Sigma 70 - 200 F/2.8 DG OS HSM Sport Review

But on the same chart if you compare at 200mm both lenses produce same size images.

So unless this test was done at infinity which I hardly doubt there is something wrong.

Another thing is that Tamron focus breathing is at every focal length but look at 100mm on this site. It looks like Tamron magnifies even more than Sigma. I find it hard to believe.
No the test it is not done a specific distance. The test is done on setting a specific focal length and moving to fill specifically the frame. So the reproduction is not affected by focus breathing. It is true that sharpness can differ based on the distance as there is a moving element for focusing. But it would be unrealistic to do thorought test on all distances. cameralabs.com usually a similar test at close focus and some on infinity.
That does not make any sense. Lets say they fill the target at 70mm and 200mm so they have to move the camera to a different distance in order to do it. Right? So in case of 70-200mm they have to move camera 3 times if they test at 70mm, 100mm, 135mm, 200mm.
Focus breathing will be visible if the distance was stict. That would produce different observations on lenses with different focal lenghts so it would not be possible to compare them if they had even slightly difference at focal lenghts.

Focus breathing is more affecting videographers and photographers who need more compression at close distances. Personally it is not an issue to care about, for others it is. But it is an issue that appears under specific circumstances and usage.
I shoot from the fixed distance and sometimes I want to get closer but I can't because my Tamron has focus breathing. So I have to crop, sometimes heavily. And that is on D500 which already crops.
I am waiting for the end of this month and hoping Sigma brings Nikon mount to the WPPI. But my biggest thing is actually focus speed. I am very happy with optics of Tamron. I can live with focus breathing. What I hate is the paint finish and the switches. I actually managed to move AF switch to off with the gaffer tape on top of the switch bank.
Yes the switches is an issue I have also encountered. Basically by moving out the camera from my bag there are some cases that the switch for AF has been set to manual. The paint finish hasn't been an issue for me. It is as new.
How long ago did you buy the lens?
 
Yeah, it looks like comparisons between the Canon, Sigma, and Tamron are reasonable. And we can use the Nikon review for an idea of what focal lengths the Nikon is best at and how the corners compare to the center, just can't say if it's better or worse than the Sigma yet.
Yes you can't compare due to different resolution of cameras. The Nikon has been tested on D810. Tamron and Sigma on 5DS R. Canon (the II version) on 5D Mark II. So only Tamron and Sigma can be compared on that site.
Just because one camera has higher resolution than another it doesn't mean results can't be compared. For example Canon 5DS R resolving power is not as good as Nikon D850. So results can be interpolated. IOW we should be able to get the idea.

Canon 70-200mm III was also tested on 5DS R.


Looks like Sigma beats it too at least in the center.
 
But on the same chart if you compare at 200mm both lenses produce same size images.

So unless this test was done at infinity which I hardly doubt there is something wrong.

Another thing is that Tamron focus breathing is at every focal length but look at 100mm on this site. It looks like Tamron magnifies even more than Sigma. I find it hard to believe.
No the test it is not done a specific distance. The test is done on setting a specific focal length and moving to fill specifically the frame. So the reproduction is not affected by focus breathing. It is true that sharpness can differ based on the distance as there is a moving element for focusing. But it would be unrealistic to do thorought test on all distances. cameralabs.com usually a similar test at close focus and some on infinity.
That does not make any sense. Lets say they fill the target at 70mm and 200mm so they have to move the camera to a different distance in order to do it. Right? So in case of 70-200mm they have to move camera 3 times if they test at 70mm, 100mm, 135mm, 200mm.
Yes that is what they are doing. Observe on one zoom lens the different focal lengths. The image remains almost the same.
Focus breathing will be visible if the distance was stict. That would produce different observations on lenses with different focal lenghts so it would not be possible to compare them if they had even slightly difference at focal lenghts.

Focus breathing is more affecting videographers and photographers who need more compression at close distances. Personally it is not an issue to care about, for others it is. But it is an issue that appears under specific circumstances and usage.
I shoot from the fixed distance and sometimes I want to get closer but I can't because my Tamron has focus breathing. So I have to crop, sometimes heavily. And that is on D500 which already crops.
It depends on what you shoot and how you shoot. I understand that you try to shoot near MFD. There indeed it is possible to have issues, due to focus breathing.
I am waiting for the end of this month and hoping Sigma brings Nikon mount to the WPPI. But my biggest thing is actually focus speed. I am very happy with optics of Tamron. I can live with focus breathing. What I hate is the paint finish and the switches. I actually managed to move AF switch to off with the gaffer tape on top of the switch bank.
Yes the switches is an issue I have also encountered. Basically by moving out the camera from my bag there are some cases that the switch for AF has been set to manual. The paint finish hasn't been an issue for me. It is as new.
How long ago did you buy the lens?
Exactly one year before.
 
Just because one camera has higher resolution than another it doesn't mean results can't be compared. For example Canon 5DS R resolving power is not as good as Nikon D850. So results can be interpolated. IOW we should be able to get the idea.

Canon 70-200mm III was also tested on 5DS R.

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-ef-70-200mm-f-2-8l-is-iii-usm-lens-review-32600

Looks like Sigma beats it too at least in the center.
We can compare Ephotozine's comparisons of the Canon III and Nikon FL to Lensrental's comparisons of the Canon II and Nikon FL (assuming the Canon II and III have the same sharpness, which seems to be the consensus). Perhaps this can allow for some form of normalization.

Ephotozine shows that at 200mm f2.8 in the center, the Canon hits 4000 LW/PH while the Nikon hits about 3400. At the edge, the Canon hits at least 3950, while the Nikon drops to about 2500. So the Canon is ~17.64% sharper in the center, and 58% sharper in the edges.

Looking at the Lensrentals test of the 70-200 fl, and using the 30lp/mm line, we see that the Nikon is at about 0.775 in the center, and 0.61 at the edge. The Canon is at 0.74 at the center, and 0.45 at the edge. So the Nikon is in reality 4.7% sharper in the center, and 35.6% sharper at the edge.

So if we scale Ephotozine's Nikon values appropriately, we get a score of 4188 for the center and 5354 for the edge.

Well... shoot. That makes no sense at all. Either the Canon III is way better than the Canon II, Lensrentals has spent hundreds of thousands on faulty test equipment, or Ephotozine's measurements aren't really comparable in any meaningful way.
 
Dustin Abbot just started his first look review of this beast. You guys should check it out. He shows a nice sample difference of a subject shot at 4 ft from sigma and tamron and you can clearly see a huge difference the sigma makes:

https://youtu.be/SKIxJrfQ6lI?t=740

I can't wait to see his image quality section next. Pretty impressive so far. B&H says the lens will be available for Nikon F mount in beginning of March so still quiet a while before I can buy it. Darn it :-D
 
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Just because one camera has higher resolution than another it doesn't mean results can't be compared. For example Canon 5DS R resolving power is not as good as Nikon D850. So results can be interpolated. IOW we should be able to get the idea.

Canon 70-200mm III was also tested on 5DS R.

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-ef-70-200mm-f-2-8l-is-iii-usm-lens-review-32600

Looks like Sigma beats it too at least in the center.
We can compare Ephotozine's comparisons of the Canon III and Nikon FL to Lensrental's comparisons of the Canon II and Nikon FL (assuming the Canon II and III have the same sharpness, which seems to be the consensus). Perhaps this can allow for some form of normalization.
I was thinking about the same thing. But I do have slight problem with that.
Ephotozine shows that at 200mm f2.8 in the center, the Canon hits 4000 LW/PH while the Nikon hits about 3400. At the edge, the Canon hits at least 3950, while the Nikon drops to about 2500. So the Canon is ~17.64% sharper in the center, and 58% sharper in the edges.

Looking at the Lensrentals test of the 70-200 fl, and using the 30lp/mm line, we see that the Nikon is at about 0.775 in the center, and 0.61 at the edge. The Canon is at 0.74 at the center, and 0.45 at the edge. So the Nikon is in reality 4.7% sharper in the center, and 35.6% sharper at the edge.

So if we scale Ephotozine's Nikon values appropriately, we get a score of 4188 for the center and 5354 for the edge.

Well... shoot. That makes no sense at all. Either the Canon III is way better than the Canon II, Lensrentals has spent hundreds of thousands on faulty test equipment, or Ephotozine's measurements aren't really comparable in any meaningful way.
Where did you actually get the numbers to start with? All I have seen is the actual MTF chart which does not list the numbers you mention. Since both lenses are above "excellent" which is number over 3000 usually and above .9 on the MTF chart it is hard to tell. EPhotozine on the other hand measures the same way as long as it has the equipment so even if their numbers are wrong they are still good for comparison purpose. ePhotozine unfortunately does not have the lens anymore to test on D850.
 
But on the same chart if you compare at 200mm both lenses produce same size images.

So unless this test was done at infinity which I hardly doubt there is something wrong.

Another thing is that Tamron focus breathing is at every focal length but look at 100mm on this site. It looks like Tamron magnifies even more than Sigma. I find it hard to believe.
No the test it is not done a specific distance. The test is done on setting a specific focal length and moving to fill specifically the frame. So the reproduction is not affected by focus breathing. It is true that sharpness can differ based on the distance as there is a moving element for focusing. But it would be unrealistic to do thorought test on all distances. cameralabs.com usually a similar test at close focus and some on infinity.
That does not make any sense. Lets say they fill the target at 70mm and 200mm so they have to move the camera to a different distance in order to do it. Right? So in case of 70-200mm they have to move camera 3 times if they test at 70mm, 100mm, 135mm, 200mm.
Yes that is what they are doing. Observe on one zoom lens the different focal lengths. The image remains almost the same.
That's why I run initial tests on walls. So much easier when you can stay in one place. And I have more faith in performance at a consistent 3m say, rather than start off from the minimum focus distance which is often around 1.3m on a 70-200. I've had older lenses from before the explosion of internet testing that just didn't do well at mfd. Now, a manufacturer would have to be daring to risk bad scores on all the paper chart tests.
 
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But on the same chart if you compare at 200mm both lenses produce same size images.

So unless this test was done at infinity which I hardly doubt there is something wrong.

Another thing is that Tamron focus breathing is at every focal length but look at 100mm on this site. It looks like Tamron magnifies even more than Sigma. I find it hard to believe.
No the test it is not done a specific distance. The test is done on setting a specific focal length and moving to fill specifically the frame. So the reproduction is not affected by focus breathing. It is true that sharpness can differ based on the distance as there is a moving element for focusing. But it would be unrealistic to do thorought test on all distances. cameralabs.com usually a similar test at close focus and some on infinity.
That does not make any sense. Lets say they fill the target at 70mm and 200mm so they have to move the camera to a different distance in order to do it. Right? So in case of 70-200mm they have to move camera 3 times if they test at 70mm, 100mm, 135mm, 200mm.
Yes that is what they are doing. Observe on one zoom lens the different focal lengths. The image remains almost the same.
Focus breathing will be visible if the distance was stict. That would produce different observations on lenses with different focal lenghts so it would not be possible to compare them if they had even slightly difference at focal lenghts.

Focus breathing is more affecting videographers and photographers who need more compression at close distances. Personally it is not an issue to care about, for others it is. But it is an issue that appears under specific circumstances and usage.
I shoot from the fixed distance and sometimes I want to get closer but I can't because my Tamron has focus breathing. So I have to crop, sometimes heavily. And that is on D500 which already crops.
It depends on what you shoot and how you shoot. I understand that you try to shoot near MFD. There indeed it is possible to have issues, due to focus breathing.
No, focus breathing is not only at MFD. It is just more pronounced at MFD. But it is still there up to infinity.
I am waiting for the end of this month and hoping Sigma brings Nikon mount to the WPPI. But my biggest thing is actually focus speed. I am very happy with optics of Tamron. I can live with focus breathing. What I hate is the paint finish and the switches. I actually managed to move AF switch to off with the gaffer tape on top of the switch bank.
Yes the switches is an issue I have also encountered. Basically by moving out the camera from my bag there are some cases that the switch for AF has been set to manual. The paint finish hasn't been an issue for me. It is as new.
How long ago did you buy the lens?
Exactly one year before.
Hmmm, I thought they fixed it the finish if you just bought it. You must be babying your lens.
 
Where did you actually get the numbers to start with? All I have seen is the actual MTF chart which does not list the numbers you mention. Since both lenses are above "excellent" which is number over 3000 usually and above .9 on the MTF chart it is hard to tell. EPhotozine on the other hand measures the same way as long as it has the equipment so even if their numbers are wrong they are still good for comparison purpose. ePhotozine unfortunately does not have the lens anymore to test on D850.
As mentioned, I used the Lensrentals test of the 70-200 fl. It can be found here to save a Google trip: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/11/nikon-70-200mm-f2-8e-fl-ed-af-s-vr-mtf-tests/

Scroll to the last chart and it's a comparison of the Nikon to the Canon II at 200mm f2.8.

I think one would be hard pressed to argue that Lensrentals is less consistent in their measurements than any other reviewer. They're constantly testing lenses in order to ensure that their fleet is well calibrated, and they test many copies for these reviews (usually at least 10).
 
Dustin Abbot just started his first look review of this beast. You guys should check it out. He shows a nice sample difference of a subject shot at 4 ft from sigma and tamron and you can clearly see a huge difference the sigma makes:

https://youtu.be/SKIxJrfQ6lI?t=740

I can't wait to see his image quality section next. Pretty impressive so far. B&H says the lens will be available for Nikon F mount in beginning of March so still quiet a while before I can buy it. Darn it :-D
Yes, this first look is good tease for his image quality review. Nice that he owns the Tamron G2 and will be comparing the two lenses head to head throughout his reviews. Right off the bat, it looks to me that he will not be replacing his Tamron with the Sigma. The fact that the tripod collar is not removable sounds like a deal killer for him.

He says the weight is a decided negative, but it may be a lesser issue for some. If the Sport has significantly better iq. Sigma must have added a larger front element for a reason. This should be clarified in his next review. At this time, we can pretty much assume that a new Sigma lens will be hefty. I like the fact that the mount can be exchanged on their newer lenses. He did not mention that the zoom ring is considerably wider on the Sport.
 
Where did you actually get the numbers to start with? All I have seen is the actual MTF chart which does not list the numbers you mention. Since both lenses are above "excellent" which is number over 3000 usually and above .9 on the MTF chart it is hard to tell. EPhotozine on the other hand measures the same way as long as it has the equipment so even if their numbers are wrong they are still good for comparison purpose. ePhotozine unfortunately does not have the lens anymore to test on D850.
As mentioned, I used the Lensrentals test of the 70-200 fl. It can be found here to save a Google trip: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/11/nikon-70-200mm-f2-8e-fl-ed-af-s-vr-mtf-tests/

Scroll to the last chart and it's a comparison of the Nikon to the Canon II at 200mm f2.8.

I think one would be hard pressed to argue that Lensrentals is less consistent in their measurements than any other reviewer. They're constantly testing lenses in order to ensure that their fleet is well calibrated, and they test many copies for these reviews (usually at least 10).
Yes, this is the article I am talking about but there are no numbers like from ePhotozine.
 
If you look at the MTF graphs you can see that they are labelled - the x axis is the distance from the center of the frame, and the y axis is the MTF value. So I just take the value for the center and the edge for the comparisons.
 
If you look at the MTF graphs you can see that they are labelled - the x axis is the distance from the center of the frame, and the y axis is the MTF value. So I just take the value for the center and the edge for the comparisons.
Are these the same values as in ePhotozine review?

--
If I don't respond to your post after you responded to my with NEGATIVE remarks that means you are on my Ignore list.
Photography Director for Whedonopolis.com
 
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If the numbers are not the same how can you compare? Not only that but these are totally two different tests.
Ultimately, we want to compare the Nikon fl to the Sigma Sport. Ephotozine has tested the Canon III and the Sigma Sport on the 5DSR, and the Nikon fl on the D810. We want to figure out what the Nikon numbers would be if tested on the 5DSR, so that we can compare it to the Sigma Sport.

Lensrentals has tested the Canon II and Nikon fl on their optical bench, thus their values are comparable. Assuming the Canon II is as sharp as the III (as most seem to find), we can thus get an objective comparison of how the two compare. If we can determine the difference between them, we can multiply the Ephotozine Canon results by that difference to get an idea of how the Nikon would perform.

I choose to look at the 30 lp/mm results, as this is common in MTF tests. However, it may not be the best choice. Regardless, it gives us an idea that if we use this approach that it would show the Nikon as having sharper edges than the center, which doesn't seem right.

Of course, this is obvious when you look at Ephotozine's coverage of the Canon vs Lenrentals. Clearly something's wrong - Ephotozine shows the Canon as having edges almost as good as the center, while Lensrentals shows a more significant dropoff at the edges.

Either Ephotozine has a very unique lens, one of the two sites is testing things wrong, or Canon does something special with their sensors that makes edges sharper (or the center less sharp).

So ultimately, the exercise failed and I couldn't find a good way to compare the Nikon to the Sigma.
 
If the numbers are not the same how can you compare? Not only that but these are totally two different tests.
Ultimately, we want to compare the Nikon fl to the Sigma Sport. Ephotozine has tested the Canon III and the Sigma Sport on the 5DSR, and the Nikon fl on the D810. We want to figure out what the Nikon numbers would be if tested on the 5DSR, so that we can compare it to the Sigma Sport.

Lensrentals has tested the Canon II and Nikon fl on their optical bench, thus their values are comparable. Assuming the Canon II is as sharp as the III (as most seem to find), we can thus get an objective comparison of how the two compare. If we can determine the difference between them, we can multiply the Ephotozine Canon results by that difference to get an idea of how the Nikon would perform.

I choose to look at the 30 lp/mm results, as this is common in MTF tests. However, it may not be the best choice. Regardless, it gives us an idea that if we use this approach that it would show the Nikon as having sharper edges than the center, which doesn't seem right.

Of course, this is obvious when you look at Ephotozine's coverage of the Canon vs Lenrentals. Clearly something's wrong - Ephotozine shows the Canon as having edges almost as good as the center, while Lensrentals shows a more significant dropoff at the edges.

Either Ephotozine has a very unique lens, one of the two sites is testing things wrong, or Canon does something special with their sensors that makes edges sharper (or the center less sharp).

So ultimately, the exercise failed and I couldn't find a good way to compare the Nikon to the Sigma.
I asked ePhotozine if they could retest the lens on the D850. They said they don't have the lens. But I got another response from them later:

"Using the mathematical formulae in isolation an increase of around 6% would be a reasonable assumption.

The 25% more D850 MP (as distinct from linear pixels) is equivalent to around 12% more sensor resolution. If the sensor tested in isolation has similar resolution to the lens tested in isolation a reasonable expectation for the increase in image resolution is around 6%."

6%???????

That makes maximum number for Nikon 3800 + 6%= 4028

I don't know what to think of that. I only go by the center or close to center because I am going to use this lens just like Tamron for portraits only and corners don't bother me at all. In fact if corners are blurry it is even better for me.

--
If I don't respond to your post after you responded to my with NEGATIVE remarks that means you are on my Ignore list.
Photography Director for Whedonopolis.com
 
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Dustin Abbot just started his first look review of this beast. You guys should check it out. He shows a nice sample difference of a subject shot at 4 ft from sigma and tamron and you can clearly see a huge difference the sigma makes:

https://youtu.be/SKIxJrfQ6lI?t=740

I can't wait to see his image quality section next. Pretty impressive so far. B&H says the lens will be available for Nikon F mount in beginning of March so still quiet a while before I can buy it. Darn it :-D
Yes, this first look is good tease for his image quality review. Nice that he owns the Tamron G2 and will be comparing the two lenses head to head throughout his reviews. Right off the bat, it looks to me that he will not be replacing his Tamron with the Sigma. The fact that the tripod collar is not removable sounds like a deal killer for him.

He says the weight is a decided negative, but it may be a lesser issue for some. If the Sport has significantly better iq. Sigma must have added a larger front element for a reason. This should be clarified in his next review. At this time, we can pretty much assume that a new Sigma lens will be hefty. I like the fact that the mount can be exchanged on their newer lenses. He did not mention that the zoom ring is considerably wider on the Sport.
Yup I pretty much had same observations. I too doubt that he will be replacing his tamron G2. I guess it's just going to depend on the person. I know for me I like the fact that you can remove the tripod collar on the Sigma 105mm 1.4 art for example but it's just strange that they chose to not go that same route on the sports.

I didn't think about it much at first until I started noticing how the tripod collar can be annoying when you've been shooting a while with a heavy glass that you hand hold pretty much always. Let's see how the next part goes :-D
 
Dustin Abbot just started his first look review of this beast. You guys should check it out. He shows a nice sample difference of a subject shot at 4 ft from sigma and tamron and you can clearly see a huge difference the sigma makes:

https://youtu.be/SKIxJrfQ6lI?t=740

I can't wait to see his image quality section next. Pretty impressive so far. B&H says the lens will be available for Nikon F mount in beginning of March so still quiet a while before I can buy it. Darn it :-D
Yes, this first look is good tease for his image quality review. Nice that he owns the Tamron G2 and will be comparing the two lenses head to head throughout his reviews. Right off the bat, it looks to me that he will not be replacing his Tamron with the Sigma. The fact that the tripod collar is not removable sounds like a deal killer for him.

He says the weight is a decided negative, but it may be a lesser issue for some. If the Sport has significantly better iq. Sigma must have added a larger front element for a reason. This should be clarified in his next review. At this time, we can pretty much assume that a new Sigma lens will be hefty. I like the fact that the mount can be exchanged on their newer lenses. He did not mention that the zoom ring is considerably wider on the Sport.
Yup I pretty much had same observations. I too doubt that he will be replacing his tamron G2. I guess it's just going to depend on the person. I know for me I like the fact that you can remove the tripod collar on the Sigma 105mm 1.4 art for example but it's just strange that they chose to not go that same route on the sports.

I didn't think about it much at first until I started noticing how the tripod collar can be annoying when you've been shooting a while with a heavy glass that you hand hold pretty much always. Let's see how the next part goes :-D
I don't understand why it bothers everyone so much. Just rotate it to the top and it is out of the way. Simple.
 
I don't understand why it bothers everyone so much. Just rotate it to the top and it is out of the way. Simple.
It's just that it would have been so easy for them to implement removability, which I suggest the vast majority of people would want - especially with such a heavy lens.
 

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