To upgrade or not? E-PL7 to E-M5 II

Doom Scythe · Nov 28, 2018

Hi all,

This is my maiden post here, but have been a casual lurker for a couple of years since I owned my Olympus PEN E-PL7 more than 3 years ago.

A bit of background. My main motivation when I bought my E-PL7 was to 2-fold: To capture my travels and my entire dating journey right as when both were starting to take off at the same time. I chose Olympus E-PL7 at that time due to the suggestion of my dad, who is a photography enthusiasts. I had almost zero knowledge of photography at that time, and just wanted a light-weight camera where I will carry around everywhere I go. My dad went through the whole shebang of G.A.S and finally realise that a big camera (he had the Nikon D7100) is not going to work for most non-hardcore enthusiasts and the interest in photography will likely fizzle out with the weight being the biggest deterrent. So, I took note of his experience and got myself a E-PL7.

Fast forward 3 years, I have within the past year developed a greater interest in photography and acquired quite a few set of lenses, mostly used lenses:

1. Olympus 9-18mm f4-5.6

2. Olympus 17mm f1.8

3. Panasonic 25mm f1.7

4. Olympus 45mm f1.8

5. Olympus 40-150mm f4-5.6

My first 2 years of pictures were purely taken with the kit lens, 14-42mm EZ. It was only in the past year that I acquired the aforementioned lenses. I now consider myself an amateur photographer that knows the basics of focal length, composition rules, field of view, equivalence, etc whom still has a lot more to learn. However, my goal is still largely the same as 3 years ago when I bought my camera initially, which is to capture my travels (I actually fly relatively often, used to be every week but nowadays once a month) and my time with my wife. I am beginning to venture into the territory of dedicated photoshoot outdoor sessons (street photography / landscape) but those are still rare occasions.

I used to travel with only the Olympus E-PL7, but since I started acquiring lenses, I have also enlarged my sling bag to accommodate those lenses. With those lenses, my sling bag now weights about 1.8kg (yes I weigh it) and it seems to me that I am approaching the uncomfortable threshold with that weight. However with a more comfortable sling bag, who knows, may be I might be able push that threshold to lug around 2.5kg.

I also noticed that I have more affinity to shorter focal length with my most used lens being the 9-18mm and 17mm (whenever I require the extra 2 stops). I use the 25mm fairly often as well. The other 2 (45mm and 40-150mm) are less used.

Now, with all of those said, I stumbled upon an offer for E-M5 Mark II. It is the time of the year again, where companies clear old stocks in anticipation of new models next year by giving good discounts and bundled gifts. The E-M5 II is currently going for circa $640. I plan to sell off the bundled gift and my E-PL7, to lower my upgrade cost to circa $250.

My question are thus, is it worth the upgrade to go from E-PL7 to E-M5 II, considering that:

1. Both are using TruePic VII sensor

2. What I think I will gain from having E-M5:

Improved 5-axis stabilisation, which translates to a rough gain of 1.5 stops in real life usage from what I read
6 function buttons on E-M5 as opposed to 2 function buttons on E-PL7, which could be useful for High-Res Mode, HDR, focus peaking. (may be other functions?)
Different custom modes to switch back and forth the presets of function buttons.
Weather sealing
Anything else major I miss?

3. What I think I will lose with E-M5:

Lightness. 140g increase in weight from 357g to 496g, which could be significant
Small form factor. With additional 1cm in length and 2cm in height, it does chalk up a bit.
Anything else major I miss?

I am interested in hearing from those who has used both cameras for extended periods of time to give perspective into long term usage, and any concerns from E-M5 that I may not have been able to see from my research of reviews online. This is especially on the increase in size and weight, which there is no way to know without using it over a period of time. Unfortunately, in my country, camera rentals are not easy to come by at a reasonable price, so that is not an option.

Also, any thoughts on whether it is worth it to do the upgrade / switch?

mchnz · Nov 29, 2018

Doom Scythe said:
...

Doom Scythe said:
Yeah, with regards to the lenses, I am also considering as they are very pricey. I have yet to come across a good discount on used lenses. The 12-40mm f2.8 still costs at least $450 used, and 7-14mm f2.8 is even more expensive. I guess the weather sealing is just some extra option to go that route if I want to in the future.

I been looking at a second hand 12-40. I can't make my mind up, I much prefer the smaller size of the primes, the 12-40 is getting a bit too big. I do have the weather sealed 12-50, and unless I pixel peep I'm not sure I see differences in quality that I care about. Plus the 12-50 is internal zooming and cheap enough to take risks with: soaked under a waterfall, dropped on a volcano, dropped on a mountain, etc.

In respect to the E-M5 II. With the longer lenses, such as the 12-50, 40-150 plastic, 40-150 pro, I hold the camera by the lens and don't find a grip to be necessary. But with the tiny 17mm there is nothing to use other than the cameras grip, and that can feel a bit cramped after a while - but I think I inclined to forego the grip because I just like the look of the 17+E-M5 II as it is.

I find the e-shutter and custom modes to be a huge plus. Because each position on the dial can be assigned a custom mode (including A, S), the E-M5 II has more custom modes than the E-M1 II.

If money is not particularly tight, and some of the features others have talked about have sufficient value for you, the fact that the E-M5 II's getting a bit long in the tooth may not matter. After getting the E-M1 II, I still would not part with the E-M5 II. I won't be parting with it unless Olympus introduce a weatherseal, similarly sized and styled successor (without a grip).

I'm probably biased because I still have an OM-2 film camera, for me it's a sentimental preference...

--

digitaltrails

Explore digitaltrails’s 805 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Doom Scythe · Nov 29, 2018

Michael Meissner said:
Doom Scythe said:

Lol, yeah. I did not mention EVF not due to an oversight, but more of because I do not understand the fuss about having one (or not). This is probably the 'noob' in my photography. I grew up without a passion for photography, hence I did not experience the 'glory days' of DSLR. When I got my first proper camera, the E-PL 7, it uses only an LCD for display. After using it for 2 years, I gave my dad's D710 a try, and I must say I did not enjoy the Optical View Finder one bit.

The LCD gave me a bigger viewing area, and showed me what the actual picture will look like by correcting for exposure and WB. To use the view finder, I needed to bring the camera within 1cm of my face, and also made taking pictures from an awkward angle difficult (such as when shooting from the ground level). The E-PL7 had a tilting and flippy screen which I thought was superior when compared to a view finder.

Click to expand...

Well in general, having a viewfinder means that on bright days you can bring the camera up to your eye and block out the rest of the light, so that you can see the image better for framing.

In addition, when you have the camera braced against you, it stabilizes it more. If you hold out the camera to use the rear display, you tend to have more hand shake. Sure the camera has sensor shift stabilization, but it is better not to tempt fate and do some stabilization your self.

I also find when I shoot using the rear display instead of viewfinder, that I more likely don't have the camera level, and I have to rotate and crop in post processing to get straight and level horizons. In particular, if you mash down the shutter button, it can tilt the camera between the time you framed the shot and when the shot was taken.

However note, there are different types of electronic viewfinder. The E-m5 mark II's EVF uses a TFT LCD viewfinder, while the E-m10 mark II/III uses OLED. If you wear polarized sunglasses, you will not be able see all or parts of the EVF when shooting in landscape (horizontal) orientation on a camera using the TFT LCD display, while with an OLED display you can see it fine in either orientation. Due to migraines, I tend to need to wear polarized prescription sunglasses whenever I'm outdoors, so for me, the LCD TFT vs. OLED viewfinder is a hot button.

There is a third type of viewfinder (field sequential) that Panasonic uses in its smaller bodies, but if you are sticking with Olympus, that isn't an issue.

There are downsides to OLED viewfinders as well. The colors displayed tend to be a little more saturated than what the camera records, so when you look at your pictures on the computer, they will be a little flat compared to what you saw when you took the picture. Another migraine suffer found that the refresh rate in the E-m10 mark II was slow enough that it triggered migraines for him/her, and the E-m5 mark II was better.

If you shoot stage performances in dark settings, the viewfinder tends to leak less light to the people sitting next to you compared to the normal rear display (or cellphone).

Got it, thanks! I guess for me the TFT vs OLED will not matter too much as I don't wear polarized glasses.

Michael Meissner said:
Michael Meissner said:

Of course, I acknowledge the drawbacks of LCD, where it drains the battery faster and makes taking pictures in bright sunlight a little challenging. But I get around the battery drain by having a spare battery, and have not encounter days where I ran out of juice for both batteries simultaneously. So, am I missing anything here?

Click to expand...

In the context of mirrorless cameras and not DSLRs, there is no battery improvement if you use the EVF, since the EVF is a display just like the rear display and needs to be powered. In fact, on some of the cameras, the EVF draws more power than the rear display.

I see, interesting fact.

Michael Meissner said:
Michael Meissner said:

With regard to the Hi-Res mode, yes you're right! I missed that out, and in my original post (but looks like I cannot edit it to include this anymore). I *think* it will be a feature that I will use relatively often.

Click to expand...

I dunno. It depends on whether you take pictures of static subjects when the camera is on a tripod, and you intend to print large pictures. For me, since the web is the primary way I share pictures, there is no advantage to shooting in Hi-res. If I was a landscape photographer printing 16x20 or if I did product shots, I could see the use of the Hi-Res mode. Sure there are people that need/want it, but I am not in that segment.

I like to have the option of having a High Res for selected landscapes scenes. 40MP does indeed sound like a nice boost in resolution.

Michael Meissner said:
Michael Meissner said:

Aaand, you're also right on the grip. I think it will be excessively heavy for me, at least in the foreseeable future.

Click to expand...

Note, the E-m5 mark II doesn't have that much of a grip if you don't use the HLD-8 battery grip. Now if you go to the E-m1 mark I/II (or Panasonic G85/GH5/G9/etc.) then the grip is more pronounced.

I find in general, a grip helps when you have the camera in your right hand for long periods of time, particularly when you have a heavy lens attached. I have grips for my 3 'big' cameras (E-m5 mark I, E-m1 mark I, G85), but I typically don't use them for normal shooting. When I'm shooting quite a bit, the grip is helpful because I can put a second battery in the grip. In addition, if the camera is on a tripod, it is easier to change the battery in the grip without taking the camera off the tripod.

When I'm recording video of performers at a small renaissance faire, the battery grip is pretty much a necessity as I don't want to run out of power in the middle of the show. I set up all cameras so that they use the battery from the grip first, and when the camera indicates it is drawing power from the battery in the camera body, I can switch batteries in the grip.

Noted on your comments. I think grip makes a lot of difference for those who go out for many hours on dedicated shooting trip, but likely less important for me given my shooting style and preference. Thanks for the info.

Doom Scythe · Nov 29, 2018

Cheshire-Chris said:
The EVF is considerably higher resolution than the LCD screen, and although it's smaller, it fills more of your "field of view" when you actually look through it than the LCD does. This makes it much better for composing the scene and achieving critical focus.

Cheers,

Chris

Will take note of this, thanks.

Doom Scythe · Nov 29, 2018

jwilliams said:
in upgrading to a camera with identical IQ that is overpriced? You lenses aren't overly large so all will handle OK on the EPL7. If you don't have the viewfinder to attach to the EPL7 they are cheap.

I have the EPL7 and the EM5 I and only use the EM5 when I need to mount a larger lens.

My number one suggestion is wait to upgrade until Oly or Panny makes a 20MP camera that you like (could take forever though given how things are in m43) if they don't have one already. The price Oly wants for a outdated camera like the EM5 II is just rediculous. I would buy an EM10 III (or II) over the EM5 II and save some money if you must upgrade right now. Also look at the GX9 for about the same money as an EM5 II. I simply cannot recommend anyone buy an EM5 II. Just too much money for an outdated camera.

I appreciate the dissenting view here. Good point on me not having any heavy lenses currently. Also, I don't see the need for the EVF currently, but based on the few comments above, it may be worth a try.

For GX9, I will take more time to do research, but some preliminary glance reveals that all of them costs at least $715 with local set costing about $785 (with a 16GB memory card gift). I would be hard pressed to find a local set below $700. The main reason I even thought about upgrading is due to the offer currently given by Olympus. Here's my cost analysis, quoted from my response above:

jwilliams said:
I have given some thought on the fact that a new model (E-M1X) will likely be launched in 2 months' time and there may be another round sale then. Here are my thoughts, do chip in if you have any other ideas:

E-M5 now costs $640, and it comes with 45mm f1.8 + camera bag

I dispose off 45mm f1.8 for circa $215. Street price for this is around $255-$275 for new.

Net cost would be circa $425, which I think is a very decent deal for E-M5 II.

I am really not sure if when they further slash the sale price of E-M5 to say $550 or even $500, they will likely not give out the free 45mm f1.8 anymore, which means higher net price for me.

Decisions, decisions...

As for the E-M10 II, I did give it a lot of thought, as the price is even cheaper than this! It is currently going for around $405 with the same free gift of 45mm f1.8. Disposing off that would mean a net cost of $190 (which is a lot compared to $425 for E-M5 II). However, a few considerations are actually stopping me to go with E-M10 II.

No flippy screen which allow me to take selfie. This is one of the most major consideration for me in a new camera as I think the selfie screen for E-PL7 is godsent. I know this may sound 'nooby' to many, but when I travel with my wife, there are many instances where the only chance for us to take a picture is with a selfie (or should I say wefie).

High-Res mode which was one of the plus point for E-M5. It is not really a deal breaker, but a significant plus to E-M5 as well.

Extra function buttons and 2X2 switch on E-M5. Based on the comments by IndieAZ above, the extra control buttons are very useful. In E-M10 there are 4 customisable buttons (3 dedicated Fn buttons + Rec), which is good but E-M5 have 6 (4 dedicated Fn + Rec + preview). The main extra of E-M5 would be the 2X2 switch which would be very useful, I think.

Other thoughts?

Also, am also concerned about performance issues between Olympus lens and Panasonic camera since most of my lens are Olympus.

Nevertheless, appreciate your thoughts. Would be even better if you can see through any flaws in my reasoning above, or any points I did not consider.

Doom Scythe · Nov 29, 2018

TomFid said:
Doom Scythe said:

TomFid said:

The EM5ii is a great camera, and prices are pretty good right now. It's definitely a huge upgrade from an EPL.

However ... it's also at the end of its lifecycle, and new models are rumored for early in the new year. I'd expect them to take a hit in value soonish (though of course that won't affect your use).

Also, because it's getting up there in age a bit, competition from the other side of the fence (G85, GX85, GX9) is pretty stiff, if you don't need specific features like HiRes, and especially if you do care about AF and 4k. I'd also look at the EM10ii, which is really cheap.

Click to expand...

I have given some thought on the fact that a new model (E-M1X) will likely be launched in 2 months' time and there may be another round sale then. Here are my thoughts, do chip in if you have any other ideas:

E-M5 now costs $640, and it comes with 45mm f1.8 + camera bag

I dispose off 45mm f1.8 for circa $215. Street price for this is around $255-$275 for new.

Net cost would be circa $425, which I think is a very decent deal for E-M5 II.

I am really not sure if when they further slash the sale price of E-M5 to say $550 or even $500, they will likely not give out the free 45mm f1.8 anymore, which means higher net price for me.

Click to expand...

I think the EM1x isn't relevant to this segment, but the rumors mention 2 lower end bodies, presumably including an EM5 III. I might be inclined to see what that looks like, but it won't be cheap up front. If the $640 includes the 45, then it's an incredibly cheap price - hard to pass up.

I see.... I am also tempted by the 2 lower end bodies, but realistically, I don't think it will be any cheaper than the current E-PL9, with street price going for $575, which includes a free battery and also an extra 45mm f1.8 for this promotional period. Like mentioned, once the promotion period ends, I am doubtful if I can get the 45mm f1.8 free gift along with my purchase.

TomFid said:
TomFid said:

Decisions, decisions...

As for the E-M10 II, I did give it a lot of thought, as the price is even cheaper than this! It is currently going for around $405 with the same free gift of 45mm f1.8. Disposing off that would mean a net cost of $190 (which is a lot compared to $425 for E-M5 II). However, a few considerations are actually stopping me to go with E-M10 II.

No flippy screen which allow me to take selfie. This is one of the most major consideration for me in a new camera as I think the selfie screen for E-PL7 is godsent. I know this may sound 'nooby' to many, but when I travel with my wife, there are many instances where the only chance for us to take a picture is with a selfie (or should I say wefie).

High-Res mode which was one of the plus point for E-M5. It is not really a deal breaker, but a significant plus to E-M5 as well.

Extra function buttons and 2X2 switch on E-M5. Based on the comments by IndieAZ above, the extra control buttons are very useful. In E-M10 there are 4 customisable buttons (3 dedicated Fn buttons + Rec), which is good but E-M5 have 6 (4 dedicated Fn + Rec + preview). The main extra of E-M5 would be the 2X2 switch which would be very useful, I think.

Other thoughts?

And yes, you're absolutely right about AF and 4k. I don't need them.

Click to expand...

I think you've made a pretty good case for the EM5ii. I've often wondered if I'd do just as well with an EM10ii, but it's the controls and screen that stopped me from switching.

I think I'd now agree - do not hesitate.

Thanks mate, for your time.

Doom Scythe · Nov 29, 2018

BruceRH said:
Doom Scythe said:

Rich K said:

The above replies cover just about everything. I would add that the difference in size and weight, while noticeabe, is not all that significant. I have both the EP5 and the EM5.2 and mostly use the bigger body for my fast zooms where the handling is a bit better. For small primes like you carry no big deal and the EM5.2 is just a much better body, especially at the price you mentioned.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Good to know that size difference is not significant. That has been my major consideration: size and weight. I subscribe to the view that the camera is utilised, the more successful the purchase it. No point having a huge FF DSLR and I only take it out once a year (many of my friend's DSLRs and lenses now serve as decoration in their cabinet). At present, I am enjoying the E-PL7 a lot, and do not hesitate to take it out for most part.

Click to expand...

Have you been able to hold an EM5 MKii? It really is small and light IMO. Put your 14-42EZ lens on it and it will easily fit in a coat pocket. Even though the 5 has been around for a while now, it still takes fantastic images and is a very capable body. The stabilization alone is worth it. There are other grips out there if you ever want one for larger lenses. I purchased an excellent one from eBay which I preferred over the Olympus grip.

I use wrist straps for all of my bodies, including the EM1 MKii and the Sony A7Rii. A wrist strap for the EM5 MKii is works perfectly for me. It seems you have a well thought out plan for mitigating the cost, it is well worth the upgrade.

I have held the E-M5 II on my hands in the showroom, but only for 10 mins or so. It is hard to make a conclusion or forecast long term problems / benefits from such a short interaction. Your comments, along with IndieAZ's, on the 14-42mm EZ does make a lot of sense. It's not about the camera alone, but also the lens. An oft forgotten fact.

By the way, I noticed that you have sold off your E-M5 II in your gear list. Mind sharing the reason?

Doom Scythe · Nov 29, 2018

Crinos said:
Hi there.

I did the EXACT SAME switch one year and a half ago.

I had been shooting with the E-PL7 for 9 months before switching and even though I was happy with the IQ, I changed body for these reasons

Articulating screen: I have been used to tilting screens, but shooting (lanscapes) on portrait orientation wasn't easy. Now it's way more convenient, even the friends follwing my work have noticed that I use this orientation way more often

Awesome to know someone who did the same. I don't quite understand you here. How does having an articulating screen help in this case?

Crinos said:
EVF: I never had a viewfinder on my previous cameras. Now the only time I use the screen to shoot is when the camera is on the tripod

Customisation: I shoot mainly landscapes and longexposures (with ND filters). So relying on the autofocus is not often possible. So I use Bracketing, Magnification and focus peaking, and I do not have to dig into the menusto de/activate them, they are all affected to a dedicated button
Oh and more importantly, I have a dial for speed and aperture, or speed/aperture and exposure compensation

Cool, good to know that customisation does make a difference.

Crinos said:
Handling: I bought a couple months after both grips, and the smaller one is almost all the time glued to my camera. When I shoot portraits/wedding it's convenient to have all the commands on the additional grip, plus and extra battery.

As for the rest, faster shutter speed, weather sealing, high resolution mode ... and the look, in silver, i had several comments on how nice my camera look (not really important but still cool)

So : SWITCH !!!

Lol, those comments are sure icing on the cake.

Doom Scythe · Nov 30, 2018

mchnz said:
Doom Scythe said:

...

Yeah, with regards to the lenses, I am also considering as they are very pricey. I have yet to come across a good discount on used lenses. The 12-40mm f2.8 still costs at least $450 used, and 7-14mm f2.8 is even more expensive. I guess the weather sealing is just some extra option to go that route if I want to in the future.

Click to expand...

I been looking at a second hand 12-40. I can't make my mind up, I much prefer the smaller size of the primes, the 12-40 is getting a bit too big. I do have the weather sealed 12-50, and unless I pixel peep I'm not sure I see differences in quality that I care about. Plus the 12-50 is internal zooming and cheap enough to take risks with: soaked under a waterfall, dropped on a volcano, dropped on a mountain, etc.

I am also in the opinion that 12-40m is too big and more importantly heavy. Panasonic's 12-35mm weights almost 100g lighter. I share your apprehension on the 12-40.

mchnz said:
In respect to the E-M5 II. With the longer lenses, such as the 12-50, 40-150 plastic, 40-150 pro, I hold the camera by the lens and don't find a grip to be necessary. But with the tiny 17mm there is nothing to use other than the cameras grip, and that can feel a bit cramped after a while - but I think I inclined to forego the grip because I just like the look of the 17+E-M5 II as it is.

I find the e-shutter and custom modes to be a huge plus. Because each position on the dial can be assigned a custom mode (including A, S), the E-M5 II has more custom modes than the E-M1 II.

Interesting, didn't know this.

Doom Scythe · Nov 30, 2018

A small side-track question. On the E-M5 II, anyone happen to know if the Fn button can be set to custom timer, say 7s timer?

jwilliams · Nov 30, 2018

Doom Scythe said:
jwilliams said:

in upgrading to a camera with identical IQ that is overpriced? You lenses aren't overly large so all will handle OK on the EPL7. If you don't have the viewfinder to attach to the EPL7 they are cheap.

I have the EPL7 and the EM5 I and only use the EM5 when I need to mount a larger lens.

My number one suggestion is wait to upgrade until Oly or Panny makes a 20MP camera that you like (could take forever though given how things are in m43) if they don't have one already. The price Oly wants for a outdated camera like the EM5 II is just rediculous. I would buy an EM10 III (or II) over the EM5 II and save some money if you must upgrade right now. Also look at the GX9 for about the same money as an EM5 II. I simply cannot recommend anyone buy an EM5 II. Just too much money for an outdated camera.

Click to expand...

I appreciate the dissenting view here. Good point on me not having any heavy lenses currently. Also, I don't see the need for the EVF currently, but based on the few comments above, it may be worth a try.

The EVF is definitely nice to have on a sunny day. It is a small expense compared to an EM5II.

Doom Scythe said:
For GX9, I will take more time to do research, but some preliminary glance reveals that all of them costs at least $715 with local set costing about $785 (with a 16GB memory card gift). I would be hard pressed to find a local set below $700. The main reason I even thought about upgrading is due to the offer currently given by Olympus. Here's my cost analysis, quoted from my response above:

I found one used with the 12-60 for $600. You might search Fred Miranda Buy and Sell forum.

Doom Scythe said:
Doom Scythe said:

I have given some thought on the fact that a new model (E-M1X) will likely be launched in 2 months' time and there may be another round sale then. Here are my thoughts, do chip in if you have any other ideas:

E-M5 now costs $640, and it comes with 45mm f1.8 + camera bag

I dispose off 45mm f1.8 for circa $215. Street price for this is around $255-$275 for new.

Net cost would be circa $425, which I think is a very decent deal for E-M5 II.

I am really not sure if when they further slash the sale price of E-M5 to say $550 or even $500, they will likely not give out the free 45mm f1.8 anymore, which means higher net price for me.

Decisions, decisions...

As for the E-M10 II, I did give it a lot of thought, as the price is even cheaper than this! It is currently going for around $405 with the same free gift of 45mm f1.8. Disposing off that would mean a net cost of $190 (which is a lot compared to $425 for E-M5 II). However, a few considerations are actually stopping me to go with E-M10 II.

No flippy screen which allow me to take selfie. This is one of the most major consideration for me in a new camera as I think the selfie screen for E-PL7 is godsent. I know this may sound 'nooby' to many, but when I travel with my wife, there are many instances where the only chance for us to take a picture is with a selfie (or should I say wefie).

High-Res mode which was one of the plus point for E-M5. It is not really a deal breaker, but a significant plus to E-M5 as well.

Extra function buttons and 2X2 switch on E-M5. Based on the comments by IndieAZ above, the extra control buttons are very useful. In E-M10 there are 4 customisable buttons (3 dedicated Fn buttons + Rec), which is good but E-M5 have 6 (4 dedicated Fn + Rec + preview). The main extra of E-M5 would be the 2X2 switch which would be very useful, I think.

Other thoughts?

Click to expand...

Also, am also concerned about performance issues between Olympus lens and Panasonic camera since most of my lens are Olympus.

Nevertheless, appreciate your thoughts. Would be even better if you can see through any flaws in my reasoning above, or any points I did not consider.

Nothing to worry about really. I interchange all thee time. Only thing it really affects is the ability to use the dual IS of each system which is no big deal.

If you are not someone who is constantly buying and selling camera gear, it pays to take your time and make sure that your next camera is actually a significant upgrade from the one you already own,

--
Jonathan

Doom Scythe · Nov 30, 2018

jwilliams said:
jwilliams said:

For GX9, I will take more time to do research, but some preliminary glance reveals that all of them costs at least $715 with local set costing about $785 (with a 16GB memory card gift). I would be hard pressed to find a local set below $700. The main reason I even thought about upgrading is due to the offer currently given by Olympus. Here's my cost analysis, quoted from my response above:

Click to expand...

I found one used with the 12-60 for $600. You might search Fred ?Miranda Buy and Sell forum.

Thanks, but am not located in the US actually. In Asia. I just converted all to USD as to make it easier since most are accustomed to it.

jwilliams · Nov 30, 2018

Doom Scythe said:
jwilliams said:

Doom Scythe said:

For GX9, I will take more time to do research, but some preliminary glance reveals that all of them costs at least $715 with local set costing about $785 (with a 16GB memory card gift). I would be hard pressed to find a local set below $700. The main reason I even thought about upgrading is due to the offer currently given by Olympus. Here's my cost analysis, quoted from my response above:

Click to expand...

I found one used with the 12-60 for $600. You might search Fred ?Miranda Buy and Sell forum.

Click to expand...

Thanks, but am not located in the US actually. In Asia. I just converted all to USD as to make it easier since most are accustomed to it.

From what I read you can generally get better prices on gear in Asia than the US. Maybe there is an ebay site for your country.

BruceRH · Nov 30, 2018

Doom Scythe said:
BruceRH said:

Doom Scythe said:

Rich K said:

The above replies cover just about everything. I would add that the difference in size and weight, while noticeabe, is not all that significant. I have both the EP5 and the EM5.2 and mostly use the bigger body for my fast zooms where the handling is a bit better. For small primes like you carry no big deal and the EM5.2 is just a much better body, especially at the price you mentioned.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Good to know that size difference is not significant. That has been my major consideration: size and weight. I subscribe to the view that the camera is utilised, the more successful the purchase it. No point having a huge FF DSLR and I only take it out once a year (many of my friend's DSLRs and lenses now serve as decoration in their cabinet). At present, I am enjoying the E-PL7 a lot, and do not hesitate to take it out for most part.

Click to expand...

Have you been able to hold an EM5 MKii? It really is small and light IMO. Put your 14-42EZ lens on it and it will easily fit in a coat pocket. Even though the 5 has been around for a while now, it still takes fantastic images and is a very capable body. The stabilization alone is worth it. There are other grips out there if you ever want one for larger lenses. I purchased an excellent one from eBay which I preferred over the Olympus grip.

I use wrist straps for all of my bodies, including the EM1 MKii and the Sony A7Rii. A wrist strap for the EM5 MKii is works perfectly for me. It seems you have a well thought out plan for mitigating the cost, it is well worth the upgrade.

Click to expand...

I have held the E-M5 II on my hands in the showroom, but only for 10 mins or so. It is hard to make a conclusion or forecast long term problems / benefits from such a short interaction. Your comments, along with IndieAZ's, on the 14-42mm EZ does make a lot of sense. It's not about the camera alone, but also the lens. An oft forgotten fact.

By the way, I noticed that you have sold off your E-M5 II in your gear list. Mind sharing the reason?

Well, I wasn’t using it as much once I got my Pen-F and EM1 MKii but I have some seller’s remorse! Honestly, the EM5 MKii body style is my absolute favorite. When I sold mine, I was gambling that a version iii was going to arrive soon, well it hasn’t :-( This has reduced me to looking at used ones and contemplating rebuying one. The sensor in the Pen and EM1.2 is slightly better, I found myself doing less PP with the two newer bodies which is the real reason the 5 sat more and more. Now, if I had not seen the newer sensor output, I would have been fine, but... So anyway, if and when Olympus announces an EM5 MKiii, I will be very interested.

Yes, lenses are a huge factor. Buy good glass, but lenses such as the 14-42EZ have their place and the EZ in particular is no slouch IMO, it makes a great compact setup.

On a side note, I generally buy used or refurbished (both the Pen-F and EM1 MKii where picked up at bargain prices). On the other hand, I bought the EM5 MKii brand new and would buy the iii new as well if that tells you something.

MShot · Nov 30, 2018

I have the PL-7, EM-5 MKI, and EM-1 MKI.

The most useful benefits of the EM-1 for me are the grip - which does not seem important to you, the HDR button, and twin top plate dials I think you will appreciate. I'd like to have High-Res mode, but wouldn't use it as much as you do I think because I don't do a lot of landscape or travel photography. I find in-camera Focus Stacking very useful. It doesn't work will all the lenses. You have to research that if you want to use it.

I don't like going through the software menus to toggle HDR on and off, and I like to be able to adjust EV and shutter speed or aperture and ISO with dials so switchable function top dials are very useful for me.

I sometimes think I need to trade in the PL-7 on an EM-1 MKII, even though it's more expensive than the EM-5 MKII, for the grip - I would have to buy for the EM-5 MKII which cuts the delta cost between them. I feel like I might as well go to better AF, PDAF, Pro Capture, and 20MP with the next body though I'm satisfied with 16MP and CDAF is good enough for me.

I hesitate to give up the PL-& though, because I really like the handling, the look and feel of it with the half leather case. It's so comfortable and light. I think I'll keep it as my light weight kit for use with the 14-42 EZ I just bought, the 14-150, the 17 f/2.8 & 1.8, and the 9mm Fisheye. It works really well as a travel kit with compact, light weight lenses, not with big heavy ones. Even the 12-40PRO seems to be too big and heavy for the PL-7 body.

For travel, I live with the inconvenience of one top dial and HDR software toggle though it sometimes annoys me. It might be better to trade for the EM-5 MKII, but when I remove grip is isn't the same. There is something I like about the PL-7 I find hard to describe because its mostly emotional. I just like it and that's important to me.

I suggest you play around with an EM-5 MKII before making the trade. Do you have a vendor who will sell you one with a 14 day trail/return if you don't like it?

You might also consider Panasonic rangefinder style bodies. I'm partial to OLY, but had good luck with Panasonic as well and like their products. I think they do a better job designing and building this body style and you can use the lenses you have. They offer built-in EVF, some articulating. More dials. Maybe this is a better solution than the EM-5 MKII for your needs.

The GX85 kit is very appealing as a two lens kit right now. Maybe you would like it better than an EM-5 MKII. You can sell the new Panny lenses - as new, for more than you can your used OLY lenses or keep the Panny lenses that overlap. Up to you.

If it were me for compact, light weight lenses you use, small grip or no grip, I'd look at Panasonic rangefinder cameras too. I think you will find they have most of what you are looking for in a camera that looks and feels most like your PL-7.

That's what I would do.

Crinos · Dec 3, 2018

Doom Scythe said:
Crinos said:

Hi there.

I did the EXACT SAME switch one year and a half ago.

I had been shooting with the E-PL7 for 9 months before switching and even though I was happy with the IQ, I changed body for these reasons

Articulating screen: I have been used to tilting screens, but shooting (lanscapes) on portrait orientation wasn't easy. Now it's way more convenient, even the friends follwing my work have noticed that I use this orientation way more often

Click to expand...

Awesome to know someone who did the same. I don't quite understand you here. How does having an articulating screen help in this case?

I shoot primarily landscapes. And wether on tripod or not, i like to shoot on protrait orientation. With the flipping screen, you have you check on the back/side of the camera. It's not convenient, especially when you're shootinh low on the ground.

With the articulating screen, even with the camera vertical, you can look at you screen more easily ... you can even take selfies without the tripod blocking the screen .. look at the photos below

Doom Scythe · Dec 13, 2018

BruceRH said:
Doom Scythe said:

BruceRH said:

Doom Scythe said:

Rich K said:

The above replies cover just about everything. I would add that the difference in size and weight, while noticeabe, is not all that significant. I have both the EP5 and the EM5.2 and mostly use the bigger body for my fast zooms where the handling is a bit better. For small primes like you carry no big deal and the EM5.2 is just a much better body, especially at the price you mentioned.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Good to know that size difference is not significant. That has been my major consideration: size and weight. I subscribe to the view that the camera is utilised, the more successful the purchase it. No point having a huge FF DSLR and I only take it out once a year (many of my friend's DSLRs and lenses now serve as decoration in their cabinet). At present, I am enjoying the E-PL7 a lot, and do not hesitate to take it out for most part.

Click to expand...

Have you been able to hold an EM5 MKii? It really is small and light IMO. Put your 14-42EZ lens on it and it will easily fit in a coat pocket. Even though the 5 has been around for a while now, it still takes fantastic images and is a very capable body. The stabilization alone is worth it. There are other grips out there if you ever want one for larger lenses. I purchased an excellent one from eBay which I preferred over the Olympus grip.

I use wrist straps for all of my bodies, including the EM1 MKii and the Sony A7Rii. A wrist strap for the EM5 MKii is works perfectly for me. It seems you have a well thought out plan for mitigating the cost, it is well worth the upgrade.

Click to expand...

I have held the E-M5 II on my hands in the showroom, but only for 10 mins or so. It is hard to make a conclusion or forecast long term problems / benefits from such a short interaction. Your comments, along with IndieAZ's, on the 14-42mm EZ does make a lot of sense. It's not about the camera alone, but also the lens. An oft forgotten fact.

By the way, I noticed that you have sold off your E-M5 II in your gear list. Mind sharing the reason?

Click to expand...

Well, I wasn’t using it as much once I got my Pen-F and EM1 MKii but I have some seller’s remorse! Honestly, the EM5 MKii body style is my absolute favorite. When I sold mine, I was gambling that a version iii was going to arrive soon, well it hasn’t :-( This has reduced me to looking at used ones and contemplating rebuying one. The sensor in the Pen and EM1.2 is slightly better, I found myself doing less PP with the two newer bodies which is the real reason the 5 sat more and more. Now, if I had not seen the newer sensor output, I would have been fine, but... So anyway, if and when Olympus announces an EM5 MKiii, I will be very interested.

Yes, lenses are a huge factor. Buy good glass, but lenses such as the 14-42EZ have their place and the EZ in particular is no slouch IMO, it makes a great compact setup.

On a side note, I generally buy used or refurbished (both the Pen-F and EM1 MKii where picked up at bargain prices). On the other hand, I bought the EM5 MKii brand new and would buy the iii new as well if that tells you something.

I see... Thanks for elaborating.

Doom Scythe · Dec 13, 2018

MShot said:
I have the PL-7, EM-5 MKI, and EM-1 MKI.

The most useful benefits of the EM-1 for me are the grip - which does not seem important to you, the HDR button, and twin top plate dials I think you will appreciate. I'd like to have High-Res mode, but wouldn't use it as much as you do I think because I don't do a lot of landscape or travel photography. I find in-camera Focus Stacking very useful. It doesn't work will all the lenses. You have to research that if you want to use it.

I don't like going through the software menus to toggle HDR on and off, and I like to be able to adjust EV and shutter speed or aperture and ISO with dials so switchable function top dials are very useful for me.

I sometimes think I need to trade in the PL-7 on an EM-1 MKII, even though it's more expensive than the EM-5 MKII, for the grip - I would have to buy for the EM-5 MKII which cuts the delta cost between them. I feel like I might as well go to better AF, PDAF, Pro Capture, and 20MP with the next body though I'm satisfied with 16MP and CDAF is good enough for me.

I hesitate to give up the PL-& though, because I really like the handling, the look and feel of it with the half leather case. It's so comfortable and light. I think I'll keep it as my light weight kit for use with the 14-42 EZ I just bought, the 14-150, the 17 f/2.8 & 1.8, and the 9mm Fisheye. It works really well as a travel kit with compact, light weight lenses, not with big heavy ones. Even the 12-40PRO seems to be too big and heavy for the PL-7 body.

For travel, I live with the inconvenience of one top dial and HDR software toggle though it sometimes annoys me. It might be better to trade for the EM-5 MKII, but when I remove grip is isn't the same. There is something I like about the PL-7 I find hard to describe because its mostly emotional. I just like it and that's important to me.

I suggest you play around with an EM-5 MKII before making the trade. Do you have a vendor who will sell you one with a 14 day trail/return if you don't like it?

You might also consider Panasonic rangefinder style bodies. I'm partial to OLY, but had good luck with Panasonic as well and like their products. I think they do a better job designing and building this body style and you can use the lenses you have. They offer built-in EVF, some articulating. More dials. Maybe this is a better solution than the EM-5 MKII for your needs.

The GX85 kit is very appealing as a two lens kit right now. Maybe you would like it better than an EM-5 MKII. You can sell the new Panny lenses - as new, for more than you can your used OLY lenses or keep the Panny lenses that overlap. Up to you.

If it were me for compact, light weight lenses you use, small grip or no grip, I'd look at Panasonic rangefinder cameras too. I think you will find they have most of what you are looking for in a camera that looks and feels most like your PL-7.

That's what I would do.

In my country, consumer rights have not evolved till it allows a 14 day trial/return, unfortunately. The GX85 costs more than the E-M5 Mk2 (almost $250 more if we factor in the resale value of the free Oly 45mm f1.8 that comes with it), and I will be getting less features I believe. Also, it seems that (from what I read here), the EM5 Mk2 has better stabilisation.

My dad actually uses a E-PL7 as well, so I am fine if I still need a E-PL7 after selling mine off. That's one of the reason I am not reluctant to sell mine off, as I can loan it from him.

Thanks for your feedback though, your comment on GX85 did made me read up the many discussions here on DPReview.

Doom Scythe · Dec 13, 2018

Crinos said:
Doom Scythe said:

Crinos said:

Hi there.

I did the EXACT SAME switch one year and a half ago.

I had been shooting with the E-PL7 for 9 months before switching and even though I was happy with the IQ, I changed body for these reasons

Articulating screen: I have been used to tilting screens, but shooting (lanscapes) on portrait orientation wasn't easy. Now it's way more convenient, even the friends follwing my work have noticed that I use this orientation way more often

Click to expand...

Awesome to know someone who did the same. I don't quite understand you here. How does having an articulating screen help in this case?

Click to expand...

I shoot primarily landscapes. And wether on tripod or not, i like to shoot on protrait orientation. With the flipping screen, you have you check on the back/side of the camera. It's not convenient, especially when you're shootinh low on the ground.

With the articulating screen, even with the camera vertical, you can look at you screen more easily ... you can even take selfies without the tripod blocking the screen .. look at the photos below

Got it now. Thanks.

Doom Scythe · Dec 13, 2018

Thanks for all the replies, it helps. I finally bought the E-M5 Mk 2 for circa $570 with a free 45mm f1.8 in it. A bit bigger than my E-PL7, but I guess since I am always bringing it in a small bag, 1.5cm larger should not be too much a problem. The extra 100g does seem to bother me a little, but it's a price to pay for better stabilisation and the other extra features.

Now to sell off the 45mm......

BruceRH · Dec 13, 2018

Great, have fun with your new body!

To upgrade or not? E-PL7 to E-M5 II

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