Few questions about models

DL87 said:

Few amateurs questions.

1. Is it bad if I shoot only female models or does it matter?

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That's a bit odd question here, but the answer depends entirely on what or for whom are you shooting. You show what you want to shoot and niche down to.

If you want to niche down to women's fashion, glamour, fashion/beauty or boudoir, for example, then it's okay. If you want to shoot, or want to work with clients that need images of male headshots, fashion, etc, then it would obviously be an issue.

DL87 said:

2. A model wanted to have a TFP portrait session with me but I realized that he didnt show up and ruined my studio session few years ago. Since then, we didnt contact each other for few years. Do I need to care about what he did or ignore his past?

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Of course you need to care about it if your earnings depend on it, but it's up to you.
Not showing up on set is not professional behaviour. A model doing that once, shame on him/her. The same model doing that twice, shame on you.

DL87 said:

3. Few friends asked me to take pics of them for their uses but not beneficial for my uses. Should I ask them for payments?

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It's up to you and the nature of your friendship with those people. It would also depend on what those pictures are going to be used for. Commercially or not?
Personally I don't see any harm in doing favours for real friends. Real friends don't ask for favours without being willing to return the favour some day.
Besides, you self-identify as an amateur above. So don't be a knob/d-bag.

DL87 said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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Possible commercial use of the photos.

DL87 said:

5. For professional photography or project uses, how and where can I find models from? (Except Model Mayhem, Craigslist, and Facebook) Do I need to find a model agency directly?

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It depends on your situation. Are we talking about an acute need for a model, or a long term need?
You can try finding an agency, too, but if it's about the latter need, you could/should start building your professional network which includes models and maybe even agencies. You can do that IRL wherever you move around, in SoMe sites like LinkedIn, etc. When you've got your own network, it's also easier to avoid the cases where the model won't show up when they're supposed to.

DL87 said:

6. For the test shooting, do I need to ask a model directly or model agency? Can agency model work with me without an agency's permission?

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It depends on the agreement the model has with the agency.

You seem to be capable of expressing yourself in writing. I bet you can do the same using your mouth and ears. So I suggest you go to a model and/or agency and talk to him/her/them directly and figure things out. Use common sense.
Be clear about your intentions, when you're going to shoot, where, for what, and for how long. It's all pretty easily figure-outable. Put your boots on the ground and start hustling.

Hi DL, I'll take a stab at them and as always, I'm looking forward to hearing everybody else's answers too.

DL87 said:

Few amateurs questions.

1. Is it bad if I shoot only female models or does it matter?

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It depends on your specialty. Many fashion and glamour photographers work with only women. Lifestyle and other advertising photographers would really have to have both genders and all ages for a solid book. But if you're an amateur, who would care?

DL87 said:

2. A model wanted to have a TFP portrait session with me but I realized that he didnt show up and ruined my studio session few years ago. Since then, we didnt contact each other for few years. Do I need to care about what he did or ignore his past?

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I never book no-shows again. Once I forgot and did it and they no-showed a second time.

DL87 said:

3. Few friends asked me to take pics of them for their uses but not beneficial for my uses. Should I ask them for payments?

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Then you wouldn't be an amateur anymore. The big step from amateur to professional should be a whole different topic.

DL87 said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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The problem would be that you didn't have a release. Your model could claim that you agreed to almost anything. Or - and this happens more often than you might guess - somebody else could claim to be the model and take some action against you.

DL87 said:

5. For professional photography or project uses, how and where can I find models from? (Except Model Mayhem, Craigslist, and Facebook) Do I need to find a model agency directly?

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Yes. But as an amateur, you're better off on the web.

DL87 said:

6. For the test shooting, do I need to ask a model directly or model agency? Can agency model work with me without an agency's permission?

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If you have a solid portfolio, agency is far better. If you sneak around, the model might not be able to use your photo in the portfolio they use for the biggest and best jobs. This is the best advertising you'll ever have and one of the best reasons to use agency models in the first place.

Best of luck here. It sounds like you're on the edge of amateur vs professional and that's a very tough place to be.

DL87 said:

Few amateurs questions.

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Are you an amateur photographer or trying to run a business? The answer may differ between the two.

DL87 said:

1. Is it bad if I shoot only female models or does it matter?

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If you are an amateur, then shoot whatever interests you.

If you are running a photography business, then it's not bad if it's inline with your business plan. If you don't have a business plan, then you may wish to develop one.

DL87 said:

2. A model wanted to have a TFP portrait session with me but I realized that he didnt show up and ruined my studio session few years ago. Since then, we didnt contact each other for few years. Do I need to care about what he did or ignore his past?

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The issue here is that your only experience with the model suggests he is unreliable.

Personally, I would not consider an unreliable model if I had an alternative.

DL87 said:

3. Few friends asked me to take pics of them for their uses but not beneficial for my uses. Should I ask them for payments?

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If you are an amateur, then do whatever you like.

If you are running a business, then you need to do a cost/benefit analysis.

On one hand you will gain some additional experience. I don't know you background so I can't tell you whether or not you need additional experience.

The downside of working for free is that you build a reputation as the "free guy". That makes it more difficult to attract paying clients.

Furthermore, whenever you do free work for someone, you are almost guaranteeing that you will never get them as a paying client. In their mind, the value of your work is nothing (no matter how good your images). When you reach the point that you demand payment from them, they will dump you and hire someone else. After all, if they have to spend money, why waste it on the "free guy"? They will spend it on someone who is good enough that they don't have to work for free.

DL87 said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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In the USA you generally need a model's permission in order to use their likeness to promote goods and/or services. If you are running a business and want to use the image to promote your business (perhaps on your web site), then you really should have a release.

If you are not running a business, then this isn't an issue. However privacy might be. If the model had a reasonable expectation of privacy (perhaps she was not fully clothed), then you should have written permission to demonstrate that the model has approved your publication of the images.

DL87 said:

5. For professional photography or project uses, how and where can I find models from? (Except Model Mayhem, Craigslist, and Facebook) Do I need to find a model agency directly?

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It depends on the project.

If your business is portraits or personal photography, then you advertise and your clients pay you.

If your business is model portfolios, then look at your business plan. Established models seldom pay for images for their portfolio. You need to advertise for people who wish to become models, and are willing to pay to develop a portfolio.

If you are an amateur, then you can hire models, or simply ask people. If you sound genuine, then people may be willing to model for you in exchange for images.

DL87 said:

6. For the test shooting, do I need to ask a model directly or model agency? Can agency model work with me without an agency's permission?

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It depends on what you mean by "test" shooting. If no one is being paid, then the model is typically allowed to "test" with you, however she probably isn't allowed to sign a release.

Obviously, it depends on the specific agreement the model has with the agency, and how strictly she wants to follow it.

====

The important question is why are you asking?

Do you need a model to shoot an advertisement or catalog photo for a client? If so the easy answer is to call an agency, hire a model, and bill the client.

Are you just wanting to shot photos for your private collection? If so then explain to people on the street that you are a struggling photographer looking for models. Tell them you think they are perfect for your next project, and ask if they would like to pose for you. People generally respond well to sincere flattery.

Are you looking to practice your skill? Find another new photographer, and take turns posing for each other.

Is there a local art school? See if there are students there who are willing to model for you. You can compensate them by photographing their work for them.

DL87 said:

Few amateurs questions.

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Well I am a hobbyist as well, with a passion for fashion photography, so I'll add my 2 pences

Oh and I am into fashion editorial... what you'll read below applies to my expertise in this specific sub-genre of model photography

DL87 said:

1. Is it bad if I shoot only female models or does it matter?

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strange question but no it doesn't unless you shoot commission work and the client wants a male model in it

DL87 said:

2. A model wanted to have a TFP portrait session with me but I realized that he didnt show up and ruined my studio session few years ago. Since then, we didnt contact each other for few years. Do I need to care about what he did or ignore his past?

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only you know how valuable your time is. I have very little time for my passion and therefore I would not risk it with people that have been unreliable in the past. Alternatively say yes but get another model for the same session to mitigate no-show risks

DL87 said:

3. Few friends asked me to take pics of them for their uses but not beneficial for my uses. Should I ask them for payments?

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something for you to decide. I am at pains to explain to my friends (been there done that) that one reason my photos look the way they do is the presence of (semi) professional models... If they insist (and if they are truly friends of mine) I usually ask for my expenses to be covered

DL87 said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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if you want to get the photos published (on mags or on social media) they model may object and prevent you from doing so. I am not an expert though

DL87 said:

5. For professional photography or project uses, how and where can I find models from? (Except Model Mayhem, Craigslist, and Facebook) Do I need to find a model agency directly?

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Better models will result in better photos all else being equal. Agency models usually are experienced and don't need too much direction... and usually their appearance is true to their photos. "Random" models may look different in real life from their online photos and may need a lot of guidance.

How comfortable are you with directing models?

The answer to this question also depends on your location. The sites you mention are good sources of models in some locations, less so in others. And not all agencies are created equal: some are legit businesses with great models, some are little more than scams. But the better the agency, the better your portfolio has to be to secure models for testing.

I always remember my very first shoot with my first agency model since she was a pro and a pleasure to shoot with

DL87 said:

6. For the test shooting, do I need to ask a model directly or model agency? Can agency model work with me without an agency's permission?

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Agency models from serious agencies will always refer you back to their agent. Many "agency models" that work for smaller or even questionable agencies are part-time and therefore are independent if they wish to be.



--
Ciao!
Roberto
My photos: http://rdmfashionphoto.com/

DL87 said:

Few amateurs questions.

1. Is it bad if I shoot only female models or does it matter?

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Depends if you're legit or just another GWAC (guy with a camera, not a good thing). But generally, no.

DL87 said:

2. A model wanted to have a TFP portrait session with me but I realized that he didnt show up and ruined my studio session few years ago. Since then, we didnt contact each other for few years. Do I need to care about what he did or ignore his past?

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Ignore. Move on.

DL87 said:

3. Few friends asked me to take pics of them for their uses but not beneficial for my uses. Should I ask them for payments?

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That's your call. Generally I shoot friends n/c. Beneficial on your end includes possible portfolio captures.

DL87 said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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You do them before the shoot, so any questions or concerns can be addressed then.

DL87 said:

5. For professional photography or project uses, how and where can I find models from? (Except Model Mayhem, Craigslist, and Facebook) Do I need to find a model agency directly?

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You may have to if you know no one in the biz to shoot. Expect to pay, but there are exceptions. See below.

DL87 said:

6. For the test shooting, do I need to ask a model directly or model agency? Can agency model work with me without an agency's permission?

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Depends. If the model is agency unaffiliated, you ask directly. If not, you can still do a trade test with an agency model, just make sure it's OK to do an unpaid test. Generally, the smaller the agency, the better your chances to do unpaid tests.

Good luck, it's a tough world out there.

DL87 said:

Few amateurs questions.

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Trying to not be too repetitious

DL87 said:

1. Is it bad if I shoot only female models or does it matter?

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Not necessarily bad, but could be a disadvantage if you ever try to make photography a business

DL87 said:

2. A model wanted to have a TFP portrait session with me but I realized that he didnt show up and ruined my studio session few years ago. Since then, we didnt contact each other for few years. Do I need to care about what he did or ignore his past?

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A few years ago? People grow and change. He may be more responsible now. You could consider how valuable the photos would be to you, what else you might do with that time. Doing TFP with amateur/semi-pro models always has some risk. I always have a Plan B -- what I'll do with my time in case they no-show.

DL87 said:

3. Few friends asked me to take pics of them for their uses but not beneficial for my uses. Should I ask them for payments?

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Tough call. How close a friend? Is it someone you could call on for a favor? Have they done you favors in the past?

Will you be setting yourself up for more of this stuff in the future, either from this person or from other friends? Will it become a nuisance?

How will you explain to your friends if you do some for free and charge others money? I'm not say never do this, I'm saying you should have an answer ready if someone asks.

For myself, if it's a close friend who I can count on, I do it for free. For a more casual friend or someone who has turned me down when I needed a favor I say "I'll do it for my 'friends and family' price."

DL87 said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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You should get a written release before you show photos or post them online, especially if it is anything that might prove embarrassing to the subject or tarnish their reputation.

Among the problems, if you ever want to submit the photos to a contest, magazine, or stock agency they will almost always require a release. You could have an award winning or money making photo that you cannot use.

The worst problem is you could face a lawsuit.

That said, I sometimes go with a verbal OK if it is someone I know and trust and the photos are innocuous.

DL87 said:

5. For professional photography or project uses, how and where can I find models from? (Except Model Mayhem, Craigslist, and Facebook) Do I need to find a model agency directly?

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What kind of professional photography?

For advertising, commercial, editorial and fashion my experience is the client usually furnishes the model and pays them (or the agency) directly. I almost insist on this -- I don't want to be stuck explaining to a model why my customer is slow to pay, or explaining to the client why a model I hired was a no-show or did a less-than-great job.

If it's your own project your best bet is your own network. Build a reputation on social media -- Instagram looks to be the hot thing right now, but Facebook still works. Get to know people in your area -- photographers, models, agents, makeup artists and so on. Join groups and participate in the community. Attend meet-ups and networking events. Ideally get to know people face-to-face, but at least build a reputation online.

(Keep your modeling and professional photography separate from your personal posts -- nobody wants to wade through pictures of your lunch and your cat to get to the modeling samples.)

You can contact a model agency. Be prepared to show samples of your work, and be ready to act very professional. They have all kinds of people showing up claiming to be "photographers." A good agency is very picky about who they send their clients to work with.

DL87 said:

6. For the test shooting, do I need to ask a model directly or model agency? Can agency model work with me without an agency's permission?

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Either way. For models, some agency models have very restrictive contracts, some are more free agents. There should be no harm in asking a model, so long as you keep it professional. It is up to the model to know the terms of their contract. Do be clear about how you intend to use the photos and that you will required a release. And you should be willing to take "no" for an answer without being pushy or petty about it.

With agencies, as above, they will likely want to vet you. You may have to agree to allow them to use your photos, or they may want some control over how you use them. They may want veto power over what you use or post. In that case you decided if the deal works for you.

Gato

Gato Amarillo said:

Gato Amarillo said:

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Gato Amarillo said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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You should get a written release before you show photos or post them online, especially if it is anything that might prove embarrassing to the subject or tarnish their reputation.

Among the problems, if you ever want to submit the photos to a contest, magazine, or stock agency they will almost always require a release. You could have an award winning or money making photo that you cannot use.

The worst problem is you could face a lawsuit.

That said, I sometimes go with a verbal OK if it is someone I know and trust and the photos are innocuous.

Gato Amarillo said:

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In some states it is a crime to use someone's likeness commercially without proper permission. In those states, you can be arrested for doing so (although this is unlikely).

Michael Fryd said:

In some states it is a crime to use someone's likeness commercially without proper permission. In those states, you can be arrested for doing so (although this is unlikely).

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I should have included my usual disclaimer/advice -- check the law in your state or country.

Gato

DL87 said:

Few amateurs questions.

1. Is it bad if I shoot only female models or does it matter?

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Having an exclusive portfolio can be limiting when you are trying to be hired.

I started out shooting 50/50 but after about a year the head of the largest agency in LA pulled me in and told me she and her staff would be sending me men as everyone on their approved list could shoot women but I was on a very short list of people who could shoot men and they still look like men. I transitioned from 50/50 to 80/20 overnight and I lived with it.

DL87 said:

2. A model wanted to have a TFP portrait session with me but I realized that he didnt show up and ruined my studio session few years ago. Since then, we didnt contact each other for few years. Do I need to care about what he did or ignore his past?

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Why shoot someone from three years ago unless they are exactly what you need now or their participation will add value to the images? For example - If he is currently in a national CalvinKlein campaign, and you can feature him in your test shoot, that adds to your credibility if the images you take are wonderful.

DL87 said:

3. Few friends asked me to take pics of them for their uses but not beneficial for my uses. Should I ask them for payments?

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Unless it benefits you- which qualifies as defacto payment- don't shoot for free.

DL87 said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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None. You're not going to sell someone else's portrait to a third party to promote their product. If you post a portrait in your portfolio you have no use for the person's name which is the only thing they could come after you for. The release might allow you to use their identification but I have never identified a model . The people who matter know who is who.

DL87 said:

5. For professional photography or project uses, how and where can I find models from? (Except Model Mayhem, Craigslist, and Facebook)

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Escorts or large chests no doubt but those three are not likely going to yield fully competitive people.

DL87 said:

Do I need to find a model agency directly?

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Talent agency. Commercial print division, fashion print division. runway and fit models may also be separated out.

DL87 said:

6. For the test shooting, do I need to ask a model directly or model agency?

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If you have a relationship with an agency they will refer you to their people who need new photos.

DL87 said:

Can agency model work with me without an agency's permission?

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Work with you, yes. Use the images in their portfolio- no.

•••

Learn to differentiate between people who (lol) self identify as models, people whose friends refer to them as models, people who have photographs of themselves on Instagram and when they die the news reports "she was an IG model" as if that's an effing thing. People who model for their photographer friends ...I could go on...AND people who actually work as fashion or commercial models through a legitimate agency. Contracts, taxes, real world jobs. Right height, right size, skin, teeth, hair.

I was a swimmer in college and Phelps is a swimmer. No comparison.

There are people with hammers and saws and then there are Amish craftsmen.

There are people who model and there are models.

DenWil said:

DL87 said:

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DenWil said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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None. You're not going to sell someone else's portrait to a third party to promote their product. If you post a portrait in your portfolio you have no use for the person's name which is the only thing they could come after you for. The release might allow you to use their identification but I have never identified a model . The people who matter know who is who.

DenWil said:

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You need to be careful here. A release is needed if the image is going to be used to promote a product or service. That includes the products and services of others as well as your own services.

If you have a photography business, and want to use the image to promote your photography business you need to be careful.

Most states don't require you to have a formal release in order include an image in a traditional physical portfolio book that you carry around with you.

Most states do require you to get the model's permission in order to use the image on an advertisement.

Which category your web site falls into is not settled law. There is a legal difference between use in a physical portfolio, and publishing the image for all the world to see.

I am not saying that every image on your website absolutely requires a release, however I am saying that some uses do.

I would strongly urge that you err on the side of safety, and get a release before publishing an image on your business web site. However, that could simply be my temperament. While it is unlikely that you would have a problem, I personally prefer not to take unnecessary risks.

DL87 said:

Few amateurs questions.

1. Is it bad if I shoot only female models or does it matter?

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Should it be bad? It can certainly be if you are a GWC and that is what you are doing. You will get a bad reputation. I shoot mostly women, but I do it in a very respectable manner. Let's be honest, guys generally don't care about photos for themselves, women usually care more about photos, about modeling, about boudoir. It's always the woman who books me for their wedding for example. I shoot people all the time, and one of my commissioned work involves dating photos. About half guys, half girls, and I can tell you the guys will always take about 10-20 minutes and be done, while the women want it to be at least an hour, and buy extra photos for themselves.

Are you planning to make this a business or just want to shoot pretty women? You can still shoot pretty women, but not be seen as a pervert or GWC if you do it the right way.

DL87 said:

2. A model wanted to have a TFP portrait session with me but I realized that he didnt show up and ruined my studio session few years ago. Since then, we didnt contact each other for few years. Do I need to care about what he did or ignore his past?

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Ignore / blacklist. There are tons of models out there, that act much more professionally to avoid working with people that have proven to be unprofessional. There is the term GWC for guys, there is a similar thing for girls who want to be models to get attention. Work with models, not girls. As you get better, more well known, you can get better quality.

DL87 said:

3. Few friends asked me to take pics of them for their uses but not beneficial for my uses. Should I ask them for payments?

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Yes ask for payment, unless you are doing them a favour. This is solely up to you of course.

DL87 said:

4. If we didnt write a release form after we had a

portrait session, what would be the biggest problem?

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Get sued if you use the photos commercially. Model release or no model release, you may get a model or boudoir client ask you to take down some photos that she was ok with years ago, which I have done on request (life changes). Just because you have a model release, does not mean you should be stubborn and go against a person's future wishes.

DL87 said:

5. For professional photography or project uses, how and where can I find models from? (Except Model Mayhem, Craigslist, and Facebook) Do I need to find a model agency directly?

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Model Mayhem is kinda garbage nowadays but you can. Local Facebook photographer and model groups is the best place if you are starting. Model agencies will generally only work with you if you are good, or they will approach you directly. Instagram is a great tool as well. I can work with any model of a model agency that I wish on request and they will get me in contact with that model for any projects I do. They will send models to you for photos. Since I do paid work only nowadays, I do not use it much, but I can for any reason.

For instance I have a client looking for 2 specific model looks for a commercial fashion shoot this week. I simply sent an IM through Instagram for the models that fit the description. If I did a model call on my Instagram, I would get hundreds of messages within an hour, especially if the model is getting paid. This is also something to consider. If you

The agency and that level will come later though as you progress. You can definitely get there and beyond with time.

DL87 said:

6. For the test shooting, do I need to ask a model directly or model agency? Can agency model work with me without an agency's permission?

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It's all depending on the model and the agency they are with. I did many projects in the past, with models I wanted from an agency. They gave me their catalog, I said I want so and so for my project, they got me in contact with them. Some models are independent with representation, others are exclusive through an agency and can get fired if they work outside of the agency's permission. The model agency may or may not provide permission and it's up to their discretion.

On another note. Think of it, there are beginner models, and beginner photographers. A higher end model will charge to work with a beginning photographer, likewise, a professional photographer will charge to work with a beginning model. A high end model however would gladly work with an experienced photographer for free and vice versa as it is mutually beneficial. If TFP work does not benefit you or your portfolio, you should consider charging.

http://www.cormierphoto.ca if you want to see my model work. Get better with your photography and you will notice that people will come to you. Your photography should be at a certain level first, but the right models can propel you to the next level.