EFCS on SLTs - avoid with high shutter speeds?

Marco Cinnirella · Oct 23, 2018

I tend to always leave EFCS on as I figure it prolongs shutter life, reduces shutter shock and also leads to a quieter shutter sound. However I got bitten recently using a Fuji X-H1 with EFCS turned on - I shot some shots outdoors with high shutter speeds over 1/2000 and a fast lens wide open and experienced some weirdness with the way the blurred background was rendered, with 'bokeh balls' cut in half and some ghosting of elements.

Just wondered if this has also been noted when using EFCS on the SLTs ? I know the manuals have some obscure warning about EFCS with fast lenses and high shutter speeds, but I have tended to forget about it when using my a99 and a99ii and don't recall seeing any issues with the bokeh.

QuietOC · Oct 23, 2018

Marco Cinnirella said:
I tend to always leave EFCS on as I figure it prolongs shutter life, reduces shutter shock and also leads to a quieter shutter sound. However I got bitten recently using a Fuji X-H1 with EFCS turned on - I shot some shots outdoors with high shutter speeds over 1/2000 and a fast lens wide open and experienced some weirdness with the way the blurred background was rendered, with 'bokeh balls' cut in half and some ghosting of elements.

Just wondered if this has also been noted when using EFCS on the SLTs ? I know the manuals have some obscure warning about EFCS with fast lenses and high shutter speeds, but I have tended to forget about it when using my a99 and a99ii and don't recall seeing any issues with the bokeh.

It is easy to find that effect when there are pulsed light sources like cheap LEDs being imaged.

Some EFCS discussion here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4319604

Marco Cinnirella · Oct 23, 2018

QuietOC said:
Marco Cinnirella said:

I tend to always leave EFCS on as I figure it prolongs shutter life, reduces shutter shock and also leads to a quieter shutter sound. However I got bitten recently using a Fuji X-H1 with EFCS turned on - I shot some shots outdoors with high shutter speeds over 1/2000 and a fast lens wide open and experienced some weirdness with the way the blurred background was rendered, with 'bokeh balls' cut in half and some ghosting of elements.

Just wondered if this has also been noted when using EFCS on the SLTs ? I know the manuals have some obscure warning about EFCS with fast lenses and high shutter speeds, but I have tended to forget about it when using my a99 and a99ii and don't recall seeing any issues with the bokeh.

Click to expand...

It is easy to find that effect when there are pulsed light sources like cheap LEDs being imaged.

Some EFCS discussion here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4319604

Well in this case it was an outdoor shot

Marco Cinnirella · Oct 23, 2018

QuietOC said:
Marco Cinnirella said:

I tend to always leave EFCS on as I figure it prolongs shutter life, reduces shutter shock and also leads to a quieter shutter sound. However I got bitten recently using a Fuji X-H1 with EFCS turned on - I shot some shots outdoors with high shutter speeds over 1/2000 and a fast lens wide open and experienced some weirdness with the way the blurred background was rendered, with 'bokeh balls' cut in half and some ghosting of elements.

Just wondered if this has also been noted when using EFCS on the SLTs ? I know the manuals have some obscure warning about EFCS with fast lenses and high shutter speeds, but I have tended to forget about it when using my a99 and a99ii and don't recall seeing any issues with the bokeh.

Click to expand...

It is easy to find that effect when there are pulsed light sources like cheap LEDs being imaged.

Some EFCS discussion here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4319604

Yeah I had heard of the bokeh ball slicing effect before but not seen ghosting/double image before - that could be caused by e-shutter I guess or maybe IBIS when used with very high shutter speed

sybersitizen · Oct 23, 2018

Marco Cinnirella said:
... I got bitten recently using a Fuji X-H1 with EFCS turned on - I shot some shots outdoors with high shutter speeds over 1/2000 and a fast lens wide open and experienced some weirdness with the way the blurred background was rendered, with 'bokeh balls' cut in half and some ghosting of elements.

Just wondered if this has also been noted when using EFCS on the SLTs ?

Yes, definitely. I've demonstrated examples of that with an A99 and Minolta 200mm.

Marco Cinnirella said:
I know the manuals have some obscure warning about EFCS with fast lenses and high shutter speeds, but I have tended to forget about it when using my a99 and a99ii and don't recall seeing any issues with the bokeh.

It can happen with the right (wrong?) combination of lens, aperture, and shutter speed.

EFCS Off

EFCS on

EFCS Off

EFCS On

Notice that in some areas of the frame things might not be fully cut off, but instead obtain gradual shading ... a 3D look.

Michael Fritzen · Oct 24, 2018

Hi,

EFCS is also activated on my A99II, as it was also on my previous A99.

Other than bokeh I've noticed on some panned sports shots some strange look, similar to the known doubled contour when shooting with flash when both ambient light and flash create an image.

However I've never investigated the issue further. My "explanations" were that: a) an effect caused by the IBIS in its attempt to compensate for the panning move (at the end of the move); or b) I ended the panning move too early, during the last exposure fired.

But now I'm suspecting that also EFCS could contribute. How does it work? Opening linewise the sensor or instantly, at once? What bears the question how fast is "instantly" if this is the case? Or am I on the wrong track here?

Marco Cinnirella · Oct 24, 2018

Michael Fritzen said:
Hi,

EFCS is also activated on my A99II, as it was also on my previous A99.

Other than bokeh I've noticed on some panned sports shots some strange look, similar to the known doubled contour when shooting with flash when both ambient light and flash create an image.

However I've never investigated the issue further. My "explanations" were that: a) an effect caused by the IBIS in its attempt to compensate for the panning move (at the end of the move); or b) I ended the panning move too early, during the last exposure fired.

But now I'm suspecting that also EFCS could contribute. How does it work? Opening linewise the sensor or instantly, at once? What bears the question how fast is "instantly" if this is the case? Or am I on the wrong track here?

Haven't fully digested the technical aspects behind this but I think it is also similar to when cameras offer a fully electronic shutter to offer shutter speeds higher than the mechanical shutter can achieve (i.e. some mirrorless cameras). In such circs I think that sometimes some kind of weird artefacts can result that are similar to rolling shutter effects. Not the same as the bokeh ball cutting discussed earlier, which is purely an EFCS issue. But suffice it to say, that EFCS + e-shutter can be probematic. For us SLT users we only have to worry about EFCS but there is also the issue of IBIS at high shutter speeds. One of the things I miss on the a99 and a99ii from earlier Sony models was a physical switch to turn on and off the SSS.

Lensmate · Oct 24, 2018

sybersitizen said:
Marco Cinnirella said:

... I got bitten recently using a Fuji X-H1 with EFCS turned on - I shot some shots outdoors with high shutter speeds over 1/2000 and a fast lens wide open and experienced some weirdness with the way the blurred background was rendered, with 'bokeh balls' cut in half and some ghosting of elements.

Just wondered if this has also been noted when using EFCS on the SLTs ?

Click to expand...

Yes, definitely. I've demonstrated examples of that with an A99 and Minolta 200mm.

sybersitizen said:

I know the manuals have some obscure warning about EFCS with fast lenses and high shutter speeds, but I have tended to forget about it when using my a99 and a99ii and don't recall seeing any issues with the bokeh.

Click to expand...

It can happen with the right (wrong?) combination of lens, aperture, and shutter speed.

EFCS Off

EFCS on

EFCS Off

EFCS On

Notice that in some areas of the frame things might not be fully cut off, but instead obtain gradual shading ... a 3D look.

Hard not to like those waxing and waning moon shots... :0

-Martin P

Martin Passchier

Explore Martin Passchier’s 973 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Michael Fritzen · Oct 24, 2018

At least if there was a list with the ill effects of EFCS and IBIS well documented... like those several pages of the leaflet from the medication.

ActionPhotoPassion · Oct 24, 2018

Marco Cinnirella said:
I tend to always leave EFCS on as I figure it prolongs shutter life, reduces shutter shock and also leads to a quieter shutter sound. However I got bitten recently using a Fuji X-H1 with EFCS turned on - I shot some shots outdoors with high shutter speeds over 1/2000 and a fast lens wide open and experienced some weirdness with the way the blurred background was rendered, with 'bokeh balls' cut in half and some ghosting of elements.

Just wondered if this has also been noted when using EFCS on the SLTs ? I know the manuals have some obscure warning about EFCS with fast lenses and high shutter speeds, but I have tended to forget about it when using my a99 and a99ii and don't recall seeing any issues with the bokeh.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcoc/
"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

Do you think it could be what I encountered in this thread ?

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

Marco Cinnirella · Oct 25, 2018

ActionPhotoPassion said:
Marco Cinnirella said:

I tend to always leave EFCS on as I figure it prolongs shutter life, reduces shutter shock and also leads to a quieter shutter sound. However I got bitten recently using a Fuji X-H1 with EFCS turned on - I shot some shots outdoors with high shutter speeds over 1/2000 and a fast lens wide open and experienced some weirdness with the way the blurred background was rendered, with 'bokeh balls' cut in half and some ghosting of elements.

Just wondered if this has also been noted when using EFCS on the SLTs ? I know the manuals have some obscure warning about EFCS with fast lenses and high shutter speeds, but I have tended to forget about it when using my a99 and a99ii and don't recall seeing any issues with the bokeh.

Click to expand...

Do you think it could be what I encountered in this thread ?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4326861

Yup, that could be an EFCS issue or an issue caused by panning while using IBIS

Snowfella · Oct 25, 2018

Shooting one of Sony's first EFCS camera's in the way of an A77 I tend to fall foul of the limitations time and time again...especially the poor implementation at high shutter speeds.
Can spend weeks at an end without seeing it but then out of the blue I get a bright subject in daylight that boosts shutter speed up towards 1/2000 or higher and the output ends up underexposed or with banding.
Ar 8FPS I generally notice it when the "slideshow" as I shoot a burst is a fair bit darker than what I saw in the viewfinder, in extreme situations also with some rather significant banding across the frame.

This was meant to be a long distance ID shot in blazing sunlight, could see wing markings in the viewfinder but the result speaks for itself...under exposed and banding.

--

Johan Olsson

Explore Johan Olsson’s 985 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Marco Cinnirella · Oct 25, 2018

Snowfella said:
Shooting one of Sony's first EFCS camera's in the way of an A77 I tend to fall foul of the limitations time and time again...especially the poor implementation at high shutter speeds.
Can spend weeks at an end without seeing it but then out of the blue I get a bright subject in daylight that boosts shutter speed up towards 1/2000 or higher and the output ends up underexposed or with banding.
Ar 8FPS I generally notice it when the "slideshow" as I shoot a burst is a fair bit darker than what I saw in the viewfinder, in extreme situations also with some rather significant banding across the frame.

This was meant to be a long distance ID shot in blazing sunlight, could see wing markings in the viewfinder but the result speaks for itself...under exposed and banding.

Good example of banding caused by uneven exposure - a known issue with EFCS and fast shutter speeds

--

Marco Cinnirella

Explore Marco Cinnirella’s 476 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

ActionPhotoPassion · Oct 25, 2018

Wow so visible...

BTW we also see that the sensor needs a cleaning

Mine of A58 needs it too.

sybersitizen · Oct 25, 2018

Marco Cinnirella said:
Snowfella said:

Shooting one of Sony's first EFCS camera's in the way of an A77 I tend to fall foul of the limitations time and time again...especially the poor implementation at high shutter speeds.

Click to expand...

Good example of banding caused by uneven exposure - a known issue with EFCS and fast shutter speeds

It's only well known to produce blatant bands like that under natural light with the A77 - mine does that too. EFCS implementation got better after that ... but it will still produce distinct bands under many forms of artificial light due to interference patterns between the light pulse rate and the sensor read rate.

Marco Cinnirella · Oct 25, 2018

sybersitizen said:
Marco Cinnirella said:

Snowfella said:

Shooting one of Sony's first EFCS camera's in the way of an A77 I tend to fall foul of the limitations time and time again...especially the poor implementation at high shutter speeds.

Click to expand...

Good example of banding caused by uneven exposure - a known issue with EFCS and fast shutter speeds

Click to expand...

It's only well known to produce blatant bands like that under natural light with the A77 - mine does that too. EFCS implementation got better after that ... but it will still produce distinct bands under many forms of artificial light due to interference patterns between the light pulse rate and the sensor read rate.

Thanks for that - I have numerous cameras with EFCS - a99, a99ii, Fuji X-H1, and no real idea of whether there are differences between them as to how prone the EFCS implementation is to causing problems like this. Same about IBIS - I have cameras featuring IBIS from three different manufacturers (Sony, Olympus and Fuji) and no idea if the IBIS implementation can sometimes cause issues with things like panning or high shutter speeds (when of course it is not needed but sometimes one forgets it is turned on)

--

Marco Cinnirella

Explore Marco Cinnirella’s 476 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

Michael Fritzen · Oct 25, 2018

Hi,

just looking the wikepedia entries for EFCS (which actually redirect to Focal Plane Shutter - FPS) one discovers that FPS also isn't w/o issues when shooting (fast) moving subjects because of the slit exposure at short exposure times. What ultimately bears the question how fare possible combined effects.

Snowfella · Oct 26, 2018

It needed it well over a year ago, now it's well overdue to say the least.

EXX · Oct 26, 2018

I have shot frequently with fast shutter speeds on my A77II with EFCS on (I have never switched it off until now), on both the Minolta AF 80-2000mm F2.8 HS APO G and the Minolta AF 500mm F8 Reflex. Never had an issue with this.

Example:

Maybe the 500 Reflex is not affected because it has no aperture blades, but this is just an idea.

EFCS on SLTs - avoid with high shutter speeds?

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Attachments

Keyboard shortcuts