Breakthrough Photography Magnetic Filters

Terri ; that was one fantastic post!

I have not gone the filter kit route yet.

Have too much invested in screw on filters (mostly all from Breakthrough) so probably never will but the post was very informative.

mreynolds767 said:

Terri ; that was one fantastic post!

I have not gone the filter kit route yet.

Have too much invested in screw on filters (mostly all from Breakthrough) so probably never will but the post was very informative.

Click to expand...

Thanks if you read my followup after talking to Graham from Breakthrough I do not think there is any question screw on filters with step up rings make the most sense.

I do like the Kase filter holder for Breakthough's GND's however. Best glass with smallest easist to use filter holder I have found. I cannot wait to experiment with my new GND's

What do you mean when you say “they pulled them from the site?”

I’ve just ordered a full magnetic kit from them.

In my view step-up rings are a pain in the butt, which is why I chose not to go with Kase or Nisi, just too fiddly in the field. On the weekend I used the BT system in the field shooting waterfalls and it’s excellent. Just attach one ring to the lens, drop in the Dark CPL, rotate and you’re done.

i can’t wait for the new magnetic wheels to arrive, as rotation will be a touch easier.

I no longer own any 100x100mm ND Filters as they are now all magnetic in CPL, 3-stop and 6-stop Dark CPL, 10-stop and Night Filter.

2351HD said:

What do you mean when you say “they pulled them from the site?”

I’ve just ordered a full magnetic kit from them.

In my view step-up rings are a pain in the butt, which is why I chose not to go with Kase or Nisi, just too fiddly in the field. On the weekend I used the BT system in the field shooting waterfalls and it’s excellent. Just attach one ring to the lens, drop in the Dark CPL, rotate and you’re done.

i can’t wait for the new magnetic wheels to arrive, as rotation will be a touch easier.

I no longer own any 100x100mm ND Filters as they are now all magnetic in CPL, 3-stop and 6-stop Dark CPL, 10-stop and Night Filter.

Click to expand...

I just spoke to him for 45 min I told him the same thing that the XD ND still had the magnetic filter on his site. He is the industrial designer and not that on top of things when it comes to how the company opererates or web site he is spread pretty thin.

I have the 77mm wheel and it is better but also thicker and too large for what it does IMO. It is still jerky and I find a silly way to accomplish the task of rotating the CPL and greatly prefer the Kase magnetic CPL with its traditional knurled edge to rotate it like screw on CPL's.

Graham is a designer and is very interested in customer feedback on how his products work and feel and we discussed the CPL operation. He was open to what I liked or preferred on the Kase filter adapter and how the wheel rotates the CPL much smoother. But in the end I am very much against magnetic filters now period in any shape of form, read on.

He told me five times he is not a proponent of magnetic filters and said he says right on their site (I did not see it) that magnetic filters are not designed to replace screw-on filters. They are for people who use square filters a lot and he does not like square filters for ND's because of light leakage. With the GND's that is not an issue with the faster shutter speeds.

I do not mean to disagree as I went that route too with the Breakthrough magnetic system it seemed like a neat set up. But after playing with them for several weeks the whole thing just made no sense and frankly is a pain in the butt from a handling, storage and usability standpoint. You might come to the same conclusion as I did once you try them out yourself. In any event I will give you my two cents and what the Graham himself said about them.

The screw-on filters are much more straightforward and easer to use. With the magnetic setup from Breakthough you either have to store six huge 105mm multi-piece adapter rings which take up a lot of room or you have to screw in a step up ring per Graham, then screw in the magnetic adapter ring into the step-up ring then plop the magnetic filter in which is a three-step process and a waste of time.

Three steps insead of two when you traditionally use a step up ring then the filter which rotates like it is designed to. For the ND's you stop light leakage in its tracks versus square filters.

The only issue he said is some vignetting at 16mm with round filters be it screw on or magnetic.

I have as many lenses as anyone and 90% of them are 62, 67, 72, 77 or 82mm.

I will take four high quality solid yet thin high quality Breakthrough brass step up rings to 82mm any day of the week in place 105mm multi-piece rotating Breakthrough's adapter rings.

Typically I only employ two of them the 72 or 77 anyway so it is a very small price to pay for eliminating a dozen filters and works quite well.

We can agree that Breakthough has some exciting products and what I feel it the best glass from a sharpness and neutrality standpoint that money can buy.


Breakthrough knurled brass step-up ring


Breakthrough adapter ring and magnetic filter 105mm in diamter cannot fit in cargo shorts or camera bag lens slots due to size and no lens caps




Breakthrough adapter ring




New Breakthrough 77mm wheel for magnetic filters still 105mm in diameter too large



--
-Terry
https://you pic.com/photographer/TerryRStahly/?mode=portfolio
https://trstahly.format.com/work#
https://500px.com/trstahly

So let me get this right, you’re saying that they are going to stop selling the magnetic system, is that correct? And the owner said this and also said that he doesn’t like the system.

Ive used many filter systems and the method I hate the most is using step-up rings, especially with polarizers, in the field, when your hands are cold etc

If you use step up rings with a circ polarizer, then what do you do when you want to use a ND Grad, screw the holder ring into the front of the polarizer, terrible idea.

Each to their own, I’ll stick to the magnetic way I think as I find it quite convenient as I never take more lenses with me that have more than 2 filter sizes anyway.

2351HD said:

So let me get this right, you’re saying that they are going to stop selling the magnetic system, is that correct? And the owner said this and also said that he doesn’t like the system.

Ive used many filter systems and the method I hate the most is using step-up rings, especially with polarizers, in the field, when your hands are cold etc

If you use step up rings with a circ polarizer, then what do you do when you want to use a ND Grad, screw the holder ring into the front of the polarizer, terrible idea.

Each to their own, I’ll stick to the magnetic way I think as I find it quite convenient as I never take more lenses with me that have more than 2 filter sizes anyway.

Click to expand...

Before I forget here is a very good comparison on ND filters for color cast and sharpness.


I did not say that, I said the the owner of the company told me they removed them from their web site. He told me the adapter rings which are nothing more than the step up rings you say you hate are prototypes and not finished products and that is why they are only $12.00

I presume they are rethinking the adapters and sizes from our discussion, he said he is looking at smaller size magnetic filters also. He did make it quite clear numerous times he prefers screw on filters unless you want to use them in conjuction with GND's. I concur.

He claims it states right on his web site the magnetic filters are not meant to replace traditional screw on filters his words. He also said he needs to make sure his web site is more clear and easier to understand. I cited the example of how many emails and phone calls I had to make just to get figure out what I needed for the magnetic filters since the adapter rings are buried deep in the site somewhere..

When I want to use a grad I will utilize a better designed Kase filter holder I do not use a polarizer wtih grads but I can if I want with the Kase system. The Breakthrough holder is not bad in fact better than most but it is bigger than I like and I prefer the way the Kase works.

I do take more than two lenses with me quite often so we are different in that regard but agree usually a 72 & 77 to 82 will suffice.

I feel it is a rediculous method and waste of time to screw in an adapter ring, then screw in the magnetic adapter into the adapter ring which is 105mm in diameter and a multi piece affair with the rotating wheel inside that is flimsy, jerky in operation and not nearly as easy to use as a plain old screw in CPL. Two different ways of doing something and I prefer my way I tried your way and did not care for it.

If you want to take three steps to do this and fiddle around rotating the filter with a adapter ring instead of the filter itself go for it, there is no right or wrong way of doing it.

Interesting ND filter review for Sony video shooters:

Chris Gibbs said:

Interesting ND filter review for Sony video shooters:

Click to expand...

You do not know who to believe in this world anymore or why or who they are working for, it is a shame.

Graham from Breakthrough told me that they test against every filter made on a spectrameter??? or something that actually measures distortion, color accuracy or shift and other and the only two filters that consistently test at the very top are the singh-ray and Breakthrough.

After talking to him and listening to his passion and reasoning I tend to believe what he says.

He said you can find tests and reviews that say lots of things this one here included I watched it about a week or two ago but they are opinions not controlled scientific measurements. I guess I will go with measurements over someones eye or personal opinion.

All I can do it take his word for it but Breakthrough has consistently received very high marks from many different directions.

The coatings and quality of the Schott glass are definitely not some chinese junk that many others are and they are priced accordingly. The test I posted I thought was surprising to see the sharpness degradation on the otherwise tonally correct Hoya which I found interesting.

Chris Gibbs said:

Interesting ND filter review for Sony video shooters:

Click to expand...

the one he recommended does not have multi coating.

We will have to leave it at that then.

I have a total of 4 magnetic filters, 3 grads, X100 holder and 4 magnetic adapter rings. I don’t take just two lenses when I shoot, but if I take 3 or 4 lenses typically they are all 77 and 82, or 67 and 77, so there’s no need to take everything.

All this only takes up a small portion of my backpack, not another bags worth of space like you say.

As for the adapter rings, I don’t use step up rings, so it’s a one time action to attach the magnetic ring to the lens, then drop in the filter, simple.

As for step up rings and screw in filters, that’s a two step process, and a fiddly one at that when in the field. Congrats to you for putting up with that process on multiple lenses when shooting in the field, swapping adapter rings onto the same polarizer or ND etc.

We shall agree to disagree I think.

Dave Dugdale's a straight shooter, and has earned his professional stripes within the industry, he's no agenda from what I know of him.

What he shows from his testing is something (similar) I've only seen when shooting Aurora images with a UV filter (mistakenly) left on the lens:


I had issues with Breakthrough's magnetic holder with a Sony 24-70GM, when shot wide open @ 24mm, it vignetted badly. I forwarded Breakthrough the uncorrected file screenshot from CaptureOne and description of the issue. Then got a phone message a week or so later indicating they'd bought and tested the 16-35GM and there was no vignetting @ 24mm. If this is their idea of *trouble shooting* and *attention to detail* I'm unimpressed. As Sony shooters will tell you, the 16-35GM and 24-70GM @ 24mm perform completely different regards mechanical vignetting. It took me 45 minutes to explain this basic principle to Nathan their *tech support* guy.

I wasn't going to get involved in the nitty-gritty *he said, she said* here, but Breakthrough need to test their kit more thoroughly, under conditions where its likely to get used by actual practitioners, rather than their target audience of f/8 and be there landscapers. I can think of a dozen scenarios where this magnetic system would be invaluable to a working shooter, one who isn't normally a filter system user.

Like I tried to explain to Nathan. I was excited to look at the magnetic ND's for video usage, sometimes you want a 4 stop ND just to *pop-on* FAST when leaving a venue heading out into the daylight. But if they vignette on the bread and butter 24-70 when shot wide-open, then thats a huge issue for videographers, a real shame IMO.

Videographers are by far a bigger market than landscapers, and one with deeper pockets too, Grahams comments about his magnetic holders usage to you are short sighted IMO, but its his product and choice after all's said and done!

I offered to test the new holder (with a UV filter in-place of the ND) extensively under normal shooting conditions on all the Sony GM glass, Nathan said he'd forward me one when available in 82mm, I'll keep you posted. ~Chris

terryreid said:

Chris Gibbs said:

Interesting ND filter review for Sony video shooters:

Click to expand...

You do not know who to believe in this world anymore or why or who they are working for, it is a shame.

Graham from Breakthrough told me that they test against every filter made on a spectrameter??? or something that actually measures distortion, color accuracy or shift and other and the only two filters that consistently test at the very top are the singh-ray and Breakthrough.

After talking to him and listening to his passion and reasoning I tend to believe what he says.

He said you can find tests and reviews that say lots of things this one here included I watched it about a week or two ago but they are opinions not controlled scientific measurements. I guess I will go with measurements over someones eye or personal opinion.

All I can do it take his word for it but Breakthrough has consistently received very high marks from many different directions.

The coatings and quality of the Schott glass are definitely not some chinese junk that many others are and they are priced accordingly. The test I posted I thought was surprising to see the sharpness degradation on the otherwise tonally correct Hoya which I found interesting.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/10-Stop-Neutral-Density-Filter.aspx

Click to expand...

timewaster said:

Chris Gibbs said:

Interesting ND filter review for Sony video shooters:

Click to expand...

the one he recommended does not have multi coating.

Click to expand...

Let me play the devils advocate here. Who is Doug Dugdale and how much credence do you give his solitary 5 year old opinion versus dozens of articles and reveiws that I have read that say the opposite?

Opinons are a plenty, Just sayin

Breakthrough and the many others do not spend extra money on coatings out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it because it is better.

One thing I really like about coatings and why I will not have a filter without coatings is the ease of clean up in the field. I find it aggravating that not being able to get fingerprints and other off a filter.

--
-Terry
https://you pic.com/photographer/TerryRStahly/?mode=portfolio
https://trstahly.format.com/work#
https://500px.com/trstahly

I've absolutely no issue with lens coatings, my B+W are all MRC versions, but I remove UV filters when shooting high frequency light sources (lesson learnt). Photography by definition is an *imprecise science* -- better to keep an open mind, trust your eyes and buy what works for *your given situation* rather than go with doctrine.

Read the comments in this blog, specifically read Rogers (the more you know right):

terryreid said:

timewaster said:

Chris Gibbs said:

Interesting ND filter review for Sony video shooters:

Click to expand...

the one he recommended does not have multi coating.

Click to expand...

Let me play the devils advocate here. Who is Doug Dugdale and how much credence do you give his solitary 5 year old opinion versus dozens of articles and reveiws that I have read that say the opposite?

Opinons are a plenty, Just sayin

Breakthrough and the many others do not spend extra money on coatings out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it because it is better.

One thing I really like about coatings and why I will not have a filter without coatings is the ease of clean up in the field. I find it aggravating that not being able to get fingerprints and other off a filter.

Click to expand...

Chris Gibbs said:

I've absolutely no issue with lens coatings, my B+W are all MRC versions, but I remove UV filters when shooting high frequency light sources (lesson learnt). Photography by definition is an *imprecise science* -- better to keep an open mind, trust your eyes and buy what works for *your given situation* rather than go with doctrine.

Read the comments in this blog, specifically read Rogers (the more you know right):

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/20...ons-of-the-canon-70-200mm-f2-8-is-ii-and-iii/

terryreid said:

timewaster said:

Chris Gibbs said:

Interesting ND filter review for Sony video shooters:

Click to expand...

the one he recommended does not have multi coating.

Click to expand...

Let me play the devils advocate here. Who is Doug Dugdale and how much credence do you give his solitary 5 year old opinion versus dozens of articles and reveiws that I have read that say the opposite?

Opinons are a plenty, Just sayin

Breakthrough and the many others do not spend extra money on coatings out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it because it is better.

One thing I really like about coatings and why I will not have a filter without coatings is the ease of clean up in the field. I find it aggravating that not being able to get fingerprints and other off a filter.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I sold all my UV filters a year ago and like not using them very much.

I do use a Sensei small aluminum lens hood with a pinch style lens cap to protect the lens. I seldom have to clean the lens surface if ever anymore and feel better without the UV glass no matter how good between my lens and the subject.

The only lenses I do not use them on are wider than 35mm because the Sony hood is smaller than the Sensi for 16mm thru 30mm.




Sesei lens hood



--
-Terry
https://you pic.com/photographer/TerryRStahly/?mode=portfolio

Those are great hoods, we used to get something similar with the old Nikkor's, they're far better than these crappy plastic petal hoods with their fragile locking mechanisms.

As to UV's, mine are purely disposable see-through lens caps, I spend a lot of time in messy locations, out in cold environments here in Alaska. Have you ever had a sled dog slobber on your lens in negative temperatures, its a riot, it freezes immediately and then you'll be reaching for the old windshield scraper or de-icer (joking here, but you get my drift). When stuff like this happens, it's a simple job to pop-off the UV filter and deal with it after it defrosts in your pocket.

Getting back to Breakthrough, this is what caught my eye about their magnetic holder, it's kind of similar to your Sensei hood, but you can pop-in the UV filter, ND, or Poli at will, I think thats brilliant. As to Grahams comment about this not being its intended purpose, then why is there a magnetic UV filter?

Good chatting, this is how we get stuff sorted. Maybe Sensei will make a series of magnetic filters that'd snap inside their excellent metal hoods?

Look at Canon's new mirrorless camera, namely its lens adaptors for the old EOS glass, note the one with the built-in filter holder. That is brilliant, why did no one else think of that and put it in their adaptors we use on our Sony's, it's so obvious (after the fact).

Maybe this magnetic filter issue has a similar solution? Maybe incorporating the filter into a nice metal hood makes more sense, heck every manufacture supplies a template (hood) ready for for enterprising entity to *copy and adapt* for an internal filter............ Maybe Canon will do first again, lol.

We used to cut slots for Cokin filters in Medium format film camera hoods, they worked very well, no one ever commercialized that either, you could get away with Cokin P filters on a 40mm MF lens. ~Chris

terryreid said:

Chris Gibbs said:

I've absolutely no issue with lens coatings, my B+W are all MRC versions, but I remove UV filters when shooting high frequency light sources (lesson learnt). Photography by definition is an *imprecise science* -- better to keep an open mind, trust your eyes and buy what works for *your given situation* rather than go with doctrine.

Read the comments in this blog, specifically read Rogers (the more you know right):

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/20...ons-of-the-canon-70-200mm-f2-8-is-ii-and-iii/

terryreid said:

timewaster said:

Chris Gibbs said:

Interesting ND filter review for Sony video shooters:

Click to expand...

the one he recommended does not have multi coating.

Click to expand...

Let me play the devils advocate here. Who is Doug Dugdale and how much credence do you give his solitary 5 year old opinion versus dozens of articles and reveiws that I have read that say the opposite?

Opinons are a plenty, Just sayin

Breakthrough and the many others do not spend extra money on coatings out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it because it is better.

One thing I really like about coatings and why I will not have a filter without coatings is the ease of clean up in the field. I find it aggravating that not being able to get fingerprints and other off a filter.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I sold all my UV filters a year ago and like not using them very much.

I do use a Sensei small aluminum lens hood with a pinch style lens cap to protect the lens. I seldom have to clean the lens surface if ever anymore and feel better without the UV glass no matter how good between my lens and the subject.

The only lenses I do not use them on are wider than 35mm because the Sony hood is smaller than the Sensi for 16mm thru 30mm.


Sesei lens hood

Click to expand...

--
Documentary Photographer
www.chrisgibbs.com

Chris Gibbs said:

Look at Canon's new mirrorless camera, namely its lens adaptors for the old EOS glass, note the one with the built-in filter holder. That is brilliant, why did no one else think of that and put it in their adaptors we use on our Sony's, it's so obvious (after the fact).

Click to expand...

The Canon adaptor is not the first to have that.

I own one of these for using with my Sony and Carl Zeiss Contax Lens

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y2CQL3L/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I agree with it being a great idea and applaud Canon for doing it.

Hopefully they have executed it better than Fotodiox. The problem with my Fotodiox one is putting in a filter is easy, they are magnetic. Taking one out in the field is not so I have used the included ND filters exactly zero times, which is a shame.

I probably would have used them a few times but only have 1 lens they work with so don't carry around the extra filters as the lens in question shares a common thread for which I have screw on filters already.

It's a nice adapter and has other selling features so not overly upset about the filter issue.

Should also add, putting a filter in front of the lens can mess things up like focus. I have a clip on in front ND filter and it changes not only AF but also MF distances become totally out of whack so I don't use that product either.

--
online gallery at:
www.MattReynoldsPhotography.com

That's good to know, thanks Mat!

I've tried most the variable ND's since going mirrorless for video, one BIG issue has always been that cross polarization issue when you go too far and get that ugly X effect.

Even the manufactures like Heliopan who put *hard stops* on the mount suffer this effect -- my first thought reference the Canon was, I bet the Canon adaptor won't suffer this issue.

Now I'm thinking we need a series of metal lens hoods similar to those Sensei's with ND's that'll snap inside........... Anyone have a contact at Sensei? This could also be an interesting project for someone innovative like Kirk Enterprises RRS.

Side note: Most these modern *high-end* lenses only have plastic filter threads, I don't really want to be screwing filters on and off every two minutes. I'd pay a premium for a bespoke lens hood made of metal that uses my existing *hood bayonet* mounting point.

mreynolds767 said:

Chris Gibbs said:

Look at Canon's new mirrorless camera, namely its lens adaptors for the old EOS glass, note the one with the built-in filter holder. That is brilliant, why did no one else think of that and put it in their adaptors we use on our Sony's, it's so obvious (after the fact).

Click to expand...

The Canon adaptor is not the first to have that.

I own one of these for using with my Sony and Carl Zeiss Contax Lens

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y2CQL3L/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I agree with it being a great idea and applaud Canon for doing it.

Hopefully they have executed it better than Fotodiox. The problem with my Fotodiox one is putting in a filter is easy, they are magnetic. Taking one out in the field is not so I have used the included ND filters exactly zero times, which is a shame.

I probably would have used them a few times but only have 1 lens they work with so don't carry around the extra filters as the lens in question shares a common thread for which I have screw on filters already.

It's a nice adapter and has other selling features so not overly upset about the filter issue.

Should also add, putting a filter in front of the lens can mess things up like focus. I have a clip on in front ND filter and it changes not only AF but also MF distances become totally out of whack so I don't use that product either

Click to expand...

Really a shame that is 2018 and still no great solution for so many of us that want to use filters. Many are trying to cut down in size and weight in what they are carrying around.

You would think the filter size / lens sizes would be more universal but I guess it makes sense they are not. The Zeiss Loxia line is nicely designed in that regard (all share a small 52mm filter size) ; but it also has probably prevented their innovation for an ultrawide or faster lens so maybe not so smart

I suspect it will be one the camera brands that comes up with an electronic in-camera solution to solve our problems but who knows when that will happen.

If Sony/Nikon/Canon even someone like Pentax or Fuji came up with an electronic solution in-body the would really have a selling feature that could boost their market share.

I like the idea of some sort of drop in front filter but based on my 2 experiences skeptical if that will ever work flawlessly unless somehow backed by electronics to compensate properly.

--
online gallery at:
www.MattReynoldsPhotography.com

Sony have a nice electronic ND on various video cameras up to and including their SUPER-35 sensor size, I wonder if there's a prototype A7Slll out there with an *electronic ND* -- that'd be a HUGE leg-up over their mirrorless competition.

Had the Sony smooth reflections app (ND simulator) on my A7Rll, it worked beautifully, it's on my RX1Rll as well, but alas Sony appears to have binned their in-camera apps for some reason on the later models, people have asked Sony directly about this, but no reason is given.

Agree, filters are a PITA in the field. This should all be done in camera in 2018, especially on mirrorless cameras, Sony was on the right track with their Play Memories App's, but the implementation/user experience was horrible, as is their FW upgrade process, let me download this stuff to an SD card and simply pop it into the camera for upgrades/installation.

mreynolds767 said:

Really a shame that is 2018 and still no great solution for so many of us that want to use filters. Many are trying to cut down in size and weight in what they are carrying around.

You would think the filter size / lens sizes would be more universal but I guess it makes sense they are not. The Zeiss Loxia line is nicely designed in that regard (all share a small 52mm filter size) ; but it also has probably prevented their innovation for an ultrawide or faster lens so maybe not so smart

I suspect it will be one the camera brands that comes up with an electronic in-camera solution to solve our problems but who knows when that will happen.

If Sony/Nikon/Canon even someone like Pentax or Fuji came up with an electronic solution in-body the would really have a selling feature that could boost their market share.

I like the idea of some sort of drop in front filter but based on my 2 experiences skeptical if that will ever work flawlessly unless somehow backed by electronics to compensate properly.

Click to expand...

Chris Gibbs said:

Sony have a nice electronic ND on various video cameras up to and including their SUPER-35 sensor size, I wonder if there's a prototype A7Slll out there with an *electronic ND* -- that'd be a HUGE leg-up over their mirrorless competition.

Had the Sony smooth reflections app (ND simulator) on my A7Rll, it worked beautifully, it's on my RX1Rll as well, but alas Sony appears to have binned their in-camera apps for some reason on the later models, people have asked Sony directly about this, but no reason is given.

Agree, filters are a PITA in the field. This should all be done in camera in 2018, especially on mirrorless cameras, Sony was on the right track with their Play Memories App's, but the implementation/user experience was horrible, as is their FW upgrade process, let me download this stuff to an SD card and simply pop it into the camera for upgrades/installation.

Click to expand...

Yeah and I owned a Sony Rx100 ii which felt like many years ago and that camera and I assume all versions of the Rx100 has an electronic ND filter that worked great

Why years later they cannot implement that into a larger sensor camera makes no sense to me.

They have mentioned the A7siii is rolling out slower than they earlier thought but claim there to be some ground breaking stuff (I assumed aimed at videographers) in the rumors I read.

Also agree about the Play Memories mess.

Users complained because they liked it but it was implemented terribly into the camera system's backend. So Sony instead of trying to fix it, decides to remove it entirely???

Made no sense and cannot imagine anyone was happy with that decision.

Upgrades as well, one should never have to fear bricking their camera by installing a factory upgrade.

Will be testing out a new add-on product on my Sony with some features like the play memories smooth reflections capability later this month (a little too soon for me to say more than that)