Would you buy another S2 now?

Just nit-picking...

Jim Herndon said:

I would seriously consider the 10D, but would probably still go
with the S2. It just still seems to hold the lead for best skin
tone and detail without costing $8000!

Click to expand...

Are you referring to the Canon EOS-1Ds? The 10D doesn't cost $8000 unless you're planning on buying $6500 worth of lenses and accessories along with it?

Jason

Ray,

What I've read on these forums suggests that an announcement for the S3 won't even happen until Spring 2004 and then give it a few months for it to get to dealers, then it demand will outstrip supply and you'll have trouble getting it for a few more months...

That's a long way away. They haven't even announced one yet. I would go ahead and get an S2 now if it were up to me.

Even so, my own prediction is that they won't increase resolution - they'll just be coming out with an improvement to the S2!

My 2cents!

Jason Tay

.Ray said:

I lost my S2 and the insurance is sending me cash vouchers. I am
now wondering whether to buy another S2 immediately or wait a while.

I would be gutted if Fuji brings out something within a few months
of me getting another S2. On the other hand, supplies of new fuji
cameras has always been very short, so it will probably take 6
months for a new camera to become available after launch, which is
too long to wait.

What would you do?

Ray

Click to expand...

Ray

I would ask the insurance company if they can deal with another camera shop of your choice due to the fact that Jessops have no stock, give them some bull about needing it to takes some photos at a friends wedding.

.Ray said:

• well I live in hope.

Ray

Darrell Wilks said:

"so it will probably take 6 months for a new camera to become
available after launch, which is too long to wait."
Didn't you just answer your own question Ray? I think you are right
about the "announcement" to "in-the-hand" lag time, although 6
months is less of a reality these days.
Darrell

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jason S Tay said:

Ray,

What I've read on these forums suggests that an announcement for
the S3 won't even happen until Spring 2004 and then give it a few
months for it to get to dealers, then it demand will outstrip
supply and you'll have trouble getting it for a few more months...

That's a long way away. They haven't even announced one yet. I
would go ahead and get an S2 now if it were up to me.

Even so, my own prediction is that they won't increase resolution -
they'll just be coming out with an improvement to the S2!

My 2cents!

Jason Tay

Click to expand...

All of the reasons people covet the S3 are predicated on a host of improvements over the S2 Pro ie. full frame sensor, F100 body, better battery configuration, better focusing, 10+ mp etc etc. Nobody has mentioned that all of those cool things are going to cost a lot of money. If the S3 does truly raise the bar to stay competitive, I'll bet this is going to be a $3000+ camera body.

If I were Mr. Fuji, I would tweak the S2Pro and introduce the S2 Pro Plus at $1500 at the same time I brought the super-cool, super competitive S3 at $3000.

IMHO

Jason S Tay said:

.Ray said:

I lost my S2 and the insurance is sending me cash vouchers. I am
now wondering whether to buy another S2 immediately or wait a while.

I would be gutted if Fuji brings out something within a few months
of me getting another S2. On the other hand, supplies of new fuji
cameras has always been very short, so it will probably take 6
months for a new camera to become available after launch, which is
too long to wait.

What would you do?

Ray

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
H McCollister

I would wait.

I, too, have been told by my dealers that the S3 will be announced soon, and I'm sure that it will be quite a bit better than the S2, and the body should be a lot more robust.

By the way, using PhaseOne C1 for the 10d RAW files, there is effectively no resolution difference between RAWs from the S2 and the 10d (I have both cameras and have tested them side by side many times.)

But, if you have been happy with the S2 and you have a bunch of Nikkor lenses, I would not even consider the 10d.

I love to be able to buy a second S2 to be able to have two lenses immediately available. I just love it. I'm having terrific results with the camera.

There's even somebody posting today that there is an S5 hybrid using film and digital with 18mp coming out. All applications for that camera should be addressed to cloud cuckoo land. If Fuji bring out an S3 then it is going to cost more, demand will probably be high which will result in prices remaining high for about a year or so. Which means that an affordable, to me at least, S3 is in about spring 2005.
Get another S2 now. Go on........do as your told!

--
gibbsy
http://www.pbase.com/gibbsy

That's right - early adopter's prices will be much higher.

Your idea of an S2 Pro Plus and S3 at different price points is a really good idea! On the face of it, it certainly sounds like it's a tactic that could make the Fuji D-SLR "family" that much more appealing as a product line.

Jason

hmac said:

All of the reasons people covet the S3 are predicated on a host of
improvements over the S2 Pro ie. full frame sensor, F100 body,
better battery configuration, better focusing, 10+ mp etc etc.
Nobody has mentioned that all of those cool things are going to
cost a lot of money. If the S3 does truly raise the bar to stay
competitive, I'll bet this is going to be a $3000+ camera body.

If I were Mr. Fuji, I would tweak the S2Pro and introduce the S2
Pro Plus at $1500 at the same time I brought the super-cool, super
competitive S3 at $3000.

Click to expand...

...There is a visible 10%-15% gain, specially in higher spatial frequencies (e.g. textures, etc.) and even more in vertically/horizontally oriented spatial frequency. The S2 will be able to "see" stuff that the 10D will simply not. Mind you that I believe the 10D is a nice, well-built camera, targeted to a large aundience of folks that would like to jump into Digital photo, with a low entry barrier cost.

Not to talk about dynamic range, exposure consistency (with or witouth FLASH), overall noise levels, and, above all, image integrity when applying serious sharpening (I have 10D, D60, and 1D raw files in my hand, as well as my own S2's output), you name it...

Kind regards,

Ferenc

ron purdy said:

I would wait.
I, too, have been told by my dealers that the S3 will be announced
soon, and I'm sure that it will be quite a bit better than the S2,
and the body should be a lot more robust.
By the way, using PhaseOne C1 for the 10d RAW files, there is
effectively no resolution difference between RAWs from the S2 and
the 10d (I have both cameras and have tested them side by side many
times.)
But, if you have been happy with the S2 and you have a bunch of
Nikkor lenses, I would not even consider the 10d.

Click to expand...

Yeah, referring to the 1Ds - the big dawg out there currently. Sorry to be unclear. The 10D is good, but I think the S2 still edges it out.

Jim Herndon

Jason S Tay said:

Jim Herndon said:

I would seriously consider the 10D, but would probably still go
with the S2. It just still seems to hold the lead for best skin
tone and detail without costing $8000!

Click to expand...

Are you referring to the Canon EOS-1Ds? The 10D doesn't cost $8000
unless you're planning on buying $6500 worth of lenses and
accessories along with it?

Jason

Click to expand...

Hi All,

The S2's are used evey day in the studio & at most weekends at a wedding, in the studio all images are taken at 12 meg jpg's, weddings taken using the RAW format for greater control and flexability in contrasty lighting etc.

Since the purchase of the first S2 my trusty RB 67's were relegated to the cupboard, I'm now totally digital as the RB's were p/x to help in the cost of the second S2.

The S2 is a super camera, get one when you can, there is only one camera out there that is superior and that's the Canon 1Ds at around four times the cost.

Kind regards,

Bob Gower

http://www.bobgower.co.uk

Gerwyn Gibbs said:

I love to be able to buy a second S2 to be able to have two lenses
immediately available. I just love it. I'm having terrific results
with the camera.
There's even somebody posting today that there is an S5 hybrid
using film and digital with 18mp coming out. All applications for
that camera should be addressed to cloud cuckoo land. If Fuji bring
out an S3 then it is going to cost more, demand will probably be
high which will result in prices remaining high for about a year or
so. Which means that an affordable, to me at least, S3 is in about
spring 2005.
Get another S2 now. Go on........do as your told!

--
gibbsy
http://www.pbase.com/gibbsy

Click to expand...

I think the price would be $6000 USD. If there was an updated 2 maybe they could get away with selling these, but the big bucks are in the sub $2000 category. Fuji has the edge and can come out with a cam and 2 years later still be BIG in the game, who else has really done that?
Reguards,
Rob Perry

hmac said:

If I were Mr. Fuji, I would tweak the S2Pro and introduce the S2
Pro Plus at $1500 at the same time I brought the super-cool, super
competitive S3 at $3000.

IMHO

hmac said:

.Ray said:

I lost my S2 and the insurance is sending me cash vouchers. I am
now wondering whether to buy another S2 immediately or wait a while.

I would be gutted if Fuji brings out something within a few months
of me getting another S2. On the other hand, supplies of new fuji
cameras has always been very short, so it will probably take 6
months for a new camera to become available after launch, which is
too long to wait.

What would you do?

Ray

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
H McCollister

Click to expand...

Have you shot side by side with these cameras and compared the same scene? Do you have the PhaseOne C1 software that I am talking about?

Ferenc said:

Not to talk about dynamic range, exposure consistency (with or
witouth FLASH), overall noise levels, and, above all, image
integrity when applying serious sharpening (I have 10D, D60, and 1D
raw files in my hand, as well as my own S2's output), you name it...

Kind regards,

Ferenc

ron purdy said:

I would wait.
I, too, have been told by my dealers that the S3 will be announced
soon, and I'm sure that it will be quite a bit better than the S2,
and the body should be a lot more robust.
By the way, using PhaseOne C1 for the 10d RAW files, there is
effectively no resolution difference between RAWs from the S2 and
the 10d (I have both cameras and have tested them side by side many
times.)
But, if you have been happy with the S2 and you have a bunch of
Nikkor lenses, I would not even consider the 10d.

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

and we ordered a 9th last week.
You won't see an S3 for "at least" a year.

Gerwyn Gibbs said:

I love to be able to buy a second S2 to be able to have two lenses
immediately available. I just love it. I'm having terrific results
with the camera.
There's even somebody posting today that there is an S5 hybrid
using film and digital with 18mp coming out. All applications for
that camera should be addressed to cloud cuckoo land. If Fuji bring
out an S3 then it is going to cost more, demand will probably be
high which will result in prices remaining high for about a year or
so. Which means that an affordable, to me at least, S3 is in about
spring 2005.
Get another S2 now. Go on........do as your told!

--
gibbsy
http://www.pbase.com/gibbsy

Click to expand...

--
Only the Dead have seen the end of War....PLATO

Is there a favorite one there? Or all they all the same? How many pics are on the one with the most, and have you had any problems? Sorry for all the questions, but if you have 8, makes me a wee bit curious..
Reguards,
Rob Perry

Mike Goebel said:

Gerwyn Gibbs said:

I love to be able to buy a second S2 to be able to have two lenses
immediately available. I just love it. I'm having terrific results
with the camera.
There's even somebody posting today that there is an S5 hybrid
using film and digital with 18mp coming out. All applications for
that camera should be addressed to cloud cuckoo land. If Fuji bring
out an S3 then it is going to cost more, demand will probably be
high which will result in prices remaining high for about a year or
so. Which means that an affordable, to me at least, S3 is in about
spring 2005.
Get another S2 now. Go on........do as your told!

--
gibbsy
http://www.pbase.com/gibbsy

Click to expand...

--
Only the Dead have seen the end of War....PLATO

Click to expand...

I'VE NOW GOT NINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

Rob P. said:

Mike Goebel said:

Gerwyn Gibbs said:

I love to be able to buy a second S2 to be able to have two lenses
immediately available. I just love it. I'm having terrific results
with the camera.
There's even somebody posting today that there is an S5 hybrid
using film and digital with 18mp coming out. All applications for
that camera should be addressed to cloud cuckoo land. If Fuji bring
out an S3 then it is going to cost more, demand will probably be
high which will result in prices remaining high for about a year or
so. Which means that an affordable, to me at least, S3 is in about
spring 2005.
Get another S2 now. Go on........do as your told!

--
gibbsy
http://www.pbase.com/gibbsy

Click to expand...

--
Only the Dead have seen the end of War....PLATO

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

...during the development of FLEXSharp, I had the pleasure to work with a fellow member of this forum, who has owned D1X, D60, 10D, 1D and S2. As per my last contact with him, he retained the S2, the 10D and his 1D.

During our discussions, we addressed several aspects related to the image quality of these cameras. He is an avid RAW shooter, and, having extensively tested his equipment, with side-by-side images, he confirmed that all cameras produce very good results.

Now, in terms of resolution (which is your point), he also confirmed that the S2 clearly exhibits the highest among the trio, even though the 10D and 1D do provide very, very good results.

We was very kind to send me samples from his 10D and 1D, for FLEXSharp testing. Those images respond very, very well to FLEXSharp, but even then, the S2's impressive signal-to-noise ratio allows it to take incredible amounts of sharpening, while still being able to keep overall's image integrity... visibly beyond what the 1D or 10D (in that order) can sustain.

Take a look at this comparo, which I am sure you will find quiet interesting (now, this is a real comparo):

http://www.fcenter.ru/articles.shtml?digitalphoto/6681

Best regards,

Ferenc

ron purdy said:

Ferenc said:

Not to talk about dynamic range, exposure consistency (with or
witouth FLASH), overall noise levels, and, above all, image
integrity when applying serious sharpening (I have 10D, D60, and 1D
raw files in my hand, as well as my own S2's output), you name it...

Kind regards,

Ferenc

ron purdy said:

I would wait.
I, too, have been told by my dealers that the S3 will be announced
soon, and I'm sure that it will be quite a bit better than the S2,
and the body should be a lot more robust.
By the way, using PhaseOne C1 for the 10d RAW files, there is
effectively no resolution difference between RAWs from the S2 and
the 10d (I have both cameras and have tested them side by side many
times.)
But, if you have been happy with the S2 and you have a bunch of
Nikkor lenses, I would not even consider the 10d.

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

In order to illustrate my point about C1 showing more resolution than other conversion utilities, here are crops from the same 10d RAW file, one converted with C1 and one with BreezeBrowser.

If you say my testing is no good, you should be able to say why. I have seen no other tests between these cameras where the same scene was shot with both cameras and C1 was used with the 10d RAW files. If know of one, show me where it is.

It is a well know fact that C1 pulls far more detail and sharpness from the Canon RAW files than Breeze, and Canon's software do. Just ask any of the myriad other professional photographers who now use DSLR C1 on a regular basis like I do, who have reached the same conclusion -- it gets far more detail and sharpness from Canon RAW files than any other converter does.

This Fuji shot is with the 50 1.8. I have done the same with the Nikon 35-70 2.8 which shows identical resolution at f8.

The Canon file was resized up so it's roughly the same size as the native S2 RAW file.

Tripod used for all exposures.
All were shot at f8, 1/125 sec.
Lenses used:
50mm for the Canon.
35-70 2.8 for the S2.
Software:
Canon converted with PhaseOne C1
Fuji converted with Fuji RAW File Converter EX