Old point-and-shoot camera versus smartphone

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Martine10 said:

I want to get into photography, but I decided to wait until my birthday in 6 months to buy a decent camera. After some research, I think a DSLR would be better for me but I've never used one and they're kind of intimidating. Is it worth buying a inexpensive point-and-shoot and see what happens before buying more expensive equipment?

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A true 'point and shoot' is just that -- hardly any controls and most of them are no better than a decent phone camera. Unfortunately the point and shoot market is almost dead because of the way phones have taken over for casual photography.

DSLRs can be intimidating if you want to go beyond using them in fully automatic mode -- and if you don't then why buy one?

Funnily enough the most basic entry level DSLRs can be more frustrating than some more advanced ones because you can find yourself pressing two or three buttons and dials to change a single setting.

How much (and what sort of) money are you looking to spend?

Also, what sort of subject matter appeals to you? That will affect the choice of camera.

As well as DSLRs there are:

• 'bridge' cameras -- these look like DSLRs but have fixed lenses, generally with a big zoom range and fairly user friendly controls
• 'mirrorless' cameras -- you can change the lenses the same way as in DSLRs but they have electronic viewfinders that have advantages for beginners in particular.
• 'advanced compacts' -- also a smaller group than before phones moved in, but they are capable of better results than phones, have proper controls and are less heavy and bulky than the other options.

I think that's a good idea.

An old, but inexpensive fixed lens camera should give you more knobs and dials to play with than a newer one for the same price. After a few months, you'll have got used to managing your own photos (which a phone does for you) on your computer, and you'll know what annoys you about your camera. That will help you decide on the replacement.

I've been told that around 1000 euros (1100 USD, more or less) would be a good place to start for a DSLR...which is why I'm a little worried to go right into that.

I'm interested in landscapes, urban photography, and portraits. At some point I would also like to try night photography and maybe even astronomy photography, which I guess requires specific lenses.
TBH, I'm not really sure what it is I need exactly. But I'm sure I will end up being frustrated by a lack of freedom with settings. Mirrorless cameras sound like a good option for me, from what you've said! Are there any reasons I might still prefer a DSLR?

I do like the idea of starting smaller first while having control over the settings. How much do you think I should invest in it? Is buying used wise?

Martine10 said:

I do like the idea of starting smaller first while having control over the settings. How much do you think I should invest in it? Is buying used wise?

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Well, with 300€/$, you can get a good second hand camera. Even a dslr or mirrorless with kit lens. They release a new model almost every year, so even three year old model (= almost new) are already very affordable.

One of those or a compact camera with manual settigns will do.

If you are not sure what to get, don't invest too much. Just get a second hand one, and you will probably sell it for the same price when you upgrade / know better what you want.

Martine10 said:

I've been told that around 1000 euros (1100 USD, more or less) would be a good place to start for a DSLR...which is why I'm a little worried to go right into that.

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It is a 'good place to start' for most types of camera, but you can get away with spending much less.

Martine10 said:

I'm interested in landscapes, urban photography, and portraits.

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None of which are very demanding.

Martine10 said:

At some point I would also like to try night photography and maybe even astronomy photography, which I guessrequires specific lenses.

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Ideally, but you'd be surprised how far even a decent advanced compact with a fastish fixed lens will take you.

Martine10 said:

TBH, I'm not really sure what it is I need exactly. But I'm sure I will end up being frustrated by a lack of freedom with settings. Mirrorless cameras sound like a good option for me, from what you've said! Are there any reasons I might still prefer a DSLR?

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For your uses I can't see any. The only advantage of the Nikon/Canon DSLRs is that they have a huge choice of lenses, many of them very competitively priced. However, if you go for mirrorless you'll have the option to buy camerás that can use many of these via adapters. Beware, some makes/models adapt easier than others.

I think someone has already suggested the Panasonic LX100. Second hand it should come in at a fraction of your budget and give you all the controls you need to learn. Use it for six months and you'll be in a position to make informed decisions about what, if anything, you need to replace it.

if you really want to buy an interchangeable lens camera then choosing becomes a bit harder, so post back.

A fixed lens will definitely be enough at first, and I'll see if I need to change in 6 months. I'll look into your suggestion. Thank you for your help!

Martine10 said:

I've been told that around 1000 euros (1100 USD, more or less) would be a good place to start for a DSLR...which is why I'm a little worried to go right into that.

Martine10 wrote:

I do like the idea of starting smaller first while having control over the settings. How much do you think I should invest in it? Is buying used wise?

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You can do better than that.

I recommend everybody who comes here for advice to skip the big, heavy expensive DSLRs and go mirrorless.

If you spend around 500-600, you can have a Panasonic or Olympus M4/3 with a good kit lens.

Don't let the size fool you. These cameras take professional pictures if you know what you're doing, which means you have a long, long learning curve before you 'outgrow' these cameras - if you do so at all.

They go from fully automatic to full manual and everything in between. Face-recognition autofocus (a face in the image is automatically the focus point), to fully manual focus, and many options in between.

These cameras are small, meaning they're fun to take along; and they are powerful.

What you will find most above your point-and-shoot and your smartphone, is the possibility of blurring the background, bringing out your subject. Apart from that, total control over the settings gives you many options for many types of photography.

Check out an Olympus Pen E-PL8 (or 9); or the Olympus OM-D E-M10 or a Panasonic G / GX80 or GX90 (or 95) camera.

With a powerful kit lens, you can leave you with a third of your budget intact.

If you have been told you need a big, heavy camera to take good photo's - this is simply not true. Cameras are so good and so powerful that the limitation is not in the camera but in the person holding it - which means you can learn a lot and this is fun.

You can get some good deals if you buy used from a reputable dealer, such as Wex in the UK. Particularly if you go for a model that is a bit older than the latest.

I suggest you look at mirrorless rather than DSLR - under Compact System Cameras in the link above - and a zoom lens from slightly wide to slightly telephoto (aka 'standard zoom').

The DPReview buying guides are a good source of info.

If your phone does not have (good) camera, (and you want a "camera"), then for a mere $14, I absolutely do recommend you get a BATTERY & CHARGER for your current camera because it should work FINE for you to get STARTED.

It is indeed older and does not have (P/A/S/M) controls, but still should allow you to explore and develop good "composition" skills, (which is the MOST IMPORTANT element of an image anyway.

Here are TWO LINKS to both battery & charger:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Ch...h=item3fae84c2c3:g:yjwAAOSw-sZa3ZOL:rk:1:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SLB-1137-Battery-Charger-BONUS-for-Samsung-Digimax-L74-NV11-NV30-NV40-NV24HD/152156060416?hash=item236d353b00:g:VbIAAOSwgTJbKsDV:rk:2f:0

You may later want to expand you capabilites ... but I suggest "MirrorLess" cameras, (dSLR's are a 60+yo technology that is being replaced by ML technology because they can offer many more options & features not possible w/ dSLR inherent "mirror" limitations).

Personally I suggest a "bridge" camera because they are a perfect "compromise" of the advantages of both larger and small sensors. (higher IQ than "smallest" sensors, but longer "TELE" lens than possible w/ "larger" sensors)

The Pansonic/Lumix FZ-1000 has a fixed lens that is Wider/Longer/FASTER than typical "kit" lenses.

The "fixed" lens has a "leaf" shutter that will allow SUN-light fill-flash up to 20'+, compared to only about 3-4' w/ "focal-plane" shutters necessary on any Interchangeable-Lens-Cameras, (ILC).

It is BY FAR the BEST VALUE on the market for $600. new, (<$500 used) ... And it even has 4K-video.


w/ OUT flash


w/ FLASH (in SUN-light)


w/ OUT flash


w/ FLASH (to DARKEN background)


w/ FLASH ... (again to DARKEN BACKGROUND in SUN-light)


800mm-EFL

A new smart phone still can't beat the old P&S LX100 for 4K video and photo. But the camera phone may get better in a couple of years, and beat the LX100 someday.

There is a old Sony RX1 point and shoot that's a FF camera with a fixed lens. With the incamera editing of RX1 it's a hard P&S to beat.

We all learn in different ways, but speaking personally I'm so glad my first digital camera had P, A, S, M modes. They were the springboard that helped me understand the whole aspect of taking control of the camera settings. I would not consider anything without those modes as a suitable entry-level camera for anyone wanting to learn from and progress to something better. Pity I gave that old camera to a charity shop a few months ago, else you could have had it......

You convinced me: I'll go for a mirrorless, and I ordered a charger for my Samsung NV24HD, which has a manual mode according to the user manual!

Martine10 said:

Hey everyone!

I want to get into photography, but I decided to wait until my birthday in 6 months to buy a decent camera. A relative gave me their Samsung NV24HD, a 10 years old point-and-shoot, but I have to buy a charger for it and according to them, it's not worth it because my smartphone would take better pictures. However, all I have is a Samsung Galaxy A3 and it takes really bad pictures, I can't change any settings...

So which is better? After some research, I think a DSLR would be better for me but I've never used one and they're kind of intimidating. Is it worth buying a inexpensive point-and-shoot and see what happens before buying more expensive equipment?

Thanks for the help

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The third option is to get an old, used, cheap DSLR, which will give you a lot more control, colour accuracy, will be much faster to use and can capture specialty subjects like with ultra wide lenses or moving objects. My Canon 30D still runs rings around my phone.

The first objection is size, but that can also mean more comfortable to hold, and with small lenses like the Canon 24mm or 40mm stm, the overall package is not that huge.

Good luck!

photosen said:

Martine10 said:

Hey everyone!

I want to get into photography, but I decided to wait until my birthday in 6 months to buy a decent camera. A relative gave me their Samsung NV24HD, a 10 years old point-and-shoot, but I have to buy a charger for it and according to them, it's not worth it because my smartphone would take better pictures. However, all I have is a Samsung Galaxy A3 and it takes really bad pictures, I can't change any settings...

So which is better? After some research, I think a DSLR would be better for me but I've never used one and they're kind of intimidating. Is it worth buying a inexpensive point-and-shoot and see what happens before buying more expensive equipment?

Thanks for the help

Click to expand...

The third option is to get an old, used, cheap DSLR,

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+1

IMHO a great idea!

Take care & Happy Shooting!

photosen said:

which will give you a lot more control, colour accuracy, will be much faster to use and can capture specialty subjects like with ultra wide lenses or moving objects. My Canon 30D still runs rings around my phone.

The first objection is size, but that can also mean more comfortable to hold, and with small lenses like the Canon 24mm or 40mm stm, the overall package is not that huge.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Martine10 said:

Hey everyone!

I want to get into photography, but I decided to wait until my birthday in 6 months to buy a decent camera. A relative gave me their Samsung NV24HD, a 10 years old point-and-shoot, but I have to buy a charger for it and according to them, it's not worth it because my smartphone would take better pictures. However, all I have is a Samsung Galaxy A3 and it takes really bad pictures, I can't change any settings...

So which is better? After some research, I think a DSLR would be better for me but I've never used one and they're kind of intimidating. Is it worth buying a inexpensive point-and-shoot and see what happens before buying more expensive equipment?

Thanks for the help

Click to expand...

Ok. Two ideas . . .

Learning to ride a bike with a training wheel still attached.

And a scratch you didn't know was there.

Ok.

Growing up, my dad was constantly giving me his old SLR film camera. I learned how to use it, but wasn't much into taking pictures.

Then I became a father and I suddenly wanted to take pictures of my kid.

But this digital thing came along, so I ended up going with point-and-shoot cameras. I was at least lucky enough to use ones with a bit of manual control with PASM exposure modes.

I was happily shooting along getting what I thought was nice pictures of my kid. And having a lot of fun at it.

And then my dad ended up getting me a dSLR camera.

Well. I picked it up and started using it. And the 1st thing I realized was that the pictures I was taking were not turning out very well.

I thought I'd be better at it, having used a point-and-shoot camera for quite some time.

But . . . it was like I was learning to ride a bike with a training wheel still attached.

Just because one of the training wheel was not there doesn't mean that I was free to push myself to learn.

No matter how hard I pushed, the limitations of the slow camera with a small sensor restricted how far I could push exploring.

No matter how much I pushed my point-and-shoot cameras, I was never in the situation where I had too shallow a depth of field. So I'd always use the widest aperture possible. Where as . . . when I got a dSLR . . . I often found that I was taking pictures with too shallow a depth of field. The bigger sensor on the dSLR meant that there was still a lot for me to learn / re-learn and get familiar with.

And . . . as soon as I got into learning this . . . I realized that a lot more decisions and capability were now available to me with a dSLR camera in my hands than when I was shooting with a compact camera.

It suddenly dawned on me that there was a whole lot of itch that I didn't realize (or had forgotten) was there, having shot with a compact camera for so long.

Take care & Happy Shooting!