Warning! Rant about Win10!

XiaoDeer said:

Austinian said:

XiaoDeer said:

sygnus21 said:

I find the OP's post humorous, and agree with this sentiment....

Jeadm said:

Ignorance of something often breeds fear. Take control of what you don't know, risking nothing in the process, and find out for yourself. Don't let internet fear mongering, of which there is no shortage, rule you.

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Out

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How does one take control over that which is transmitted over Windows telemetry?

It's encrypted so I can't see/control it even with a packet sniffer.

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https://www.ghacks.net/2018/11/23/german-federal-office-bsi-publishes-telemetry-analysis/

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This is beyond 99.999% of Windows users.

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If you care enough to make a big fuss about telemetry, you should care enough to learn about it.

XiaoDeer said:

And it would only get them part way to deciphering SOME of the data being transmitted by an OLD version of Windows.

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In-depth analyses (and this is very detailed) don't get done overnight.

XiaoDeer said:

Interesting stuff from an academic perspective but it fails to empower anyone to take control of the process as advocated by the other posters.

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Didn't even read the page I linked, eh? Where it says:

"Tip: An extra, German-only, paper is available that includes system-based and network-based options to limit or block the collection or transfer of Telemetry data to Microsoft."

Grab it and use online translation tools to enable you to implement their blocks. Then publish their techniques for all the complainers to use.

If I was half as upset about telemetry as some posters here claim to be, that's what I'd do. But it's all talk, no action, till I see someone actually do this.

I'm glad the OP labeled this thread a rant. That was mine. :-D

As an MS-DOS user, 1981, through all the iterations of it and all the iterations of Windows I have had the least problems with Win 10. Have been using it for 2.5 years. When it first came out bought an SSD loaded it on the SSD and have used it on that same SSD for 2.5 years. Have loaded EVERY update through those 2.5 years. Had only one problem, after one of the updates my front bay hot swap drive bay, which I use for 3 backup Hard drives, stopped working. That's the extent of my problems with Win 10. That was not a severe problem as my Thermaltake case has 4 hot swap bays built in. Just a little harder to get to. I have seen all the problems that users are having with Win 10, I, for the life of me cannot figure out why the are having all these problems. They either must be trying to use alien, esoteric software or hardware. Had they updated to Win 10 at the get-go, I skipped 8 and 8.1, and went straight to 10 from 7. and kept up with the updates I don't believe would have as many problems. I am not just blowing smoke here, I have been a computer tech since the late 70's. I am 82 now. When I first installed 10 it booted in 21 seconds. 2.5 years later, still boots in 21 seconds. Probably the cleanest running version of Windows I have ever used. Win 7, had to Defrag the registry frequently. Win 10 once a month. Other cleanup, Temp. files, cookies etc. the same frequency. All in all an great version of Windows. I believe you can download a version of Win 10 with most all of the updates. Check Microsoft's website.

Austinian said:

Austinian said:

Interesting stuff from an academic perspective but it fails to empower anyone to take control of the process as advocated by the other posters.

Click to expand...

Didn't even read the page I linked, eh? Where it says:

"Tip: An extra, German-only, paper is available that includes system-based and network-based options to limit or block the collection or transfer of Telemetry data to Microsoft."

Click to expand...

Yes, I looked at it. Don't understand German but I understood many of the registry, group policy and network references.

Austinian said:

Grab it and use online translation tools to enable you to implement their blocks. Then publish their techniques for all the complainers to use.

Click to expand...

Herculean effort for a low return. Not worth it. Easier to air gap my Win 10 machine or run it in a VM with no network adapter.

Austinian said:

If I was half as upset about telemetry as some posters here claim to be, that's what I'd do. But it's all talk, no action, till I see someone actually do this.

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Once again, it's a simple and straightforward request: give those who wish it an opportunity to opt out from the data collection. If you want to call that a rant, so be it.

But I will reiterate that such data collection has been abused over and over by smartphone makers, cellular carriers and app developers. That's a fact!

I would like to be in control of my privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices. Not have to reverse engineer a ton of code, install packet sniffers, break SSL encryption and more.

This is exactly what Microsoft purport to do:

"We will put you in control of your privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices."


How about they live up to their own claims?

XiaoDeer said:

Austinian said:

XiaoDeer said:

Interesting stuff from an academic perspective but it fails to empower anyone to take control of the process as advocated by the other posters.

Click to expand...

Didn't even read the page I linked, eh? Where it says:

"Tip: An extra, German-only, paper is available that includes system-based and network-based options to limit or block the collection or transfer of Telemetry data to Microsoft."

Click to expand...

Yes, I looked at it. Don't understand German but I understood many of the registry, group policy and network references.

XiaoDeer said:

Grab it and use online translation tools to enable you to implement their blocks. Then publish their techniques for all the complainers to use.

Click to expand...

Herculean effort for a low return. Not worth it. Easier to air gap my Win 10 machine or run it in a VM with no network adapter.

XiaoDeer said:

If I was half as upset about telemetry as some posters here claim to be, that's what I'd do. But it's all talk, no action, till I see someone actually do this.

Click to expand...

Once again, it's a simple and straightforward request: give those who wish it an opportunity to opt out from the data collection. If you want to call that a rant, so be it.

But I will reiterate that such data collection has been abused over and over by smartphone makers, cellular carriers and app developers. That's a fact!

I would like to be in control of my privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices. Not have to reverse engineer a ton of code, install packet sniffers, break SSL encryption and more.

Click to expand...

Those BSI guys already did that, and published the results.

XiaoDeer said:

This is exactly what Microsoft purport to do:

"We will put you in control of your privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices."

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/

How about they live up to their own claims?

Click to expand...

"Privacy" doesn't mean they can't collect any information at all from your Windows install. If you have specific information about Microsoft violating the claims shown in your link, you should publicize the details as best you can.

For example, if you don't think Windows 10 is GDPR-compliant, please detail Microsoft's violations to the EU. The EU has shown no reluctance at all to punish Microsoft.

Austinian said:

"Privacy" doesn't mean they can't collect any information at all from your Windows install. If you have specific information about Microsoft violating the claims shown in your link, you should publicize the details as best you can.

For example, if you don't think Windows 10 is GDPR-compliant, please detail Microsoft's violations to the EU. The EU has shown no reluctance at all to punish Microsoft.

Click to expand...

Who's ranting now? I didn't ask for a major International law suit and legal battle.

I just asked Microsoft to provide a simple option that is wholly consistent with their own privacy claims.

Clear, simple, reasonable!

Austinian said:

XiaoDeer said:

Austinian said:

Austinian said:

Interesting stuff from an academic perspective but it fails to empower anyone to take control of the process as advocated by the other posters.

Click to expand...

Didn't even read the page I linked, eh? Where it says:

"Tip: An extra, German-only, paper is available that includes system-based and network-based options to limit or block the collection or transfer of Telemetry data to Microsoft."

Click to expand...

Yes, I looked at it. Don't understand German but I understood many of the registry, group policy and network references.

Austinian said:

Grab it and use online translation tools to enable you to implement their blocks. Then publish their techniques for all the complainers to use.

Click to expand...

Herculean effort for a low return. Not worth it. Easier to air gap my Win 10 machine or run it in a VM with no network adapter.

Austinian said:

If I was half as upset about telemetry as some posters here claim to be, that's what I'd do. But it's all talk, no action, till I see someone actually do this.

Click to expand...

Once again, it's a simple and straightforward request: give those who wish it an opportunity to opt out from the data collection. If you want to call that a rant, so be it.

But I will reiterate that such data collection has been abused over and over by smartphone makers, cellular carriers and app developers. That's a fact!

I would like to be in control of my privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices. Not have to reverse engineer a ton of code, install packet sniffers, break SSL encryption and more.

Click to expand...

Those BSI guys already did that, and published the results.

Austinian said:

This is exactly what Microsoft purport to do:

"We will put you in control of your privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices."

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/

How about they live up to their own claims?

Click to expand...

"Privacy" doesn't mean they can't collect any information at all from your Windows install. If you have specific information about Microsoft violating the claims shown in your link, you should publicize the details as best you can.

For example, if you don't think Windows 10 is GDPR-compliant, please detail Microsoft's violations to the EU. The EU has shown no reluctance at all to punish Microsoft.

Click to expand...

Microsoft can't be GDPR non-compliant, because their EULA is written such that you have to give your consent for them to use your data before you can actually install Windows. That's how all these types of companies, google etc, circumnavigate the law. If the law actually really cared about your privacy they would force these companies to give you a choice prior to installation, clearly they don't.

XiaoDeer said:

Who's ranting now? I didn't ask for a major International law suit and legal battle.

I just asked Microsoft to provide a simple option that is wholly consistent with their own privacy claims.

Clear, simple, reasonable!

Click to expand...

They did. Just because you refuse to acknowledge or believe it doesn't make it untrue.

Anyway I find this whole "telemetry rage" a farce. Google's been using telemetry long before Windows 10, yet no one complained. Many carry Android smartphones and don't even think about the data being sent from it, yet we all love them. Let not even talk about Social media with all it's privacy flaws. Yet.... OMG!!! Microsoft is stealing my privacy!!!

C'mon man. This is simply nothing but a rant against Windows 10. Period.

absquatulate said:

Austinian said:

XiaoDeer said:

Austinian said:

Member said:

Interesting stuff from an academic perspective but it fails to empower anyone to take control of the process as advocated by the other posters.

Click to expand...

Didn't even read the page I linked, eh? Where it says:

"Tip: An extra, German-only, paper is available that includes system-based and network-based options to limit or block the collection or transfer of Telemetry data to Microsoft."

Click to expand...

Yes, I looked at it. Don't understand German but I understood many of the registry, group policy and network references.

Member said:

Grab it and use online translation tools to enable you to implement their blocks. Then publish their techniques for all the complainers to use.

Click to expand...

Herculean effort for a low return. Not worth it. Easier to air gap my Win 10 machine or run it in a VM with no network adapter.

Member said:

If I was half as upset about telemetry as some posters here claim to be, that's what I'd do. But it's all talk, no action, till I see someone actually do this.

Click to expand...

Once again, it's a simple and straightforward request: give those who wish it an opportunity to opt out from the data collection. If you want to call that a rant, so be it.

But I will reiterate that such data collection has been abused over and over by smartphone makers, cellular carriers and app developers. That's a fact!

I would like to be in control of my privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices. Not have to reverse engineer a ton of code, install packet sniffers, break SSL encryption and more.

Click to expand...

Those BSI guys already did that, and published the results.

Member said:

This is exactly what Microsoft purport to do:

"We will put you in control of your privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices."

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/

How about they live up to their own claims?

Click to expand...

"Privacy" doesn't mean they can't collect any information at all from your Windows install. If you have specific information about Microsoft violating the claims shown in your link, you should publicize the details as best you can.

For example, if you don't think Windows 10 is GDPR-compliant, please detail Microsoft's violations to the EU. The EU has shown no reluctance at all to punish Microsoft.

Click to expand...

Microsoft can't be GDPR non-compliant, because their EULA is written such that you have to give your consent for them to use your data before you can actually install Windows.

Click to expand...

Even when consent is given, the GDPR also has extensive regulations governing how the data can be stored and used.

sygnus21 said:

XiaoDeer said:

Who's ranting now? I didn't ask for a major International law suit and legal battle.

I just asked Microsoft to provide a simple option that is wholly consistent with their own privacy claims.

Clear, simple, reasonable!

Click to expand...

They did. Just because you refuse to acknowledge or believe it doesn't make it untrue.

Click to expand...

What I asked for was the option the to opt of out telemetry completely. They haven't provided any such option.

Member said:

Anyway I find this whole "telemetry rage" a farce. Google's been using telemetry long before Windows 10, yet no one complained. Many carry Android smartphones and don't even think about the data being sent from it, yet we all love them. Let not even talk about Social media with all it's privacy flaws. Yet.... OMG!!! Microsoft is stealing my privacy!!!

Click to expand...

Good grief. Who's ranting and raging? It was a simple request/hope.

As far as Google and social media are concerned... I guess you don't get out much because there have been thousands of complaints (maybe millions).

XiaoDeer said:

sygnus21 said:

I find the OP's post humorous, and agree with this sentiment....

Jeadm said:

Ignorance of something often breeds fear. Take control of what you don't know, risking nothing in the process, and find out for yourself. Don't let internet fear mongering, of which there is no shortage, rule you.

Click to expand...

Out

Click to expand...

How does one take control over that which is transmitted over Windows telemetry?

It's encrypted so I can't see/control it even with a packet sniffer.

As others have pointed out, Windows is becoming more and more like a smartphone operating system. And every week, we read of cases where carriers, vendors and app developers have abused their opportunity to collect and even sell data that was collected without the user's consent and in violation of the published terms.

The presense of telemetry (which in the case of Windows seem to permeate every corner of the system) absolutely creates security vulnerabilities. And it's only a matter of time before wild exploits are discovered.

All of this telemetry serves only Microsoft. Users should be given the opportunity to opt out entirely. Those who adore Microsoft and trust them completely are absolutely welcome to opt in and share everything they want, voluntarily.

Click to expand...

Anyone that uses Facebook, Google or Amazon services (or other similar) should not even consider worrying about Microsoft as anything you think they may do now or in the future those services will already have done it to you and significantly more. If people truly care about privacy they should delete their accounts and block all ip addresses from Facebook, Google and Amazon before worrying about windows telemetry.

absquatulate said:

Austinian said:

XiaoDeer said:

Austinian said:

Member said:

Interesting stuff from an academic perspective but it fails to empower anyone to take control of the process as advocated by the other posters.

Click to expand...

Didn't even read the page I linked, eh? Where it says:

"Tip: An extra, German-only, paper is available that includes system-based and network-based options to limit or block the collection or transfer of Telemetry data to Microsoft."

Click to expand...

Yes, I looked at it. Don't understand German but I understood many of the registry, group policy and network references.

Member said:

Grab it and use online translation tools to enable you to implement their blocks. Then publish their techniques for all the complainers to use.

Click to expand...

Herculean effort for a low return. Not worth it. Easier to air gap my Win 10 machine or run it in a VM with no network adapter.

Member said:

If I was half as upset about telemetry as some posters here claim to be, that's what I'd do. But it's all talk, no action, till I see someone actually do this.

Click to expand...

Once again, it's a simple and straightforward request: give those who wish it an opportunity to opt out from the data collection. If you want to call that a rant, so be it.

But I will reiterate that such data collection has been abused over and over by smartphone makers, cellular carriers and app developers. That's a fact!

I would like to be in control of my privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices. Not have to reverse engineer a ton of code, install packet sniffers, break SSL encryption and more.

Click to expand...

Those BSI guys already did that, and published the results.

Member said:

This is exactly what Microsoft purport to do:

"We will put you in control of your privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices."

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/

How about they live up to their own claims?

Click to expand...

"Privacy" doesn't mean they can't collect any information at all from your Windows install. If you have specific information about Microsoft violating the claims shown in your link, you should publicize the details as best you can.

For example, if you don't think Windows 10 is GDPR-compliant, please detail Microsoft's violations to the EU. The EU has shown no reluctance at all to punish Microsoft.

Click to expand...

Microsoft can't be GDPR non-compliant, because their EULA is written such that you have to give your consent for them to use your data before you can actually install Windows. That's how all these types of companies, google etc, circumnavigate the law. If the law actually really cared about your privacy they would force these companies to give you a choice prior to installation, clearly they don't.

Click to expand...

Which is why anything written in the EULA is void and not applicable nor legally enforceable in the EU. There is already legal precedent on this as well. If it is not on paper, and you are not forced to read it and sign before breaking the wrapper from the box (ie cannot return the software) it is not legally valid. Also, anything you can click agree for without reading, not legally enforceable.

XiaoDeer said:

Austinian said:

"Privacy" doesn't mean they can't collect any information at all from your Windows install. If you have specific information about Microsoft violating the claims shown in your link, you should publicize the details as best you can.

For example, if you don't think Windows 10 is GDPR-compliant, please detail Microsoft's violations to the EU. The EU has shown no reluctance at all to punish Microsoft.

Click to expand...

Who's ranting now? I didn't ask for a major International law suit and legal battle.

I just asked Microsoft to provide a simple option that is wholly consistent with their own privacy claims.

Clear, simple, reasonable!

Click to expand...

Why are you doing your asking here instead of at https://www.microsoft.com ?

Jeadm said:

kelpdiver said:

sygnus21 said:

And I'll say it again, owning a PC is an active endeavor, not a passive one. If you want to use a PC, lean to use the OS. Those arguing this haven't figured that out.

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sounds like an ad for OSX and Chrome.

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Indeed, for many people Chrome is just fine for their needs. But I wouldn't rush to declare sainthood for Apple (or any of these companies for that matter). OSX is closed source last I checked, so unless people are uber paranoid they also have to give Apple a lot of blind trust.

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oh, no halos for Apple - they pioneered these sort of data mining concerns. Just remarking to the notion that PC owners need to know their OS inside and out. Most use it as a means to an end, don't care so long as it doesn't reboot unannounced in the middle of working...again! I have millions of daily users, so I have to spend my day on the subject.

afterburn said:

Anyone that uses Facebook, Google or Amazon services (or other similar) should not even consider worrying about Microsoft as anything you think they may do now or in the future those services will already have done it to you and significantly more. If people truly care about privacy they should delete their accounts and block all ip addresses from Facebook, Google and Amazon before worrying about windows telemetry.

Click to expand...

Personally, I don't let my more sensitive info (banking, investments, taxes etc.) anywhere near those vendors (or my cellphone).

They really can't be trusted. And just to make the point... this just in:

XiaoDeer said:

Personally, I don't let my more sensitive info (banking, investments, taxes etc.) anywhere near those vendors (or my cellphone).

Click to expand...

So you don't use any electronic media? No cellphones? Never bank or shop online? Never used Google? Never used the internet? Wow!

Win 10 seems designed to make your PC act and function like your smartphone. Far beyond just running programs, managing hardware add ons and files. For me, more features and complications I don't need or use. Your needs may be different,

greg

sygnus21 said:

XiaoDeer said:

Personally, I don't let my more sensitive info (banking, investments, taxes etc.) anywhere near those vendors (or my cellphone).

Click to expand...

So you don't use any electronic media? No cellphones? Never bank or shop online? Never used Google? Never used the internet? Wow!

Click to expand...

there are quite a few options between your straw men.

My cell phone does no finance either.

plantdoc said:

Win 10 seems designed to make your PC act and function like your smartphone. Far beyond just running programs, managing hardware add ons and files. For me, more features and complications I don't need or use. Your needs may be different,

greg

Click to expand...

Microsoft has seen its preeminence slip in correlation with the rise of Google, Apple and FB. It read the tea-leaves and noted that Big Data was creating vast new wealth and power, and wanted in on that action. Gates built it, Balmer rode it, and Nadella has been tasked with saving it.

In trying to reduce their development costs while simultaneously fighting a losing battle on market share, MS tried mightily to make 10 the one OS to bind them all. That meant one product that would work on PCs, tablets and phones. Inevitably, that requires compromises. Arguably for all the ground it has to cover, it does pretty well. The Ten machines in my house are relatively unproblematic. What problems they do have usually stem from updates that are now mandatory - gone is the option to turn updates off. I'm trying to think of another product you buy that keeps essential control in the hands of its maker. Maybe that John Deere that you can't legally repair yourself?

I find Seven much easier to use and so far, there are no killer apps that make me want Ten. Fortunately, I don't need touch.

Given that all the privacy settings are natively set to off, I think its Pollyanna to imagine MS is not hoovering your data every bit as aggressively as any other company that has access to it.

Finally, the current push to get you to put all your data in the cloud is nakedly a plot to induce you to rent your own product. There really is a sucker born every minute.

kelpdiver said:

sygnus21 said:

XiaoDeer said:

Personally, I don't let my more sensitive info (banking, investments, taxes etc.) anywhere near those vendors (or my cellphone).

Click to expand...

So you don't use any electronic media? No cellphones? Never bank or shop online? Never used Google? Never used the internet? Wow!

Click to expand...

there are quite a few options between your straw men.

Click to expand...

Yeah.... disconnecting from the world and hiding under a rock. Now I know where your posts come from

Austinian said:

absquatulate said:

Austinian said:

XiaoDeer said:

Austinian said:

Austinian said:

Interesting stuff from an academic perspective but it fails to empower anyone to take control of the process as advocated by the other posters.

Click to expand...

Didn't even read the page I linked, eh? Where it says:

"Tip: An extra, German-only, paper is available that includes system-based and network-based options to limit or block the collection or transfer of Telemetry data to Microsoft."

Click to expand...

Yes, I looked at it. Don't understand German but I understood many of the registry, group policy and network references.

Austinian said:

Grab it and use online translation tools to enable you to implement their blocks. Then publish their techniques for all the complainers to use.

Click to expand...

Herculean effort for a low return. Not worth it. Easier to air gap my Win 10 machine or run it in a VM with no network adapter.

Austinian said:

If I was half as upset about telemetry as some posters here claim to be, that's what I'd do. But it's all talk, no action, till I see someone actually do this.

Click to expand...

Once again, it's a simple and straightforward request: give those who wish it an opportunity to opt out from the data collection. If you want to call that a rant, so be it.

But I will reiterate that such data collection has been abused over and over by smartphone makers, cellular carriers and app developers. That's a fact!

I would like to be in control of my privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices. Not have to reverse engineer a ton of code, install packet sniffers, break SSL encryption and more.

Click to expand...

Those BSI guys already did that, and published the results.

Austinian said:

This is exactly what Microsoft purport to do:

"We will put you in control of your privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices."

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/

How about they live up to their own claims?

Click to expand...

"Privacy" doesn't mean they can't collect any information at all from your Windows install. If you have specific information about Microsoft violating the claims shown in your link, you should publicize the details as best you can.

For example, if you don't think Windows 10 is GDPR-compliant, please detail Microsoft's violations to the EU. The EU has shown no reluctance at all to punish Microsoft.

Click to expand...

Microsoft can't be GDPR non-compliant, because their EULA is written such that you have to give your consent for them to use your data before you can actually install Windows.

Click to expand...

Even when consent is given, the GDPR also has extensive regulations governing how the data can be stored and used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Responsibility_and_accountability

Click to expand...

Of course, but those things are just standard good practice for any company worth its salt. If companies follow the ISO 27001 standard, and in Britain's case, the Data Protection Act ( in other countries, their own variant of) then they're covered anyway. The point is that to circumvent all these privacy laws all you need to do is be relatively clear about what you're going to do with the data and obtain the owners consent to do it. Unfortunately most people take a blase approach to giving their consent without thinking through the potential consequences of having no privacy.