We're doomed...

At this point, the internet-forum obsession with promoting fullframe and denigrating any smaller-sensor size is getting absurd. I strongly suspect that there's massive astroturfing campaigns ongoing.
Three years ago i'd have waved the idea off as idle paranoia. Today, not so much.

{Is there any dark money to go troll the other maker forums? Asking for a friend.}

Cheers,

Rick
not as much as you think....apparently
You'd say that wouldn't you, comrade?
i can't imagine there would be much of a payout for going onto forums to promote a company above another, especially in light that i once read or saw posted by a member of the DPR staff that the forums represented some of the lowest traffic on this site
I remember reading that comment . We may not be the highest traffic area of DPreview but I bet we cause them the most grief :-D
and cheap at half the price....allegedly
It is a bit comical to think that any of the big makers lets say Canon. Who alone have almost half of the entire ILC market share being perturbed by m43 which is probably in the 6% market share zone. I think drunken junkets for "journalists" to Hawaii is a much more successful marketing approach :-)

 
I wonder if those who write doomed posts look a bit like Fraiser from Dads Army? :-)
If I did not trim my eyebrows I could see myself going that way , and I have the accent right :-)
when i go to the Turkish barber he just trims my eyebrows and burns off my ear hairs without asking......... yes it's got to that point
I have not tried a Turkish barber's , the thought of burning puts me off a tad . Plus sexy Senga who works in my local barber has talents that a moustachioed Turkish guy cannot match :-)
 
I wonder if those who write doomed posts look a bit like Fraiser from Dads Army? :-)
If I did not trim my eyebrows I could see myself going that way , and I have the accent right :-)
when i go to the Turkish barber he just trims my eyebrows and burns off my ear hairs without asking......... yes it's got to that point
I have not tried a Turkish barber's , the thought of burning puts me off a tad . Plus sexy Senga who works in my local barber has talents that a moustachioed Turkish guy cannot match :-)
i had a haircut in Marrakech once.....lots of fire involved with that one......
 
I wonder if those who write doomed posts look a bit like Fraiser from Dads Army? :-)
If I did not trim my eyebrows I could see myself going that way , and I have the accent right :-)
when i go to the Turkish barber he just trims my eyebrows and burns off my ear hairs without asking......... yes it's got to that point
I have not tried a Turkish barber's , the thought of burning puts me off a tad . Plus sexy Senga who works in my local barber has talents that a moustachioed Turkish guy cannot match :-)
i had a haircut in Marrakech once.....lots of fire involved with that one......
It gets quite hot with Senga as well no fire though
 
I wonder if those who write doomed posts look a bit like Fraiser from Dads Army? :-)
If I did not trim my eyebrows I could see myself going that way , and I have the accent right :-)
when i go to the Turkish barber he just trims my eyebrows and burns off my ear hairs without asking......... yes it's got to that point
I have not tried a Turkish barber's , the thought of burning puts me off a tad . Plus sexy Senga who works in my local barber has talents that a moustachioed Turkish guy cannot match :-)
i had a haircut in Marrakech once.....lots of fire involved with that one......
It gets quite hot with Senga as well no fire though
that heat are the hellfires waiting to devour your sinful soul :D
 
I wonder if those who write doomed posts look a bit like Fraiser from Dads Army? :-)
If I did not trim my eyebrows I could see myself going that way , and I have the accent right :-)
when i go to the Turkish barber he just trims my eyebrows and burns off my ear hairs without asking......... yes it's got to that point
I have not tried a Turkish barber's , the thought of burning puts me off a tad . Plus sexy Senga who works in my local barber has talents that a moustachioed Turkish guy cannot match :-)
i had a haircut in Marrakech once.....lots of fire involved with that one......
It gets quite hot with Senga as well no fire though
that heat are the hellfires waiting to devour your sinful soul :D
That ship sailed a long time ago , # pitchfork in ass :-)
 
I was thinking about lens design, prompted by reading about how 'superb' the new Nikon Z lenses are supposed to be. Aberrations, distortion, etc all designed out.

For recording an image on film, the lens has to be really good because it is the final image that is recorded on the film and there's not much that can be done to improve it afterwards (or is there, maybe nowadays?) - a reasonable assumption historically.
Things like vignetting could be corrected for in a manual enlarger, but not in automatic printing. Some distortion could be corrected too, but at big time expense. You could use different gamma paper of modify its developing to change contrast. There was no such thing as "sharpening" or "CA removal".
But recording onto electronic sensor(s) is surely a whole different game. Take chromatic aberration. Isn't this where the prism effect means a simple lens focusses different colours at different points on the image plane.

So how could you get round this? You could have three filtered sensor/lenses simultaneously recording say R G and B with slightly different simple-lens to sensor distances. Or maybe one simple-lens and sensor but move the lens slightly between exposures and combine later. And maybe circular sensors, look how carp the lens in the human eye is. Multiple sensors could be small and simpler to make, but combined to add up to high enough resolution counts.
Multiple sensors for RBG have been used a long time in video cameras. In hobby astronomy it is common to use a cooled black/white camera (chip without bayer mask) and then take multiple images with RGB and other filters mounted on a filter wheel in sequence. The images are then "stacked" in software to form a color picture. However, it is done for reasons other than correct for inferior lenses.

Or think of computerized medical imaging. We can make very high quality pictures without lenses and light, from x-ray and Gamma radiation, from magnetic resonance of Hydrogen (water) and many other nuclei like Carbon. We can even combine these pictures into one single image to guide surgeons in 3 dimensions or to precisely deliver the beam from a linear accelerator.

However, there is always a lot of expensive technology behind. Today it is so much cheaper to make a good lens in the first place, rather than to correct for its errors. The easier things like correcting geometrial distortion, to some extent CA, artificial bokeh etc can already be done today on the cheap.
So there must be a *fundamental* difference in the requirements of lens performance between film and digital that Smartphone cameras can exploit to get satisfactory images with cheaper, smaller, simpler recording hardware. Many photographers still use lenses designed for film cameras (and expect to be able to do so) and there seems to be a tacit acceptance that digital camera lenses should continue to be designed to interface with digital 'cameras' in the traditional way.
The possibilities are indeed endless. Think of a future smartphone that can also take pictures from invisible infrared or UV radiation.... or take a handheld CT scan from your skeleton...

One day one may even take virtual pictures, from a computer model of our world. Why go out to visit a scene... Think of google maps in 3d at a much much higher resolution. You want to take a sunrise at Sydney bridge from coordinates xyz, enter the time 06:13am, the focal length from your home lounge. Countless people have taken similar pictures before you, they are all on file.... or you may choose taking your pic of a scene on Jupiter. It will soon become boring and you will find yourself another hobby, of which there will be plenty.
So maybe smartphone camera design will achieve genuine parity with traditional camera design. After all there must be some really really 'clever b*ggers' working on it. Perhaps it's wrong to assume inherent inferiority in performance of the smartphone approach
I have no doubt about that. Question is, will I still be around, or will it already happen in the next 5 to 10 years. We live in a great time, probably the best time to be around. We can experience all these technology advances.... right before artificial intelligence is going tho first enslave humans then render us extinct.

Not "We're doomed....", WE are doomed!
 
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I have no idea why so many people spend so much time trying to tell everyone that X or Y is going to happen, based almost entirely on no actual information whatsoever and usually on no industry experience whatsoever.

Presumably, they just like the sound of their own voices since doing so can have no logical benefit at all; general discussion is one thing but round here it has mutated into obsession.

Olympus will succeed or Olympus will go the way of Kodak etc. Absolutely no amount of ranting here will influence that outcome. Olympus cameras will continue to work, just as Allard cars continue to work today, many decades after they ceased being made. Perhaps (probably) not as long but there will be other cameras to choose from.

Meanwhile, use what you have and enjoy it. Changing brands if you have to, want to or need to is just part of life. No need to express so much existential angst over the success or otherwise of one particular manufacturer.
 
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The lonely planet scenario - cars that will be auto-drive - even now lane change warning and auto emergency breaking might make texting while you drive much safer :)

The situation where the urge to fiddle with your phone is stronger than actually talking to a person sitting at your table.

Cameras that are so good that you literally point and shoot and every picture is perfect. We rave about the progress towards that matter every day on this forum.

The end of the joy of learning a craft - whether just talking, driving a car responsibly, or being able to adjust your camera to make that picture into a great one.

Surely we are doomed ... to a planet where learning skills is no longer necessary so we have to invent other methods of entertainment .... “skill free neighbourhoods” :)

Terminal boredom.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
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I was thinking about lens design, prompted by reading about how 'superb' the new Nikon Z lenses are supposed to be. Aberrations, distortion, etc all designed out.

For recording an image on film, the lens has to be really good because it is the final image that is recorded on the film and there's not much that can be done to improve it afterwards (or is there, maybe nowadays?) - a reasonable assumption historically.
Things like vignetting could be corrected for in a manual enlarger, but not in automatic printing. Some distortion could be corrected too, but at big time expense. You could use different gamma paper of modify its developing to change contrast. There was no such thing as "sharpening" or "CA removal".
In fact, sharpening is not the invention of the digital era. It was invented 80+ years ago.

 
The lonely planet scenario - cars that will be auto-drive - even now lane change warning and auto emergency breaking might make texting while you drive much safer :)

The situation where the urge to fiddle with your phone is stronger than actually talking to a person sitting at your table.

Cameras that are so good that you literally point and shoot and every picture is perfect. We rave about the progress towards that matter every day on this forum.

The end of the joy of learning a craft - whether just talking, driving a car responsibly, or being able to adjust your camera to make that picture into a great one.

Surely we are doomed ... to a planet where learning skills is no longer necessary so we have to invent other methods of entertainment .... “skill free neighbourhoods” :)

Terminal boredom.
wonderful thought isn't it, ditched my mobile phone 4 years ago....bliss
 
I was thinking about lens design, prompted by reading about how 'superb' the new Nikon Z lenses are supposed to be. Aberrations, distortion, etc all designed out.

For recording an image on film, the lens has to be really good because it is the final image that is recorded on the film and there's not much that can be done to improve it afterwards (or is there, maybe nowadays?) - a reasonable assumption historically.
Things like vignetting could be corrected for in a manual enlarger, but not in automatic printing. Some distortion could be corrected too, but at big time expense. You could use different gamma paper of modify its developing to change contrast. There was no such thing as "sharpening" or "CA removal".
In fact, sharpening is not the invention of the digital era. It was invented 80+ years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking
In an enlarger or printer, you can change the "hardness" of the light to influence contrast and sharpness (together). That is whether the light rays are direct or diffuse. It is done when designing the light house, but it can be altered somewhat by using a more or less transparent diffusion plate (more or less milky) under the negative.

The downside of using this kind of "sharpening" is, that even the finest minor scratches and dust specs on the negative become visible on the print. You got tho handle the film very carefully (gloves) and have a near dust free environment. For this reason, labs tendering to amateurs usually preferred to use very diffuse (soft) light to mask these imperfections. At the expense of sharpness. Especially so in the case of re-prints, where many/most customers brought badly stored/scratched/dusty negative strips. Whereas professional labs preferred hard light sources, and even took the time to swap diffusor plates when a soft image like for some portraits was desired. As a rule, one could always turn a hard light source into a soft one, but not the other way around. Needless to say, a hard light source is much more expensive to make, especially because of the color mixing and the much greater problems to achieve light homogeneity.

The kind of color filters used in the light house also affected contast/sharpness. Gelatine filters were bad causing a veil and loss of sharpness, whereas the much more expensive dichroic glass filters were best (they also were a better spectral match to the film, leading to purer colors). Also near IR and UV radiation from the lamp had to be filtered out well, as film was sensitive to those causing a veil. I still remember all this, it was my bread and butter 40 years ago...
 
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We’ll see, in the mean while Olympus made profit on their cameras last year, so it is not all bad yet.
 
We’ll see, in the mean while Olympus made profit on their cameras last year, so it is not all bad yet.
I do not think they did




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And things are not shaping up to be any better this year


The good news is that at least Olympus have a successful medical division to support them. I think things are going to become increasingly tight in the camera market and the companies who rely heavily on photographic gear nay find the going tough

--
Jim Stirling
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” John Adams
 
aaa6623272c64d99befae2c827b587b3.jpg.png

You're right, I don't know where I looked yesterday.

BTW the big loss in Q4 is caused by closure of their China production plant.
 
aaa6623272c64d99befae2c827b587b3.jpg.png

You're right, I don't know where I looked yesterday.

BTW the big loss in Q4 is caused by closure of their China production plant.
I think going forward that the camera business is going to become increasingly challenging for all the players.

--
Jim Stirling
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” John Adams
 
I think going forward that the camera business is going to become increasingly challenging for all the players.
.....for all the remaining players....

The whole ILC business is in decline. Given that background, Olympus is not doing that bad.
 
The FF Panny could become the flagship video rig. A critical mass of folk here could drop their m4/3 cameras in favor of it, too, hollowing out m4/3 from the inside.

One just never knows with these things.
 
I was thinking about lens design, prompted by reading about how 'superb' the new Nikon Z lenses are supposed to be. Aberrations, distortion, etc all designed out.

For recording an image on film, the lens has to be really good because it is the final image that is recorded on the film and there's not much that can be done to improve it afterwards (or is there, maybe nowadays?) - a reasonable assumption historically.
Things like vignetting could be corrected for in a manual enlarger, but not in automatic printing. Some distortion could be corrected too, but at big time expense. You could use different gamma paper of modify its developing to change contrast. There was no such thing as "sharpening" or "CA removal".
In fact, sharpening is not the invention of the digital era. It was invented 80+ years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking
David Malin is a better reference for a history of unsharp masking.

 
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Or at least some have a different approach to fun, I suppose. Anyway, every time I see a post like this, I have the impression that the OP has hidden feelings which are covered by "fun". Maybe I am wrong.
Let me tell you, the whole intent of my thread was to have some fun using some movie references, which happen to fit the current subject of Olympus going bananas perfectly, nothing else. If people like to go crazy thinking that Olympus or the m43 consortium is going to burst into flames, I don't really care much. We have one job (kinda), keeping the forum fun and useful. And keeping people from throwing chairs at each other, so having some fun from time to time I think it can be allowed. Can it?
Sure, it can. And thanks for taking your time for clarify this to me. The interesting thing is that I have never felt touched by those m43 bashing posts. However, what insults me a bit is the opposite champ, the "m43 is as good as FF" or "m43 is the [general] sweet spot" threads, and I say this as a m43 user for 8 years now. But I hate propaganda and bias. Maybe we are similar in this, aren't we?
Applying your own logic, what are we to conclude about your 'hidden feelings', if you are upset by pro-m43 arguments?

LOL
 

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