Future of m 4/3? Something up their sleeve?

Yes, an even better sensor would be nice, but will not save mFT, or especially Olympus. A larger sensor would make them lose their size & weight advantage.

What they should do instead i.m.o., is come up with better image processing.

You do not need a better sensor for this, but fast lenses. Look what Google/Apple/Huawei can do in their phones. I want this in my Olympus camera, too. Especially better HDR and low light stacking. Also multi-part white balance. Better video is essential, too. Not for me, I rarely use it, but for many of the so called "vloggers".

All this FF hype is ridiculous to me. I mostly need more DOF but do not want to stop down because of light, especially when I travel.

I hope they will go this direction...

Cheers,
Michael
Yes... sensor size will always be a factor but I do believe at some stage software will become a factor in dedicated cameras that together with a sensor breakthrough will create an IQ that most people will (eventually) realise is greater than they need and make them embrace more compact equipment. I am no expert in software tricks but if sensor readout is happening at 1/1000 and 480 fps buffered then shots could be stacked in most situations to produce improvements in high ISO and low light for example and handheld High Res etc.
 
Oh and about a better sensor
dual native sensitivity is what I would like to see...
that could be true but it wouldn't put them in a position better than the larger ones
how much larger? the gap between 4/3 and apc is not significant, once you factor in the aspect ratio
since that tech will almost certainly be able to be scaled up raising that bar even further.

But between that and processing improvements image quality is improving and the question is more how much resolution and low light performance do you need? If Olympus can offer enough along with a good price/smaller form factor that is a solid niche.

I wouldn't worry too much about all of this though. The cameras work fine right now so just enjoy them and keep shooting!
It still is even with the aspect ratio at least with the EM-10 mkII VS D7200 the latter has more dynamic range and better high ISO performance even when cropped to 4x5. The Olympus sensor is very competent and can be used to capture some great images it's just not to the same level and I have to shoot about a stop lower ISO wise for similar results. Also it's noise is a bit less pleasing though that's more a personal preference issue.

So you'd have coinciding increases in APS-C and full frame most likely unless whatever technology it is loses efficiency as its' scaled up.
 
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The only things I want Olympus to have up their sleeve are improvements to the E-M1.2 via firmware updates.

IMO they should improve the AF performance and give us some new features that are broadly useful. I feel that the promise of this camera remains unfulfilled, especially given the price we early adopters paid for it.

I for one won’t be rushing out to buy Olympus’ new camera model that again promises to be the revolution for sports and wildlife and speed.

Peter
 
With everyone mixing up the market ya have to wonder what Olympus has in store for their future. Fuji and Pentax wen Med format. Panny went FF. Canon and Nikon are now pushing into the mirrorless market etc.
Canon and Nikon went FF mirrorless to stop the bleeding to Sony, nothing more. If they truly believed that mirrorless was the future they would have produced cameras that were the equal of their DSLRs, and they did not.
I may be an Olympus loyalist /slappy/fanboy for thinking this way. But I can't help but think Olympus is not just sitting on their hands waiting to get pushed out of the market of camera making. I can't help but feel they have had something planned for this format and have been working on perfecting it. m 4/3 is still IMO the best bang for your buck on the market and they started 4/3 to reduce size. They have done that with m 4/3. They seem to have a solid group of users and people switching over all the time.
My m43 system is brand new so I can corroborate with at least one data point.
But whats in store for this system? They keep producing top notch lenses that surpass the abilities of the current sensors. There are a few sensor rumors out there. Is this the future they have known they would get too? A smaller sensor that performs as well as a larger sensor? Or even better?
I really think this is mostly a case of wishful thinking. Sensor technology has already progressed to the point that there's not much gains to be had, if you're keeping with Bayer filters.

Remember that there's nothing unique about m43 sensors, and any sensational new tech could be applied to other sensors as well.

Top notch lenses are definitely an attraction of the current lineup.
If this is possible and it does happen. I could see a major shake up in the industry. I don't see them going FF or Med format. It would be exciting to see them do something that turns everything upside down. They have always been ahead when it comes to putting new technology in their bodies and options the PRO's laughed at so many years ago. Swivel screen, touch screen, mirrorless etc.

So what do you think? Either way I'm happy with my Olympus gear and have no desire to switch to any other system. But, I wonder how many others feel the same.
I'm an APS-C user for over 10 years. I had the choice of going either larger or smaller. I went smaller.
 
"Remember that there's nothing unique about m43 sensors, and any sensational new tech could be applied to other sensors as well."

I keep hearing the above... or similar. The point isn't that small sensors will advance more than larger ones, but that they will get good enough, along with improvements (breakthroughs?) in software/processing power - that almost no one would need better IQ!
 
"Remember that there's nothing unique about m43 sensors, and any sensational new tech could be applied to other sensors as well."

I keep hearing the above... or similar. The point isn't that small sensors will advance more than larger ones, but that they will get good enough, along with improvements (breakthroughs?) in software/processing power - that almost no one would need better IQ!
The problem is that "good enough" never is. Once something better becomes possible, everybody wants it. It's the history of the business to date. Who really needs more than 10MP, yet how many cameras are offered with such low resolution?
 
Olympus, the company is going to be 100 years old in 2019. They are a very large and diverse company with their primary focus being in the scientific, medical and industrial areas. They made their first camera in 1936. Their first Olympus PEN in 1959. The first OM film camera was introduced in 1973 and while it wasn't a big name in the consumer market it was big in the medical and scientific markets. I think their first digital consumer camera was released in 1997. the made the worlds first weatherproof compact digital camera in 2003. They made the first compact digital "rugged" camera that was shockproof and usable underwater without a housing in 2006. The Olympus E-1 came in 2003. Then the OLYMPUS PEN E-P1, the company's first mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera compliant with the Micro Four Thirds System standard.

Etc. etc. Olympus has had numerous innovative camera products of several decades. They are not the most prolific producer but command tremendous loyalty among many professionals and amateurs. And many of their products have been truly innovative, sometimes. Contrary to rumor and speculation, Olympus is still innovating across all their companies markets including cameras. They are not always the first, or always the quickest with innovations, but they have been producing cameras for more than 80 years. 2019 I strongly feel will be their next year of innovation. They already have a very strong amateur and professional lens line but will continue to develop it.

I don't know what they are planning, but I wouldn't be surprised to see improvements in sensors, image quality, and overall speed with possible future innovative features. I am 90% certain they will expand their professional and improve their amateur lens lines. I am feel about 90% certain there will be sensor improvements but I don't know in what area. I do imagine more innovation in their higher end (EM5 and EM1) lines and incremental improvements (features) in their entry level lines.

The equipment geeks cry doom and gloom if there isn't something new every year and then complain when improvements aren't what they themselves specifically wanted insisting that what they want must be what everyone wants.

Olympus is a practical company, not so faddish as some. They design and build for functionality but also build in tremendous innovation. They take their time.

Nikon and Canon are the old stalwarts of the camera industry. Sony is the prolific producer with a huge variety but sometimes lack finesse and refinement in many of their models. Panasonic has the resources to be a prolific player in many ways but especially video. They have their own cult followings but are practical overall and big enough they can afford to be patient. They also form effective "partnerships such as with Olympus in M43, and the L mount group."

Olympus will survive, at least for the foreseeable future. I suspect and truly hope 2019 will be their next year of great innovation. But what really matters is that my Oly EM5-II camera works. It works very well, and it still takes great photos. If my photos aren't great, that is my fault as photographer. I learned how to shoot sports, action, portraits, weddings, military photography, scientific photography, medical photography and more with slow manual cameras and no automation. I did the various jobs well because the responsibility was mine, not my cameras. The camera is a tool. I love the great innovations I have seen over the last few decades but the simple fact is, success or failure is the responsibility of the photographer, not the equipment.

I love my Olympus and Panasonic cameras. They are empowering in so many ways. They make the science and the art of photography so much more fun and easier. But in the end, it is my vision, not my camera that makes the difference.

The rumors of Olympus demise are figmants in the imagination of the impatient and the unskilled. But if Olympus did some day get out of the camera business, while I will be sad, there will still be other options. But no matter the camera or the producer, the responsibility for the photography, the stories, the memories, the inspiration, lies only with me, the photographer.

For now though, my camera is an Olympus OMD-EM5-II and I am not worried.
 
With everyone mixing up the market ya have to wonder what Olympus has in store for their future. Fuji and Pentax wen Med format. Panny went FF. Canon and Nikon are now pushing into the mirrorless market etc.

I may be an Olympus loyalist /slappy/fanboy for thinking this way. But I can't help but think Olympus is not just sitting on their hands waiting to get pushed out of the market of camera making. I can't help but feel they have had something planned for this format and have been working on perfecting it. m 4/3 is still IMO the best bang for your buck on the market and they started 4/3 to reduce size. They have done that with m 4/3. They seem to have a solid group of users and people switching over all the time.
Except that they went the other way around lately with size.
But whats in store for this system? They keep producing top notch lenses that surpass the abilities of the current sensors. There are a few sensor rumors out there. Is this the future they have known they would get too? A smaller sensor that performs as well as a larger sensor? Or even better?
I have read about this so many times. Nope, any benefit for a smaller sensor would pretty much translate for a bigger one.
If this is possible and it does happen. I could see a major shake up in the industry.
Not really happening.
I don't see them going FF or Med format. It would be exciting to see them do something that turns everything upside down. They have always been ahead when it comes to putting new technology in their bodies and options the PRO's laughed at so many years ago. Swivel screen, touch screen, mirrorless etc.

So what do you think? Either way I'm happy with my Olympus gear and have no desire to switch to any other system. But, I wonder how many others feel the same.
I don't see any of what you said happening. What Olympus could do that would be great is make a top pro camera no bigger than an OMD EM5 MKIII, offer a grip + battery for those who want/need bigger grip and battery, re-issue the small primes weather sealed and with better tolerances - in particularly that F1.8 45mm.

Go thew way of doing EM1's MKII's and F1.2 Pro lenses without paying attention to smaller, and I can see them going the same way 4/3rds did.
 
"Remember that there's nothing unique about m43 sensors, and any sensational new tech could be applied to other sensors as well."

I keep hearing the above... or similar. The point isn't that small sensors will advance more than larger ones, but that they will get good enough, along with improvements (breakthroughs?) in software/processing power - that almost no one would need better IQ!
The problem is that "good enough" never is. Once something better becomes possible, everybody wants it. It's the history of the business to date. Who really needs more than 10MP, yet how many cameras are offered with such low resolution?
Audio is a prime example that "good enough", together with enhanced convenience, can cause people to no longer want (need) better. SACD and DVD-A are all but extinct.

In fact, smart phones are something similar. Compacts with zooms are better, yet they are gone, because phones are good enough and more convenient.

And as far as m4/3 is concerned, a lot of advanced users (including several pro photographers) realised it is good enough already and that almost no one need better IQ. If it is good enough for a pro working for a NatGeo (and it is), it's good enough for almost everybody. The question is, when will almost everybody realised that ;-)
 
"Remember that there's nothing unique about m43 sensors, and any sensational new tech could be applied to other sensors as well."

I keep hearing the above... or similar. The point isn't that small sensors will advance more than larger ones, but that they will get good enough, along with improvements (breakthroughs?) in software/processing power - that almost no one would need better IQ!
The problem is that "good enough" never is. Once something better becomes possible, everybody wants it. It's the history of the business to date. Who really needs more than 10MP, yet how many cameras are offered with such low resolution?
Audio is a prime example that "good enough", together with enhanced convenience, can cause people to no longer want (need) better. SACD and DVD-A are all but extinct.

In fact, smart phones are something similar. Compacts with zooms are better, yet they are gone, because phones are good enough and more convenient.

And as far as m4/3 is concerned, a lot of advanced users (including several pro photographers) realised it is good enough already and that almost no one need better IQ. If it is good enough for a pro working for a NatGeo (and it is), it's good enough for almost everybody. The question is, when will almost everybody realised that ;-)
just because something is "good enough" doesn't mean people will buy it, there has to be compelling reasons for people to switch or buy into a new system, i don't think any manufacturer would advertise saying their products were good enough
 
"Remember that there's nothing unique about m43 sensors, and any sensational new tech could be applied to other sensors as well."

I keep hearing the above... or similar. The point isn't that small sensors will advance more than larger ones, but that they will get good enough, along with improvements (breakthroughs?) in software/processing power - that almost no one would need better IQ!
The problem is that "good enough" never is. Once something better becomes possible, everybody wants it. It's the history of the business to date. Who really needs more than 10MP, yet how many cameras are offered with such low resolution?
Audio is a prime example that "good enough", together with enhanced convenience, can cause people to no longer want (need) better. SACD and DVD-A are all but extinct.

In fact, smart phones are something similar. Compacts with zooms are better, yet they are gone, because phones are good enough and more convenient.

And as far as m4/3 is concerned, a lot of advanced users (including several pro photographers) realised it is good enough already and that almost no one need better IQ. If it is good enough for a pro working for a NatGeo (and it is), it's good enough for almost everybody. The question is, when will almost everybody realised that ;-)
just because something is "good enough" doesn't mean people will buy it, there has to be compelling reasons for people to switch or buy into a new system, i don't think any manufacturer would advertise saying their products were good enough
How then is MP3 audio advertised?
 
With everyone mixing up the market ya have to wonder what Olympus has in store for their future. Fuji and Pentax wen Med format. Panny went FF. Canon and Nikon are now pushing into the mirrorless market etc.

I may be an Olympus loyalist /slappy/fanboy for thinking this way. But I can't help but think Olympus is not just sitting on their hands waiting to get pushed out of the market of camera making. I can't help but feel they have had something planned for this format and have been working on perfecting it. m 4/3 is still IMO the best bang for your buck on the market and they started 4/3 to reduce size. They have done that with m 4/3. They seem to have a solid group of users and people switching over all the time.

But whats in store for this system? They keep producing top notch lenses that surpass the abilities of the current sensors. There are a few sensor rumors out there. Is this the future they have known they would get too? A smaller sensor that performs as well as a larger sensor? Or even better?

If this is possible and it does happen. I could see a major shake up in the industry. I don't see them going FF or Med format. It would be exciting to see them do something that turns everything upside down. They have always been ahead when it comes to putting new technology in their bodies and options the PRO's laughed at so many years ago. Swivel screen, touch screen, mirrorless etc.

So what do you think? Either way I'm happy with my Olympus gear and have no desire to switch to any other system. But, I wonder how many others feel the same.


It doesn't take much foresight to see that Olympus really should put a 4/3" sensor in their line of Tough Cameras.






The blind can cross over the street here

After all, it does look as though Olympus is going to be the only devoted player in the 4/3" sensor game from here on out.

The others seem to be chasing each other to the bottom of the barrel, trying to increase the size of their sensors.

4/3" is plenty. Even 2/3" is pretty good.



--
Humansville is a town in the Missouri Ozarks
 

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It doesn't take much foresight to see that Olympus really should put a 4/3" sensor in their line of Tough Cameras.

After all, it does look as though Olympus is going to be the only devoted player in the 4/3" sensor game from here on out.

The others seem to be chasing each other to the bottom of the barrel, trying to increase the size of their sensors.

4/3" is plenty. Even 2/3" is pretty good.
That is not going to be that easy Humansvillian. The Tough is a rather special beast. It uses a "folded" lens design to save space:



f349aeed4a2d48caa77abc6902debc76.jpg





A larger sensor is going to impact badly on camera size.
 
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It doesn't take much foresight to see that Olympus really should put a 4/3" sensor in their line of Tough Cameras.


The blind can cross over the street here

After all, it does look as though Olympus is going to be the only devoted player in the 4/3" sensor game from here on out.

The others seem to be chasing each other to the bottom of the barrel, trying to increase the size of their sensors.

4/3" is plenty. Even 2/3" is pretty good.
A 4/3 sensor in a tough camera would be nice, but much larger. I would be thrilled if they did one with a 1" sensor. 2/3" sensor is adequate, but not really enough in my mind. I have wondered why no one has produced tough cameras with larger sensors. Well no that I know of other then Leica and their Leica X-U and it costs $3,500 with a fixed Leica Summilux 23 mm f/1.7 and has an APS-C sensor. On second thought, Olympus should do a tough 4/3" sensor. Maybe with a moderate zoom. Olympus does know tough cameras. They have lead in that market since 2003. So a larger sensor tough camera should be no problem for them.

I would not believe the forum hype though. Panasonic will continue to be a factor in 4/3 sensor cameras for some time as well.

--
- David
"The only good camera is the one you have with you when opportunity provides."
Through David's Eye: https://throughdavidseye.wordpress.com
 
"Remember that there's nothing unique about m43 sensors, and any sensational new tech could be applied to other sensors as well."

I keep hearing the above... or similar. The point isn't that small sensors will advance more than larger ones, but that they will get good enough, along with improvements (breakthroughs?) in software/processing power - that almost no one would need better IQ!
 
It doesn't take much foresight to see that Olympus really should put a 4/3" sensor in their line of Tough Cameras.

After all, it does look as though Olympus is going to be the only devoted player in the 4/3" sensor game from here on out.

The others seem to be chasing each other to the bottom of the barrel, trying to increase the size of their sensors.

4/3" is plenty. Even 2/3" is pretty good.
That is not going to be that easy Humansvillian. The Tough is a rather special beast. It uses a "folded" lens design to save space:

f349aeed4a2d48caa77abc6902debc76.jpg

A larger sensor is going to impact badly on camera size.


Then why not make a Tough PM2?






Busker





--
Humansville is a town in the Missouri Ozarks
 
It doesn't take much foresight to see that Olympus really should put a 4/3" sensor in their line of Tough Cameras.


The blind can cross over the street here

After all, it does look as though Olympus is going to be the only devoted player in the 4/3" sensor game from here on out.

The others seem to be chasing each other to the bottom of the barrel, trying to increase the size of their sensors.

4/3" is plenty. Even 2/3" is pretty good.
A 4/3 sensor in a tough camera would be nice, but much larger. I would be thrilled if they did one with a 1" sensor. 2/3" sensor is adequate, but not really enough in my mind. I have wondered why no one has produced tough cameras with larger sensors. Well no that I know of other then Leica and their Leica X-U and it costs $3,500 with a fixed Leica Summilux 23 mm f/1.7 and has an APS-C sensor. On second thought, Olympus should do a tough 4/3" sensor. Maybe with a moderate zoom. Olympus does know tough cameras. They have lead in that market since 2003. So a larger sensor tough camera should be no problem for them.

I would not believe the forum hype though. Panasonic will continue to be a factor in 4/3 sensor cameras for some time as well.
I hope Pansasonic keeps making cheap fast lenses for my Oly.

My wife's favorite rice cooker is a Panasonic, but if you go to hospitals Olympus makes medical endosocope cameras that go inside the human body.

I'd say Oympus can put any size sensor in a Tough Camera even better than Panasonic makes tabletop and built in mircrowave ovens.

Oly is an imagining company, period.

Even a PL1 size Oly Tough Camera would fit in your pocket.




Used Flag Deposit Box by the Osage River



--
Humansville is a town in the Missouri Ozarks
 

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It doesn't take much foresight to see that Olympus really should put a 4/3" sensor in their line of Tough Cameras.

After all, it does look as though Olympus is going to be the only devoted player in the 4/3" sensor game from here on out.

The others seem to be chasing each other to the bottom of the barrel, trying to increase the size of their sensors.

4/3" is plenty. Even 2/3" is pretty good.
That is not going to be that easy Humansvillian. The Tough is a rather special beast. It uses a "folded" lens design to save space:

f349aeed4a2d48caa77abc6902debc76.jpg

A larger sensor is going to impact badly on camera size.
Then why not make a Tough PM2?
I fear the size advantage of a "folded lens" would get lost if you increase sensor size. All lens parts would become bigger too, to cover the larger sensor.

The other way seems more promising, the same "folded lens" principle for smaller phone sensors:

4a64d22d80954df6a7c5c3ac8b7fd003.jpg

They call this a "periscope lens"
 

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