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Z and AF-ON

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JacquesC

JacquesC

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The one issue that I've always encountered with mirrorless cameras was AF - specifically using AF-C. I am a BBF (back-button focus) shooter, meaning that I use the AF-ON button to initiate focus and use AF-C for both moving and stationary subjects. I've never used or required 3D tracking, or any other tracking for that matter. I use single point AF-C almost exclusively, only reverting to single point AF-S if a specific situation calls for that. This is my default shooting mode and has worked extremely well for me using my DSLR's for years.

When I started using mirrorless cameras this technique just did not work, much to my frustration and disappointment. The AF would hunt a little after acquiring focus, just enough to render many images out of focus, or soft at best.

Enter the Z7.

The very first thing I checked was it's AF-C behaviour, anything else was of secondary importance to me.

Suddenly AF-C + AF-ON works - just as it should and does with any high-end Nikon DSLR. It may not be quite as sensitive and fast in very low light as the latest high-end DSLR's, but it certainly works well enough in the low light situations that I may typically still want to shoot in. How well does tracking and/or face/eye detection work? I have no idea, haven't tried it and probably never will.

Gone is my frustration and happy days are here again.

I'm looking forward to many happy years with my new Z !
 
Thanks very important info for me. This has been one of the issues with my Fuji X-T2 and supports my decision to change mirrorless system.

/Rolf
 
JacquesC said:
The one issue that I've always encountered with mirrorless cameras was AF - specifically using AF-C. I am a BBF (back-button focus) shooter, meaning that I use the AF-ON button to initiate focus and use AF-C for both moving and stationary subjects. I've never used or required 3D tracking, or any other tracking for that matter. I use single point AF-C almost exclusively, only reverting to single point AF-S if a specific situation calls for that. This is my default shooting mode and has worked extremely well for me using my DSLR's for years.

When I started using mirrorless cameras this technique just did not work, much to my frustration and disappointment. The AF would hunt a little after acquiring focus, just enough to render many images out of focus, or soft at best.

Enter the Z7.

The very first thing I checked was it's AF-C behaviour, anything else was of secondary importance to me.

Suddenly AF-C + AF-ON works - just as it should and does with any high-end Nikon DSLR. It may not be quite as sensitive and fast in very low light as the latest high-end DSLR's, but it certainly works well enough in the low light situations that I may typically still want to shoot in. How well does tracking and/or face/eye detection work? I have no idea, haven't tried it and probably never will.

Gone is my frustration and happy days are here again.

I'm looking forward to many happy years with my new Z !
Click to expand...
I get that. I use the same configuration always i.e. AFC and AF-ON button.

Sometimes things just need to be simple and 'work'.

Kudos to Nikon for keeping this important feature set.

I am not getting a Z yet, quite happy with my D4. But if I do later, I also want that same feature set.

Thanks for the heads up and enjoy.
 
ImageAmateur said:
I get that. I use the same configuration always i.e. AFC and AF-ON button.

Sometimes things just need to be simple and 'work'.

Kudos to Nikon for keeping this important feature set.

I am not getting a Z yet, quite happy with my D4. But if I do later, I also want that same feature set.

Thanks for the heads up and enjoy.
Click to expand...
You're welcome!
 
Rolf_52 said:
Thanks very important info for me. This has been one of the issues with my Fuji X-T2 and supports my decision to change mirrorless system.

/Rolf
Click to expand...
I'm happy to help!

The X-T2 is brilliant in its own right and I really enjoyed using it - except for this. Unfortunately I had to sell my whole Fuji kit plus my D750 to fund the Z7, but such is life.

Coming from an X-T2 you will feel right at home with a Z camera. The controls, handling, and ergonomics are different and there are some minor features of the X-T2 that I will miss, but the Z is in many ways a much simpler camera to use - it just gets on with the job.

With the 24-70S lens mounted on it, the size is not far greater than the X-T2 + XF18-55 lens, which was quite a surprise to me. A little bit heavier, but still an ideal size & weight for travel and everyday use - a great bonus for me.

Oh, and here's another bonus: With the Z's eyepiece extended a bit towards the back there is no more nose smudging against the LCD, it actually stays nice and clean! :-) When using the LCD flipped up, it extends a bit to offer you a clear and unobstructed view of the LCD - perfect!

XT-2 + 18-55 lens vs. Z7 + 24-70 S
XT-2 + 18-55 lens vs. Z7 + 24-70 S

--
Jacques
apple-and-eve.com
 
Last edited:
JacquesC said:
The one issue that I've always encountered with mirrorless cameras was AF - specifically using AF-C. I am a BBF (back-button focus) shooter, meaning that I use the AF-ON button to initiate focus and use AF-C for both moving and stationary subjects. I've never used or required 3D tracking, or any other tracking for that matter. I use single point AF-C almost exclusively, only reverting to single point AF-S if a specific situation calls for that. This is my default shooting mode and has worked extremely well for me using my DSLR's for years.

When I started using mirrorless cameras this technique just did not work, much to my frustration and disappointment. The AF would hunt a little after acquiring focus, just enough to render many images out of focus, or soft at best.

Enter the Z7.

The very first thing I checked was it's AF-C behaviour, anything else was of secondary importance to me.

Suddenly AF-C + AF-ON works - just as it should and does with any high-end Nikon DSLR. It may not be quite as sensitive and fast in very low light as the latest high-end DSLR's, but it certainly works well enough in the low light situations that I may typically still want to shoot in. How well does tracking and/or face/eye detection work? I have no idea, haven't tried it and probably never will.

Gone is my frustration and happy days are here again.

I'm looking forward to many happy years with my new Z !
Click to expand...
This is how I use my D7200 and it's good to know that this works on the Z7. Did someone mention that AF-S single point was even more accurate for best focus for static objects, better than AF-C single point on the Z7?

t.
 
Good read on the topic of Z7’s focus ability....

Loading…

www.dpreview.com
 
tertier said:
... Did someone mention that AF-S single point was even more accurate for best focus for static objects, better than AF-C single point on the Z7?
Click to expand...
Yes thanks, I'm aware of this. Being primarily an AF-C shooter I did some quick tests between AF-C and AF-S because I wanted to see how big a difference there is. So far I could not detect any difference at all - images are pin sharp. It's early days for me and I will continue to test this with various lenses and lighting conditions. Right now I'm pretty chuffed with what I get using AF-C.

Where AF-S really shines is when you need very accurate focus on a small part of your subject. Coupled with the fine focus point (that's only available in AF-S), AF-S allows you to focus on exactly the point you intend to.

To make all of this easier and quicker, I've assigned AF-Area Mode to the Fn1 button. Now I can switch between AF-S and AF-C (or MF), and change the size of the AF point pretty quick by using the front and rear dials after pressing Fn1.

Slowly but surely I'm getting to know this camera.
 
Suits my shooting style with D7200. Thanks for sharing the experience.
 
I have been enjoying the Z7 for just over a month.

Yes BBFocus with AFC is a boon. But there remains the problem that we cannot customize a Function button to Focus+Focus Mode. I rely on this as a key feature on the D850 (and D500). This is vital IME for portraits and wildlife subjects. I can instantly switch from to single-point from the the BBF mode setting...

This gap in the Z7 has been posted in the Firmware thread and Thom Hogan condemns Nikon for it - I couldn't agree more as I keep missing shots
 
chambeshi said:
I have been enjoying the Z7 for just over a month.

Yes BBFocus with AFC is a boon. But there remains the problem that we cannot customize a Function button to Focus+Focus Mode. I rely on this as a key feature on the D850 (and D500). This is vital IME for portraits and wildlife subjects. I can instantly switch from to single-point from the the BBF mode setting...

This gap in the Z7 has been posted in the Firmware thread and Thom Hogan condemns Nikon for it - I couldn't agree more as I keep missing shots
Click to expand...
Yes I'm aware of this and really hope Nikon addresses this in a firmware update. It will make an already fabulous camera even better. If this was Fuji I would've had much more confidence that they will do it, but sadly Nikon is not in the habit of doings these kind of updates. In fact, it is this very attitude of Fujifilm that made it quite difficult for me to switch to only-Nikon.

Let's hope that Nikon adopts a much more customer-centric view of life.
 
JacquesC said:
With the 24-70S lens mounted on it, the size is not far greater than the X-T2 + XF18-55 lens, which was quite a surprise to me. A little bit heavier, but still an ideal size & weight for travel and everyday use - a great bonus for me.
Click to expand...
I'm a long time Nikon shooter but added a number of Fuji cameras to my gear list to be able to experience the advantages of mirrorless. X-Pro2 is sold. I still have the X-T2 and X-H1. Many would say it's minor but for me the X-H1 is a vast improvement over the X-T2.

The Z7 is just about the same size as the Fuji. I'm not sure what Fuji is doing as the both the Z7 and the Sonys are full frame and the same size as the X-H1. Mind you, I personally don't want a smaller camera. But there's still those over in the Fuji forum who wish for a smaller X-T model.

And my experience with Fuji is the same as yours... years and years of AF-ON/AF-C experience on the Nikon. Fuji just can't do it right. They finally got the AF-ON button right on the X-H1. But it still can't do AF-C properly.
 
michaeladawson said:
JacquesC said:
With the 24-70S lens mounted on it, the size is not far greater than the X-T2 + XF18-55 lens, which was quite a surprise to me. A little bit heavier, but still an ideal size & weight for travel and everyday use - a great bonus for me.
Click to expand...
I'm a long time Nikon shooter but added a number of Fuji cameras to my gear list to be able to experience the advantages of mirrorless. X-Pro2 is sold. I still have the X-T2 and X-H1. Many would say it's minor but for me the X-H1 is a vast improvement over the X-T2.

The Z7 is just about the same size as the Fuji. I'm not sure what Fuji is doing as the both the Z7 and the Sonys are full frame and the same size as the X-H1. Mind you, I personally don't want a smaller camera. But there's still those over in the Fuji forum who wish for a smaller X-T model.

And my experience with Fuji is the same as yours... years and years of AF-ON/AF-C experience on the Nikon. Fuji just can't do it right. They finally got the AF-ON button right on the X-H1. But it still can't do AF-C properly.
Click to expand...
I almost went for the X-H1, because it is a really nice camera and feels very good in the hand.

I've been shooting Nikon and Fuji side by side for about four years. I really enjoyed the Fujis and it was a tough decision for me to sell my Fuji gear - and my D750. But in the end what made me switch to the Z7 completely was:

1. A full-frame body in roughly the same size and weight as a crop-sensor body.

2. AF-C + AF-ON that works the way it should. This was a biggie for me.

3. Battery life which is quite good considering it's mirrorless, and noticeably better than Fuji.

4. IBIS - my primes suddenly became useable to me!

5. Sharing of chargers, batteries, and lenses between me and my wife, especially when we're travelling.

6. No more endless arguing with myself about which camera to take when going somewhere. Having more than one system became more of a problem than a solution to me.

7. All of the above in mirrorless form, something that I really enjoy.

It's a lot of money to spend so I had to get this right, it cost me a number of sleepless nights, but thankfully it turned out very well for me.
 
Reassuring to hear Jacques. Precisely what I was hoping for when I preordered my Z6 with FTZ adapter and S24-70 f4 zoom and S35 f1.8.

/Rolf
 
JacquesC said:
michaeladawson said:
JacquesC said:
With the 24-70S lens mounted on it, the size is not far greater than the X-T2 + XF18-55 lens, which was quite a surprise to me. A little bit heavier, but still an ideal size & weight for travel and everyday use - a great bonus for me.
Click to expand...
I'm a long time Nikon shooter but added a number of Fuji cameras to my gear list to be able to experience the advantages of mirrorless. X-Pro2 is sold. I still have the X-T2 and X-H1. Many would say it's minor but for me the X-H1 is a vast improvement over the X-T2.

The Z7 is just about the same size as the Fuji. I'm not sure what Fuji is doing as the both the Z7 and the Sonys are full frame and the same size as the X-H1. Mind you, I personally don't want a smaller camera. But there's still those over in the Fuji forum who wish for a smaller X-T model.

And my experience with Fuji is the same as yours... years and years of AF-ON/AF-C experience on the Nikon. Fuji just can't do it right. They finally got the AF-ON button right on the X-H1. But it still can't do AF-C properly.
Click to expand...
I almost went for the X-H1, because it is a really nice camera and feels very good in the hand.

I've been shooting Nikon and Fuji side by side for about four years. I really enjoyed the Fujis and it was a tough decision for me to sell my Fuji gear - and my D750. But in the end what made me switch to the Z7 completely was:

1. A full-frame body in roughly the same size and weight as a crop-sensor body.

2. AF-C + AF-ON that works the way it should. This was a biggie for me.

3. Battery life which is quite good considering it's mirrorless, and noticeably better than Fuji.

4. IBIS - my primes suddenly became useable to me!

5. Sharing of chargers, batteries, and lenses between me and my wife, especially when we're travelling.

6. No more endless arguing with myself about which camera to take when going somewhere. Having more than one system became more of a problem than a solution to me.

7. All of the above in mirrorless form, something that I really enjoy.

It's a lot of money to spend so I had to get this right, it cost me a number of sleepless nights, but thankfully it turned out very well for me.
Click to expand...
Your list of Sound & Solid reasons overlap many of mine. I add Focus-Peaking through the viewfinder and the World beating EVF of the Z7.

Investing in the fascinating potential of the Z-mount that still maintains decades of F-Nikon fit compatibility is yet another Biggie! Remarkable to contemplate, but the fact is these Nikon DSLRs and MILCs will only get better.... IMHO this is all about the Greater Nikon Ecosystem

I often say that investing in more than 1 camera system is a no-go area (to me). I have already spent more than enough on Nikkors! And the optics are the core of photography, including the cost and longevity of lenses relative to cameras.
 
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JacquesC said:
Suddenly AF-C + AF-ON works - just as it should and does with any high-end Nikon DSLR.
Click to expand...
While the feature is indeed there the part that's missing is any confirmation that focus has been achieved. On a DSLR the round focus dot (some folks call it a meatball) appears in the lower left corner and on my Nikon 1 V1 the focus square changes to green. On the Z7 there's no confirmation so you can only pray that where the single focus spot is placed, the focus is done.

My AF-C + AF-ON method is to press the AF-ON until focus is achieved and then I let go so the focus stays where I put it until I press it again. If the subject is moving I press and don't let go.
 
Russell Proulx said:
JacquesC said:
Suddenly AF-C + AF-ON works - just as it should and does with any high-end Nikon DSLR.
Click to expand...
While the feature is indeed there the part that's missing is any confirmation that focus has been achieved. On a DSLR the round focus dot (some folks call it a meatball) appears in the lower left corner and on my Nikon 1 V1 the focus square changes to green. On the Z7 there's no confirmation so you can only pray that where the single focus spot is placed, the focus is done.
Click to expand...
That's interesting. I never pay attention to that circle or the two triangles on either side of it.

I generally look at the focus point itself. Doesn't it illuminate or turn green or give some other indication on Z7 that focus is acquired?
Russell Proulx said:
My AF-C + AF-ON method is to press the AF-ON until focus is achieved and then I let go so the focus stays where I put it until I press it again. If the subject is moving I press and don't let go.
Click to expand...
 
Forgive a simple question: why would you (and others who chimed in) use AF-C for static subjects? Just to simplify use and not worry about choosing between C and S?
 
Last edited:
Russell Proulx said:
While the feature is indeed there the part that's missing is any confirmation that focus has been achieved. On a DSLR the round focus dot (some folks call it a meatball) appears in the lower left corner and on my Nikon 1 V1 the focus square changes to green. On the Z7 there's no confirmation so you can only pray that where the single focus spot is placed, the focus is done.
Click to expand...
Yes, the lack of confirmation is somewhat annoying and I hope Nikon addresses that in a firmware update. So far I've had no trouble with OOF images.
 
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