onlyfreeman
Senior Member
Cats and sunsets, I like the sound of this business! 
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Donald B
Guest
Has nothing to do with just photographers, but photography just seems to attract a large number of shoot for 1 week professional the next.Do all photographers make fun of new photographers or is it just DPR posters?
Don
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Donald B
Guest
LOL.Cats and sunsets, I like the sound of this business!
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Donald B
Guest
because i have seen their happy snaps
and NO accompanying images for the request, dont have to be a brain surgeon.Don
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Donald B
Guest
Not how i have raised my 16 yo daughter. "no pain no gain"I see no problem. It's the way things are done these days. What I learned from doing sales is you have to give people a chance to say yes so you ask the question. And you ask it again with the next person, and so on, and so on until someone says yes.
Not everyone is shy IMO.
And it's hard to get the full context from two sentences. The standard I set for myself is always assume positive intent but who knows!
Don
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Donald B
Guest
Far from it, the cheapest price the best product wins Period. Its up to you how to turn it into profit. turnover and the best productive practices wins. when you have established yourself then you can up the price and sit back.
Don
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Olympus EM5mk2 ,EM1mk2
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/9412035244
past toys. k100d, k10d,k7,fz5,fz150,500uz,canon G9, Olympus xz1 em5mk1
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DiffractionLtd
Senior Member
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Not that you'd know it. Screeching millenials are now demanding to be paid for internships, even though it's technically just an extension of school. Entitled little brats.
confused circle
Senior Member
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They don't know how to shoot a wedding and want to be a second shooter. Not an assistant. A shooter. And they just decided to start a photography business. So I suppose they might expect to get paid. I think most second shooters do, even if minimally. But based on what body of work, particularly dealing with photographing people in a unique event and under a significant time constraint. And being a brand new business owner (maybe) are they going to be able to stick to the schedule the primary has to follow, or will they be faffing off to shoot their own gigs, or work whatever other job they may still hold. And of course, they apparently don't already know any wedding photographers that would work with them. And they don't know what info to offer up in such a request to make it seem feasible. Plus, what happens when it comes to owning, editing, and sharing the photos, do they know yet how to navigate that, since it directly impacts the other photographer.
The issue is the powerful indication that this person is asking to bite off too much, and at the potential detriment of the photographer who allows them to do it at one of their booked weddings. With everything else involved in shooting a wedding and delivering final images, will a photographer entertain a request presented in such a way.
I live in a dirt poor section of the USA, where lots of people start a wedding photography business with a few hundred dollars invested or someone gave them a used camera. If they have the social skills it takes to do weddings they can learn the photography skills as they go along.
I don't really see a problem with that. At least this person doesn't have a shingle out offering wedding photography not ever having been a second shooter first. Generally to do anything really well takes some amount of experience, but how do you get that experience? Seems like being a second shooter would be the obvious way for wedding photography. If the thing is structured so that the 2nd shooter is doing the less challenging shots, if that person is a pretty good photographer already and if they're a pretty quick learner, it could work out very well, right?
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Donald B
Guest
sorry dont agree, when i started out in the yachting world then to become a ships captain. i studied at nautical/aviation school for 6 years, at the same time i built a 35 foot yacht to commercial survey. then i approached a well known yacht to joining as crew as completed theory ocean masters course. so they excepted me as navigator. then when't on to solo sailing my first 10,000 miles on my own yacht (practical experience) to then holding a full qualification. then sat a few more courses and worked as a paid skipper of yachts up to 90 ft then applying for my commercial license . then i built a 47 foot ocean survey yacht and started my "own" business. as i said no pain no gain. just get off your behind is how you make it, not sucking up to someone else.
Don
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Olympus EM5mk2 ,EM1mk2
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/9412035244
past toys. k100d, k10d,k7,fz5,fz150,500uz,canon G9, Olympus xz1 em5mk1
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ToxicTabasco
Senior Member
Photo and video is essential. Having 2 or more people to cover the event will speed up editing, capture more content for the best shots, and cost more. You can stake your professional reputation on the outcome.
Moti
Veteran Member
Oh dear, of course Don, but let's not forget that compared to to the average person waking on the streets, you are the exceptional genius and no one can simply come close to your level. Of course you are also very modest.
But all your blah blah is completely irrelevant to the subject because if you haven't understood yet, a yacht is not a camera and wedding photography is different from sailing and requires different skills, different approach and diffetent training.
Working as a second shooter for weddings is a very important part of this training and practicing and there are no shortcuts. only stupid photographers would skip that part. So actually, there was a very good treason or the photographer bin your OP to enquirer about that.
Moti
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http://www.musicalpix.com
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MicahDickinson
Well-known member
Bobthearch
Forum Pro
Notice above where it says "American economy."
I'm not afraid to use the letter "Z" either.
Makes me wonder about the British workforce and how mobile they need to be. Where could they possibly go, across the island?
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Donald B
Guest
Any person with a passion will become anything they wont, my 16 yo daughter still has 2 years left at high school and is planning a double degree in Medicine and teaching and as i have told her if she want's to succeed in medicine she must have a passion for it not just study it. she did top biology last year and enjoys it so only time will tell. second shooter LOL learn by your self ,if your going to be good at photography go take photos and study the art. theirs no short cuts , build a portfolio of your own and make your own mistakes and be responsible for them. no ones life is at risk, mind you some photographers have a different opinion
Don
DiffractionLtd
Senior Member
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Your employment record sounds infinitely more interesting than some guy who spends his life in a cubicle.
p0ppyman
Leading Member
I really don't know what world some who post on this forum live in. The reality is there are some truly exceptional people in this world, many more than most might think. And I take Don at his word until I find out otherwise.
The worlds information is at a person's fingertips these days thanks to Google, its property YouTube, and the Internet.
People don't bow to some old world order anymore. If you want it, get off your ass, and go for it.
If you want to be a wedding photographer, or many other things for that matter, commit yourself to watch a month's worth of YouTube, 40 hours a week, and in a month your ready.
Chances are you'll do OK if you are conservative on what you accept for your first gig.
And if you fail, learn from it and do better the next time. The world will not end and the sun will come up again tomorrow.
If you have the courage to reach for the brass ring chances are you'll be successful. I've lived my life this way and I'm a long way from exceptional. But I believe in myself and I keep a positive frame of mind at all times. I shut the door on naysayers whenever they pop up but YMMV.
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Bill Poplawski (Photographer)
San Mateo, CA 94402
~ there is beauty in every face ~
https://www.billpoplawskiphotography.com
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What is wrong with paying for internships ? I work for a large IT company and we pay them about double of minimum wage. They do usefull work and often we charge clients for that.
Ian Stuart Forsyth
Senior Member
You have no clue my friend, I am sure she will understand as it its in medicine that she would have to do some sort of residency, depending on the local laws she may need 2-5 years before she can practice. So everything that you have written is garbage.
No but there can be substantial damages to your clients, But then I would expect this from someone who thinks the venue you are shooting at will cover you from any of those damages
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54561631
--mind you some photographers have a different opinion
Don
The Camera is only a tool, photography is deciding how to use it.
The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release
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