Gray Market versus Actual Manfacturer

Black Elk said:

I am seeking some advice. Looking around the Internet it appears to me that gray market lens (international version/no warranty) are priced less than the equipment manufacturers product. What are the pros and cons? While the price is attractive, how does one know the true source of the gray market lens? Could it be a used lens? My sense is that purchasing from the original manufacturer is the safe way to go although you pay more. Hope I asked this correctly. I appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

Ed K.

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Grey market lenses ARE lenses by the actual manufacturer. So, your question doesn't really make sense. The only difference in a grey market lens is that the lens was intended for a different market (like, Asia) that may have different (less) wholesale/retail pricing. So, grey-market importers buy lenses in those markets and bring them here at a discount. Same lens as sold here in the USA but with two major differences: 1. it's cheaper and 2. NO USA MANUFACTURER WARRANTY. Since the lens was intended for a different market its manufacturer warranty is only valid in the market it was originally sold in. You will be on the hook for all repair costs even if inside the typical warranty period. Some importers offer a warranty but it is through them and not Sony / the manufacturer so, YMMV.

The difference for camera bodies could be even more as you have different video modes (PAL vs NTSC) which means the default frame rates for video would be specific to the intended market video standard. Some cameras have a toggle to change this, some don't. You also may not get a USA charger, but that depends on the importer.

The only way to avoid grey market lenses is to buy only from very reputable retailers as there are many online camera stores that sell well-priced items that are really a grey market lens/camera but will not disclose it (or it's hidden in fine print). Or they will list two of the same items and the expensive one will say "USA warranty" and the other one will say "sellers warranty." Guess which one is grey market!

The trick is to avoid paying taxes. That stores or sellers don't pay VAT(or whatever it's called) or get VAT return on those items hence sell equipment for less than stores with "official" supplies. It has nothing to do with item quality, it's just the same stuff but from another country/market.

Black Elk said:

What are the pros and cons?

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Pro: Lower price

Con: No warranty from the manufacturer

Black Elk said:

While the price is attractive, how does one know the true source of the gray market lens? Could it be a used lens?

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Gray market equipment is not used equipment. It's new and genuine, but without the manufacturer warranty. The retailer often provides a limited warranty instead, for whatever that's worth.

Black Elk said:

I am seeking some advice. Looking around the Internet it appears to me that gray market lens (international version/no warranty) are priced less than the equipment manufacturers product. What are the pros and cons? While the price is attractive, how does one know the true source of the gray market lens? Could it be a used lens? My sense is that purchasing from the original manufacturer is the safe way to go although you pay more. Hope I asked this correctly. I appreciate your thoughts.

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The term "gray market" means different things in different countries. But all products properly described and sold as gray market are new products made by the same company as the official versions.

In the U.S. and probably some other countries, "gray market" means products imported by a company other than the manufacturer's official U.S. affiliate / importer. Normally you buy a Canon camera that was manufactured by Canon (Japan) and imported by and sold through Canon U.S.A. That camera has a warranty from Canon U.S.A., and Canon U.S.A. will repair it if it breaks. But sometimes Big Joe's Import Co. buys a bunch of cameras manufactured by Canon (Japan) directly from either Canon (Japan) or the local Canon importer in another country, brings those cameras to the U.S., and sells them here--typically a prices lower than you could get the same camera through Canon U.S.A. But if that camera breaks, there is no warranty through Canon U.S.A., and in some cases, Canon U.S.A. will refuse to repair it. In the U.S., there is nothing illegal or unethical about selling or buying gray market products--as long as the seller properly discloses that the products are gray market.

In some countries other than the U.S., it is actually illegal to sell (and maybe even to buy) gray market products.

If you are in the U.S., the key question is will you save enough money buying gray market to offset no warranty or a most a third-party warranty, the possible refusal of the official U.S. affiliate to repair it, and the lower resale value? IMOPO the answer is usually 'no', but there are probably some exceptions.

Just a note about the "no warranty" thing.

I had a Tamron 17-50 Gray Market and I wanted it checked out by Tamron for some out of warranty repair that I was going to pay out of pocket for. They wouldn't even touch it. They sent it back.

EarlVonTapia said:

Just a note about the "no warranty" thing.

I had a Tamron 17-50 Gray Market and I wanted it checked out by Tamron for some out of warranty repair that I was going to pay out of pocket for. They wouldn't even touch it. They sent it back.

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That I would report to the antitrust authorities. Can get really expensive for Tamron.

Dirk W said:

EarlVonTapia said:

Just a note about the "no warranty" thing.

I had a Tamron 17-50 Gray Market and I wanted it checked out by Tamron for some out of warranty repair that I was going to pay out of pocket for. They wouldn't even touch it. They sent it back.

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That I would report to the antitrust authorities. Can get really expensive for Tamron.

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Interesting. exactly who are the antitrust authorities?

JAW

EarlVonTapia said:

Just a note about the "no warranty" thing.

I had a Tamron 17-50 Gray Market and I wanted it checked out by Tamron for some out of warranty repair that I was going to pay out of pocket for. They wouldn't even touch it. They sent it back.

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That's interesting. And what if you, say, buy a lens while traveling to Asia and get back to the USA and want out of warranty repair? That's basically the same as your situation.

Black Elk said:

I am seeking some advice. Looking around the Internet it appears to me that gray market lens (international version/no warranty) are priced less than the equipment manufacturers product. What are the pros and cons? While the price is attractive, how does one know the true source of the gray market lens? Could it be a used lens? My sense is that purchasing from the original manufacturer is the safe way to go although you pay more. Hope I asked this correctly. I appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

Ed K.

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Depends on the reputation and track record of the reseller. If they sell original product obtained in a low price market, fine. There is always a risk which can be minimized by doing proper reearch on the reseller and their track record.

rlyons said:

The difference for camera bodies could be even more as you have different video modes (PAL vs NTSC) which means the default frame rates for video would be specific to the intended market video standard. Some cameras have a toggle to change this, some don't. You also may not get a USA charger, but that depends on the importer.

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There's another problem with grey bodies - in some cases you can't get English menus. There've been a couple of recent threads where folks bought their cameras in China (including one from an American who lived there) and the menu had only a couple of language options which he couldn't read. You used to be able to change the language with Playmemories, but that isn't offered, if I recall correctly, on the latest models, like the AIII and A7rIII, though you can still, I believe, get Playmemories with earlier models. But, if you're going to buy one of these, check before you buy.

Black Elk said:

I am seeking some advice. Looking around the Internet it appears to me that gray market lens (international version/no warranty) are priced less than the equipment manufacturers product. What are the pros and cons? While the price is attractive, how does one know the true source of the gray market lens? Could it be a used lens? My sense is that purchasing from the original manufacturer is the safe way to go although you pay more. Hope I asked this correctly. I appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

Ed K.

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In some ways the official market has a massive insurance premium tacked on to the price in return for a warranty hidebound with provisions with no accident cover and invalid if the component shows the slightest scuff or scratch or any evidence it has been actually used which will be considered abuse of the product.

Dirk W said:

Dirk W said:

Just a note about the "no warranty" thing.

I had a Tamron 17-50 Gray Market and I wanted it checked out by Tamron for some out of warranty repair that I was going to pay out of pocket for. They wouldn't even touch it. They sent it back.

Click to expand...

That I would report to the antitrust authorities. Can get really expensive for Tamron.

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I don't know about in Luxembourg, but in the U.S. that would go nowhere. "Antitrust" is a U.S. legal term of art that I suspect does not mean what(ever) you think it means. But more than that, generally in the U.S. an official importer like Tamron U.S.A. would have every right to refuse to repair a lens that it did not import.

EarlVonTapia said:

Just a note about the "no warranty" thing.

I had a Tamron 17-50 Gray Market and I wanted it checked out by Tamron for some out of warranty repair that I was going to pay out of pocket for. They wouldn't even touch it. They sent it back.

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In the UK you would not be considered to have any contractual relationship with Tamron and your only recourse is against the retailer as you have no contract with the manufacturer. The warranty is more there to protect the retailer than the buyer of the kit and the warranty is a voluntary concession by the manufacturer. Possibly Canada is different but difficult to imagine the maker of goods has some blanket legal liability for the longevity of anything they make with whoever it ends up with it by whatever route.

Often the respectable suppliers of grey market stuff give better warranties than the manufacturers which they would need to do to maintain their reputation if they care about these things.

NAwlins Contrarian said:

NAwlins Contrarian said:

NAwlins Contrarian said:

Just a note about the "no warranty" thing.

I had a Tamron 17-50 Gray Market and I wanted it checked out by Tamron for some out of warranty repair that I was going to pay out of pocket for. They wouldn't even touch it. They sent it back.

Click to expand...

That I would report to the antitrust authorities. Can get really expensive for Tamron.

Click to expand...

I don't know about in Luxembourg, but in the U.S. that would go nowhere. "Antitrust" is a U.S. legal term of art that I suspect does not mean what(ever) you think it means. But more than that, generally in the U.S. an official importer like Tamron U.S.A. would have every right to refuse to repair a lens that it did not import.

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In Europe, such behavior can be very expensive depending on market share and justification for such refusal.

maccam said:

Dirk W said:

EarlVonTapia said:

Just a note about the "no warranty" thing.

I had a Tamron 17-50 Gray Market and I wanted it checked out by Tamron for some out of warranty repair that I was going to pay out of pocket for. They wouldn't even touch it. They sent it back.

Click to expand...

That I would report to the antitrust authorities. Can get really expensive for Tamron.

Click to expand...

Interesting. exactly who are the antitrust authorities?

JAW

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Since Earl is in Canada, here you go:

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/home

Thanks for the good info.