Don't they like the USA anymore?

Clayphish · Sep 27, 2003

While breaking the geneva accord by stepping foot in Iraq unilaterally?

If Bush and his administration were good at leading the United States then they would take into account all the countries they do deals with, when they deal with them. If they shun these countries, like they and other administrations have done before, then they'll be shooting themselves in the foot for the future. Because, United States cannot function on it's own; it needs to co-exist with every country that keeps it's economy going.

At this point with the American economy looking as bleak as it is, when there is a growing China jumping at the bit and growing extremely fast economically. Taking this into account, you can see that United States will have to play it smart because if they continue throwing around their weight, it will have major repercussions for their future as a trading country.

Tom@JHU said:
MrPunkasS said:

First President in a long long long time to loose so many jobs so
quickly. If your unemployed you wont want a new digital.
Canadian Adsl selling for $16 canadian a month (about $10 US) The
US must catch up in pricing

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Clayphish · Sep 27, 2003

I totally agree. I suggest some of you people should read the economist or goto http://www.reuters.com to get a larger view of things, stop watching CNN for a while.

Chris A said:
Tom@JHU said:

Sam Curcio said:

After reading about the lack of interest in the US market, I don't
get it with these camera and electronics manufacturers. The largest
consumer market in the world, and they won't release new products
in the USA. Don't they like us anymore? Maybe the European
Community is the new consumer hotbed. That Euro sure looks inviting.

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Click to expand...

--
CLICKADDICT!

Tom@JHU · Sep 28, 2003

Clayphish said:
While breaking the geneva accord by stepping foot in Iraq
unilaterally?

What part of the geneva accord was broken? So what about Kosovo? Do you think Clinton as well as those other NATO leaders broken whatever part of the geneva accord that Bush supposedly broke in Iraq?

Clayphish said:
If Bush and his administration were good at leading the United
States then they would take into account all the countries they do
deals with, when they deal with them. If they shun these countries,
like they and other administrations have done before, then they'll
be shooting themselves in the foot for the future. Because, United
States cannot function on it's own; it needs to co-exist with every
country that keeps it's economy going.

You've never heard of the phrase "there are no friends in international relations, only interests." This has always been true and is especially evident today. I don't deny that the world is changing and becoming increasingly interdependent, it is precisely during this transitional period that countries try to shape the world to their advantage. Bush correctly uses the leverage of American power to further our interests and our goals. That is what he's supposed to do because he is the president of this country and his duties is to serve Americans and Americans only. Yes, we do take into account all the countries we deal with. If it is in our interest to be friends with certain countries, then we will be friendly with them, and if it is neccessary to be hostile, then we will do that too.

Tom@JHU · Sep 28, 2003

Hey, you are a canadian, we don't tell you how to vote for your prime minister, so don't tell us how to vote for our president. We will vote based on what we think will be best for this country.

Clayphish said:
Chris A said:

Tom@JHU said:

Sam Curcio said:

After reading about the lack of interest in the US market, I don't
get it with these camera and electronics manufacturers. The largest
consumer market in the world, and they won't release new products
in the USA. Don't they like us anymore? Maybe the European
Community is the new consumer hotbed. That Euro sure looks inviting.

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Click to expand...

--
CLICKADDICT!

Click to expand...

--

I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Tom@JHU · Sep 28, 2003

Chris A said:
You people are suicidal to be thinking Bush for another term. What
is up with the American people lately? OK, 9-11 happened and since
Bush was in charge we should all follow is lead like Lambs waiting
to be slaughtered. Then five years from now when 500K more people
are out work and gas cost $4 per gallon we could at lease say that
we did the American think and stuck by our Pres.
......flame away...................

Suicidal? Hmmm, so we should vote for another Clinton wannabe? And wait for Arab terrorists to kill another 3000 of us, or maybe next time it'll be 3 million? No I'm not suicidal, I don't want another weak playboy president like Clinton who was too worried about his image with the world than defending the interests of his country. He knew who our enemies were and what their goal was, yet he did little to go after them during his reign? No, unlike Clinton and most other Democratic candidates, Bush is strong and he is not afraid to do whatever is neccessary to defend this country and her interests.

Jan Willem Mars · Sep 28, 2003

the interests of the US are manyfold and pretty complex... one liners and pre-emptive strikes are part of contemporary US way of governance but as Irak is showing (again) the world is pretty much more complex, defiant, and less makeble, then your policy makers seem to think... the us has been an inteligent player that was balancing powers in the world, this was in the worlds intrest as much as in the US. The unilateral appraoch of recent years will proove to be desasterous for the US and without a proper new balance of (emerging) powers at hand very dangerous indeed... for amaricans and non-americans alike...

And please do not forget that although the US economy is the most vibrant one on earth it still is triving on borrowed money... one day this paycheck has to be paid with all consequences for the possibility of the us to play the balancing role it could ans should, and if the us does not pay back it will drag the rest of the worlds economy with it...

tom; the us has lost a tremendous amount of credit the last couple of years, the question is wether the us is solving or creating problems rigth now... and not only for the us itself...

every body is entiteled to have his/her own opnion and may vote for any presidential candidate as he/she pleases. Non us citicens are are not allowed to vote but do have a large interest in the outcome. nobody is served with the us running into a concrete wall... nobody is served by a unilateratic us, wether we like the current us administration or not... if we can not get our act together and save some of the fabrics of our international community we will find it pretty hard to face the challanges our western community and western values is facing in this time and age. The US is integral part of this world community, wether it likes it or not. and the us can not do it all alone... and should not do it alone even if it could... so yes your choice is up to you! be proud of your country! be proud of the civil rigths your country is based on! but remeber the world is much more colorfull then the black and white of the current bush cs ideologies... they do not even seem to have a grayscale... please vote in a way that the us interest is served, but i mean really served! and that is pretty complex and long term and beyond the borders of the US then many of the posters here seem to think.

my 2€c

jan willem

Tom@JHU said:
Chris A said:

You people are suicidal to be thinking Bush for another term. What
is up with the American people lately? OK, 9-11 happened and since
Bush was in charge we should all follow is lead like Lambs waiting
to be slaughtered. Then five years from now when 500K more people
are out work and gas cost $4 per gallon we could at lease say that
we did the American think and stuck by our Pres.
......flame away...................

Click to expand...

Suicidal? Hmmm, so we should vote for another Clinton wannabe?
And wait for Arab terrorists to kill another 3000 of us, or maybe
next time it'll be 3 million? No I'm not suicidal, I don't want
another weak playboy president like Clinton who was too worried
about his image with the world than defending the interests of his
country. He knew who our enemies were and what their goal was, yet
he did little to go after them during his reign? No, unlike
Clinton and most other Democratic candidates, Bush is strong and he
is not afraid to do whatever is neccessary to defend this country
and her interests.

--
my canon s45 portfolio can be seen at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars at
my 'recent archives' there. Reactions appreciated.

Tom@JHU · Sep 28, 2003

Well, you make some fine points. However, your fundamental thesis is incorrect. The current anti-american attitude did not start with US unilaterialism, it started ever since the end of the Cold War, when those who dependent on us no longer needed american strength to serve their interests. At that point, American power began to be viewed with suspicion and jealousy. After all power is the most sought after commodity for human beings, even more so than money and sex. Those who have it want to keep it, those who do not have it want to gain it.

So even though we've been fairly "internationalist" in the 90s, anti-americanism still grew. Ultimately, what has our multi-lateral policies gotten us? 3000 dead americans, and crocodile tears from our so called-allies, and many who try to marginalize the event (see the French book about how 9/11 was staged by the US military? or how many times I've heard "you Americans had it coming"). Well enough is enough. Multi-laterialism obviously is not to our interests. Time to try something different. Time to put our interest first and do what we think is neccessary to safeguard America. We should certainly look for allies, but if none are willing, then we will do it alone.

I personally don't believe in "international community". There is no such thing because "international community" is not a political entity. All that is is some countries band together for certain causes and then disagree on others. It is simply countries serving their own interest, and it appears many countries interest is to "contain" American power. That's fine, but don't expect us to simply lay down and be marginalized. As you can see, now our interests directly conflicts with those of some other countries. In such a conflict I certainly will vote for a leader that will do everything in his power to prevail.

Jan Willem Mars said:
And please do not forget that although the US economy is the most
vibrant one on earth it still is triving on borrowed money... one
day this paycheck has to be paid with all consequences for the
possibility of the us to play the balancing role it could ans
should, and if the us does not pay back it will drag the rest of
the worlds economy with it...

tom; the us has lost a tremendous amount of credit the last couple
of years, the question is wether the us is solving or creating
problems rigth now... and not only for the us itself...

every body is entiteled to have his/her own opnion and may vote for
any presidential candidate as he/she pleases. Non us citicens are
are not allowed to vote but do have a large interest in the
outcome. nobody is served with the us running into a concrete
wall... nobody is served by a unilateratic us, wether we like the
current us administration or not... if we can not get our act
together and save some of the fabrics of our international
community we will find it pretty hard to face the challanges our
western community and western values is facing in this time and
age. The US is integral part of this world community, wether it
likes it or not. and the us can not do it all alone... and should
not do it alone even if it could... so yes your choice is up to
you! be proud of your country! be proud of the civil rigths your
country is based on! but remeber the world is much more colorfull
then the black and white of the current bush cs ideologies... they
do not even seem to have a grayscale... please vote in a way that
the us interest is served, but i mean really served! and that is
pretty complex and long term and beyond the borders of the US then
many of the posters here seem to think.

my 2€c

jan willem

Tom@JHU said:

Chris A said:

You people are suicidal to be thinking Bush for another term. What
is up with the American people lately? OK, 9-11 happened and since
Bush was in charge we should all follow is lead like Lambs waiting
to be slaughtered. Then five years from now when 500K more people
are out work and gas cost $4 per gallon we could at lease say that
we did the American think and stuck by our Pres.
......flame away...................

Click to expand...

Suicidal? Hmmm, so we should vote for another Clinton wannabe?
And wait for Arab terrorists to kill another 3000 of us, or maybe
next time it'll be 3 million? No I'm not suicidal, I don't want
another weak playboy president like Clinton who was too worried
about his image with the world than defending the interests of his
country. He knew who our enemies were and what their goal was, yet
he did little to go after them during his reign? No, unlike
Clinton and most other Democratic candidates, Bush is strong and he
is not afraid to do whatever is neccessary to defend this country
and her interests.

Click to expand...

--
my canon s45 portfolio can be seen at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars at
my 'recent archives' there. Reactions appreciated.

--

I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Bob Haverford · Sep 28, 2003

Tom@JHU said:
Chris A said:

You people are suicidal to be thinking Bush for another term. What
is up with the American people lately? OK, 9-11 happened and since
Bush was in charge we should all follow is lead like Lambs waiting
to be slaughtered. Then five years from now when 500K more people
are out work and gas cost $4 per gallon we could at lease say that
we did the American think and stuck by our Pres.
......flame away...................

Click to expand...

Suicidal? Hmmm, so we should vote for another Clinton wannabe?
And wait for Arab terrorists to kill another 3000 of us, or maybe
next time it'll be 3 million? No I'm not suicidal, I don't want
another weak playboy president like Clinton who was too worried
about his image with the world than defending the interests of his
country. He knew who our enemies were and what their goal was, yet
he did little to go after them during his reign? No, unlike
Clinton and most other Democratic candidates, Bush is strong and he
is not afraid to do whatever is neccessary to defend this country
and her interests.

Jan Willem Mars · Sep 28, 2003

Tom,

I did not have any arguement were the anti-amaricanisme started or not. anti-amaricanisme is around for a long time and has various "sources". The point i tried to make is that it is in the self interest of the US to collaborate. yes there are 3000 dead amaricans and every day the toll is rising in Irak unfortunatly.... but even if it were 3 million dead the biggest harm is done when the USA is not true to its own principles of its own founding fathers and the civil rigths it embodies...

it is not unillateralisme that is going to be the answer to anti-amaricanisme in the world, unilateralisme also fends off a lot of other people. people that make day to day decisions, also in the voting boot and that were supporting the us for a very long time.

I myselve have always been a person that thougth that the EU should cooperate economically (ratio on the one side but also a way to contain countries and peoples that have slauthered each other to such an extend for centuries that 3000 dead are not even a by line in history in comparrisson!) but remain a group of independent countries; but now I really bellief with my whole hart that, if we like it or not, that the EU has to become a united power of its own, just to defend our own interests also and probably especcially to the world dominant player: the US... how far has it come? and this has nothing to with anti-amaricanisme.... but just being open minded for the challanges we are all facing. The us is just a katalist here... it is mearly reacting at the same mechanismes as we do... but it would have been much better if we could have stayed together. Now the US states it wants to be on its own, it leaves me/us no other option as to defend our own...

Jan Willem

--
my canon s45 portfolio can be seen at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars at
my 'recent archives' there. Reactions appreciated.

Tom@JHU · Sep 28, 2003

Jan Willem Mars said:
Tom,

I did not have any arguement were the anti-amaricanisme started or
not. anti-amaricanisme is around for a long time and has various
"sources". The point i tried to make is that it is in the self
interest of the US to collaborate. yes there are 3000 dead
amaricans and every day the toll is rising in Irak unfortunatly....
but even if it were 3 million dead the biggest harm is done when
the USA is not true to its own principles of its own founding
fathers and the civil rigths it embodies...

We have never ceased to collaborate. In every actions we undertook, we've consulted and we've tried to convince others to join us. But if others are unwilling or opposes us for whatever reason, do we simply just give up? Does collaborate means we should succumb to the wish of others and completely ignore what we feel must be done?

And what does the principles of our founding fathers have to do with all this? In case you don't remember, they fought a war for our freedom. Now we are doing something similar, except this time, it is not against oppression, it is against terror and fear, a far more dangerous threat to freedom than even what they faced.

Jan Willem Mars said:
it is not unillateralisme that is going to be the answer to
anti-amaricanisme in the world, unilateralisme also fends off a lot
of other people. people that make day to day decisions, also in the
voting boot and that were supporting the us for a very long time.

I don't support complete unilateralism either, and I don't think we are doing that. But there must be a balance between unilaterialism and multilateralism. We can't just ignore everyone else, nor can we solely act when all are in agreement, because let's face it, that will never happen. We should find allies whenever we can, but when none are present, it shouldn't stop us either.

Jan Willem Mars said:
peoples that have slauthered each other to
such an extend for centuries that 3000 dead are not even a by line
in history in comparrisson!) but remain a group of independent
countries;

Well, 3000 of my fellow americans butchered may mean nothing to you, but it certainly means something to me. They are my people, so their death means more to me than all of history. If the same thing happened to 3000 Dutch, would you not feel a deeper sense of loss and outrage than if it were people with whom you have no connections? I doubt you can even honestly answer this question without ever experiencing such an event, and I hope you don't have to.

Jan Willem Mars said:
but now I really bellief with my whole hart that, if we
like it or not, that the EU has to become a united power of its
own, just to defend our own interests also and probably especcially
to the world dominant player: the US... how far has it come? and
this has nothing to with anti-amaricanisme.... but just being open
minded for the challanges we are all facing. The us is just a
katalist here... it is mearly reacting at the same mechanismes as
we do... but it would have been much better if we could have stayed
together. Now the US states it wants to be on its own, it leaves
me/us no other option as to defend our own...

I agree with you here, the EU (and by that I mean mostly France and Germany) are doing what's in their interest to enhance their power and interests. Right now, that means challenging American interest. I see nothing wrong with that and certainly don't hate them for it. It goes to my point about there are no friends in international relations, only interests. They do what they have to do, and we do what we have to do.

Jan Willem Mars said:
--
my canon s45 portfolio can be seen at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars at
my 'recent archives' there. Reactions appreciated.

--

I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Jan Willem Mars · Sep 28, 2003

tom;

we can go on and on; just to prevent misconceptions here:

Tom@JHU said:
Well, 3000 of my fellow americans butchered may mean nothing to
you, but it certainly means something to me. They are my people,
so their death means more to me than all of history. If the same
thing happened to 3000 Dutch, would you not feel a deeper sense of
loss and outrage than if it were people with whom you have no
connections? I doubt you can even honestly answer this question
without ever experiencing such an event, and I hope you don't have
to.

It does mean a lot to me and many others... more then americans generally seem to think... just because we europeans have suffered so deaply... we have seen so much aggony coming forth out of idealisme that we even lost it almost entirely... but 3000 dead does not place you above history, it is (just) a part of it, it does not place you over others as they are also suns and daugthers, people with connections...

Tom@JHU said:
I agree with you here, the EU (and by that I mean mostly France and
Germany) are doing what's in their interest to enhance their power
and interests. Right now, that means challenging American
interest.

if it were that simple...

I see nothing wrong with that and certainly don't hate

Tom@JHU said:
them for it. It goes to my point about there are no friends in
international relations, only interests. They do what they have to
do, and we do what we have to do.

It will be a very bad day for the USA and for all of us if the us has to pull back from irak... we ducth hav sent our military to afganistan and irak to back up the us, a small token of our support... but also a way of keeping the lines open toi the US who we still regard our friends: please do a better job in securing peace then you have been so far... it is getting out of hand...

jw

Tom@JHU said:
Tom@JHU said:

--
my canon s45 portfolio can be seen at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars at
my 'recent archives' there. Reactions appreciated.

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

--
my canon s45 portfolio can be seen at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars at
my 'recent archives' there. Reactions appreciated.

Tom@JHU · Sep 28, 2003

Jan Willem Mars said:
tom;

we can go on and on; just to prevent misconceptions here:

Yes, let's agree to disagree and end it here, my last reply.

Jan Willem Mars said:
Jan Willem Mars said:

Well, 3000 of my fellow americans butchered may mean nothing to
you, but it certainly means something to me. They are my people,
so their death means more to me than all of history. If the same
thing happened to 3000 Dutch, would you not feel a deeper sense of
loss and outrage than if it were people with whom you have no
connections? I doubt you can even honestly answer this question
without ever experiencing such an event, and I hope you don't have
to.

Click to expand...

It does mean a lot to me and many others... more then americans
generally seem to think... just because we europeans have suffered
so deaply... we have seen so much aggony coming forth out of
idealisme that we even lost it almost entirely... but 3000 dead
does not place you above history, it is (just) a part of it, it
does not place you over others as they are also suns and daugthers,
people with connections...

Your point is your history has seen so much death that 3000 death is barely a footnote. I guess from my perspective, we have only seen an attack like this once before in our history, that was 62 years ago and you know what resulted from it. Further, this is not about being above history (whatever that means), it's about been part of it. The events I experienced will certainly mean more to me than events I read in the book from some far away land. As to people, well death is always tragic, but death of your own people have a larger impact because their connection to you is closer.

Jan Willem Mars said:
Jan Willem Mars said:

I see nothing wrong with that and certainly don't hate
them for it. It goes to my point about there are no friends in
international relations, only interests. They do what they have to
do, and we do what we have to do.

Click to expand...

It will be a very bad day for the USA and for all of us if the us
has to pull back from irak...

This comment surprises me. I thought most europeans wanted the US to leave Iraq immediately. At least that's the position of France and Germany. It seems they would rather have Iraq descend into complete anarchy and allow fundamentalists and terrorists to thrive there than to have the US in charge of the rebuilding process. Well, we got rid of Saddam's regime, therefore it is our responsibility to put together an effective government for both our sake and the Iraqis. If that costs us $87billion, then it's worth it.

Jan Willem Mars said:
we ducth hav sent our military to
afganistan and irak to back up the us, a small token of our
support... but also a way of keeping the lines open toi the US who
we still regard our friends:

Glad to hear we still have friends who would support us, even when they don't neccessarily agree with us. It is appreciated and will not be forgotten.

Jan Willem Mars said:
please do a better job in securing
peace then you have been so far... it is getting out of hand...

In the last 2 decades, the world (at least the part that the US has influence over) has seen less war and war related death than almost any other era in history. I would hardly call it out of hand, though we can always do better.

Philip Ong · Sep 28, 2003

I think I am wasting my time trying to open the eyes of the blind Repubicans living in a stage of denial. It's as clear as daylight the Republicans policy of only focusing on the rich won't work! Everytime the Republican took over the country. The country got into a chaos and now U.S.A. is the most hated nation on earth. Go figure out. Surely you don't think Clinton era causes that too, right.

Bill Brosen said:
Not one liberal has sttated how they will help protect us from
future attacks on our country, all they do is bash Bush, and Gore
cheated in Florida first by trying to recount the votes over and
over and by going to the courts plus he wanted to discount the
military absentee ballots..hmmm just who tried to disenfranchise
whom? Besides everyone now knows the truth about Gore and Florida,
repeating the old lies does not work anymore

http://www.pbase.com/wbrosen/photoart

Philip Ong · Sep 28, 2003

The main reason why it did not got worst is because the economy during the Clinton era has accumulated so much trade surplus that Bush couldn't squander it fast enough but he did a good job with the U.S.A. image with the world. That's almost irrepearable!

Tom@JHU said:
Philip Ong said:

AO said:

Bill Brosen said:

you may have cheap DSL access but we are a free country....

Click to expand...

DMCA, PATRIOT, PATRIOT-II...

You have a funny definition of "free"

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Sam Curcio · Sep 28, 2003

It seems as though I started something here. I really didn't want to get into politics, just a simple question of why Europe seems to be the new consumer stronghold. I think that someone defined it properly by saying simlpy that the EU is growing and with the growth there will be more buying power. We may see the price of fuel go down over there because of the bargaining power that the Europen community will have as a whole. That will leave the US with less power and more of a reason to develop our own fuel resources. We will become passe in the economic arena.

All in all, I for one don't put the blame on the president, no matter who is in the office. I blame the greedy CEO's that employee a good portion of the Americans. What happens when they get caught (Enron)? The workers get the shaft. The greed hasn't stopped yet. Watch how the stock market is trying to make a fierce comeback. This week, some smart investors pulled back because they realised that the stocks were getting overvalued again...already. Have we not learned our lesson from the dotcom mess? I don't think the world will stand for more of that greedy stuff. A stable growing economy is developing...it's the new Europe.

siscar · Sep 28, 2003

Tom@JHU said:
Glad to hear we still have friends who would support us, even when they > don't neccessarily agree with us. It is appreciated and will not be > forgotten.

You do have friends, although you do not always make it easy. I was in America on September 11th this year with some Australians. They (and I) were stunned to find that nobody they spoke to had even heard of the Bali bombing. All talk was of 9/11 and when they tried to say that they understood something of the trauma after Bali nobody knew what they were talking about.

heavyweather · Sep 28, 2003

13% of the US people live in poverty.
= a 4 people family with an income of under 15.000$ year.

Clayphish said:
Although the Canadian healthcare system isn't perfect, it's still
better then whats available in the US.

Tom@JHU said:

Derrick said:

Clayphish said:

nothing to do with the original question you may have cheap DSL
access but we are a free country....

Click to expand...

oh and they have that great healthcare system too, remember?

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Click to expand...

--
******************************************

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/40625?PHPSESSID=83d3a4daf9e5d5291cad7f53a28e039a

heavyweather · Sep 28, 2003

The US depents on other countrys...
Now you are trying to rule the rest of the world alone...
But its good that the US will pay everything in Irak now.

I just fear that Lybia and Iran are the next countrys on the list when you have enough money again.

Tom@JHU said:
Clayphish said:

While breaking the geneva accord by stepping foot in Iraq
unilaterally?

Click to expand...

What part of the geneva accord was broken? So what about Kosovo?
Do you think Clinton as well as those other NATO leaders broken
whatever part of the geneva accord that Bush supposedly broke in
Iraq?

Tom@JHU said:

If Bush and his administration were good at leading the United
States then they would take into account all the countries they do
deals with, when they deal with them. If they shun these countries,
like they and other administrations have done before, then they'll
be shooting themselves in the foot for the future. Because, United
States cannot function on it's own; it needs to co-exist with every
country that keeps it's economy going.

Click to expand...

You've never heard of the phrase "there are no friends in
international relations, only interests." This has always been
true and is especially evident today. I don't deny that the world
is changing and becoming increasingly interdependent, it is
precisely during this transitional period that countries try to
shape the world to their advantage. Bush correctly uses the
leverage of American power to further our interests and our goals.
That is what he's supposed to do because he is the president of
this country and his duties is to serve Americans and Americans
only. Yes, we do take into account all the countries we deal with.
If it is in our interest to be friends with certain countries, then
we will be friendly with them, and if it is neccessary to be
hostile, then we will do that too.

--
******************************************

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/40625?PHPSESSID=83d3a4daf9e5d5291cad7f53a28e039a

Cliff. Johnston · Sep 28, 2003

Tom,

Give Gen'l Clark another week or two, and we'll see him beating Bush in the polls. Talk about cannon fodder at the VFW posts!!! Bush who conveniently contrived to serve out of harms way and advance on his daddy's shirt tails vs. a real live military general who earned his success the hard way.

He's the first candidate in 30 years that I feel ready to work for again - hope springs eternal.

Cliff.

Tom@JHU said:
BobTrips said:

The more that 50% of Americans who aren't happy with the present
appointee?

--
bob
Latest offering - 'Two Hours in Delhi'
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
Shots from a bunch of places (esp. SEA and Nepal).
Pictures for friends, not necessarily my best.

http://www.trekearth.com/members/BobTrips/photos/
My better 'attempts'.

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

--
Cliff. Johnston

Cliff. Johnston · Sep 28, 2003

Chris,

I've said it before, but I'll repeat it for effect.

Here in Texas when Bush was governor and running for the presidency I attended a county Republican meeting. They came right out and said that they had to work hard to get Bush elected President so that we could get a "good" governor here for the state of Texas. Continuing with that line of thinking they came right out and said that as President, Bush counldn't do too much damage because of all of the beaurocracy in Washington.

Well, I wonder what some of those county Republican gurus are saying now knowing what we do now about "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq, etc., etc., etc.?

Cliff.

Chris A said:
Tom@JHU said:

Sam Curcio said:

After reading about the lack of interest in the US market, I don't
get it with these camera and electronics manufacturers. The largest
consumer market in the world, and they won't release new products
in the USA. Don't they like us anymore? Maybe the European
Community is the new consumer hotbed. That Euro sure looks inviting.

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Click to expand...

--
CLICKADDICT!

--
Cliff. Johnston

Don't they like the USA anymore?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Forum Enthusiast

Leading Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Keyboard shortcuts