rnclark said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

Yes I wasn't referring to the actual LighTrack for flexure but the other component parts like ball heads and connections. It would pay to have the strongest payload capacity surrounding components as well to preserve that great tracking accuracy.

Click to expand...

But that applies to any of the mounts/trackers you listed, so why just list it as a problem with the Fornax? As weight and focal length increase, one should not use a ball head. Instead use a balanced system, either a declination arm with counterweight or a gimbal head. I use a gimbal head and both the Fornax and Astrotrac work very well with it. One can reposition when the end of the arm is reached by simply moving in RA (see Figure 7b of my article on the Fornax and Astrotrac. If you include a leveling wedge (as shown in Figure 7a) then re-centering is more complex with field rotation between frames. but centers the load close to the tripod center.

That is good to know about the winds and your LighTrack. 30mph winds are very strong.[/QUOTE] To be clear said:

rnclark said:

rnclark, post: 62385489, member: 1422917"]
My portable setups: Fornax Lightrack II or Astrotrac

I am liking the Fornax better--better in wind. Tracking accuracy is technically better than most things out there. The plot on their web page, http://fornaxmounts.com/lightrack-ii-mount.html#parentVerticalTab1 shows +/- 1 arc second over 8 minutes. My experience so far is tracking is limited only by polar alignment. I have yet to see a great polar scope on on any mount under $2K. I usually use my 300 f/2.8 with TCs and Canon 7D2.

Roger

Click to expand...

Speaking of that - how is the LighTrack polar scope? Is it ok? Pehaps a Polemaster may be better if the polar scope is only so so.

Click to expand...

Yes, but just OK--not great. It is similar to the polar scope for the Astrotrac. On the Lightrack, the stars do not quite line up with the reticle so precision alignment is not easy--a guessing game. It is good enough for 1-minute exposures at 300 to 400 mm. But for better alignment a different way is needed. I do this rough alignment, then check and refine it with drift alignment. Drift alignment is the only way from low latitude locations as atmospheric refraction would mean position error on sight alone.

rnclark said:

The Vixen Polar scope is quite good. They have a newer model out and it appears to be even better with an auto illumination shut off once you remove your eye from the polar scope. Plus it uses 3 star alignments.

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That sounds good. Batteries dying are not good in the field. Do you have a link?

But what I see needed is about a 3-degree field, a little more aperture and magnification to align on stars closer to the pole for better accuracy.

Polar alignment accuracy is the weak point in tracking at 200+ mm with any mount.

Roger

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Pogo65 said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

rnclark said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

I am looking at upgrading my portable mount so I can use a 300mm lens on a full frame mirrorless with round stars at 30-60 second exposures.

It may need autoguiding but perhaps not.

Weight would be around 2 kgs.

I was looking at a Skywatcher Adventurer which seems pretty cheap, comes with a polar alignment scope and counter weight and shaft and I believe can use an autoguider.

What other alternatives would you suggest?

My Vixen Polarie is fine with lighter lenses up to 100mm but beyond that and longer exposures its starting to go outside its abilities.

I don't mind spending $1000-1500 as it will get a lot of use and I don't want cheap and nasty and mediocre results. I would prefer not to autoguide as that is power supply, computer, guide scope and a guide camera.

Greg.

Click to expand...

My portable setups: Fornax Lightrack II or Astrotrac

I am liking the Fornax better--better in wind. Tracking accuracy is technically better than most things out there. The plot on their web page, http://fornaxmounts.com/lightrack-ii-mount.html#parentVerticalTab1 shows +/- 1 arc second over 8 minutes. My experience so far is tracking is limited only by polar alignment. I have yet to see a great polar scope on on any mount under $2K. I usually use my 300 f/2.8 with TCs and Canon 7D2.

Roger

Click to expand...

Speaking of that - how is the LighTrack polar scope? Is it ok? Pehaps a Polemaster may be better if the polar scope is only so so.

The Vixen Polar scope is quite good. They have a newer model out and it appears to be even better with an auto illumination shut off once you remove your eye from the polar scope. Plus it uses 3 star alignments.

Greg.

Click to expand...

I use a polar scope from IOptron with my Lighttrack and there are different options you can fit. I also bought a bracket from Lighttrack directly that will allow me to more precisely align the polar scope with the RA rotation axis. I get quite good polar alignments that way, more that good enough for a 200 or 300mm lens. I also sometimes use a Polemaster, which works perfectly as well.

Peter

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Astrophotographer 10 said:

Pogo65 said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

rnclark said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

I am looking at upgrading my portable mount so I can use a 300mm lens on a full frame mirrorless with round stars at 30-60 second exposures.

It may need autoguiding but perhaps not.

Weight would be around 2 kgs.

I was looking at a Skywatcher Adventurer which seems pretty cheap, comes with a polar alignment scope and counter weight and shaft and I believe can use an autoguider.

What other alternatives would you suggest?

My Vixen Polarie is fine with lighter lenses up to 100mm but beyond that and longer exposures its starting to go outside its abilities.

I don't mind spending $1000-1500 as it will get a lot of use and I don't want cheap and nasty and mediocre results. I would prefer not to autoguide as that is power supply, computer, guide scope and a guide camera.

Greg.

Click to expand...

My portable setups: Fornax Lightrack II or Astrotrac

I am liking the Fornax better--better in wind. Tracking accuracy is technically better than most things out there. The plot on their web page, http://fornaxmounts.com/lightrack-ii-mount.html#parentVerticalTab1 shows +/- 1 arc second over 8 minutes. My experience so far is tracking is limited only by polar alignment. I have yet to see a great polar scope on on any mount under $2K. I usually use my 300 f/2.8 with TCs and Canon 7D2.

Roger

Click to expand...

Speaking of that - how is the LighTrack polar scope? Is it ok? Pehaps a Polemaster may be better if the polar scope is only so so.

The Vixen Polar scope is quite good. They have a newer model out and it appears to be even better with an auto illumination shut off once you remove your eye from the polar scope. Plus it uses 3 star alignments.

Greg.

Click to expand...

I use a polar scope from IOptron with my Lighttrack and there are different options you can fit. I also bought a bracket from Lighttrack directly that will allow me to more precisely align the polar scope with the RA rotation axis. I get quite good polar alignments that way, more that good enough for a 200 or 300mm lens. I also sometimes use a Polemaster, which works perfectly as well.

Peter

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How does the Polemaster work?

Greg.

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1llusive said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

Pogo65 said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

rnclark said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

I am looking at upgrading my portable mount so I can use a 300mm lens on a full frame mirrorless with round stars at 30-60 second exposures.

It may need autoguiding but perhaps not.

Weight would be around 2 kgs.

I was looking at a Skywatcher Adventurer which seems pretty cheap, comes with a polar alignment scope and counter weight and shaft and I believe can use an autoguider.

What other alternatives would you suggest?

My Vixen Polarie is fine with lighter lenses up to 100mm but beyond that and longer exposures its starting to go outside its abilities.

I don't mind spending $1000-1500 as it will get a lot of use and I don't want cheap and nasty and mediocre results. I would prefer not to autoguide as that is power supply, computer, guide scope and a guide camera.

Greg.

Click to expand...

My portable setups: Fornax Lightrack II or Astrotrac

I am liking the Fornax better--better in wind. Tracking accuracy is technically better than most things out there. The plot on their web page, http://fornaxmounts.com/lightrack-ii-mount.html#parentVerticalTab1 shows +/- 1 arc second over 8 minutes. My experience so far is tracking is limited only by polar alignment. I have yet to see a great polar scope on on any mount under $2K. I usually use my 300 f/2.8 with TCs and Canon 7D2.

Roger

Click to expand...

Speaking of that - how is the LighTrack polar scope? Is it ok? Pehaps a Polemaster may be better if the polar scope is only so so.

The Vixen Polar scope is quite good. They have a newer model out and it appears to be even better with an auto illumination shut off once you remove your eye from the polar scope. Plus it uses 3 star alignments.

Greg.

Click to expand...

I use a polar scope from IOptron with my Lighttrack and there are different options you can fit. I also bought a bracket from Lighttrack directly that will allow me to more precisely align the polar scope with the RA rotation axis. I get quite good polar alignments that way, more that good enough for a 200 or 300mm lens. I also sometimes use a Polemaster, which works perfectly as well.

Peter

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How does the Polemaster work?

Greg.

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https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60534978

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Pogo65 said:

Found another one to add to the extensive list of trackers, this one tops them all as far as cost is concerned I believe, but nonetheless a very interesting option:

https://optcorp.com/products/hobym-crux-mini-computerized-german-equatorial-mount

Puts the cost of the upcoming AstroTrac 360 in some perspective.

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kotztar said:

You missed these portable mounts

Skywatcher Az-Gti in Eq mode (has goto)

SS-one Japanese mount

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kotztar said:

You missed these portable mounts

Skywatcher Az-Gti in Eq mode (has goto)

SS-one Japanese mount

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Pogo65 said:

the Skywatcher is an Alt/Az mount and as such not meant to be used in equatorial mode and thus not to be used as a photo mount for following the stars.

On the skywatcher website they state that it can be used for Timelapse photography.

Now you could probably use it in an equatorial fashion, although that is not mentioned on the website.

Best to use a mount that is meant to do that, plenty of them in Greg’s list.

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tradesmith45 said:

Pogo65 said:

the Skywatcher is an Alt/Az mount and as such not meant to be used in equatorial mode and thus not to be used as a photo mount for following the stars.

On the skywatcher website they state that it can be used for Timelapse photography.

Now you could probably use it in an equatorial fashion, although that is not mentioned on the website.

Best to use a mount that is meant to do that, plenty of them in Greg’s list.

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Thanks for the advice. Apparently others are using it w/ a wedge as an EQ mount & Skywatcher has a firmware update to facilitate that. Haven't seen images however. It has lots going for it, weight, price, alignment assist & GoTo which is handy. But as you suggest, the proof is in the images.

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