Can a Full Frame Sony be "Downgraded"?

Majikdragon said:

It doesn't increase background compression like a real tele-increase would ...

Click to expand...

Yes it does!

Setter Dog said:

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that a FF camera could also use APS-C lenses and the resulting image would be just like using an APS-C camera. Did I dream this?

It would seem to be a great advantage to have a FF camera that could use the entire sensor when desired or use only part of the sensor at other times.

This may be a dumb question,.....but I'm seriously interested in a Sony FF and would like to know if the above flexibility exists.

Thanks,....please be gentle!

Jack

Click to expand...

HI Jack..yes. The optical quality will be reduced because the loss of FF advantages and the weakness of the optics will be magnified. However, it offers me the inconceivable convenience of using FF and that's why I always prefer a high megapixel camera like A7r over A7..for me to use APS-C crop. It is more convenient to use 1.2 APS-H crop if it is available, to enjoy using the APS dedicated lenses and to avoid too much crop.

Mark K said:

HI Jack..yes. The optical quality will be reduced because the loss of FF advantages and the weakness of the optics will be magnified. However, it offers me the inconceivable convenience of using FF and that's why I always prefer a high megapixel camera like A7r over A7..for me to use APS-C crop. It is more convenient to use 1.2 APS-H crop if it is available, to enjoy using the APS dedicated lenses and to avoid too much crop.

Click to expand...

Well. I've learned some good things in this thread.

It seems to me that my original thought to use APS-C lenses on a FF camera is probably not the best way to go. Using the "APS-C mode" with a FF camera and lens looks like a better idea.

Now, the fun part starts,...deciding which FF to buy. Frankly, I'm bargain minded and the a7ii with kit lens at $998 looks like a steal.

Thanks to all for the education,..excellent input!

Jack

BBQue said:

Majikdragon said:

It doesn't increase background compression like a real tele-increase would ...

Click to expand...

Yes it does!

Click to expand...

No it doesn't. It literally just crops the output of the sensor and you would achieve the exact same result from cropping the original 42mp photo to the same frame. Zero increase in background compression. Feel free to try it.

Setter Dog said:

Mark K said:

HI Jack..yes. The optical quality will be reduced because the loss of FF advantages and the weakness of the optics will be magnified. However, it offers me the inconceivable convenience of using FF and that's why I always prefer a high megapixel camera like A7r over A7..for me to use APS-C crop. It is more convenient to use 1.2 APS-H crop if it is available, to enjoy using the APS dedicated lenses and to avoid too much crop.

Click to expand...

Well. I've learned some good things in this thread.

It seems to me that my original thought to use APS-C lenses on a FF camera is probably not the best way to go. Using the "APS-C mode" with a FF camera and lens looks like a better idea.

Now, the fun part starts,...deciding which FF to buy. Frankly, I'm bargain minded and the a7ii with kit lens at $998 looks like a steal.

Thanks to all for the education,..excellent input!

Jack

Click to expand...

I've chosen the alternative to APS-C lenses on my A7. (even though I have some.)

My alternative is to use full-frame EF Canon lenses with an adapter. I think it produces better results.

Setter Dog said:

Mark K said:

HI Jack..yes. The optical quality will be reduced because the loss of FF advantages and the weakness of the optics will be magnified. However, it offers me the inconceivable convenience of using FF and that's why I always prefer a high megapixel camera like A7r over A7..for me to use APS-C crop. It is more convenient to use 1.2 APS-H crop if it is available, to enjoy using the APS dedicated lenses and to avoid too much crop.

Click to expand...

Well. I've learned some good things in this thread.

It seems to me that my original thought to use APS-C lenses on a FF camera is probably not the best way to go. Using the "APS-C mode" with a FF camera and lens looks like a better idea.

Now, the fun part starts,...deciding which FF to buy. Frankly, I'm bargain minded and the a7ii with kit lens at $998 looks like a steal.

Thanks to all for the education,..excellent input!

Jack

Click to expand...

Hi Jack...A7II has only a 24 MP sensor which translates into a 10MP one if is cropped and it belongs to an old generation of A7 with smaller battery and less capable AF system which falls behind comparing to dSLR.

And A7Rii... 18MP

I find best use is for 'extending' long distance captures with tele lens (i.e. Not using an APS-C lens). It can be argued 'just crop'... but psychologically looking through the viewfinder when on APS-C setting can be advantageous.

I would NOT though specifically buy an APS-C lens if I did not already have one/some.

Majikdragon said:

The 42mp Sony cameras have 1.5x crop modes that results in 18mp images. Mine is set to the magnify button on the back of the camera where my thumb rests and I often toggle between the full frame 42mp and cropped 18mp modes when shooting on vacation, street, and wildlife stuff. I find it incredibly useful when shooting primes like my Loxia 21 and Zeiss 55 as it allows me to toggle between 21, 31.5, 55, and 82.5mm effective focal lengths for framing. It doesn't increase background compression like a real tele-increase would and you could just crop the original 42mp image to get the exact same result but if you need out of camera results quickly then it's a nice feature to have.

Click to expand...

that is exactly my intention for a nimble wedding setup, using two bodies with 25/2 and 85/1.8, and cropping to roughly 35/2.8 and 135/2.8.

since i do most of my framing in camera, a dedicated button is crucial for that. which body are you using? i heard that this is not possible on the A7R II - was there a firmware update finally allowing this?

georg f said:

Majikdragon said:

The 42mp Sony cameras have 1.5x crop modes that results in 18mp images. Mine is set to the magnify button on the back of the camera where my thumb rests and I often toggle between the full frame 42mp and cropped 18mp modes when shooting on vacation, street, and wildlife stuff. I find it incredibly useful when shooting primes like my Loxia 21 and Zeiss 55 as it allows me to toggle between 21, 31.5, 55, and 82.5mm effective focal lengths for framing. It doesn't increase background compression like a real tele-increase would and you could just crop the original 42mp image to get the exact same result but if you need out of camera results quickly then it's a nice feature to have.

Click to expand...

that is exactly my intention for a nimble wedding setup, using two bodies with 25/2 and 85/1.8, and cropping to roughly 35/2.8 and 135/2.8.

since i do most of my framing in camera, a dedicated button is crucial for that. which body are you using? i heard that this is not possible on the A7R II - was there a firmware update finally allowing this?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately: No - and in all likelihood nerver will be.

mcslsk said:

voronspb said:

mcslsk said:

No, you increase teh value of teh a7r3 by making use of its versatility. Many APS-C lenses perform even better on the FF sensor. Just get a Canon EF-S 24/2.8 and put it on an a7r2 or a7r3. You'll be surprised.

Click to expand...

Indeed there's some added versatility. But it's quite specific. I doubt that EF-S 24/2.8 will suddenly become F/2.0 on FF sensor.

Click to expand...

No, it won't. But one hell of a sharp lens @2.8 across the frame which, given price and size, is remarkable.

Click to expand...

Of note, in the case of the EF-S 24/2.8 - It has fairly decent image circle coverage such that you can likely take a much wider crop than the APS-C region if you put it on an FF sensor.

But you need to disable auto-crop on the camera and spend some extra time in post when doing this.

Some of the APS-C zooms actually have decent FF coverage at the long end if you remove the rear baffles. Again - you want to disable autocrop.

There's also the argument made by some that 18MP without AA filter is potentially better than 24MP with AA in some scenarios. You'll also gain rolling shutter performance when using an R3 in S35 mode compared to A6500, but whether that is worth the cost of the R3? Don't know - personally it wasn't for me.

--
Context is key. If I have quoted someone else's post when replying, please do not reply to something I say without reading text that I have quoted, and understanding the reason the quote function exists.

why, oh why.....

Entropy512 said:

mcslsk said:

voronspb said:

mcslsk said:

No, you increase teh value of teh a7r3 by making use of its versatility. Many APS-C lenses perform even better on the FF sensor. Just get a Canon EF-S 24/2.8 and put it on an a7r2 or a7r3. You'll be surprised.

Click to expand...

Indeed there's some added versatility. But it's quite specific. I doubt that EF-S 24/2.8 will suddenly become F/2.0 on FF sensor.

Click to expand...

No, it won't. But one hell of a sharp lens @2.8 across the frame which, given price and size, is remarkable.

Click to expand...

Of note, in the case of the EF-S 24/2.8 - It has fairly decent image circle coverage such that you can likely take a much wider crop than the APS-C region if you put it on an FF sensor.

But you need to disable auto-crop on the camera and spend some extra time in post when doing this.

Some of the APS-C zooms actually have decent FF coverage at the long end if you remove the rear baffles. Again - you want to disable autocrop.

There's also the argument made by some that 18MP without AA filter is potentially better than 24MP with AA in some scenarios. You'll also gain rolling shutter performance when using an R3 in S35 mode compared to A6500, but whether that is worth the cost of the R3? Don't know - personally it wasn't for me.

Click to expand...

I tried my EFS 24 on my A7. It showed poorly on my A7, although it was fine on my Sony APSC bodies. Also fine on my Canon, of course.