Reading mode: Light Dark

S3/S4/S5 - Woudn't it be nice if...

Go to last post
Chris Tofalos

Chris Tofalos

Leading Member
Messages
655
Reaction score
48
Location
Bolton, UK
Woudn't it be nice if, whatever plans Fuji have for a successor to the S2, they built it round the redundant Nikon D1/H/X body instead of the F80 or similar 'enthusiast' bodies.

Imagine, top image quality AND solid build, superfast AF, interchangeable focussing screens, etc, etc. Please, please, please!
 
Chris Tofalos said:
Woudn't it be nice if, whatever plans Fuji have for a successor to
the S2, they built it round the redundant Nikon D1/H/X body instead
of the F80 or similar 'enthusiast' bodies.

Imagine, top image quality AND solid build, superfast AF,
interchangeable focussing screens, etc, etc. Please, please, please!
Click to expand...
How much are you willing to pay? How much is the average dSLR user willing to pay?

I imagine that question figured prominently in the very early S3 meetings between marketing and engineering at Fuji when they we deciding on the feature set and parameters of the camera. If they go with the camera you suggest above, will they sell enough to make money? Or will they price themselves out of the market since they don't have as broad a camera lineup as their competitor? (D1X/D1H wannabees have the D100 to fall back on).

--
H McCollister
 
I don't think Fuji will release a S4 model: in
the east number 4 is seen as a bringer
of disgrace.
Canon skipped the G4 at all.
  • Anfy
 
Anfy said:
I don't think Fuji will release a S4 model: in
the east number 4 is seen as a bringer
of disgrace.
Canon skipped the G4 at all.
Click to expand...
Rumor has it that Canon skipped the G4 name because it is so prominent in Apple's marketing of their G4 lineup of Macintosh computers.

--
H McCollister
 
From:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2209.html

"In Japan there are certain things one does not do because they are thought to cause bad luck. A few examples are:
The number four:

The number four is considered inauspicious because it is pronounced the same as the word for death (shi). Therefore, one should not make presents that consit of four pieces, etc. In some hotels and hospitals the room number four is skipped."

That would make sense with the rumours of a S5 to come one day,
after the S3 - no mention of the S4. As to me, I'm still undecided on the
wonderful S2, maybe with a 45mm f2,8 AI, who know where I'll be in the S5 era...
  • Anfy
hmac said:
Anfy said:
I don't think Fuji will release a S4 model: in
the east number 4 is seen as a bringer
of disgrace.
Canon skipped the G4 at all.
Click to expand...
Rumor has it that Canon skipped the G4 name because it is so
prominent in Apple's marketing of their G4 lineup of Macintosh
computers.

--
H McCollister
Click to expand...
 
from what I've seen here and in the marketplace, they were successful with the S2 because of the file it creates. People overlooked the two battery system, the lack of flash sync faster than 1/125th, the AF system of the N80, the klugey software, and the rest because it produced a file that many thought better than the competition. And they stustained a higher price than for the Canon D60 and Nikon D100

They have also made big investments and big announcements about their enhanced dynamic range sensors.

The two flies in the ointment have been the Canon 1Ds (better file but 4x more expensive) and the Canon 10D (materially less expensive than the S2 for "similar" featrues and the file quality wasn't enough to sustain the price difference). (I think that the Kodak 14n has had enough problems not to draw too many customers away from Fuji, though they may be getting it right through firmware upgrades, though not enough low light performance for my needs).

The things they can do easily are adapt their ehanced dynamic range sensors to the N80 body, fix the software and work on the flash sync speed.

Unless they are going to completely change their marketing approach, I think they will try to re-establish their place as having the "best" file for those who won't spend $8k on the 1Ds but who are willing to buy quality rather than the lowest price.

I'd expect a N80 body, a bigger sensor (1.3x or FF) with enhanced dynamic range, and some minor tweaks that will be appreciated by serious users. I'd expect a price materially under the 14n but above $3k.

Of course, this is pure speculation based on no knowledge from Fuji. But that would be the most consistent with what they've done with the S2.
Chris Tofalos said:
Woudn't it be nice if, whatever plans Fuji have for a successor to
the S2, they built it round the redundant Nikon D1/H/X body instead
of the F80 or similar 'enthusiast' bodies.

Imagine, top image quality AND solid build, superfast AF,
interchangeable focussing screens, etc, etc. Please, please, please!
Click to expand...
--
http://www.mantarayarts.com
 
The no 4 being BAD luck is very very true.. Even then it comes to FREAKING pictures..

I do A LOT of asian weddings and all the older people wont ever pose in pictures with 4 people in it... That is how bad it is.. Even down to not letting their be 4 bridesmaids or 4 groomsmen or 4 of anything....

I wonder what they call FOREPLAY> ????? :)
Anfy said:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2209.html

"In Japan there are certain things one does not do because they are
thought to cause bad luck. A few examples are:
The number four:
The number four is considered inauspicious because it is pronounced
the same as the word for death (shi). Therefore, one should not
make presents that consit of four pieces, etc. In some hotels and
hospitals the room number four is skipped."

That would make sense with the rumours of a S5 to come one day,
after the S3 - no mention of the S4. As to me, I'm still undecided
on the
wonderful S2, maybe with a 45mm f2,8 AI, who know where I'll be in
the S5 era...
  • Anfy
hmac said:
Anfy said:
I don't think Fuji will release a S4 model: in
the east number 4 is seen as a bringer
of disgrace.
Canon skipped the G4 at all.
Click to expand...
Rumor has it that Canon skipped the G4 name because it is so
prominent in Apple's marketing of their G4 lineup of Macintosh
computers.

--
H McCollister
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Nikon has to be willing to sell them those bodies/parts. I'm sure part of it is Fuji's decision on cost per unit, but I also don't know that Nikon is willing to sell them F5 or F100 bodies.

Teski
Chris Tofalos said:
Woudn't it be nice if, whatever plans Fuji have for a successor to
the S2, they built it round the redundant Nikon D1/H/X body instead
of the F80 or similar 'enthusiast' bodies.

Imagine, top image quality AND solid build, superfast AF,
interchangeable focussing screens, etc, etc. Please, please, please!
Click to expand...
--
Teski

'Remember that DSLR bodies come and go, but the lenses stay forever.'
 
Manta Ray Arts said:
from what I've seen here and in the marketplace, they were
successful with the S2 because of the file it creates. People
overlooked the two battery system, the lack of flash sync faster
than 1/125th, the AF system of the N80, the klugey software, and
the rest because it produced a file that many thought better than
the competition. And they stustained a higher price than for the
Canon D60 and Nikon D100

They have also made big investments and big announcements about
their enhanced dynamic range sensors.
Click to expand...
that will be the deal breaker. If they adapt this sensor to a f80 or f100 body people will buy it.
Manta Ray Arts said:
The two flies in the ointment have been the Canon 1Ds (better file
but 4x more expensive) and the Canon 10D (materially less expensive
than the S2 for "similar" featrues and the file quality wasn't
enough to sustain the price difference). (I think that the Kodak
14n has had enough problems not to draw too many customers away
from Fuji, though they may be getting it right through firmware
upgrades, though not enough low light performance for my needs).
Click to expand...
I dont think they will be hable to fix the problems in firmware. so software denoiser are great but they still cant truly make a difference between "true" data and noise.
Manta Ray Arts said:
The things they can do easily are adapt their ehanced dynamic range
sensors to the N80 body, fix the software and work on the flash
sync speed.
Click to expand...
sync speed is matched with the body. It would be too dificult to adapt a new shutter for the n80. But the rest is easily do-hable (how do your write that, sorry I speak french) I would realy like a preview with an histo without the need to press a button to accept the image. That and a few more color spaces.
Manta Ray Arts said:
Unless they are going to completely change their marketing
approach, I think they will try to re-establish their place as
having the "best" file for those who won't spend $8k on the 1Ds but
who are willing to buy quality rather than the lowest price.
Click to expand...
yes
Manta Ray Arts said:
I'd expect a N80 body, a bigger sensor (1.3x or FF) with enhanced
dynamic range, and some minor tweaks that will be appreciated by
serious users. I'd expect a price materially under the 14n but
above $3k.
Click to expand...
they should go for the f100 body
Manta Ray Arts said:
Of course, this is pure speculation based on no knowledge from
Fuji. But that would be the most consistent with what they've done
with the S2.
Click to expand...
yes, you are wright.

--
Gaetan J.
 
Teski said:
Nikon has to be willing to sell them those bodies/parts. I'm sure
part of it is Fuji's decision on cost per unit, but I also don't
know that Nikon is willing to sell them F5 or F100 bodies.

Teski
Click to expand...
that's a big point you have there. If Fuji continue to buy the bodies from Nikon they will have to fit in the overall marketing strategy of Nikon. But then you have to remember that nikon is a lens cie that happen to make dslr/slr bodies. There is a lot more lens stuff made by Nikon then just dslr/slr camera lens. At the moment i m writing I just appen to wear a polo shirt with the nikon logo that was given to me by a Nikon glasses (eye lens :-) rep. While I never was able to get anything (freebees) from the "camera" rep.

--
Gaetan J.
 
Really??? I'd like to know which shop - am in Macau :) Dont mind an M Leica for 1/2 the price!

thanks
-p-
ricardo franca said:
hmac said:
Anfy said:
I don't think Fuji will release a S4 model: in
the east number 4 is seen as a bringer
of disgrace.
Canon skipped the G4 at all.
Click to expand...
Rumor has it that Canon skipped the G4 name because it is so
prominent in Apple's marketing of their G4 lineup of Macintosh
computers.

--
H McCollister
Click to expand...
--
ricardo frança
Click to expand...
 
if fuji were to choose a f5/d1x type of body that woudl scare many potential buyers in my view... big and very heavy! ok top notch body, but way beyond most people want a s2 successor for. it doesnot have to be a small camera house like the pentax *ist or the canon 300d but a f5 like size/weigth is to much! I would deter me of buying one (apart from the price hike this will lead to) so my votes fo a "midi"body instead of a maxi or a mini!
Gaetan J. said:
they should go for the f100 body

--
Gaetan J.
Click to expand...
--

my portfolio can be seen at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars . Reactions appreciated.
 
are we all missing this possibility?.... random musings...

... maybe Fuji might make their OWN body for the S3 and not use a Nikon body at all? Maybe the S1 and S2 using the Nikon bodies were a stop-gap measure until they could develop their engineering on a new body. Of course, it would have to be Nikon mount- Could they licence just the mount?? Fuji obviously has the resources to make a body, and the skill to make it happen.

Along another out-of-the-box thought... I am marginally happy with the reduced sensor size- what I would REALLY love to see is a square sensor to use the full capacity- edge to edge of my current Nikon lenses. I mean, think about it... digital cameras are not tied to film size any longer- why not go square? - If not that- at least go FF.- So much of what my lens could capture is lost inside the camera outside the sensor. Also, one thing that annoys me is that the depth of field is shorter with the small sensor. A cofc of about .16 or .22 (depending who you talk to, and regular 35mm is about .3. That seriously depleats the DoF.

... this should stimulate conversation!

.. just random thoughts...

Cheers;

John S
 
John, do some real world testing. In a photographic sense, as opposed to math sense, our smaller sensor gives MORE DOF than a 35mm film body.

Stand in a given spot and focus on a given distance (object) with your S2 and take the image at a given F/Stop. Now switch to your film camera, stand in the SAME spot and use a lens to give the same view/picture (it will be 2/3 the length of the S2). Take the image at the same F/Stop. Print both and you will find the S2 has more DOF.

Math tells us the S2 should haveabout 1 f/stop more DOF than the 35mm. Some of this appears to dissapear due to your "circle of confusion" concerns, but ony a small amount.

This isn't always a good thing. Folks wanting those razor thin DOF portraits have a harder time using the S2!

Where this gets confused is in comparing the DOF of a "60mm lens" on 35mm versus a "60mm lens" on the S2. In this case the 35mm does have more DOF due to it's smaller magnification. But, as photographers, this is meaningless. We wouldn't make the same image from the same spot with thesame lens on both cameras. That is math, not photography!

Yes, I have tested that myself :-)
John Schulte said:
BIG SNIP>
Along another out-of-the-box thought... I am marginally happy with
the reduced sensor size- what I would REALLY love to see is a
square sensor to use the full capacity- edge to edge of my current
Nikon lenses. I mean, think about it... digital cameras are not
tied to film size any longer- why not go square? - If not that- at
least go FF.- So much of what my lens could capture is lost inside
the camera outside the sensor. Also, one thing that annoys me is
that the depth of field is shorter with the small sensor. A cofc of
about .16 or .22 (depending who you talk to, and regular 35mm is
about .3. That seriously depleats the DoF.
Click to expand...
--
Tom Ferguson
http://www.ferguson-photo-design.com
 
Tom Ferguson said:
John, do some real world testing. In a photographic sense, as
opposed to math sense, our smaller sensor gives MORE DOF than a
35mm film body.

Stand in a given spot and focus on a given distance (object) with
your S2 and take the image at a given F/Stop. Now switch to your
film camera, stand in the SAME spot and use a lens to give the same
view/picture (it will be 2/3 the length of the S2). Take the image
at the same F/Stop. Print both and you will find the S2 has more
DOF.

Math tells us the S2 should haveabout 1 f/stop more DOF than the
35mm. Some of this appears to dissapear due to your "circle of
confusion" concerns, but ony a small amount.
Click to expand...
I will take your word for it- I am NOT a photographer, and a quick glance at my pictures would prove that point! ;) Anyway, I will accept your point of veiw- I had never considered the additional variable of moving to frame the shot differently between the two cameras- I stand corrected.

John S
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top