The same arguments about the EM1x

Ab Latchin said:

The major push at winning the FF mirrorless wars will leave Olympus and Fuji with a larger crop sensor market with both companies having deep lens selections and little competition.

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justmeMN said:

Ab Latchin said:

The major push at winning the FF mirrorless wars will leave Olympus and Fuji with a larger crop sensor market with both companies having deep lens selections and little competition.

Click to expand...

If there is "little competition", then why is the Canon M50 / Kiss M the best selling mirrorless camera in Japan? It's been that way for many months.

Click to expand...

glassoholic said:

I am probably getting the X but wonder if I will regret it when an EM1.3 comes out with almost everything the X has but a lot cheaper?

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glassoholic said:

Messier Object said:

Paco 316 said:

Messier Object said:

Ab Latchin said:

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

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So your preference for a gripped E-M1 II for professional shoots means that a gripped E-M1 II should be what everybody else wants and needs - is that what you are saying ?

Do you use the E-M1 II for non professional work ?

Do you always use the battery grip for recreational shooting, eg when travelling ?

Can’t you at least acknowledge that many people would like the best Olympus camera but with the option to remove the grip when they want a less bulky body ?

we actually do know what’s in the majority of the extra space of the EM1X. It’s a slide-in carriage that takes two BLH-1 batteries

Peter

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And do you understand that the E-M1X is a complete different model than that of the E-M1.

Do you understand that Olympus has 7 Levels (styles) of cameras?
E-M1X
E-M1
E-M5
E-M10
Pen F
E-P
E-PL
Are these not enough?
Can you at least acknowledge that you are judging without thinking?
Should Olympus have a "Peter Department" and make a model named after you? Only what you want counts? The rest is garbage?
Please!

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I like what I have so far seen of the E-M1X, and I like my E-M1 II, but what I specially like I about the E-M1 II is that it’s the best Olympus has made, and it has an optional grip and for those times when I need a smaller camera I can take the grip off without losing any features or performance.

Its going to be a real pity that soon the best Olympus camera ever made won’t have an optional grip.

This is what I dislike:

”so many people are already complaining about the size of the E-M1 X. But let me tell you that I use an E-M1 II for my professional work and I always use the grip”

How does that help anybody?

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I am probably getting the X but wonder if I will regret it when an EM1.3 comes out with almost everything the X has but a lot cheaper?

Click to expand...

Paco 316 said:

Messier Object said:

Ab Latchin said:

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

Click to expand...

So your preference for a gripped E-M1 II for professional shoots means that a gripped E-M1 II should be what everybody else wants and needs - is that what you are saying ?

Do you use the E-M1 II for non professional work ?

Do you always use the battery grip for recreational shooting, eg when travelling ?

Can’t you at least acknowledge that many people would like the best Olympus camera but with the option to remove the grip when they want a less bulky body ?

we actually do know what’s in the majority of the extra space of the EM1X. It’s a slide-in carriage that takes two BLH-1 batteries

Peter

Click to expand...

And do you understand that the E-M1X is a complete different model than that of the E-M1.

Do you understand that Olympus has 7 Levels (styles) of cameras?

Click to expand...

Paco 316 said:

E-M1X
E-M1
E-M5
E-M10
Pen F
E-P
E-PL
Are these not enough?
Can you at least acknowledge that you are judging without thinking?
Should Olympus have a "Peter Department" and make a model named after you? Only what you want counts? The rest is garbage?
Please!

Click to expand...

Ab Latchin said:

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

We don't know what Olympus has chosen to do with the extra room, maybe it is for the dual processors and cooling, maybe it is for extra IBIS tech and motion sensors, maybe it has sim tech/wifi and an antenna etc.

"It's too expensive"
Currently the Nikon D750, a 24mp FF body retails at $1300 at BH, the Nikon D5 retails at $6500 at BH. How can Nikon justify the price difference? It isn't image quality as the D750 has that beaten on all fronts. We are talking 4 times the price, how could they dare ask such a price with no IQ improvement????

The Pen F, a 20mp rangefinder is currently $999 at BH, at $3000 this body would be 3 times the price. It would offer a number of technical features that the Pen doesn't, as well as the usual benchmarks of a professional grade tool of build quality, reliability etc.

But more importantly if it performs the part, and we have no idea yet, it is under half the price of the larger sensor camera targeting the same market.

"The sensor is tiny"
2 stops. That is the difference between the smaller sensor and the larger. Visit the wildlife 2018 photographer award on the home page. Note the apertures are stopped down for the most part and depth of field is best described as "deep" in most images.

Most sports imagery is not poster material, but online and in small print. This is why, combined with speed, all sports cameras have around 20mp.

Often one of those 2 stops is clawed back by lenses. So if a FF users uses a 300mm f4, the difference is one stop, one. The FF user needs to buy the fastest long lenses to maintain that advantage. So they need a 300mm f2.8, 400mm f2.8, 600mm f4. And if they select the lighter option the advantage is now 1 stop, one.

"Noone will buy it"
The idea that the majority of m43rds users are frail individuals who only casually use the equipment and need the lightest stuff possible becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. If Olympus never builds a top of the line body, people who want a top of the line body will never be able to buy it.

If technologies are as leading as seem to be implied:
Fastest FPS with AF
Industry leading stabilization
Hand Held High res (portrait, landscape, macro
GPS, barometer and thermometer readings in camera
Longest battery life of any mirrorless camera
Fully functional wifi and high speed sharing of files
Most complete mirrorless lens suite of any camera maker
Improved video with LOG and framerate options
Industry leading weathersealing and ruggedness

Those elements have real value. The hand held high res might be enough for me to get it. If it combines that with GH5-ish video quality it is a no-brainer.

"It is like 43rds all over again"
This is complete revisionist history. When Olympus moved to Mirrorless it was ahead of the game, when it moved to AF cameras and Digital SLRs it was behind the times.

When Olympus launched the E-Volt system it began with its most expensive cameras and lenses and trickled down. However in mirrorless it built from the ground up, with smaller lenses and cameras first, building up to a professional set of bodies.

When Olympus made the E-5 it was trailing the leaders in almost every technology, AF, DR, Resolution, Video specs, Lens selection etc. Today with the new EM1x the m43rds system has one of the most diverse lens selections and technologies in the market.

To finish, without a doubt the camera market is contracting. However the production of lenses and bodies to expand the usefulness of the lenses in the system makes the system successful. When DJI makes a drone with the M43rds mount they sell Olympus and Panasonic lenses, as Black Magic makes a class leading video camera with a m43rds mount they sell m43rds lenses etc.

The success of this mount is less on the individual bodies, but as an ecosystem. The EM1x builds on 10 years of mirrorless development, as the major players move into mirrorless and their users move into the mirrorless space, being the maker with the smallest high performance body and fullest suite of compatible lenses is not to be ignored.

The major push at winning the FF mirrorless wars will leave Olympus and Fuji with a larger crop sensor market with both companies having deep lens selections and little competition. In fact, so little that I wouldn't be surprised if sony releases an APSC body soon.

Anyways, back to work.

Click to expand...

iamphil said:

Olympus is badly misjudging their audience and market

Click to expand...

nostradamus_8 said:

iamphil said:

Olympus is badly misjudging their audience and market

Click to expand...

They are not at all. They are not expecting any high sales number for this camera. It is built to celebrate their 100 year and to showcase all the tech they have developed that eventually will be deployed in other cameras to come. My Olympus contact said that this camera is not expected to make a profit, they see it as marketing money well spent.

Click to expand...

Wu Jiaqiu said:

nostradamus_8 said:

iamphil said:

Olympus is badly misjudging their audience and market

Click to expand...

They are not at all. They are not expecting any high sales number for this camera. It is built to celebrate their 100 year and to showcase all the tech they have developed that eventually will be deployed in other cameras to come. My Olympus contact said that this camera is not expected to make a profit, they see it as marketing money well spent.

Click to expand...

to be honest if they wanted to make a real showcase camera they should have made it smaller, OM10 size and packed with the same features.....now that would be a tour de force rather than something that looks like a Dslr....unimaginative if you ask me

Click to expand...

gary0319 said:

Wu Jiaqiu said:

nostradamus_8 said:

iamphil said:

Olympus is badly misjudging their audience and market

Click to expand...

They are not at all. They are not expecting any high sales number for this camera. It is built to celebrate their 100 year and to showcase all the tech they have developed that eventually will be deployed in other cameras to come. My Olympus contact said that this camera is not expected to make a profit, they see it as marketing money well spent.

Click to expand...

to be honest if they wanted to make a real showcase camera they should have made it smaller, OM10 size and packed with the same features.....now that would be a tour de force rather than something that looks like a Dslr....unimaginative if you ask me

Click to expand...

While I might agree that the apparent size of the E-M1X is not my idea of a camera I might be interested in, it seems it has my friend (a recent Olympus convert) is in a mating frenzy for this release because it looks to him like a miniature of his beloved Canon 1DX II.

So I say, if it gets my friend to sell his 1 DX II to fund the E-M1X.....Mission Accomplished for Olympus.

Click to expand...

Wu Jiaqiu said:

gary0319 said:

Wu Jiaqiu said:

nostradamus_8 said:

iamphil said:

Olympus is badly misjudging their audience and market

Click to expand...

They are not at all. They are not expecting any high sales number for this camera. It is built to celebrate their 100 year and to showcase all the tech they have developed that eventually will be deployed in other cameras to come. My Olympus contact said that this camera is not expected to make a profit, they see it as marketing money well spent.

Click to expand...

to be honest if they wanted to make a real showcase camera they should have made it smaller, OM10 size and packed with the same features.....now that would be a tour de force rather than something that looks like a Dslr....unimaginative if you ask me

Click to expand...

While I might agree that the apparent size of the E-M1X is not my idea of a camera I might be interested in, it seems it has my friend (a recent Olympus convert) is in a mating frenzy for this release because it looks to him like a miniature of his beloved Canon 1DX II.

So I say, if it gets my friend to sell his 1 DX II to fund the E-M1X.....Mission Accomplished for Olympus.

Click to expand...

well my point was about a showcase camera, by all means make a big one for general sale but to really show off micro....4/3rds make it small and powerful.....seems like common sense

Click to expand...

Ab Latchin said:

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

We don't know what Olympus has chosen to do with the extra room, maybe it is for the dual processors and cooling, maybe it is for extra IBIS tech and motion sensors, maybe it has sim tech/wifi and an antenna etc.

"It's too expensive"
Currently the Nikon D750, a 24mp FF body retails at $1300 at BH, the Nikon D5 retails at $6500 at BH. How can Nikon justify the price difference? It isn't image quality as the D750 has that beaten on all fronts. We are talking 4 times the price, how could they dare ask such a price with no IQ improvement????

The Pen F, a 20mp rangefinder is currently $999 at BH, at $3000 this body would be 3 times the price. It would offer a number of technical features that the Pen doesn't, as well as the usual benchmarks of a professional grade tool of build quality, reliability etc.

But more importantly if it performs the part, and we have no idea yet, it is under half the price of the larger sensor camera targeting the same market.

"The sensor is tiny"
2 stops. That is the difference between the smaller sensor and the larger. Visit the wildlife 2018 photographer award on the home page. Note the apertures are stopped down for the most part and depth of field is best described as "deep" in most images.

Most sports imagery is not poster material, but online and in small print. This is why, combined with speed, all sports cameras have around 20mp.

Often one of those 2 stops is clawed back by lenses. So if a FF users uses a 300mm f4, the difference is one stop, one. The FF user needs to buy the fastest long lenses to maintain that advantage. So they need a 300mm f2.8, 400mm f2.8, 600mm f4. And if they select the lighter option the advantage is now 1 stop, one.

"Noone will buy it"
The idea that the majority of m43rds users are frail individuals who only casually use the equipment and need the lightest stuff possible becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. If Olympus never builds a top of the line body, people who want a top of the line body will never be able to buy it.

If technologies are as leading as seem to be implied:
Fastest FPS with AF
Industry leading stabilization
Hand Held High res (portrait, landscape, macro
GPS, barometer and thermometer readings in camera
Longest battery life of any mirrorless camera
Fully functional wifi and high speed sharing of files
Most complete mirrorless lens suite of any camera maker
Improved video with LOG and framerate options
Industry leading weathersealing and ruggedness

Those elements have real value. The hand held high res might be enough for me to get it. If it combines that with GH5-ish video quality it is a no-brainer.

"It is like 43rds all over again"
This is complete revisionist history. When Olympus moved to Mirrorless it was ahead of the game, when it moved to AF cameras and Digital SLRs it was behind the times.

When Olympus launched the E-Volt system it began with its most expensive cameras and lenses and trickled down. However in mirrorless it built from the ground up, with smaller lenses and cameras first, building up to a professional set of bodies.

When Olympus made the E-5 it was trailing the leaders in almost every technology, AF, DR, Resolution, Video specs, Lens selection etc. Today with the new EM1x the m43rds system has one of the most diverse lens selections and technologies in the market.

To finish, without a doubt the camera market is contracting. However the production of lenses and bodies to expand the usefulness of the lenses in the system makes the system successful. When DJI makes a drone with the M43rds mount they sell Olympus and Panasonic lenses, as Black Magic makes a class leading video camera with a m43rds mount they sell m43rds lenses etc.

The success of this mount is less on the individual bodies, but as an ecosystem. The EM1x builds on 10 years of mirrorless development, as the major players move into mirrorless and their users move into the mirrorless space, being the maker with the smallest high performance body and fullest suite of compatible lenses is not to be ignored.

The major push at winning the FF mirrorless wars will leave Olympus and Fuji with a larger crop sensor market with both companies having deep lens selections and little competition. In fact, so little that I wouldn't be surprised if sony releases an APSC body soon.

Anyways, back to work.

Click to expand...

gary0319 said:

Wu Jiaqiu said:

gary0319 said:

Wu Jiaqiu said:

nostradamus_8 said:

iamphil said:

Olympus is badly misjudging their audience and market

Click to expand...

They are not at all. They are not expecting any high sales number for this camera. It is built to celebrate their 100 year and to showcase all the tech they have developed that eventually will be deployed in other cameras to come. My Olympus contact said that this camera is not expected to make a profit, they see it as marketing money well spent.

Click to expand...

to be honest if they wanted to make a real showcase camera they should have made it smaller, OM10 size and packed with the same features.....now that would be a tour de force rather than something that looks like a Dslr....unimaginative if you ask me

Click to expand...

While I might agree that the apparent size of the E-M1X is not my idea of a camera I might be interested in, it seems it has my friend (a recent Olympus convert) is in a mating frenzy for this release because it looks to him like a miniature of his beloved Canon 1DX II.

So I say, if it gets my friend to sell his 1 DX II to fund the E-M1X.....Mission Accomplished for Olympus.

Click to expand...

well my point was about a showcase camera, by all means make a big one for general sale but to really show off micro....4/3rds make it small and powerful.....seems like common sense

Click to expand...

It’s all relative, IMO. My friend views the E-M1X as a “small and powerful” replacement for his 1DX. Me? I would never have owned the 1DX in the first place because it is too big, and so is this new Olympus. I’m hoping that some of that new tech finds it’s way into a Pen F II or E-M5 III, or a follow on to my E-M1 II.

Click to expand...

Wu Jiaqiu said:

gary0319 said:

Wu Jiaqiu said:

gary0319 said:

Wu Jiaqiu said:

nostradamus_8 said:

iamphil said:

Olympus is badly misjudging their audience and market

Click to expand...

They are not at all. They are not expecting any high sales number for this camera. It is built to celebrate their 100 year and to showcase all the tech they have developed that eventually will be deployed in other cameras to come. My Olympus contact said that this camera is not expected to make a profit, they see it as marketing money well spent.

Click to expand...

to be honest if they wanted to make a real showcase camera they should have made it smaller, OM10 size and packed with the same features.....now that would be a tour de force rather than something that looks like a Dslr....unimaginative if you ask me

Click to expand...

While I might agree that the apparent size of the E-M1X is not my idea of a camera I might be interested in, it seems it has my friend (a recent Olympus convert) is in a mating frenzy for this release because it looks to him like a miniature of his beloved Canon 1DX II.

So I say, if it gets my friend to sell his 1 DX II to fund the E-M1X.....Mission Accomplished for Olympus.

Click to expand...

well my point was about a showcase camera, by all means make a big one for general sale but to really show off micro....4/3rds make it small and powerful.....seems like common sense

Click to expand...

It’s all relative, IMO. My friend views the E-M1X as a “small and powerful” replacement for his 1DX. Me? I would never have owned the 1DX in the first place because it is too big, and so is this new Olympus. I’m hoping that some of that new tech finds it’s way into a Pen F II or E-M5 III, or a follow on to my E-M1 II.

Click to expand...

an option to have a new EM1 model with built in grip or without makes sense, a Pen F with all the X features sounds very tasty....a bit of a sleeper camera

Click to expand...

Raist3d said:

PenF is a premium priced camera after all. Or was.

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nzmacro said:

I have no idea what you take, but when you say this twice ....... "one stop, one"

It seems like to you that's not much. To me that's huge. I'll take that thanks. I was taking shot's last weekend with FF at 1/4000 - 1/8000 and m4/3 at 1/2000 - 1/4000 at lowish ISO's. I'll be doing the same again in another week.

Then we have the different crop factors for different reasons, not everyone is the same.

All the best and do you take motor sport shots?

Danny.

Click to expand...

Leo3 said:

Okapi001 said:

Ab Latchin said:

If technologies are as leading as seem to be implied:
Fastest FPS with AF
Industry leading stabilization
Hand Held High res (portrait, landscape, macro

Click to expand...

The only problem is that this looks too good to be true.

It's hard to imagine the revolution a handheld 80 mpix resolution (at 1/60 sec) would mean. Virtualy all the landscapes, most portraits, a lot of wildlife and a lot of other stuff in a medium-format quality. And on top of that a state-of-the art autofocus, image stabilisation ... for only $3000.

I'm afraid that if something looks too good to be true, it usually is not true.

Well, I reckon we'll see soon enough ;-)

Click to expand...

Not sure if anyone knows for sure with this, but the hand-held high res mode at 1/60 sec , does that mean 1/60 sec is the slowest shutter speed it will work ? Would it also work at say 1/500 sec or faster ? or will it only work at 1/60 sec ? or even a certain range of shutter speeds?

Obviously I'm not expecting it to work with BIF but just thinking 80mp perched birds at 1/250 sec would be nice

Click to expand...

Messier Object said:

Its going to be a real pity that soon the best Olympus camera ever made won’t have an optional grip.

Click to expand...