Very little progress in 5 years

  • Lack of wifi transfer (I edit my images on my iPhone/iPad)
The WiFi transfer function is so slow (20 secs for a JPEG, 40 for a RAW), that it is only useful when you want to pull one or two shots out quickly.

Fortunately there is now a much better solution: Apple has finally updated iOS 12 to properly support the Lightning to SD-Card Adapter. Now I can pull shots off the card at about 1 second per image, to either an IPhone 7 or iPad Pro. Also, the card adapter won't drain my camera batteries the way WiFi does while it (very slowly) transfers images. At $29, it's much cheaper than a new camera.

Once you've tried it, you'll never regret not having WiFi.
You might also wish to try

https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Mob...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B019PY0ORK

A combination portable battery pack and WiFi SD card reader interface (make sure you get the G3 model, not the slower original!). Standard SMB file interface allows the SD card to be read by any modern device that supports Windows networking standards like laptops or smart devices with that support; smartphone app also available. Make sure you update the firmware when you get it!
 
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If you look to the current generation of mFT cameras and lenses, there was tremendous progress: quality, performance, ergonomics, handling, and features. Hardly any manufacturer put so many innovative things in its camera line up.

Also, you statement that there was nothing new in the GM1 to E-P5 space, is wrong. There is the classic PEN-F, finally with build-in view finder, the E-PL9, and the GX9.

To me, there are a lot of new offers of the types of cameras, you are looking for.
His point, and some of the same point I have also made is:

Yes, there have been advancements, but not in the body class that a good number of potential buyers want to stick to (midsize rangefinder/DSLR). For example, you list the E-PL9 and GX-9 as cameras he is looking for, yet both miss his stated target in shutter ability: 1/8000 second top shutter speed. Same thing with the G85. The Pen-F has the 20mpx sensor and 1/8000, but AF ability is noted as 'average'. The EM-5 mk II is an excellent camera but 3 years old and we're still waiting for an announced replacement, also still waiting for a camera besides the EM1 to feature the OSPDAF-enhanced 20mpx sensor. If you want to talk absolutes, m43 OSPDAF was first announced in the original EM1 in 2013, five freaking years - half a decade! - ago, and yet we STILL have only ONE camera that features it available for purchase as new!!

So, so far, it seems that m43 is constantly missing the 'target' with not creating the ideal rangefinder body, say a true follow-up to the very well regarded GX7. The constant trope that m43 users want everything but aren't willing to pay is just that, a trope: the GX9 isn't exactly cheap by mid-level standards yet a good number of people decided to buy. So, if a $1,000 camera comes out with the features and design that they want, they are buying.
 
His point, and some of the same point I have also made is:

Yes, there have been advancements, but not in the body class that a good number of potential buyers want to stick to (midsize rangefinder/DSLR). For example, you list the E-PL9 and GX-9 as cameras he is looking for, yet both miss his stated target in shutter ability: 1/8000 second top shutter speed. Same thing with the G85. The Pen-F has the 20mpx sensor and 1/8000, but AF ability is noted as 'average'. The EM-5 mk II is an excellent camera but 3 years old and we're still waiting for an announced replacement, also still waiting for a camera besides the EM1 to feature the OSPDAF-enhanced 20mpx sensor.
So, so. Little progress in the middle class? Wasn’t it the E-M5II, which introduced HiRes Mode, focus bracketing, live composite, terrific video stabilization?
As I note, the EM5 mk II is a great camera and, maybe, one of the exceptions. Arguably it was the GX8 that was the great advance - 20mpx, first implementation of DfD, external EC control, best viewfinder, etc etc - but people didn't warm up to it.

Otherwise we've been getting remakes of, pretty much, a "base" design (16mpx, CDAF, other features) with modest refinements. The G85 was acknowledged by DPR to be a "refinement than something new entirely" over the G7, and still got [stuck] with the 16mpx sensor; the G7 itself got "16MP isn't exactly cutting-edge at this point" when it was introduced. So from the G7 to the G85, 3 years, you pretty much got (almost) the same camera, just tweaked a bit, until the G9.

The GX85 was close to the same.

OK, so maybe some can argue that over the past 5 years improvements have been made. However, until 2018, over the past 3 years? Regurgitate (about the) same with BNG (Bold New Graphics, a motorcycle-referenced jab)
If you want to talk absolutes, m43 OSPDAF was first announced in the original EM1 in 2013, five freaking years - half a decade! - ago, and yet we STILL have only ONE camera that features it available for purchase as new!!
 
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Everyone "knows" what Olympus and Panasonic should build. Wonder why they are not working for a camera marketing company because no doubt if Olympus was to hire them, they would have a runaway bestseller on their hands!

Now back to reality. When you say there hasn't been any progress I would beg to differ. I started m43 with an E-M5. Upgraded to an E-M1 that was leaps and bounds beyond the capabilities of the E-M5 and now have an E-M1 II which is functionally leaps and bounds above the MkI (at least for my use).

As far as progress goes, just look at the complete lens lineup and everything that has been introduced over the last 5 years; I doubt any other system has received as much quality glass as we have in the m43 system. Personally, I love what Oly (and Panasonic) is doing - round out the bodies with a high/mid/low tier and concentrate on glass.
 
I moved from an E-M5 mk1 to a PEN F. There is a slight improvement in image quality but a vast increase in convenience and usability. For walking through the woods I pair it with a 9-18 and 14-150 and for walking around town I have a 17 1.8 and 45 1.8.

Peter Del
Could you elaborate on this further? I find the tilt screen of the E-M5 very handy but have heard mixed reviews about articulated screens. The removal of the hump when compared to EM5 and the addition of a well-magnified EVF do sound appealing. Overall I decided I could do without the EVF if it meant a smaller camera package overall.
When the PEN F launched, I played with it and decided I didn't like the flappy screen resting on the side of my hand. Then they were on special offer, including a free 17 1.8 lens, so I bought one. I now find the screen very useful, particularly when photographing something low down or at an awkward angle.

The built in viewfinder is unobtrusive. The four MySets are now on a dial on the top plate, so that menu diving is considerably reduced. The front knob can be useful for B & W pictures (the grain can be permanently turned off) - in effect making another MySet.

Peter Del
 
In this time I have owned:
  • Olympus 12mm f2 [sold]
  • Panasonic 14mm f2.5 [sold]
  • Panasonic 20mm f1.7
  • Panasonic 25mm f.14 [plan on selling]
  • Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7
As you can infer I value small, reasonably fast, prime lenses.
I'm confused. You value "small, reasonably fast prime lenses", yet you've SOLD the 12mm (fast for WA, very small) and 14mm (reasonably fast, super-small). Meanwhile you bought the 25mm f/1.4 instead of the nearly-as-fast-yet-way-smaller Oly 25mm f/1.8 and you're KEEPING the large Panny 42.5mm f/1.7 instead of the much smaller Oly 45mm f/1.8.

It seems to me many of the lenses you want are out there, you've just decided not to buy them.
 
Everyone "knows" what Olympus and Panasonic should build. Wonder why they are not working for a camera marketing company because no doubt if Olympus was to hire them, they would have a runaway bestseller on their hands!

Now back to reality. When you say there hasn't been any progress I would beg to differ. I started m43 with an E-M5. Upgraded to an E-M1 that was leaps and bounds beyond the capabilities of the E-M5 and now have an E-M1 II which is functionally leaps and bounds above the MkI (at least for my use).

As far as progress goes, just look at the complete lens lineup and everything that has been introduced over the last 5 years; I doubt any other system has received as much quality glass as we have in the m43 system. Personally, I love what Oly (and Panasonic) is doing - round out the bodies with a high/mid/low tier and concentrate on glass.
All true, but probably may not be enough for Oly to survive. The basic fact remains: for today's marketplace, Oly does not have enough constant innovation (or perceived innovation) to keep up with the noise being made by Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Nikon. Fewer store shelves, less online marketing, fewer significant advancements. Consumers' brains have been rewired to expect something new, different and improved––and constantly. Otherwise, you fall behind. I may be happy with my E-M5II and lenses, but that is not equating to a growing market for Oly sales.

PS: I love my kids.



5ea8f585a999457cba89a432ed1b0a03.jpg



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Roberthd12
 
In this time I have owned:
  • Olympus 12mm f2 [sold]
  • Panasonic 14mm f2.5 [sold]
  • Panasonic 20mm f1.7
  • Panasonic 25mm f.14 [plan on selling]
  • Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7
As you can infer I value small, reasonably fast, prime lenses.
I'm confused. You value "small, reasonably fast prime lenses", yet you've SOLD the 12mm (fast for WA, very small) and 14mm (reasonably fast, super-small). Meanwhile you bought the 25mm f/1.4 instead of the nearly-as-fast-yet-way-smaller Oly 25mm f/1.8 and you're KEEPING the large Panny 42.5mm f/1.7 instead of the much smaller Oly 45mm f/1.8.

It seems to me many of the lenses you want are out there, you've just decided not to buy them.
The Olympus 25mm was the first lens I purchased in 2012. Due to its size and the impressive quality of the 20mm I never use it.

I go on to explain why I’ve sold the wide-angle lenses. Further justifying that, I found the 14mm sub-par, with soft corners and very plain rendering. I sold it because I never took a photo with it that I loved. The 12mm was a much nicer rendering lens, that never quite justified its price. It wasn’t super sharp, but had a very pleasant quality to it. I enjoyed using it but at a point realised I had stopped taking photos with it.

I think you’re exaggerating the size difference between the 42.5mm and the 45mm. I purchased the 42.5 because it was cheaper, sharper, with better close focusing, and most importantly, had inbuilt OIS in case I ever purchased a GM5 body.
 
Robert, I think you have fallen into what I call "the Apple trap".

I strenuously resist this. My android phone is about 4-5 y.o. Still works perfectly. My E-30 served me well for about 7 years as my main camera. I expect my E-M1 MkI & MkII to do likewise.

Olympus practically owns the operating endoscope and imaging market (about 70+% IIRC). Their camera division includes their overall R&D department.
 
Robert, I think you have fallen into what I call "the Apple trap".
And you have fallen into what I call "A grandpa trap"?

Look you are happy with what you have, GOOD FOR YOU.

Not everyone is at your age and thinks like you. If someone wants the latest greatest and can afford it why not?!?!?
I strenuously resist this.
Question is WHY RESIST?
My android phone is about 4-5 y.o. Still works perfectly.
I think we got our answer. Nothing more to see or discuss.
My E-30 served me well for about 7 years as my main camera. I expect my E-M1 MkI & MkII to do likewise.

Olympus practically owns the operating endoscope and imaging market (about 70+% IIRC). Their camera division includes their overall R&D department.
--
My Flickr
My Getty Images
 
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And you have fallen into what I call "A grandpa trap"?
Look you are happy with what you have, GOOD FOR YOU.

Not everyone is at your age and thinks like you. If someone wants the latest greatest and can afford it why not?!?!?
Because we've learned that no matter how much you spend or what new gadget you buy if you cant take a good picture with your existing gear, spending money on new gear isn't going to help.

If you want the "latest greatest" then you will be switching brands yearly and rather than help your photography you are only going to hinder it. If you are just a gear collector then good on ya, go right ahead!
 
And you have fallen into what I call "A grandpa trap"?

Look you are happy with what you have, GOOD FOR YOU.

Not everyone is at your age and thinks like you. If someone wants the latest greatest and can afford it why not?!?!?
Because we've learned that no matter how much you spend or what new gadget you buy if you cant take a good picture with your existing gear, spending money on new gear isn't going to help.
What IS a good picture?

What if I am already taking what I considered good picture? Is it the only time I am allowed to get new gear?

Does everyone has to learn driving with a sh!t bomb?

Seriously whatever gear that makes you happy just go for it. Why being so uptight about it? Because you can't afford it? Is that what it is?
If you want the "latest greatest" then you will be switching brands yearly and rather than help your photography you are only going to hinder it. If you are just a gear collector then good on ya, go right ahead!
 
Kinson, the problem with youth is that it's mostly wasted on the young; the problem with wisdom is that it is often wasted on the old.

It is also why it's almost impossible to teach the young anything - they already know everything ...

If you really think your photography cannot be improved except with new gear, I truly feel sorry for you.
 
Seriously, how often do you need to use that high a shutter speed? It has been a long time since I used anything faster than 1/1000. I am interested in understanding your photographic interest and shooting style.
1/4000th is marginal if you want to limit DOF when you trek outdoors. For example, the “sunny 16” guideline at ISO 100 says you should shoot at 1/6400th at f/2.
Yes, especially after base ISO bumped from 100 to 200. With adapted f:1.4 lenses and now, native f:1.2 lenses we have to resort to ND filters to shoot them wide open outdoors with a 1/4000 SS limit.

The GM5 1/500 shutter is an added oddity, although the full e-shutter extended range helps so long as the subject isn't moving quickly.

Cheers,

Rick
The dual native ISO of the GX8 is a major reason I bought it. With true ISO 100 and 1/8000 shutter, I'm never limited in any kind of shooting I want to do.
The GX8 true base ISO is 200 , when you use 100 ISO it is an extended ISO which is a bit cleaner at the cost of DR. It is still my favourite m43 camera and i would love an updated version with a couple of the latest options, mainly real 4k ibis and pixel shift
You're wrong. GX8's ISO 100 is not "a bit cleaner", it's twice cleaner than ISO 200, and it has higher dynamic range than ISO 200. That's because its "extended ISO" is actually a true secondary base ISO. That's not the case with most other models.
 
Kinson, the problem with youth is that it's mostly wasted on the young; the problem with wisdom is that it is often wasted on the old.

It is also why it's almost impossible to teach the young anything - they already know everything ...

If you really think your photography cannot be improved except with new gear, I truly feel sorry for you.
John I do not feel that the slightest bit.

I just think that photography is a very personal, subjective matter.

There is no universally objectively good photographer, nor there is a bad one.

I shoot and enjoy the process to please myself and myself only - Same with buying whatever gear.

All I am saying is use whatever that makes you happy, buying new gear doesn't mean your photography will be improved or degraded, but who cares? (nor is the point to begin with)

At your age you should be wiser than that.

--
My Flickr
My Getty Images
 
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Then perhaps you should avoid using personally pejorative terms when replying to people?

[EDIT]

BTW, even though I am in "the grandpa trap" by your lights, and retired, businesses still see fit to pay me $250 p.h. as a computer troubleshooter/consultant of last resort ... Maybe I can still do some things fairly well, even though I'm all but completely physically buggered.

[end edit]

--
br, john, from you know where
My gear list and sordid past are here: https://www.dpreview.com/members/1558378718/overview
Gallery: https://www.canopuscomputing.com.au/zen2/page/gallery/
 
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"Percieved innovation"... that is part of the problem. But my dealer, who I believe, says Oly sales have disappeared the last few months. If Oly has some magic planned and they release info,buyers will hold off until then. There are a lot of m43 promotions and rebates going on which is some consolation in all this!
 
Kinson, the problem with youth is that it's mostly wasted on the young; the problem with wisdom is that it is often wasted on the old.

It is also why it's almost impossible to teach the young anything - they already know everything ...

If you really think your photography cannot be improved except with new gear, I truly feel sorry for you
That's a popular meme and a terrible one at that. If you want to take a picture of, say, a hummingbird in flight, with sharp feathers, and your old camera has a top shutter speed of 1/1000 while the latest has a top mechanical speed of 1/8000 and electronic of 1/16,000, which one will help you get the picture you are aiming for?

If you want to go to an auto race and get shots of full action, and your camera's continuous AF is severely lacking versus the latest model, which one will most likely get the keepers you are hoping for?

If you are shooting a fashion scene outdoors on a partly cloudy day, whilst using HSS fill flash, but your earlier body's TTL system is not as reliable as the latest body, which one will most likely bring home the keepers as well as creating an easier work environment with your model?

Composite high-res? Time lapse? Dim lighting and depending upon competent anti-shake?

All these and more may be available in upgrades that may allow you to get shots that would have taken great difficulty, thereby missing the moment, or maybe you couldn't get before at all.
 
I go on to explain why I’ve sold the wide-angle lenses. Further justifying that, I found the 14mm sub-par, with soft corners and very plain rendering. I sold it because I never took a photo with it that I loved. The 12mm was a much nicer rendering lens, that never quite justified its price. It wasn’t super sharp, but had a very pleasant quality to it. I enjoyed using it but at a point realised I had stopped taking photos with it.
I have the Panasonic 14mm f2.5 and I like it, but if you don't like the "rendering" of it then, no one can argue about that since it is a subjective judgement. I gather though that since your iPhone has taken the place of the 14mm and 12mm for your photos that you find the iPhone lens rendering to be superior. I have seen lots of iPhone photos and had never noticed the great rendering. Again, that is subjective though and if you do like it then that is all that matters.
 
Kinson, the problem with youth is that it's mostly wasted on the young; the problem with wisdom is that it is often wasted on the old.

It is also why it's almost impossible to teach the young anything - they already know everything ...

If you really think your photography cannot be improved except with new gear, I truly feel sorry for you
That's a popular meme and a terrible one at that.
Some things never really change. Most of the points made by Shakespeare in the early 1600s are as valid today as they were then. Of course, the term 'meme' was only coined around 1976 by Richard Dawkins ...

What I wrote not only predates the word 'meme', it predates me - probably by hundreds of years. It is just as true today as it was when Polonius said to Ophelia "Aye, daughter, springes to catch woodcocks ... " in Hamlet ...
If you want to take a picture of, say, a hummingbird in flight, with sharp feathers, and your old camera has a top shutter speed of 1/1000 while the latest has a top mechanical speed of 1/8000 and electronic of 1/16,000, which one will help you get the picture you are aiming for?

If you want to go to an auto race and get shots of full action, and your camera's continuous AF is severely lacking versus the latest model, which one will most likely get the keepers you are hoping for?

If you are shooting a fashion scene outdoors on a partly cloudy day, whilst using HSS fill flash, but your earlier body's TTL system is not as reliable as the latest body, which one will most likely bring home the keepers as well as creating an easier work environment with your model?

Composite high-res? Time lapse? Dim lighting and depending upon competent anti-shake?

All these and more may be available in upgrades that may allow you to get shots that would have taken great difficulty, thereby missing the moment, or maybe you couldn't get before at all.
Methinks you missed my point by at least a country mile ...

In case you missed it, both my E-M1 MkI & MkII do all those things pretty well. Many of them were done pretty well by my E-510 and my E-30.
 

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