Helios 44M-7 - conclusively spotting fakes?

107 Pobedy Street Valdai, aka Valady, Russia

Google Earth 3D.. no StreetView

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Smoke stack at the rear of the factory, likely where the glass cakes are made... this is Street view from the 4 lane highway that runs behind the plant... between the highway and the factory are train tracks...
 
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107 Pobedy Street Valdai, aka Valady, Russia

Google Earth 3D.. no StreetView

821759a3a0ce4356bab034c80a4d40b2.jpg.png

fa087ec2ef5e489b8476407c317104db.jpg.png

81b7146b97f545be9e29dda54edff3b5.jpg.png

Smoke stack at the rear of the factory, likely where the glass cakes are made... this is Street view from the 4 lane highway that runs behind the plant... between the highway and the factory are train tracks...
Excellent!
 
Forgive me for not reading through the whole of this topic, but I thought I'd add to the conversation with a small piece of knowledge. In 2016 I bought a small collection of soviet lenses and cameras from the widow of a collector that stopped collecting lenses at least ten years prior to my purchase.

The collection included a few less common lenses such as a MIR-24h, Kaleinar 5h and MIR-38B . Amongst the collection there was a very nasty Zenit ET with a Valdai 44M-7, and it was dated as a 1992 lens. The performance of the lens was excellent and it's provenance would suggest it was the genuine article.

Sample shot.

 
Back 10+ years ago there just wasn't really the industry in fake (or more properly 're-badged) Helios 44*'s that there is today, so its highly likely to have been genuine'. The trouble is especially by the 90's, there was a lot iof variance between copies, and with the addition of 25 years of use, it's still a bit of a lucky dip.

Tim
 
Hmm why people are so crazy about Helios-44 family of lenses, I wonder. If you want "a better Helios than Helios" then the answer is

MC HELIOS-81H (after around 1992, labeled as ARSAT-H)
  • It has the same Helios optical scheme but a "new generation" one, facelifted, refactored, optimized and optically recalculated to utilize the benefits from modern (at the time) blend of lanthanum optical glass.
  • It is more of a "standard lens" - 52 mm with 45 degrees AOV (vs. 58 and 40 degrees AOV).
  • It is sharper than MC H-44M-7 and has better contrast, less prone to flares and introduces fewer aberrations.
  • It has native Nikon F bayonet lens mount with correct flange distance so it just fits any Nikon body which is aware of manual lenses, no adapters.
  • It is not so overhyped so it's cheap as hell, is widely available and its quality is less variable.
Why does it seem to be mostly ignored by vintage lenses fans, any ideas?
 
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Never been on my radar but will be now. I got a 44M in a lot of things and found it rather unimpressive.
Hmm why people are so crazy about Helios-44 family of lenses, I wonder. If you want "a better Helios than Helios" then the answer is

MC HELIOS-81H (after around 1992, labeled as ARSAT-H)
  • It has the same Helios optical scheme but a "new generation" one, facelifted, refactored, optimized and optically recalculated to utilize the benefits from modern (at the time) blend of lanthanum optical glass.
  • It is more of a "standard lens" - 52 mm with 45 degrees AOV (vs. 58 and 40 degrees AOV).
  • It is sharper than MC H-44M-7 and has better contrast, less prone to flares and introduces fewer aberrations.
  • It has native Nikon F bayonet lens mount with correct flange distance so it just fits any Nikon body which is aware of manual lenses, no adapters.
  • It is not so overhyped so it's cheap as hell, is widely available and its quality is less variable.
Why does it seem to be mostly ignored by vintage lenses fans, any ideas?
 
Hmm why people are so crazy about Helios-44 family of lenses, I wonder. If you want "a better Helios than Helios" then the answer is

MC HELIOS-81H (after around 1992, labeled as ARSAT-H)
  • It is sharper than MC H-44M-7 and has better contrast, less prone to flares and introduces fewer aberrations.
mostly ignored by vintage lenses fans, any ideas?
if people plan to use adapted glass mainly for sharpness and contrast, compared to modern glass, then I think they are fooling themselves. Most (but no tall) vintage lenses are way inferior in that department and Helios 44 is one of them.

I have a case full of native M.Zuiko lenses that are stupid sharp but I rarely use those. In my case I like to use lenses that give me aberrations, distortions and flare; it's a look that modern glass can not give me. So why look for a "better" lens as you described it? There are a couple of members here that value sharpness above anything else and are forever measuring and fretting about such traits. I think they would be better off just getting most cheap (even some Chinese) modern lenses and call it a day.

If one can not value the "imperfections" of old lenses he/she maybe is missing the whole point. :-)
 
Hmm why people are so crazy about Helios-44 family of lenses, I wonder. If you want "a better Helios than Helios" then the answer is

MC HELIOS-81H (after around 1992, labeled as ARSAT-H)
  • It has the same Helios optical scheme but a "new generation" one, facelifted, refactored, optimized and optically recalculated to utilize the benefits from modern (at the time) blend of lanthanum optical glass.
  • It is more of a "standard lens" - 52 mm with 45 degrees AOV (vs. 58 and 40 degrees AOV).
  • It is sharper than MC H-44M-7 and has better contrast, less prone to flares and introduces fewer aberrations.
  • It has native Nikon F bayonet lens mount with correct flange distance so it just fits any Nikon body which is aware of manual lenses, no adapters.
  • It is not so overhyped so it's cheap as hell, is widely available and its quality is less variable.
Why does it seem to be mostly ignored by vintage lenses fans, any ideas?
Not much cheaper, at least looking at eBay and comparing with what I paid my 44K.

Less optical defects is not necessarily good, since those lens are bought for their optical defects. Without, they become kinda meh.

More normal FL is not exactly a plus either, since I already have a couple of 50mm lenses, but no 58.

Native Nikon F mount ditto, since I shoot Pentax (YMM of course V).
 
Not much cheaper, at least looking at eBay and comparing with what I paid my 44K.
On eBay you are watching items which were bought locally for €3-€7 together with the camera bodies and put on sale thereafter. If you will look at current local prices, you will see the difference - note that 500 UAH is about €17. Scroll down, the cheapest offers are empty bodies (below UAH 500) from which lenses are already removed. Offers for body + working lens start from UAH 550.
Less optical defects is not necessarily good, since those lens are bought for their optical defects. Without, they become kinda meh.
I agree with you but you do want at least something to be in focus inside your frame, don't you?
More normal FL is not exactly a plus either, since I already have a couple of 50mm lenses, but no 58.
MC H-81H (aka ARSAT-H) is not 58, it is real 52 mm. H-44 lenses are 58 mm.
Native Nikon F mount ditto, since I shoot Pentax (YMM of course V).
Yes, for you this is of no benefit then.
 
Not much cheaper, at least looking at eBay and comparing with what I paid my 44K.
On eBay you are watching items which were bought locally for €3-€7 together with the camera bodies and put on sale thereafter. If you will look at current local prices, you will see the difference - note that 500 UAH is about €17. Scroll down, the cheapest offers are empty bodies (below UAH 500) from which lenses are already removed. Offers for body + working lens start from UAH 550.
I was looking at eBay dot it, this explains it :)
Less optical defects is not necessarily good, since those lens are bought for their optical defects. Without, they become kinda meh.
I agree with you but you do want at least something to be in focus inside your frame, don't you?
My 44K is reasonably sharp near the center even w.o.

Gets good enough from 2.8 onwards
More normal FL is not exactly a plus either, since I already have a couple of 50mm lenses, but no 58.
MC H-81H (aka ARSAT-H) is not 58, it is real 52 mm. H-44 lenses are 58 mm.
I know, I was saying that a Helios 44 makes more sense than a Helios 81 in my collection, because of the FL.
Native Nikon F mount ditto, since I shoot Pentax (YMM of course V).
Yes, for you this is of no benefit then.
To each his own I guess :)

Best regards
 
I know, I was saying that a Helios 44 makes more sense than a Helios 81 in my collection, because of the FL.
There is one more option for a vintage lens. You can grab and try a copy of an original Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 1:2 58mm M42 from 1920th, of which H-44 is a pale copy. They are still available around. These are (and always were) better than H-44 because German optical technologies and materials of 1920s were superior to USSR at least until late 1970s. I mean that only around 1970 USSR lens and optical industry caught up with German level of 1920s, just 50 years lag behind, I guess.
 
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I know, I was saying that a Helios 44 makes more sense than a Helios 81 in my collection, because of the FL.
There is one more option for a vintage lens. You can grab and try a copy of an original Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 1:2 58mm M42 from 1920th, of which H-44 is a pale copy. They are still available around. These are (and always were) better than H-44 because German optical technologies and materials of 1920s were superior to USSR at least until late 1970s. I mean that only around 1970 USSR lens and optical industry caught up with German level of 1920s, just 50 years lag behind, I guess.
I spent like 23€ for a 44K-4 in as-new conditions, complete with original caps. 179€ is a bit steep...

My Helios is from 1992.
 
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original Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 1:2 58mm M42 from 1920th, of which H-44 is a pale copy.
I spent like 23€ for a 44K-4 in as-new conditions, complete with original caps. 179€ is a bit steep...
But doesn't it bother you that you are using a fake and imperfect Biotar clone, made from substandard glass? ;)
My Helios is from 1992.
That's good because, before MC H-44M generation, Helioses were of questionable quality, and after 1992 the QC on the factories drastically degraded. 1990-91-92 AFAIK are the best years for H-44M. Your sample is definitely nice.
 
original Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 1:2 58mm M42 from 1920th, of which H-44 is a pale copy.
I spent like 23€ for a 44K-4 in as-new conditions, complete with original caps. 179€ is a bit steep...
But doesn't it bother you that you are using a fake and imperfect Biotar clone, made from substandard glass? ;)
My Helios is from 1992.
That's good because, before MC H-44M generation, Helioses were of questionable quality, and after 1992 the QC on the factories drastically degraded. 1990-91-92 AFAIK are the best years for H-44M. Your sample is definitely nice.
I'm using a SMC-M 80-200/4.5 in place of a nice D-FA 70-200/2.8*... that should bother me more! XD

It's nice in fact... but not so nice that it doesn't swirl. It swirls quite a lot on APS-C as well in fact :)
 
Here's a KMZ 44M-7 - not mine

 
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I was sent one of those and I concluded it was not a 44M-7. Ebay refunded my money while the seller did not want to spring for return shipping so I got to keep the lens too. Eventually I managed to get the real deal, with the correct serial number from another vendor!
Yep, that looks as fake as it gets. Lovely brand new packaging for a lens with clear wear. And since when did KMZ ever make a 44m7?
 
Yep, that looks as fake as it gets. Lovely brand new packaging for a lens with clear wear. And since when did KMZ ever make a 44m7?
Funny. They even managed to use three different names for the lens – one on the front plate, 2nd one on the box, and 3rd one on the product manual.
 
Yep, that looks as fake as it gets. Lovely brand new packaging for a lens with clear wear. And since when did KMZ ever make a 44m7?
Funny. They even managed to use three different names for the lens – one on the front plate, 2nd one on the box, and 3rd one on the product manual.
I think that we only have ourselves to blame. The basic lens itself is a quite good perfomer and came in a huge number of models. As millions were made they were cheap and good value. To put an M7 on a pedestal as something very special is only to invite a higher price for it (and a bit of faking).

The M5, M6 and M7 are all hand selected versions of the same lens presumably tested for ground resolution quality at assembly - or maybe they came off lens grinding machines that were achieving higher tolerances - maybe just using the fact that the lens grinding machines were getting old and worn and some were performaing better than others.

For the later made lenses there can be no external differences in build. The main issue of this old and lengthy thread is on whether or not there ever were some earlier M7 lenses made. This gives a huge area of doubt and even if posisble just when did the “M7” labelling start. As the issue is fraught I think that only the very late “M7” can be considered “genuine” and I accept this theory even though I think that in actual fact the practice started at some earlier date.

Some very earlier re-named faceplate lenses must be fakes but an element of doubt cannot fruitfully exclude the possibility that there was a renaming going on before it became official policy. But even if they were fakes the lenses are still quite good performer and we are not in a position to see the precise image performance improvement of a “genuine” M7 over a “fake” M7.

I bought a few of these lenses before the “M7” became regarded as something “more special”. In those days the “M7” was sellng at much the same price as others - there was no price premium charged. The only thing that the fake “M7” label would guarantee a vedor was that “his” M7 might be a trifle easier to sell in the vast number of H-44 lenses on offer.

As a result I have a few early “M7 fakes” that may of may not be fakes and in reality might just be a hand-picking of higher resolution lenses before the production of them became a more official policy.

I am reconciled to mine being fakes in the absence of being able to test the resolution myself. But they still perform veyr well - and I am a bit perplexed at the seeming need to go to the trouble of re-labelling these lenses when they did not sell for any premium in price. A sort of need perhaps for a Russian form of lens grafitti? :) Simply done “because they can”?

I did buy a later “suite” of M5, M6, M7 that came in a single lot from a Russian vendor in perfect condition that I believe are all genuine.
 

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