Secondary travel body used by Panasonic G9/GH5 users?

tiksom said:

Thank you for all the insight, it helps!
I should probably mortgage to buy all these camera models and write an article on that ;-)

Single post to gather all my replies:

GM5 (GM1?)
I originally dismissed it due to severe lack of availability (locally I've only seen one at 400$ w/o flash or battery) and tiny size (my fingers are too large to use it as main camera). I can now see Tom's point in using multiple preconfigured GM5s/lens combos instead of swapping the lens. Lack of IS is not a major issue for my intended application. Fixed screen is an issue for overhead shots and selfies (for social usage), nevertheless I will rethink this model.
GM1 seems to be much more available, I will need to make comparison to see which features I would miss (beyond the viewfinder).

Sony RX100
Agreed that startup time makes it miss quite a few occasions, plus lens/sensor combination while best in class is below what u43 delivers. The latest revision seems to be quite improved, but it's very unlikely I will take the upgrade path.

Fuji X100F/X70
I considered Fuji as the main camera before deciding on G9. While X70/X100 are limited to fixed lens, they are still very attractive for me as a secondary camera - except the price Fuji is not so popular here, so it's difficult to get a reasonably priced used one (and import from outside EU adds 25% in taxes). I will keep looking though because these Fuji models just look like "proper cameras" I agree that it could be an interesting "something different" to force new perspective on me. Thanks also for pointing out X70 as an alternative, I wouldn't find it by myself!

Sony A7
SergeyFromMoscow - which compact lens you chose? For the body I did not consider the earliest A7 variant, but much lower price makes it more attractive to foray into FF (tradeoffs are ok for "secondary" camera).

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samyang/rokinon 35mm f2.8

tiksom said:

GX80
For some reason I got stuck with idea that screen is fixed - thanks for pointing out it's not!

G9
I do regret when I don't take that camera with me but larger cameras are just not always appropriate, I find they tend to disrupt (hey everyone, photo time!) rather than blend in (like mobile phones or small cameras that do not get noticed). There are also occasions where I can't take a bag or carry a larger camera on a sling.

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Multiple GM5 bodies are hard to achieve any more and with the few GM5 cameras on the market (we just love our GM5’s) they seem to be still priced at the later street price of new cameras when I was buying mine. Maybe even more.

Buying GM5 bodies at the original RRP was price prohibitive for multiple bodies bought by other than masochists with large quantities of money to burn.

But I did coin a phrase when I suggested elsewhere that the later exchange rate once was 6 x new GM5 cameras = 1 x new Sony A7RIII. So three GM5 bodies left money over for some good quality lenses

The GM1 is more limited by the lack of an evf. When I was buying mine I made myself a “VEfinder” device after the style of the commecial “Clearviewer”. I took my first GM1 wih an early prototype VEfinder to NZ now nearly five years ago in a small shoulder bag with six lenses (used three of them ) The VEfinder worked well. One of the lenses was my recently acquired Ncticron 42.5/1.2 which was and remains an amazingly good lens.

I was hooked on this tiny little powerhouse type and remain so today. No rush for upgrade models.

The GM1 is also handicapped by a “fiddly” rear wheel which some cannot abide. It did cause me some silent curses until I figured out my “lover’s gentle touch” with it (its action is actally quite sensitive and it doesn’t respect poking and prodding) - now I prefer it - the wheel, once mastered, provides quick, reliable, and accurate control.

So if you can't find a GM5, how does the GF7 match up? There seems to be little difference in the specs to me, but I've never held either of them.

Maggie

pattymeboy said:

if a fixed lens is part of the mix, My vote would go to the Ricoh"s GR or GRII

I have had the GR for 4 years, quite a small, light, compact performer.

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I can relate to that - I am Ricoh fan who came to Panasonic GM simply because Ricoh only sells their high performance camera in fixed 28mm (FF FOV Eq) collapsing prime lens guise.

The GM series are actually smaller bodies but larger as soon as you fix any lens as the GR lens collapses into the body.

M4/3 lens variety (all of it) is the spice of life for the GeMs.

GX8

LX100 II

Tom

maggiemole said:

So if you can't find a GM5, how does the GF7 match up? There seems to be little difference in the specs to me, but I've never held either of them.

Maggie

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Good point Maggie. I am all fixed up with the GeM bodies so I “don’t need” the GF7, etc.

The GF7, etc are noticeably larger than the GeM bodies and “only” use a tilt lcd for framing. They are also pitched at the entry level user with less control and more preset modes such as “jump shot” which I find downgrades the serious intent that is the GeM.

But I imagine the images are just as good (if not better) and they are also “systems cameras” just like the GeM and can access the full range of M4/3 mount lenses.

There is a distinct attitude of self-regulation by only using a select sub-set of smaller lenses on GeM bodies which are indeed quite capable of being used by all M4/3 mount lenses - and I say that very carefully from my own experience.

I used to have two m43 bodies (GH5 and G80) when travelling but I was not happy with low light so I got A7iii to complement GH5. It is a bit heavy combination. I use GH5 mainly with P50-200mm, and Tamron 28-75mm with A7iii.

Amen

Except GX8 is on the largesse, others are in reasonable sizes confine to the general ideal of small and size advantage on using M43 IMHO.

On a cost consideration GX85 wins, for 20MP sensor GX9 wins (basically a Pen-F class but more cost friendly).

Not sure your comment on no extra dial on GX85. In fact GX85 uses 2 dials control and plus the pushable back dial and Dial Operation Switch these dual dials control total 7 features... (the dedicated EC dial of GX9 has cancelled the pushable back dial behavior so 3 less controls), 4 hard fn keys, 5 soft fn keys, 15 items Q.Menu and these 24 configurable keys can have 4 independent sets for each of the 3 C modes and normal PSAM mode... It is not as customizable as G9, but do we really need all of these numbers of keys for shooting? Especially consider a backup model...

Tom Caldwell said:

The GF7, etc are noticeably larger than the GeM bodies and “only” use a tilt lcd for framing. They are also pitched at the entry level user with less control and more preset modes such as “jump shot” which I find downgrades the serious intent that is the GeM.

But I imagine the images are just as good (if not better) and they are also “systems cameras” just like the GeM and can access the full range of M4/3 mount lenses.

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The build quality of the GMs is also simply better. I find that contributes to my enjoyment of this hobby. When some say, "A camera is just a tool," that suggests that only the resulting image matters. But for those who use hand tools (screwdrivers, etc.) and have used both high quality tools and crap tools, there's a substantial difference in the user experience, even if both are capable of driving a screw.

apekkpul said:

I used to have two m43 bodies (GH5 and G80) when travelling but I was not happy with low light so I got A7iii to complement GH5. It is a bit heavy combination. I use GH5 mainly with P50-200mm, and Tamron 28-75mm with A7iii.

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Best of both systems

GX9 is about 50% more expensive (~800$) than other Panasonic options. My plan was to have a significantly cheaper 2nd hand u43 body (<500$) as this "secondary".

LX100II is a very nice camera (I had chance to use the first one) but as expensive as Fuji (prices include fixed lens). It's a recent model - no lower-priced 2nd hand ones.

More expensive options such as Fuji (1050$) or larger like Sony A7 (650$ body) bring something different enough (sensor technology and size) that I consider saving for them.

Ricoh - it has a very low 2nd hand availability (not that popular). I used Fuji film and liked the colours, so I might be biased towards Fuji there, though Ricoh (new GRII) is much cheaper (700$).

Sony A7 - thanks you for lens propositions, they will help me as starting points (and for pricing).

GM5 - now I know if I find one and decide not to keep - it was an investment ;-)

GF7 - what Tom already wrote

GX80 - baseline is a mode dial and one dial used for controlling some aspect (program shift, ISO etc). By additional dials I meant that there is more dedicated dials for controlling multiple aspects at the same time, such as dedicated exp.compensation on GX8, or ISO/Shutter speed dials on Fuji. Reason to consider this is that I find myself fumbling a bit with Sony RX100 if I need to change something quickly.

Other Panasonic bodies are still under consideration, I need to handle them to narrow down the choice based on that.

tiksom said:

GX9 is about 50% more expensive (~800$) than other Panasonic options. My plan was to have a significantly cheaper 2nd hand u43 body (<500$) as this "secondary".

LX100II is a very nice camera (I had chance to use the first one) but as expensive as Fuji (prices include fixed lens). It's a recent model - no lower-priced 2nd hand ones.

More expensive options such as Fuji (1050$) or larger like Sony A7 (650$ body) bring something different enough (sensor technology and size) that I consider saving for them.

Ricoh - it has a very low 2nd hand availability (not that popular). I used Fuji film and liked the colours, so I might be biased towards Fuji there, though Ricoh (new GRII) is much cheaper (700$).

Sony A7 - thanks you for lens propositions, they will help me as starting points (and for pricing).

GM5 - now I know if I find one and decide not to keep - it was an investment ;-)

GF7 - what Tom already wrote

GX80 - baseline is a mode dial and one dial used for controlling some aspect (program shift, ISO etc). By additional dials I meant that there is more dedicated dials for controlling multiple aspects at the same time, such as dedicated exp.compensation on GX8, or ISO/Shutter speed dials on Fuji. Reason to consider this is that I find myself fumbling a bit with Sony RX100 if I need to change something quickly.

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GX85 has front and back dial. The Back dial is pushable to make it a 3rd dial operation.







In P: one dial to do program shift and the other to do Exposure Compensation. Push back dial: L or R key for EC (duplicate), Up or down key for Bracketing (AEB), back dial for Flash Adjust.

In A/S: one dial to do f/stop or Shutter Speed, the other for EC. Push back dail for EC will perform the same as in P (duplicated EC, AEB and Flash Adjust).

In M: one dial for f/stop and one for Shutter Speed. (No pushable back dial because GX85 does not allow EC in M & Auto ISO).

If "Dial Operation Switch" = on, a control can be assigned to each of the front and back dial. Currently I have ISO on the front dial, and 4K Photo to back dial.

GX8 & GX9 has a dedicated EC dial. But they are limit to +/-3ev only whereas all Panny models supports upto +/-5ev. When the setting on dedicated EC dial be used, the extra 2 +/-ev has to use the tradition operation (back to front or back wheel). IMHO the dedicated EC dial indeed less convenience for my usual operation.

Furthermore, tried GX9, found its dedicated EC dial not as smooth as other dials. Similar happened to GX85 but I have the option to assign the more smooth front dial to operate EC and leave the less changed f/stop or Shutter Speed to the less smooth back dial. I read some users recommended to disable the EC dial and assign the task to the front/back dial. GX9 has also cancelled the pushable back dial losing control on AEB and Flash Adj.

Finally lesser nos. of dial to deal with, means that I can concentrate more on evf and control the settings by the right thumb and index finger without the need to put evf away and look for a dial to operate. To allow my thumb to find fn3 by feeling (it controls Dial Operation Switch) I sticked a rhinestone there. So I can handle all 7 features without looking to find them. It helps my fast speed shooting.

YMMV.

tiksom said:

Other Panasonic bodies are still under consideration, I need to handle them to narrow down the choice based on that.

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--
Albert

alcelc said:

GX85 has front and back dial.

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Duh... how could I miss it?? Thank you!

Off on a trip to India in a few weeks. Mostly wildlife, but I expect there will be other opportunities, too.

My standard wildlife setup is G80 + 100-300, and G7 + 14-140. Works well, but not exactly pocketable.

So I've been wondering whether to add a take anywhere camera, and maybe leave the G7 at home (or maybe not!).

There doesn't seem much point in adding a smaller mft body - once you add a lens the weight and size saving isn't sisignificant.

For my purposes a zoom is essential, so that excludes the Fuji fixed lens.

I'm seriously considering the Sony RX 100 vi

Pros. Genuinely pocketable, if it goes well would become my regular take anywhere camera. Nicely fills the gap from wide angle to the 100-300. Discrete for street shots.

Cons: Expensive! Compact does compromise ergonomics (obviously need to handle it). Slow zoom and start up. Whole new setup to learn. Extra batteries and charger.

Obviously, no-one can decide for me - just wanted to get my thoughts down.

Dave

After long considerations I decided on the following:

• get Sony A7 + lowlight lens (native 28/2.0, 35/2.8 or maybe adapted manual ones) to learn whether FF helps in low-light situations in a satisfactory way. It is not exactly "small" solution (FF lens are at best "american-size" pancakes) but if handling/quality is satisfactory it can be ok.
• look out for Panasonic GM5 as the secondary body. This choice is due to body size alone - it doesn't impact much the camera bag (lens would be already there) even if it becomes larger with lens mounted.
• If A7 doesn't work out, consider fixed-lens Fuji X100F or Ricoh. Disadvantage: very high price.

My exotic List i own

A7R3 Main Unit

D500 For Sports

G9 cos i needed to have 1

My Travel setup

RX100V

OM10 MK3 Pancake lens

The Sony is great for low light and something to stuff in your pocket

The Olympus excels if i want to shoot night time tripod stuff, as its even got the Live composite stuff and utilises my G9s lens if needed. Great for city scenes and startrails etc, i pair it with a Joby Handypod

I did try and buy a G85 but sold it as i found the Night time stuff a bit cumbersome over and above Olympus Live Time etc. But still a good unit...al be it not as small

I realise a lot of people are going to laugh or turn their nose up at this but a good second body is having a high quality phone camera and knowing how to make the most of it...

Mobile phone is not useful for reasons explained in 1st post.

davidedric said:

Off on a trip to India in a few weeks. Mostly wildlife, but I expect there will be other opportunities, too.

My standard wildlife setup is G80 + 100-300, and G7 + 14-140. Works well, but not exactly pocketable.

So I've been wondering whether to add a take anywhere camera, and maybe leave the G7 at home (or maybe not!).

There doesn't seem much point in adding a smaller mft body - once you add a lens the weight and size saving isn't sisignificant.

For my purposes a zoom is essential, so that excludes the Fuji fixed lens.

I'm seriously considering the Sony RX 100 vi

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A great camera, but not a fun camera to use at least for me. It never grew on me, despite not having a serious disadvantage and having many benefits (sharp lens, EVF).

davidedric said:

Pros. Genuinely pocketable, if it goes well would become my regular take anywhere camera. Nicely fills the gap from wide angle to the 100-300. Discrete for street shots.

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If you don't care about low light shooting, get the G80 with the tele lenses and the RX100 or Panasonic LX15.

davidedric said:

Cons: Expensive! Compact does compromise ergonomics (obviously need to handle it). Slow zoom and start up. Whole new setup to learn. Extra batteries and charger.

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A used RX100 III is not that expensive. I am actually selling mine in ebay if you are interested. I would also take a look at the LX15.

davidedric said:

Obviously, no-one can decide for me - just wanted to get my thoughts down.

Dave

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