DPR Review of EOS R vs Reality

David Hull said:

[/QUOTE] David Hull said:

janez said:

wmlele said:

janez said:

Prehaps you are right but it really looks like they did that because they want to sell chargers for 190$.

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Since they implemented the industry standard, you don't really have to buy theirs, do you? Actually, since they implemented the industry standard, you can use any charger implementing said standard, and be reasonably sure it will work, and not damage the camera.

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If I remember correctly Canon does not recommend using third party chargers (even if they are 100% compilant to standard). They only recommend using their own. That means they are greedy or their solution is not implemented to industry standard.

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Of course they do. They also recommend that you use their branded batteries as well (have you seen that cute commercial they run?). There are other valid reasons for doing this besides "Canon is greedy" which is that you know that it will work. What makes them greedy is that they charge close to $200 for something that should (and could) sell for $20. But they also sell the camera for $300 more than the competitors as well. Welcome to Canon -- if you don't like this well, there are other options.

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CanonSharpShooter said:

This team is spoiled in terms of photography gear, they get to play with it all. And they get to play with it for an extended period of time and get to switch from one camera to another on a daily basis. Most mortals here are going to the shop or expo to handle and play with the cameras. Therefore DPR has this “unrealistic “ standard when they are comparing the camera to it’s peers.

Most people would buy a camera and use it not knowing what another company may have. Learn to get over the obstacles and shoot away. But DPR guys are like why I have to learn to get over this shortcoming when it’s peer makes it so much easier.

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CanonSharpShooter said:

Bottom line is with any camera available in 2018 you can take beautiful pictures with. But is it worth the money for what it offers compared to it’s peers? I know I won’t be paying $2400 for an R. With it’s shortcomings clearly shown in the review I’m willing to wait and pick one up next year for $1200-$1500. This is also why I like Canon. They are willing to drop their prices aggressively in a short period of time.

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MikeJ9116 said:

CanonSharpShooter said:

This team is spoiled in terms of photography gear, they get to play with it all. And they get to play with it for an extended period of time and get to switch from one camera to another on a daily basis. Most mortals here are going to the shop or expo to handle and play with the cameras. Therefore DPR has this “unrealistic “ standard when they are comparing the camera to it’s peers.

Most people would buy a camera and use it not knowing what another company may have. Learn to get over the obstacles and shoot away. But DPR guys are like why I have to learn to get over this shortcoming when it’s peer makes it so much easier.

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Actually, this makes the DPR team highly qualified regarding camera gear and the relative value between brands/models. Most of us have limited experience but we pretend our opinions are just as weighted as people who "get to play with it all." If everyone got to do the same a lot of opinions would likely change.

MikeJ9116 said:

Bottom line is with any camera available in 2018 you can take beautiful pictures with. But is it worth the money for what it offers compared to it’s peers? I know I won’t be paying $2400 for an R. With it’s shortcomings clearly shown in the review I’m willing to wait and pick one up next year for $1200-$1500. This is also why I like Canon. They are willing to drop their prices aggressively in a short period of time.

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As I have seen posted elsewhere, this statement comes to mind..... "There are no bad cameras, only overpriced ones."

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Noogy said:

MikeJ9116 said:

CanonSharpShooter said:

This team is spoiled in terms of photography gear, they get to play with it all. And they get to play with it for an extended period of time and get to switch from one camera to another on a daily basis. Most mortals here are going to the shop or expo to handle and play with the cameras. Therefore DPR has this “unrealistic “ standard when they are comparing the camera to it’s peers.

Most people would buy a camera and use it not knowing what another company may have. Learn to get over the obstacles and shoot away. But DPR guys are like why I have to learn to get over this shortcoming when it’s peer makes it so much easier.

Click to expand...

Actually, this makes the DPR team highly qualified regarding camera gear and the relative value between brands/models. Most of us have limited experience but we pretend our opinions are just as weighted as people who "get to play with it all." If everyone got to do the same a lot of opinions would likely change.

Larawanista said:

Bottom line is with any camera available in 2018 you can take beautiful pictures with. But is it worth the money for what it offers compared to it’s peers? I know I won’t be paying $2400 for an R. With it’s shortcomings clearly shown in the review I’m willing to wait and pick one up next year for $1200-$1500. This is also why I like Canon. They are willing to drop their prices aggressively in a short period of time.

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As I have seen posted elsewhere, this statement comes to mind..... "There are no bad cameras, only overpriced ones."

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Paid professional reviewers are spoiled indeed. So it's like taking advice from a spoiled brat?

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MikeJ9116 said:

CanonSharpShooter said:

This team is spoiled in terms of photography gear, they get to play with it all. And they get to play with it for an extended period of time and get to switch from one camera to another on a daily basis. Most mortals here are going to the shop or expo to handle and play with the cameras. Therefore DPR has this “unrealistic “ standard when they are comparing the camera to it’s peers.

Most people would buy a camera and use it not knowing what another company may have. Learn to get over the obstacles and shoot away. But DPR guys are like why I have to learn to get over this shortcoming when it’s peer makes it so much easier.

Click to expand...

Actually, this makes the DPR team highly qualified regarding camera gear and the relative value between brands/models. Most of us have limited experience but we pretend our opinions are just as weighted as people who "get to play with it all." If everyone got to do the same a lot of opinions would likely change.

MikeJ9116 said:

Bottom line is with any camera available in 2018 you can take beautiful pictures with. But is it worth the money for what it offers compared to it’s peers? I know I won’t be paying $2400 for an R. With it’s shortcomings clearly shown in the review I’m willing to wait and pick one up next year for $1200-$1500. This is also why I like Canon. They are willing to drop their prices aggressively in a short period of time.

Click to expand...

As I have seen posted elsewhere, this statement comes to mind..... "There are no bad cameras, only overpriced ones."

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Yake said:

MikeJ9116 said:

CanonSharpShooter said:

This team is spoiled in terms of photography gear, they get to play with it all. And they get to play with it for an extended period of time and get to switch from one camera to another on a daily basis. Most mortals here are going to the shop or expo to handle and play with the cameras. Therefore DPR has this “unrealistic “ standard when they are comparing the camera to it’s peers.

Most people would buy a camera and use it not knowing what another company may have. Learn to get over the obstacles and shoot away. But DPR guys are like why I have to learn to get over this shortcoming when it’s peer makes it so much easier.

Click to expand...

Actually, this makes the DPR team highly qualified regarding camera gear and the relative value between brands/models. Most of us have limited experience but we pretend our opinions are just as weighted as people who "get to play with it all." If everyone got to do the same a lot of opinions would likely change.

Yake said:

Bottom line is with any camera available in 2018 you can take beautiful pictures with. But is it worth the money for what it offers compared to it’s peers? I know I won’t be paying $2400 for an R. With it’s shortcomings clearly shown in the review I’m willing to wait and pick one up next year for $1200-$1500. This is also why I like Canon. They are willing to drop their prices aggressively in a short period of time.

Click to expand...

As I have seen posted elsewhere, this statement comes to mind..... "There are no bad cameras, only overpriced ones."

Click to expand...

There are bad cameras for certain uses. The DPR team may be expert at reviewing, but they are not expert at my personal work & style. So a camera that can't autofocus well in low light is a bad camera for me. That's why I got rid of the Sony A7II and kept the Canon 6D. That's why I wouldn't buy an A7II again no matter how low the price got. The frustration of using the A7II (... 89% GOLD AWARD ...) is seared into my brain.

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Yake said:

There are bad cameras for certain uses. The DPR team may be expert at reviewing, but they are not expert at my personal work & style. So a camera that can't autofocus well in low light is a bad camera for me. That's why I got rid of the Sony A7II and kept the Canon 6D. That's why I wouldn't buy an A7II again no matter how low the price got. The frustration of using the A7II (... 89% GOLD AWARD ...) is seared into my brain.

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MikeJ9116 said:

The DPR review is very pragmatic, IMO. They did not speak untruths regarding the R.

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MikeJ9116 said:

They pointed out its strengths and weaknesses fairly.

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MikeJ9116 said:

Unfortunately for the R they also pointed out its value in the FF MILC marketplace. It is last place, uncontested, in the FF MILC market. Almost any measure relating to camera body performance the R is last or close to it.

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MikeJ9116 said:

People say it is a good effort for Canon's first FF MILC offering but it really isn't. They have been developing MILC cameras for the past six years with with the EOS M system. The only difference between the M and R is the sensor size and mount configuration.

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MikeJ9116 said:

Everything else translates from one system to the other. The shortcomings of the R system reflect the same shortcomings in the M system. Canon has done, by far, the least amount of effort in developing their MILC technology than all the other major players in this market segment. This is now putting them in a bind and it will get far worse the longer they keep ignoring MILC R&D.

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MikeJ9116 said:

I am glad DPR spanked them in the R review. Canon needs the wake up call but I don't have much hope that they will pay much attention to it. Maybe they will surprise me.

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Jonathan Brady said:

Yake said:

There are bad cameras for certain uses. The DPR team may be expert at reviewing, but they are not expert at my personal work & style. So a camera that can't autofocus well in low light is a bad camera for me. That's why I got rid of the Sony A7II and kept the Canon 6D. That's why I wouldn't buy an A7II again no matter how low the price got. The frustration of using the A7II (... 89% GOLD AWARD ...) is seared into my brain.

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Sounds like you didn't do your research before buying and are now blaming the equipment. The A7II is rated to -1EV.

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Kharan said:

Jonathan Brady said:

Noogy said:

Because the paid professional reviewers of DPR knows best when it comes to chargers?

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do you have any cancelled checks, photographic or video evidence of a clandestine financial transaction, or maybe a recording of a conversation where Barney agrees to accept crypto currency for a positive review coupled with hit jobs on the competition? If you do, I'll be the first in line to protest.

Or perhaps you're referring to the free trip to Hawaii that Canon provided them in exchange for a glowingly positive review?

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Save your keystrokes, Jonathan. You aren’t getting anywhere :-|

You’ll never get a straight answer from the folks in this forum, and that’s a shame, because your rhetorical question is the best response to all the “DPR hates Canon/was bought by Sony” whining and clamoring.

Seriously people, you make Pentax shooters look tame in comparison, and they’re still whimpering over the K-3 review!

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Yake said:

MikeJ9116 said:

The DPR review is very pragmatic, IMO. They did not speak untruths regarding the R.

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Yes they did. They dumped on its ergonomics (rating the A7III higher), despite its superb ergonomics. They dumped on its image quality (rating the A7III higher), despite its offering more resolution, great Canon portrait color, no striping, etc.

Yake said:

They pointed out its strengths and weaknesses fairly.

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Nope, not fairly. Somehow they rated the A7III higher for ergonomics and for viewfinder / screen, among other things (despite that Sony having a worse EVF). Somehow the R's size & better grip became a "weakness". Etc. Did they rate Canon's menu system in their "Likes"? No! But they rated Sony's "improved" menu system in their "Likes" for the A7III. Think about that for a moment!

Yake said:

Unfortunately for the R they also pointed out its value in the FF MILC marketplace. It is last place, uncontested, in the FF MILC market. Almost any measure relating to camera body performance the R is last or close to it.

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Except it's the best at low light autofocus. And the best at adapting Canon's great lenses and flashes.

Yake said:

People say it is a good effort for Canon's first FF MILC offering but it really isn't. They have been developing MILC cameras for the past six years with with the EOS M system. The only difference between the M and R is the sensor size and mount configuration.

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... and (you forgot) the new lenses, and adapters, and control rings, and viewfinder, and m-fn bar, and low light AF, and grip, top LCD, sensor cover, etc. (gosh you forgot a lot).

Yake said:

Everything else translates from one system to the other. The shortcomings of the R system reflect the same shortcomings in the M system. Canon has done, by far, the least amount of effort in developing their MILC technology than all the other major players in this market segment. This is now putting them in a bind and it will get far worse the longer they keep ignoring MILC R&D.

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Somehow, for allegedly doing the "least", Canon introduced the MILC with the most lenses at launch: 4. Sony had 2. Nikon had 3. And the most adapters: 4. And a unique sensor cover. And a unique lens control ring. And better eye relief for eyeglass wearers.

Yake said:

I am glad DPR spanked them in the R review. Canon needs the wake up call but I don't have much hope that they will pay much attention to it. Maybe they will surprise me.

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No, no matter what Canon does, they won't surprise you. You'll still be here to give your daily Canon harangue.

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Noogy said:

Kharan said:

Jonathan Brady said:

Noogy said:

Because the paid professional reviewers of DPR knows best when it comes to chargers?

Click to expand...

do you have any cancelled checks, photographic or video evidence of a clandestine financial transaction, or maybe a recording of a conversation where Barney agrees to accept crypto currency for a positive review coupled with hit jobs on the competition? If you do, I'll be the first in line to protest.

Or perhaps you're referring to the free trip to Hawaii that Canon provided them in exchange for a glowingly positive review?

Click to expand...

Save your keystrokes, Jonathan. You aren’t getting anywhere :-|

You’ll never get a straight answer from the folks in this forum, and that’s a shame, because your rhetorical question is the best response to all the “DPR hates Canon/was bought by Sony” whining and clamoring.

Seriously people, you make Pentax shooters look tame in comparison, and they’re still whimpering over the K-3 review!

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Part of what they are paid to do, is to perform gear reviews. They are paid professionals for that. It becomes an accusation had I written they were paid by a particular brand. Or a store.

A paid professional actor is a label many people in the movie industry are identified as.

Stop postulating you belong a reasoned or reasonable group just because there are people criticizing the critiques. That is a narrative valid only in your heads.

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Yake said:

MikeJ9116 said:

The DPR review is very pragmatic, IMO. They did not speak untruths regarding the R.

Click to expand...

Yes they did. They dumped on its ergonomics (rating the A7III higher), despite its superb ergonomics. They dumped on its image quality (rating the A7III higher), despite its offering more resolution, great Canon portrait color, no striping, etc.

Click to expand...

Yake said:

Yake said:

They pointed out its strengths and weaknesses fairly.

Click to expand...

Nope, not fairly. Somehow they rated the A7III higher for ergonomics and for viewfinder / screen, among other things (despite that Sony having a worse EVF). Somehow the R's size & better grip became a "weakness". Etc. Did they rate Canon's menu system in their "Likes"? No! But they rated Sony's "improved" menu system in their "Likes" for the A7III. Think about that for a moment!

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Yake said:

Yake said:

Unfortunately for the R they also pointed out its value in the FF MILC marketplace. It is last place, uncontested, in the FF MILC market. Almost any measure relating to camera body performance the R is last or close to it.

Click to expand...

Except it's the best at low light autofocus. And the best at adapting Canon's great lenses and flashes.

Click to expand...

Yake said:

Yake said:

People say it is a good effort for Canon's first FF MILC offering but it really isn't. They have been developing MILC cameras for the past six years with with the EOS M system. The only difference between the M and R is the sensor size and mount configuration.

Click to expand...

... and (you forgot) the new lenses, and adapters, and control rings, and viewfinder, and m-fn bar, and low light AF, and grip, top LCD, sensor cover, etc. (gosh you forgot a lot).

Click to expand...

Yake said:

Yake said:

Everything else translates from one system to the other. The shortcomings of the R system reflect the same shortcomings in the M system. Canon has done, by far, the least amount of effort in developing their MILC technology than all the other major players in this market segment. This is now putting them in a bind and it will get far worse the longer they keep ignoring MILC R&D.

Click to expand...

Somehow, for allegedly doing the "least", Canon introduced the MILC with the most lenses at launch: 4. Sony had 2. Nikon had 3. And the most adapters: 4. And a unique sensor cover. And a unique lens control ring. And better eye relief for eyeglass wearers.

Click to expand...

Yake said:

Yake said:

I am glad DPR spanked them in the R review. Canon needs the wake up call but I don't have much hope that they will pay much attention to it. Maybe they will surprise me.

Click to expand...

No, no matter what Canon does, they won't surprise you. You'll still be here to give your daily Canon harangue.

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Noogy said:

And the delusional narrative is that those who accept the reviews almost without question, defending every line, every logic (or lack of it) - that they are the reasonable bunch, that they are the mature, ready-to-accept any BS bunch, therefore the rest are just fanboys, etc. The narrative is so passively toxic they actually think they are doing mankind a favor by labeling themselves as the provenance of reasoned narratives. When in fact they are the most subtly prejudiced, for shooting down those who criticize the critiques.

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Yake said:

MikeJ9116 said:

CanonSharpShooter said:

This team is spoiled in terms of photography gear, they get to play with it all. And they get to play with it for an extended period of time and get to switch from one camera to another on a daily basis. Most mortals here are going to the shop or expo to handle and play with the cameras. Therefore DPR has this “unrealistic “ standard when they are comparing the camera to it’s peers.

Most people would buy a camera and use it not knowing what another company may have. Learn to get over the obstacles and shoot away. But DPR guys are like why I have to learn to get over this shortcoming when it’s peer makes it so much easier.

Click to expand...

Actually, this makes the DPR team highly qualified regarding camera gear and the relative value between brands/models. Most of us have limited experience but we pretend our opinions are just as weighted as people who "get to play with it all." If everyone got to do the same a lot of opinions would likely change.

Yake said:

Bottom line is with any camera available in 2018 you can take beautiful pictures with. But is it worth the money for what it offers compared to it’s peers? I know I won’t be paying $2400 for an R. With it’s shortcomings clearly shown in the review I’m willing to wait and pick one up next year for $1200-$1500. This is also why I like Canon. They are willing to drop their prices aggressively in a short period of time.

Click to expand...

As I have seen posted elsewhere, this statement comes to mind..... "There are no bad cameras, only overpriced ones."

Click to expand...

There are bad cameras for certain uses. The DPR team may be expert at reviewing, but they are not expert at my personal work & style. So a camera that can't autofocus well in low light is a bad camera for me. That's why I got rid of the Sony A7II and kept the Canon 6D. That's why I wouldn't buy an A7II again no matter how low the price got. The frustration of using the A7II (... 89% GOLD AWARD ...) is seared into my brain.

Click to expand...

Noogy said:

Yake said:

MikeJ9116 said:

The DPR review is very pragmatic, IMO. They did not speak untruths regarding the R.

Click to expand...

Yes they did. They dumped on its ergonomics (rating the A7III higher), despite its superb ergonomics. They dumped on its image quality (rating the A7III higher), despite its offering more resolution, great Canon portrait color, no striping, etc.

Larawanista said:

They pointed out its strengths and weaknesses fairly.

Click to expand...

Nope, not fairly. Somehow they rated the A7III higher for ergonomics and for viewfinder / screen, among other things (despite that Sony having a worse EVF). Somehow the R's size & better grip became a "weakness". Etc. Did they rate Canon's menu system in their "Likes"? No! But they rated Sony's "improved" menu system in their "Likes" for the A7III. Think about that for a moment!

Larawanista said:

Unfortunately for the R they also pointed out its value in the FF MILC marketplace. It is last place, uncontested, in the FF MILC market. Almost any measure relating to camera body performance the R is last or close to it.

Click to expand...

Except it's the best at low light autofocus. And the best at adapting Canon's great lenses and flashes.

Larawanista said:

People say it is a good effort for Canon's first FF MILC offering but it really isn't. They have been developing MILC cameras for the past six years with with the EOS M system. The only difference between the M and R is the sensor size and mount configuration.

Click to expand...

... and (you forgot) the new lenses, and adapters, and control rings, and viewfinder, and m-fn bar, and low light AF, and grip, top LCD, sensor cover, etc. (gosh you forgot a lot).

Larawanista said:

Everything else translates from one system to the other. The shortcomings of the R system reflect the same shortcomings in the M system. Canon has done, by far, the least amount of effort in developing their MILC technology than all the other major players in this market segment. This is now putting them in a bind and it will get far worse the longer they keep ignoring MILC R&D.

Click to expand...

Somehow, for allegedly doing the "least", Canon introduced the MILC with the most lenses at launch: 4. Sony had 2. Nikon had 3. And the most adapters: 4. And a unique sensor cover. And a unique lens control ring. And better eye relief for eyeglass wearers.

Larawanista said:

I am glad DPR spanked them in the R review. Canon needs the wake up call but I don't have much hope that they will pay much attention to it. Maybe they will surprise me.

Click to expand...

No, no matter what Canon does, they won't surprise you. You'll still be here to give your daily Canon harangue.

Click to expand...

And the delusional narrative is that those who accept the reviews almost without question, defending every line, every logic (or lack of it) - that they are the reasonable bunch, that they are the mature, ready-to-accept any BS bunch, therefore the rest are just fanboys, etc. The narrative is so passively toxic they actually think they are doing mankind a favor by labeling themselves as the provenance of reasoned narratives. When in fact they are the most subtly prejudiced, for shooting down those who criticize the critiques.

Click to expand...

diness said:

pyla said:

Yake said:

Noogy said:

What totally surprised me was the auto focus portion of the review. It is so completely different from my experience. Makes me wonder sometimes if these reviewers really spend enough time to use the right settings.

I used my 5DMIV and my EOS R over the weekend to do a stylized wedding shoot with a couple of professional models. My EOS R focused faster and more accurately than my 5DMIV. And I never really disliked the fact that the focusing points of the 5DMIV cannot go to the edges of the frame until I'm able to do that on the EOS R!

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For more fun, read the A7III review's conclusions. None of these actual A7III cons made DPR's list of "What we don't like":

• grip too close to body with some lenses
• terrible menu system
• no top-level LCD
• no fully articulating flip out screen
• drop in DR when shooting compressed raw in continuous mode
• lack of classic aspect ratios like 1:1 and 4:3
• small aps-c lens mount
• total reliance on 3rd parties for adapters (with mixed results)

They actually mention the "updated menu system" in the list of "What we like" ... so Sony gets points just for improving on something that was terrible in prior cameras, never mind that it's still terrible.

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Did they also mention that while on paper Sony has 1080p with 120fps, the video is soft and auto focus is not that good?

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Hows the AF on the Eos R at 120fps? ;

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diness said:

diness said:

Did they mention that Sony only has 100 MBPS in 4K that falls apart under heavy grading? Did they mention that compared to other cameras, it overheats more quickly while recording 4k? That when shooting in bright conditions, the LCD screen is so poor that it makes exposure simulation practically useless.

They also compared the video quality of the EOS R to the fuji X-T3. According to Fuji's own spec sheet, in 4k video mode there is a 20 minute recording limit when shooting 60fps and 30 minute when shooting 30fps. But yet very few reviewers talks about this limitation. Can you imagine if Canon did such a thing? There would be endless reviews about how Canon "cripples" their cameras.

I am not saying that these negative factors make Sony a bad camera. I am just using this as examples of how biased reviewers are against Canon.

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CanonSharpShooter said:

This team is spoiled in terms of photography gear, they get to play with it all. And they get to play with it for an extended period of time and get to switch from one camera to another on a daily basis. Most mortals here are going to the shop or expo to handle and play with the cameras. Therefore DPR has this “unrealistic “ standard when they are comparing the camera to it’s peers. Most people would buy a camera and use it not knowing what another company may have. Learn to get over the obstacles and shoot away. But DPR guys are like why I have to learn to get over this shortcoming when it’s peer makes it so much easier.

Bottom line is with any camera available in 2018 you can take beautiful pictures with. But is it worth the money for what it offers compared to it’s peers? I know I won’t be paying $2400 for an R. With it’s shortcomings clearly shown in the review I’m willing to wait and pick one up next year for $1200-$1500. This is also why I like Canon. They are willing to drop their prices aggressively in a short period of time.

Click to expand...