Will blockchain technology enable photographers to come back to business?

Locks only keep out honest people.
Assume one second that someone sets it up, everybody uses it and a gigantic bureaucracy is established to administer it, who's going to enforce it ?
In a world where Superpowers actively spy and steal from all and sundry,
who ya gonna call ?

--
Ron.
Volunteer, what could possibly go wrong ?

Ghost Busters! ;-)

This won't do anything to assist with the reason paid photography is not growing. That is because of digital photography. Anyone can take an unending number of pretty decent photos and view and distribute them instantly. From a device a massive number of people own and use daily.

As for protecting individual images, the print screen button or a simultaneous press of two keys on your phone defeats that instantly.

Holger Bargen said:

Just a word about this technology: Blockchain is an option to set something like an individual watermark to your product - and somebody who is interested in it can buy it and transfer the money over blockchain technology to give you the money for your photo.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but you completely misundertand the Block Chain Technoloy (BCT).

BCT is not option, but distributed computing. Using nnn thousands (million) of cheap computers in the chain to do (verify) the data transactions, instead of private farm of expensive servers.

To draw the computer owners of such mass willing to do the task for you, you have to pay something back in return.

Private international companies can set up private BCT computing power because they already have that nnn thousands of (workstation) computers scattered around this world.

~~~

BCT is not magic bullet. It's better than server farm in many aspect, but is not perfect answer. Nor another technology hype word : Big Data.

What does blockchain have to do with bitcoin?

Lots of banks are using blockchain. You're telling me they're being hacked with frequency because of that?

Holger Bargen said:

Dear all,

Internet is a part of my life - maybe even the most important since about 2000 (the year I found my wife through the internet ;-) ).

I am glad to have the forum here, I was at a couple of foums and learned a lot ( alot of forums don't exist anymore).

Our family does not have TV - but we have computers in almost every room and we spend a lot of time online.

The good thing is: internet is free and we can grow and learn from all over the world for free.

The bad thing is: the internet is free and ideas and information almost get rid of worth and value as it is free. A lot of people lost their jobe because of the internet - and a lot of photographers are affected, too.

I just see this video which is a talk with Georg Gilder about blockchain technology.

Click to expand...

So, to answer your questions below..

Holger Bargen said:

From this my question arises: Is blockchain an option for photographers to get paid for their work?

Click to expand...

Possibly, but only if you want to get paid in a crypto currency like Bitcoin. But this technology alone in no way can ensure you get paid for proper use (which, I infer, was what you were thinking about). You cannot realistically ‘lock up’ photos using this tech even though it uses cryptographic techniques.

Holger Bargen said:

Is this technology already available for photographers?

Click to expand...

Its available to anyone but I’m not aware anyone has built an application on it for this purpose. (I.e. you should think of Blockchain technology more as an operating system than an app.)

Holger Bargen said:

How do you think about this technology?

Click to expand...

So...

- Blockchain is a description of HOW the technology works. That is cryptographic techniques are used to link a series of transaction together into a chain of blocks of data. Because of the way this is done, the record of every transaction is ‘immutable’ (cannot be tampered with) and that is provable. These techniques do not require a ‘central authority’ to provide this assurance; thus it allows trust to be created in the transactions in a distributed network without there being any overriding owner/authority (eg a government).

So, that’s the essence... creating an immutable record of events (a ‘ledger’) with the trust in the ledger being established without a central governing authority but only using the participants in that network.

The name Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT) is actually a better description of WHAT this technology does. In the real world of applied apps, DLT will have an increasingly important role to play where there are groups of people / entities (companies or other enterprises) who have enduring trading relationships and need to exchange data and hold trusted and provable mutual records of those trading activities. In practice, there are myriad such situations in our world. That is why DLT will is a useful technology and will be used widely; it actually fills a gap in our previous tech capability.

Holger Bargen said:

Just a word about this technology: Blockchain is an option to set something like an individual watermark to your product

Click to expand...

So, a DLT could very be used to hold a provable record of a photo and the copyright owner. It would allow provable metadata (a ‘hash’) to be stored in the photo that would be verifiable againt the image itself and then through the ledger to the ‘owner’ and it could also allow records of ‘purchase’ to be held. Thus, any use of a photo could be tracked and checked to see if there was an infringement.

Holger Bargen said:

and somebody who is interested in it can buy it and transfer the money over blockchain technology to give you the money for your photo.

Click to expand...

That could be done as an add on but it’s not, presently, a necessity to make the above work.

Holger Bargen said:

Some people think about using blockchain to market art:

https://www.artnome.com/news/2018/7/21/art-world-meet-blockchain

Why not create a technology to include an individual number to a photo-file (don't know if JPG would already give us the options) - maybe we could even limit the numbers of copies of a single file like graphic artists do it with their work. Blockchain technology could sing our work individually and also give us the technology for a simple transfer of money.

Here is a nice website with ideas how to use this technology for a small company (and why not for a big one, too):

https://www.upwork.com/hiring/for-clients/8-blockchain-applications-help-small-business/

I am sure this technology - like every technology - has its pros and cons.

Who do you think about it? Do you have any experience with it?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Holger Bargen said:

Best regards

Holger

Click to expand...

Richard B99 said:

Holger Bargen said:

Dear all,

Internet is a part of my life - maybe even the most important since about 2000 (the year I found my wife through the internet ;-) ).

I am glad to have the forum here, I was at a couple of foums and learned a lot ( alot of forums don't exist anymore).

Our family does not have TV - but we have computers in almost every room and we spend a lot of time online.

The good thing is: internet is free and we can grow and learn from all over the world for free.

The bad thing is: the internet is free and ideas and information almost get rid of worth and value as it is free. A lot of people lost their jobe because of the internet - and a lot of photographers are affected, too.

I just see this video which is a talk with Georg Gilder about blockchain technology.

Click to expand...

So, to answer your questions below..

Richard B99 said:

From this my question arises: Is blockchain an option for photographers to get paid for their work?

Click to expand...

Possibly, but only if you want to get paid in a crypto currency like Bitcoin. But this technology alone in no way can ensure you get paid for proper use (which, I infer, was what you were thinking about). You cannot realistically ‘lock up’ photos using this tech even though it uses cryptographic techniques.

Richard B99 said:

Is this technology already available for photographers?

Click to expand...

Its available to anyone but I’m not aware anyone has built an application on it for this purpose. (I.e. you should think of Blockchain technology more as an operating system than an app.)

Richard B99 said:

How do you think about this technology?

Click to expand...

So...

- Blockchain is a description of HOW the technology works. That is cryptographic techniques are used to link a series of transaction together into a chain of blocks of data. Because of the way this is done, the record of every transaction is ‘immutable’ (cannot be tampered with) and that is provable. These techniques do not require a ‘central authority’ to provide this assurance; thus it allows trust to be created in the transactions in a distributed network without there being any overriding owner/authority (eg a government).

So, that’s the essence... creating an immutable record of events (a ‘ledger’) with the trust in the ledger being established without a central governing authority but only using the participants in that network.

The name Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT) is actually a better description of WHAT this technology does. In the real world of applied apps, DLT will have an increasingly important role to play where there are groups of people / entities (companies or other enterprises) who have enduring trading relationships and need to exchange data and hold trusted and provable mutual records of those trading activities. In practice, there are myriad such situations in our world. That is why DLT will is a useful technology and will be used widely; it actually fills a gap in our previous tech capability.

Richard B99 said:

Just a word about this technology: Blockchain is an option to set something like an individual watermark to your product

Click to expand...

So, a DLT could very be used to hold a provable record of a photo and the copyright owner. It would allow provable metadata (a ‘hash’) to be stored in the photo that would be verifiable againt the image itself and then through the ledger to the ‘owner’ and it could also allow records of ‘purchase’ to be held. Thus, any use of a photo could be tracked and checked to see if there was an infringement.

Richard B99 said:

and somebody who is interested in it can buy it and transfer the money over blockchain technology to give you the money for your photo.

Click to expand...

That could be done as an add on but it’s not, presently, a necessity to make the above work.

Richard B99 said:

Some people think about using blockchain to market art:

https://www.artnome.com/news/2018/7/21/art-world-meet-blockchain

Why not create a technology to include an individual number to a photo-file (don't know if JPG would already give us the options) - maybe we could even limit the numbers of copies of a single file like graphic artists do it with their work. Blockchain technology could sing our work individually and also give us the technology for a simple transfer of money.

Here is a nice website with ideas how to use this technology for a small company (and why not for a big one, too):

https://www.upwork.com/hiring/for-clients/8-blockchain-applications-help-small-business/

I am sure this technology - like every technology - has its pros and cons.

Who do you think about it? Do you have any experience with it?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Richard B99 said:

Best regards

Holger

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Dear Richard B99,

your answer gives a lot of light into the technology I have no more than a rough idea about. It's very helpful.

I also think that this technology could be very helpful for photographers - but it nothing we immediatelly can start with. There would have to be apps and programms that open the world to us. The question would be: who will ever do the programming for this kind of business? Could there be an interest of the camera makers to provide their customers - especially if they aim at a professional market - with this technology?

Best regards

Holger

khunpapa said:

Holger Bargen said:

Just a word about this technology: Blockchain is an option to set something like an individual watermark to your product - and somebody who is interested in it can buy it and transfer the money over blockchain technology to give you the money for your photo.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but you completely misundertand the Block Chain Technoloy (BCT).

BCT is not option, but distributed computing. Using nnn thousands (million) of cheap computers in the chain to do (verify) the data transactions, instead of private farm of expensive servers.

Click to expand...

Yes, this is the way it works technologically. But the advantage of blockchain seems to be (as far as I understood the interview I gave as link) that you can add a unique sign to a document and you can read this information only if you have the very unique key to it. This should make transactions safe - but due to its technology in a not administrated environment. If we see photos as documents there should be an option to add the key to them and thus, to control the distribution of them. And it should be pretty easy to follow up a possible distribution as well as the transaction of selling the licence to use the photo.

The digital world changed photography in an enormous way. I worked a long time with slides and I know analogue photography - and I don't want to go back. But I also see the problems and also the options digital photography brings to photographers. Blcokchain seems to be an option that could offer a new tool of photographers to run their business - maybe an entire new market.

khunpapa said:

To draw the computer owners of such mass willing to do the task for you, you have to pay something back in return.

Private international companies can set up private BCT computing power because they already have that nnn thousands of (workstation) computers scattered around this world.

~~~

BCT is not magic bullet. It's better than server farm in many aspect, but is not perfect answer. Nor another technology hype word : Big Data.

Click to expand...

confused circle said:

This won't do anything to assist with the reason paid photography is not growing. That is because of digital photography. Anyone can take an unending number of pretty decent photos and view and distribute them instantly. From a device a massive number of people own and use daily.

Click to expand...

I don't think that we have much more competition for photographers, today. It is true that almost everyone has with his smartphone a great tool to take photos. But look around: how many people take photos at a professional level - and how many people offer their photos to a market where it can be used the professional way. We do have stcok photography and the market is crowded - even with photos from people who do not know much about photography. For many tasks this quality may be good enough. But I do believe: photographers can take better photos - and you will see it more and more as the quality of the displays (monitors) that show the photos becomes better.

confused circle said:

As for protecting individual images, the print screen button or a simultaneous press of two keys on your phone defeats that instantly.

Click to expand...

Ron Poelman said:

Locks only keep out honest people.
Assume one second that someone sets it up, everybody uses it and a gigantic bureaucracy is established to administer it, who's going to enforce it ?

Click to expand...

The idea of blockchains seems to be that you don't need administration and that it should be safe. I learned from the answers here that this saftey may be no more than an illusion. But generlly speaking I don't think that you have to be a gangster to use blockchain technology - it aims to a professional market with transactions that are more safe than using the classical internet.

Ron Poelman said:

In a world where Superpowers actively spy and steal from all and sundry,
who ya gonna call ?

Click to expand...

In a world wide web we are facing the risk that everything can get stolen. We have mechanisms that try to keep us safe - but from time to time we read about these modern forms of bank robbery. And I don't know if I can call an administration to bring back my money - or if the procedure would be that I have an insurance to take the risk for the transactions that would help me in this situation.

Holger Bargen said:

khunpapa said:

Holger Bargen said:

Just a word about this technology: Blockchain is an option to set something like an individual watermark to your product - and somebody who is interested in it can buy it and transfer the money over blockchain technology to give you the money for your photo.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but you completely misundertand the Block Chain Technoloy (BCT).

BCT is not option, but distributed computing. Using nnn thousands (million) of cheap computers in the chain to do (verify) the data transactions, instead of private farm of expensive servers.

Click to expand...

Yes, this is the way it works technologically. But the advantage of blockchain seems to be (as far as I understood the interview I gave as link) that you can add a unique sign to a document and you can read this information only if you have the very unique key to it. This should make transactions safe - but due to its technology in a not administrated environment. If we see photos as documents there should be an option to add the key to them and thus, to control the distribution of them. And it should be pretty easy to follow up a possible distribution as well as the transaction of selling the licence to use the photo.

Click to expand...

No, no.

BCT is proliferating not because of security alone, but because of massive distributing transaction verification processes.

Before BCT comes into play, every transaction has to be interacted and approved by server(s). If the transactions occur locally, that's not the big problem.

However, if they occurs world wide, billion transactions per day, how would you route which transactions to which servers? How you synchronize the transaction approvement and acknowledgement to every servers in real time so that all servers have the same interaction data?

User A1 of bank A transfers $ money to user A2 of bank A in USA. Once transaction complete, user A2 transfers part of $ money to user C1 of C bank in China, part $ to user C2 of C bank in Japan. Immediately user C1 & C2 transfer themmonet to India and Singapore via bank I and S respectively, in respective currency.

How to verify that the money transactions of all users of all bank are correct?

---

Digital signature is simple single transaction. A single server (farm) is enough to verify and store the validity of such transaction. It even can verify later (batch processng), not must-be instanteneous like money.

That is an absolutely horrific idea on so many levels, starting with censorship issues.

confused circle said:

This won't do anything to assist with the reason paid photography is not growing. That is because of digital photography. Anyone can take an unending number of pretty decent photos and view and distribute them instantly. From a device a massive number of people own and use daily.

As for protecting individual images, the print screen button or a simultaneous press of two keys on your phone defeats that instantly.

Click to expand...

There should be software to detect that and shut down the phone or computer remotely, while wiping its contents.

mwyyc said:

That is an absolutely horrific idea on so many levels, starting with censorship issues.

Click to expand...

I don't know if this would replace the entire internet or if it would be a net with other features, options and risks.

Freedom is a treasure - and it should be kept alive as much as possible.

But I do believe that the freedom of the internet is already limited - not just by filters for different countries that may exist. Already the order of ranking of content is some kind of a filter that may effect visibility of websites.

No Talent Hack said:

confused circle said:

This won't do anything to assist with the reason paid photography is not growing. That is because of digital photography. Anyone can take an unending number of pretty decent photos and view and distribute them instantly. From a device a massive number of people own and use daily.

As for protecting individual images, the print screen button or a simultaneous press of two keys on your phone defeats that instantly.

Click to expand...

There should be software to detect that and shut down the phone or computer remotely, while wiping its contents.

Click to expand...

That sort of remote control of individuals' computers sounds like the wet dream of every authoritarian regime on the planet. "Hmm, journalist Bob Smith took some photos of a protest where our security forces beat ten people to death in the street. We don't want those photos to get out and make us look bad. Make sure to add all photos and videos signed with the crypto key of Bob Smith's cameras to the 'instantly wipe viewers' computers' list."

No Talent Hack said:

What does blockchain have to do with bitcoin?

Lots of banks are using blockchain. You're telling me they're being hacked with frequency because of that?

Click to expand...

Claim #4: lots of banks are using blockchain. I am in accounting and work with banks a lot and never heard of them using blockchain for anything. What I know for sure that a handful of bank (three or four in total, mostly European) announced earlier this year their joint effort to test blockchain for their transactions. They will be using a proprietary software designed by a third party which is remotely based on an open source blockchain algorithm but not entirely. That’s it.

The whole appeal of a blockchain is being “distributed ledger”, meaning a ledger that is not controlled by anybody. Banks that I mentioned will not be using purely distributed ledger, they will keep full control of their ledger. So it is really not a true blockchain in its original meaning. In essence, there is still a lot of technical, economic, political, and even social concerns with maintaining purely distributed ledger. So like I said, we don’t know yet where it all goes.

User7502529587 said:

VadymA said:

I’ve done my own research of blockchain technology and in my educated opinion, it still has a long way to go to prove its usefulness. There are a lot of claims about this technology which I believe are false. Here is just a few to keep it short because I can write a book on this subject.

Claim #1: blockchain is extremely secure. Well, just look this snap from last week news, read the title at the top right. Does it sound very secure?



Claim #2: blockchain cannot be manipulated, replicated, etc. The truth is, over two thousand new blockchain platforms were created between February and May of this year alone !!! (The time when I was conducting my research). It is easily relacable.

Claim #3: blockchain is not controlled by any individual organization. It is already recognized that using personal computers to maintain blockchain ledger is not efficient, so in most cases it is done by a handful of professional “miners” who accumulate tremendous leverage to be able to dictate the rules, or the idea of miners is being abandoned completely - the majority of new versions of blockchain are controlled by individual companies.

Sorry, I have to run, otherwise I could continue on and on. To repeat, I am not dismissing blockchain entirely, it is just we are not there yet to figure out the best way of using it.

Click to expand...

Well some part of your info is wrong!

The blockchain is like Unix, every one can use it to make her/his own platform and this is way different than ability to manipulation the current platform.

So number 2 is sort of misleading.

Click to expand...

Of course some of my statements, if not all need clarification. Please keep in mind, I am not writing an essay here. But to your point, blockchain is just an algorithm of maintaining a public ledger. It is quite simple. It is the content that matters, which is mostly consist of cryptographic signatures. Those signatures are not the same platform from platform, so they are not compatible. The signatures itself are quite secure, but the software that keeps track of them is not that secure and being frequently hacked. The OP is asking whether he can benefit form using blockchain now. In my personal opinion, there is still a huge risk with longevity of current iteration of blockchain, so he needs to be aware of them.