Anyone come across any banding issues yet?

John Sheehy said:

Mako2011 said:

Thoughts R Us said:

More professional images and award winning photos have been taken with supposedly inferior Canon sensors for years now. That shows more the deficiencies of the way some evaluate sensors than any problem with Canon equipment.

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That doesn't mean that the Canon sensors aren't historically more prone to FPN by thier design than some other sensors when shooting/processing at the limits. It's only an issue when shooting at the extremes but folks shouldn't not push there photography to the extremes if they want. Lots of ways to deal well with FPN. I've seen a lot of extreme 5DIII images, for example, show a lot of FPN that cleaned up pretty well in PP....to the point of not having a practical affect on the final result. In this case....good to test/learn....schools still out as to how well the EOS R deals with FPN.

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Most banding noise is not FPN. I don't know how the two ever came to be equated.

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True...I often put the two (FPN and Banding noise) in the same category (separate from random noise. Sorry. That said, I do think some of the latest 3rd party NR programs do a great job of making Banding noise much less an issue than it once was

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

mmeerdam said:

Came here to check if others experienced it.

I just tested my new Eos r and pushed an underexposed shot 3,4 and 5 stops and in the darker parts I see massive banding. It shows up even at 2,5 stop push now.

I didn't notice it before in outdoor shots but this is a dimly lit room at 5 o clock in the afternoon and I can't push shadows more than 2,5 stops.

I think I'm going to return the camera, my 5d4 doesn't show any banding.

I'm truly bummed out!!! I loved the camera despite of the missing dials and buttons from my 5d4


2,5 stop push 100 crop / iso 100, 1.4 , 1/160


5 stop push 100 crop / iso 100, 1.4 , 1/160

edit: I am used to not being able to push 5 stops. but not being able to push 2,5 is useless for underexposing landscapes, cityscapes and even backlit subjects. as with a moderate push and some shadow boost there's banding already

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Please post a link to the original CR3 file.

peterpet said:

David Hull said:

The camera offers the CR2 format (just RAW), anyone try that?

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Eos R using CR3, not CR2.
I try to push CR3 file as far as I can using DPP and do not find any banding.
Just get almost same result with my 5D Mark IV.

Maybe for certain condition it is appear.
Or maybe by convert it to DNG then adjusting with lightroom it is appear.

Absolutely nothing to worry for me.

Best regards,
Peter

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I see that there are two RAW options in the camera, I wondered if the issue was different in one from the other.

Mako2011 said:

Thoughts R Us said:

More professional images and award winning photos have been taken with supposedly inferior Canon sensors for years now. That shows more the deficiencies of the way some evaluate sensors than any problem with Canon equipment.

Click to expand...

That doesn't mean that the Canon sensors aren't historically more prone to FPN by thier design than some other sensors when shooting/processing at the limits. It's only an issue when shooting at the extremes but folks shouldn't not push there photography to the extremes if they want. Lots of ways to deal well with FPN. I've seen a lot of extreme 5DIII images, for example, show a lot of FPN that cleaned up pretty well in PP....to the point of not having a practical affect on the final result. In this case....good to test/learn....schools still out as to how well the EOS R deals with FPN.

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I totally agree that it's a fascinating academic issue. I always enjoy reading folks like Bill Claff and Jim Kasson on stuff like this.

But information needs proper context to be properly understood. One thing I appreciate about people like Bill and Jim is that in their analysis they do try to remind people of the context and most definitely do not over react.

And my commentary is simply to try to remind people of the context. I see some are already over reacting as if this is the worst flaw in the entire world. Again, this reminds me of the HiFi era, where people would criticize equipment based on differences they could never hear. It was a shame because some of the best equipment didn't necessarily have the best specs but did have the best sound.

I remember once I tried out a pair of speakers which didn't have the super highs or super lows of some other brands, but boy did it produce the sound in the range of hearing that people can actually hear. Yet because it was harder to put a number on that some might dismiss the product.

In fact one thing I learned from that era was this: the true audiophiles...the people who loved music the most and listened to it the most and used the highest end and best equipment...they always talked about the sound...they usually used subjective and emotional words. The other people talked in terms of numbers and specs and curves and chose lesser equipment because of it. They gravitated towards the bells and whistles.

Hoka Hey said:

mmeerdam said:

Came here to check if others experienced it.

I just tested my new Eos r and pushed an underexposed shot 3,4 and 5 stops and in the darker parts I see massive banding. It shows up even at 2,5 stop push now.

I didn't notice it before in outdoor shots but this is a dimly lit room at 5 o clock in the afternoon and I can't push shadows more than 2,5 stops.

I think I'm going to return the camera, my 5d4 doesn't show any banding.

I'm truly bummed out!!! I loved the camera despite of the missing dials and buttons from my 5d4


2,5 stop push 100 crop / iso 100, 1.4 , 1/160


5 stop push 100 crop / iso 100, 1.4 , 1/160

edit: I am used to not being able to push 5 stops. but not being able to push 2,5 is useless for underexposing landscapes, cityscapes and even backlit subjects. as with a moderate push and some shadow boost there's banding already

Click to expand...

Please post a link to the original CR3 file.

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I won't because of the mess that was on my table, but I just made one as an example (nothing photographically worth it mind you) that bands like crazy when pushing 3 stops or more. cr3 and DNG included:

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/21...96d4865e5d77b1f9f8cc0e3e20181014152001/b3e0a5

mariuss said:

Are the files with banding in RAW normal or DUAL PIXEL RAW?

I think that could be the answer. Please check

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here it is:


Left Dual Pixel Raw - Right normal Raw


Left Dual Pixel Raw - Right normal Raw

mariuss said:

mariuss said:

Are the files with banding in RAW normal or DUAL PIXEL RAW?

I think that could be the answer. Please check

Click to expand...

here it is:


Left Dual Pixel Raw - Right normal Raw


Left Dual Pixel Raw - Right normal Raw

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How much push do these have?

--
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/drhull
SmugMug: http://davidhull.smugmug.com/

EV 0 (not underexposed ...)

Brightness adjustment +3

Shadow +5

Hi mmeerdam, only one question, I have the EF 70-300 DO, and sometimes I have banding on my camera. Never have been banding with another lens, so i look for the trouble in internet, and sometimes, some lens produce banding.

I don´t what is your lens, but have you tried another lens ??

It´s only an idea, but real in my case

Regards (and sorry my english)

Is there already a conclusion?

My camera sits in its box and im thinking about returning it.

be solved anytime soon. So imo, you should not hesitate returning that camera.

This is about the same amount of banding I was seeing yesterday. Oddly enough, I changed something, and I don't get it anymore, there could still be a it, but it's now very hard to determine if it's not just my eyes.

jemaw11 said:

Hi mmeerdam, only one question, I have the EF 70-300 DO, and sometimes I have banding on my camera. Never have been banding with another lens, so i look for the trouble in internet, and sometimes, some lens produce banding.

I don´t what is your lens, but have you tried another lens ??

It´s only an idea, but real in my case

Regards (and sorry my english)

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HI jemaw11, tried different lenses.

Same thing for all. Thanks for the tip!

wish it was the lens

I also tried hard today to reproduce that and got only 1 picture where I succeded. And I compared to the 6D

And what should I say, even with those small bands in the lower part, it's way better than the 6D when you push 5 stops and +100% shadow in LR with the exported TIFF.

In a High ISO comparison between 6D and EOS R, 6D seems to be a bit better, but EOS R has more pixels, so it should be even. And no banding here. And when you see whats possible with the 6D (the picture at the end) there should be no problem doing this with the EOS R.

It seems only to happen in LOW ISO (100 or so) together with pushing some stops. And even then it's better than my old 6D. Way better than me old 7D Mark II which the EOS R will now replace.

I'm happy.

DeeNikon said:

Is there already a conclusion?

My camera sits in its box and im thinking about returning it.

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Most stores have a 30 day return, no questions ask. Should be no problem if you gave it a try, then decide to return or not.

klausd said:

I'm happy.

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I was reading this thread, and I got curious, so I tried to replicate this with my M5. And, funny enough, in the same conditions I got some banding.

Banding that in 2years, and over 50k shots I never noticed before.

Not happy. (kidding, I am!)

zbh said:

This is about the same amount of banding I was seeing yesterday. Oddly enough, I changed something, and I don't get it anymore, there could still be a it, but it's now very hard to determine if it's not just my eyes.

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Battery level? Internal temperature? Number of things drawing current in camera or lens during readout?

wmlele said:

klausd said:

I'm happy.

Click to expand...

I was reading this thread, and I got curious, so I tried to replicate this with my M5. And, funny enough, in the same conditions I got some banding.

Banding that in 2years, and over 50k shots I never noticed before.

Not happy. (kidding, I am!)

Click to expand...

I also feel confused to see so many banding images in this thread.

I try several time to push my images and didn't get those overly banding image.
If we push too much, it is appear a little.. but it is the same with 5D Mark IV.
In my opinion, it is very normal..

Here my try;


Push the exposure to the max (+5)


Push the exposure and shadow to the max (+5 and +100)

In this extreme condition It shows some banding..
My 5D Mark IV also has the same banding if you push it that far..
However it is still very good and very normal.

Best regards,
Peter

peterpet said:

wmlele said:

klausd said:

I'm happy.

Click to expand...

I was reading this thread, and I got curious, so I tried to replicate this with my M5. And, funny enough, in the same conditions I got some banding.

Banding that in 2years, and over 50k shots I never noticed before.

Not happy. (kidding, I am!)

Click to expand...

I also feel confused to see so many banding images in this thread.

I try several time to push my images and didn't get those overly banding image.
If we push too much, it is appear a little.. but it is the same with 5D Mark IV.
In my opinion, it is very normal..

Here my try;


Push the exposure to the max (+5)


Push the exposure and shadow to the max (+5 and +100)

In this extreme condition It shows some banding..
My 5D Mark IV also has the same banding if you push it that far..
However it is still very good and very normal.

Best regards,
Peter

Click to expand...

Can you post same sample shot with the 5d iv?

Interesting