How new is my camera?

Peak freak said:

My suspicion is that it is a returned camera that gets repackaged as new, but I need to be able to prove that and it could be in the shot count.

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No store is going to give any kind on concession based on a file number of a user's memory card

Peak freak said:

I've been through all my imported files. The numbers just don't add up, the shot count is about 25% higher than the number of files taken.

I'm asking here because the Canon rep on the phone couldn't give me an answer other than shot count and EXIF often don't match up. In my case it's pretty easy to correlate the numbers because it is relatively new.

Thanks anyway.

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drynn said:

Peak freak said:

Thanks. I don't know how to do the count.

The camera was sent back under warranty for an 'Error 99' and dirty sensor. Canon apparently replaced a board but didn't clean the sensor, presumably because of the time that had passed. It was then Canon did a shot count, and because I had my suspicions I added everything up to find a sizable gap.

As an aside, the file numbering from my first folder starts at img.3375 which seemed unusual, but the file numbering sequenced properly from there so it's a bit of a red herring. (The actual shot count vs number of files is what mattered).

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Firstly, you now will never be able to 'prove' anything related to the shutter count difference. It's all too late.

Secondly, how do you know that 700 activations did not take place during the service by the manufacturer e.g. "Ah, we've just carried out a significant repair here so let's do a thorough and rigorous test over several hours and many shutter activations"? After all, you are saying that you did not know about this discrepancy until after the repairer told you.

Thirdly, if you did not set the image numbering to 3375, then I would be expecting that up to that point there would have already been 3375 activations.

Are you sure that you have all the details correct here?

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It is a little difficult to explain everything here on a forum, especially with things like the file numbering starting at 3375. If there were already 3375 activation's that would reflect in about 6000 shot total - not the case. I didn't initially include this because it is confusing. Why it started at 3375 with a formatted card is anyone's guess, including Canon's based on some of their feedback.

Moving on, when the camera was sent to Canon service (via the retail store) there was a note added (because of my suspicions) to do a shot count. This is the return note from Canon service: "Disassembled camera to replace main PCB assy. Reassembled, checked and tested. Shot count = 3697".

At this point I thoroughly checked the number of files and file numbering I had from this camera. It comes to 2961 files. I have no reason to lie to you about this. I doubt Canon rattled off another 700 shots in testing without indicating that under the circumstances.

Indeed, I can't prove anything, more I am trying to figure out why such a difference. This and the dirty sensor point towards a used or returned camera, sold as new. However, I have to keep an open mind, so are gathering ideas. Thanks for these.

RedFox88 said:

No store is going to give any kind on concession based on a file number of a user's memory card

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Absolutely. So the takeaway from this could be: Always check how clean the sensor is on your new camera as soon as possible, because that is the only time the manufacturer will consider cleaning it under warranty. - This should also cover you for any potential issues further on.

There is the possibility that you should also do a shot count.

The store i purchased from has a 14 days return period. I am now asking myself the question; what happens to those returned cameras? Are they 'refurbished', as new?

The camera appeared brand new, in its packaging, but possibly not. My bad, now.

Doug J said:

If Canon service reported the shutter actuations after they performed the service, they might have inserted a memory card that was not formatted and had carry-over counts from a previous camera. The camera will pick up and start with the last number on the card if present.
Cheers,
Doug

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From what I understand (talking to Canon) 'shot count' is absolute, independent of any file numbering permutations.

FWIW, all photos from the camera number perfectly sequentially from one folder to the next, just as you would expect from formatted cards. The numbering also includes any in-camera deleted files.

It was simple for me to work out but I also counted the files just to be sure. This shows up slightly less, because of in camera deleted files.

Put simply, there are 736 more 'shots' on the camera than files I have taken with it.

As pointed out this is 'unproveable'. I just have no reason to lie here, to you guys.

Peak freak said:

RedFox88 said:

No store is going to give any kind on concession based on a file number of a user's memory card

Click to expand...

Absolutely. So the takeaway from this could be: Always check how clean the sensor is on your new camera as soon as possible, because that is the only time the manufacturer will consider cleaning it under warranty. -

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nope. I’ve read of many users in here sending it or driving it to canon for cleaning under warranty

Peak freak said:

This should also cover you for any potential issues further on.

There is the possibility that you should also do a shot count.

The store i purchased from has a 14 days return period. I am now asking myself the question; what happens to those returned cameras? Are they 'refurbished', as new?

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The penalty for relaxed return policy and for allowing a “i just don’t want it” returns instead of only if there’s an actual defect

Peak freak said:

The camera appeared brand new, in its packaging, but possibly not. My bad, now.

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Peak freak said:

Doug J said:

If Canon service reported the shutter actuations after they performed the service, they might have inserted a memory card that was not formatted and had carry-over counts from a previous camera. The camera will pick up and start with the last number on the card if present.

Cheers,
Doug

Click to expand...

From what I understand (talking to Canon) 'shot count' is absolute, independent of any file numbering permutations.

FWIW, all photos from the camera number perfectly sequentially from one folder to the next, just as you would expect from formatted cards. The numbering also includes any in-camera deleted files.

It was simple for me to work out but I also counted the files just to be sure. This shows up slightly less, because of in camera deleted files.

Put simply, there are 736 more 'shots' on the camera than files I have taken with it.

As pointed out this is 'unproveable'. I just have no reason to lie here, to you guys.

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I don't think anyone in this thread doubts what you've observed. At this point there isn't anything that you can do about it. If the camera is working OK, clean the sensor or have it cleaned, let the mystery go and move on. There are lots of things for you to go shoot.


Cheers,
Doug

Doug J said:

Peak freak said:

Doug J said:

If Canon service reported the shutter actuations after they performed the service, they might have inserted a memory card that was not formatted and had carry-over counts from a previous camera. The camera will pick up and start with the last number on the card if present.

Cheers,
Doug

Click to expand...

From what I understand (talking to Canon) 'shot count' is absolute, independent of any file numbering permutations.

FWIW, all photos from the camera number perfectly sequentially from one folder to the next, just as you would expect from formatted cards. The numbering also includes any in-camera deleted files.

It was simple for me to work out but I also counted the files just to be sure. This shows up slightly less, because of in camera deleted files.

Put simply, there are 736 more 'shots' on the camera than files I have taken with it.

As pointed out this is 'unproveable'. I just have no reason to lie here, to you guys.

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone in this thread doubts what you've observed. At this point there isn't anything that you can do about it. If the camera is working OK, clean the sensor or have it cleaned, let the mystery go and move on. There are lots of things for you to go shoot.

Cheers,
Doug

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Aye, you're right.

It's at Canon now, getting a sensor clean. Then I can feel like I am starting from new again.

Peak freak said:

Gerry Winterbourne said:

Peak freak said:

Gerry Winterbourne said:

That's very easy to check: just use LV a few times without taking any shots and see if the count changes.

The problem you have now is that some months have passed. You know that you haven't tampered with your record of shots taken but unfortunately that won't be taken as proof by anyone else.

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Thanks. I agree, I know how many shots I have taken, but can't really prove that.

How do I check the shot count to see if LV has an effect?

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Read the count. Put the camera in LV and use it as if you were going to take a photo (half-press for AF, for example) but don't actually take a shot. Switch the camera off, then back on and repeat. Do this a few times, then read the count again.

If LV has no effect the count will be the same as when you started; if it has an effect the count will go up.

Presumably you know how to check the count or you'd never have known to start this thread.

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Thanks. I don't know how to do the count.

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Try this https://www.pixsy.com/how-to-check-canon-shutter-count/

Probably a demo that lingered on a shelf without lens

Best Buy is notorious for that, cannot understand what a customer can see in a flipping mirror.

depending of their state, after one year they are all sold at various prices