Olympus must innovate in order to survive

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Olympus has always been "innovative", coming out with unique features that nobody else has successfully executed.
 
With the flurry of a announcements from industry heavyweights in recent weeks, Olympus future looks bleaker than ever. Olympus became relevant in the start of this decade by offering something that no company could or was willing to do: Small, affordable, high quality cameras and lenses. EVF, IBIS, WR, good video for the time and attractive designs were the icing on the cake. Now every camera manufacturer has caught up with what Olympus were offering in 2011 and added more features with each iteration.

Once there was a mega pixel war, now there is a battle in every corner. 14-bit raw, 500+ AF points, high bitrate,high framerate,high resolution video, log formats, good tracking AF,... to name a few. With the inherent characteristics of the smaller sensor (DR, Noise, DoF) and the fact that the difference in weight, size and price (the three deciding factors for the vast majority of m4/3 users), is a fraction of what it was compared to the rivals back in 2011,one can argue that today, for a person who is not deep into any system, m4/3 is going to be at the bottom of the list.

There has been so much talk recently about Olympus or Panasonic going FF. Panasonic brand is as much about video as it is about photography and it could benefit from entering into FF market, especially if it could partner up with a company with a history in FF, like Leica or Sigma. But I don't think Olympus should go FF, where the market is so saturated that it is bound to fail. Instead it should do what it always does that makes it so especial: INNOVATE.

Easier to say than done. But here are some areas that I think there is chance to improve:

1- Computational photography: Do what smartphones do, with much higher speed and quality. Adding one or two extra sensors to measure depth, using AI to reduce noise, smart HDR processing, median noise reduction, intelligent AF, refocus, portrait lighting, ...

2- Global shutter

3- Hand-held Hi-res

4- 6-axis IBIS

5- Production of niche products: Pen-F is a success story and it should not be forgotten. (My personal wish: Olympus SIX digital. An 18x18mm monochrome, square sensor in MFT body with slot-in color filters)

And in glass department:

6- Continue PRO lens line-up with stand-out distinctive lenses: A Perspective control UWA with zero optical distortion (eg: 9mm f/2 PC Zero-D) , a short zoom with wide aperture (eg: 14-28mm f/1.8), a mid-telephoto macro with sync-is (eg: 100mm f/2.8 macro IS), etc.

7- Refresh current lens line-up with updated technologies and trends, i.e. weather resistance, Sync-IS, better coatings, Phase Fresnel glass, etc.
If Olympus can come out with a 4k 60fps video mode with uncompressed out on the HDMI, and keep the hi-res mode along with the other features of the Em5 Mark 2 and call it the EM5 mark 3, maybe with a 20mpx sensor, I'd be happy. Maybe phase detection as a nice touch. They already cram so much into their cameras, such as intervalometers, that there is little they can improve on (not saying there's NOTHING to add)

Global shutter is a wing and a prayer at this point. Blackmagic tried it and it didnt work. That still has to be refined. I personally think, as alluded to above, that they just need to make incremental changes, and still be viable. Now, if they pull a "Canon" and release cameras that are viable 3 years previous to their release date, then they might be in trouble :)
 
Everyone must innovate in order to survive.
 
With the flurry of a announcements from industry heavyweights in recent weeks, Olympus future looks bleaker than ever. Olympus became relevant in the start of this decade by offering something that no company could or was willing to do: Small, affordable, high quality cameras and lenses. EVF, IBIS, WR, good video for the time and attractive designs were the icing on the cake. Now every camera manufacturer has caught up with what Olympus were offering in 2011 and added more features with each iteration.
Another prophet of doom who has no idea what he is talking about.

E-M1 II may be nearly two years old and it is still perfectly comparable with the newest flagship models, if not ahead of them. 60 frames/sec, 80 mpix hi-res, pro-capture, focus stacking, live composite, 6.5 stops Sync IS ...

It shows Olympus is in fact ahead of all others as far as innovation is concerned, and if some are keep forgeting this, it will become very evident with its next model.
As long as it doesn't go the Evil Route and focus instead on video, like Panasonic did half a decade ago.

The next iteration of the Em1 Mk2 better significantly improve IQ for stills, or or my m43 lens collection gets sold. I'm not saying the current Em1 is bad, not at all. It's actually remarkably good.

But it's not in the same league as 42 mp Sony FF, and I'm willing to give up 60fps for that. The A7riii plus 70-300 does not feel heavier than an EM1 plus Panasonic 100-400, or even the 40-150 2.8, and if something is closer and fills the frame, the Sony blows it out of the water.
 
With the flurry of a announcements from industry heavyweights in recent weeks, Olympus future looks bleaker than ever. Olympus became relevant in the start of this decade by offering something that no company could or was willing to do: Small, affordable, high quality cameras and lenses. EVF, IBIS, WR, good video for the time and attractive designs were the icing on the cake. Now every camera manufacturer has caught up with what Olympus were offering in 2011 and added more features with each iteration.

Once there was a mega pixel war, now there is a battle in every corner. 14-bit raw, 500+ AF points, high bitrate,high framerate,high resolution video, log formats, good tracking AF,... to name a few. With the inherent characteristics of the smaller sensor (DR, Noise, DoF) and the fact that the difference in weight, size and price (the three deciding factors for the vast majority of m4/3 users), is a fraction of what it was compared to the rivals back in 2011,one can argue that today, for a person who is not deep into any system, m4/3 is going to be at the bottom of the list.

There has been so much talk recently about Olympus or Panasonic going FF. Panasonic brand is as much about video as it is about photography and it could benefit from entering into FF market, especially if it could partner up with a company with a history in FF, like Leica or Sigma. But I don't think Olympus should go FF, where the market is so saturated that it is bound to fail. Instead it should do what it always does that makes it so especial: INNOVATE.

Easier to say than done. But here are some areas that I think there is chance to improve:

1- Computational photography: Do what smartphones do, with much higher speed and quality. Adding one or two extra sensors to measure depth, using AI to reduce noise, smart HDR processing, median noise reduction, intelligent AF, refocus, portrait lighting, ...

2- Global shutter

3- Hand-held Hi-res

4- 6-axis IBIS

5- Production of niche products: Pen-F is a success story and it should not be forgotten. (My personal wish: Olympus SIX digital. An 18x18mm monochrome, square sensor in MFT body with slot-in color filters)
I'd sell my house for that (if i had one) but would want a colour version too.

Nice list of goodies and not opposed to Oly offering them all in a sub 1000€/$ body.
And in glass department:

6- Continue PRO lens line-up with stand-out distinctive lenses: A Perspective control UWA with zero optical distortion (eg: 9mm f/2 PC Zero-D)
I'd be fine with f4.
, a short zoom with wide aperture (eg: 14-28mm f/1.8), a mid-telephoto macro with sync-is (eg: 100mm f/2.8 macro IS), etc.

7- Refresh current lens line-up with updated technologies and trends, i.e. weather resistance, Sync-IS, better coatings, Phase Fresnel glass, etc.

--
http://500px.com/davuddadar
 
It's called evolution.
 
But it's not in the same league as 42 mp Sony FF, and I'm willing to give up 60fps for that. The A7riii plus 70-300 does not feel heavier than an EM1 plus Panasonic 100-400, or even the 40-150 2.8, and if something is closer and fills the frame, the Sony blows it out of the water.
But I want a camera not a torpedo
 
But it's not in the same league as 42 mp Sony FF, and I'm willing to give up 60fps for that. The A7riii plus 70-300 does not feel heavier than an EM1 plus Panasonic 100-400, or even the 40-150 2.8, and if something is closer and fills the frame, the Sony blows it out of the water.
But I want a camera not a torpedo
Listen. You're talking to someone that has owned all the early Panasonic m43's, ending with GH2 (including the stupid GH1), and then all of the Olympus m43's, ending with EM1 Mk2. Plus more lenses than fingers. Plus some toes.

I can decorate the Christmas tree with about 4 em5-style chargers, plus a few Em1 chargers. Not to mention way too many offbrand chargers that came with offbrand batteries from Amazon. Not to mention pre-em5 chargers.

But I'm telling you. Go to the store. Try each combination. I'm not making it up.
 
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5- Production of niche products: Pen-F is a success story and it should not be forgotten. (My personal wish: Olympus SIX digital. An 18x18mm monochrome, square sensor in MFT body with slot-in color filters)
I'd sell my house for that (if i had one) but would want a colour version too.
I’ve done the math now and to fit within the same image circle the sensor would be 16x16 rather than the m43 of 18x13. This is about a 9% increase in area so a 22Mp sensor based on current densities (all figures rounded).

It’s actually a nice idea, but I’d like to see a radical camera design to go with it, perhaps along the lines of the Rolleiflex 3003. It could have a really beefy battery while still remaining small.



81784e81f8ce4620966f0050d0816049.jpg



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Nick
 
5- Production of niche products: Pen-F is a success story and it should not be forgotten. (My personal wish: Olympus SIX digital. An 18x18mm monochrome, square sensor in MFT body with slot-in color filters)
I'd sell my house for that (if i had one) but would want a colour version too.
I’ve done the math now and to fit within the same image circle the sensor would be 16x16 rather than the m43 of 18x13. This is about a 9% increase in area so a 22Mp sensor based on current densities (all figures rounded).

It’s actually a nice idea, but I’d like to see a radical camera design to go with it, perhaps along the lines of the Rolleiflex 3003. It could have a really beefy battery while still remaining small.

81784e81f8ce4620966f0050d0816049.jpg

--
Nick
My math says that about 18x18 is optimal for M43, 24x24 for APS-C and 36x36 for FF. That way you get the present format without loss. Would rather waste some of the sensor and less of the image circle. 6x6 SLR design clues are interesting.
 
With the flurry of a announcements from industry heavyweights in recent weeks, Olympus future looks bleaker than ever. Olympus became relevant in the start of this decade by offering something that no company could or was willing to do: Small, affordable, high quality cameras and lenses. EVF, IBIS, WR, good video for the time and attractive designs were the icing on the cake. Now every camera manufacturer has caught up with what Olympus were offering in 2011 and added more features with each iteration.
Another prophet of doom who has no idea what he is talking about.

E-M1 II may be nearly two years old and it is still perfectly comparable with the newest flagship models, if not ahead of them. 60 frames/sec, 80 mpix hi-res, pro-capture, focus stacking, live composite, 6.5 stops Sync IS ...

It shows Olympus is in fact ahead of all others as far as innovation is concerned, and if some are keep forgeting this, it will become very evident with its next model.
Absolutely... gosh, the Canon EOS R has none of these features and NO IBIS at all!

I came from Canon, then Sony to M4/3 and my EM1.2 is a revelation of features and quality that makes my A6300 seem like an Instamatic compared to the last of the SLR film cameras. And I simply don’t need 50Mp images so FF has no appeal at all.
 

I read somewhere this camera is rumor to price around $2500. While I can see 3~4 hardcore Olympus fanboys buying it. I just don't see any Panasonic video shooter like me taking a $2500 risk on a company without a rich video history. Granted, its catering to an older Still Photographer market, but here like the problem.

For still photography, I don't need the latest gear. A 4~5 years old Olympus EM5 is more than enough and IQ isn't vastly better.

I'm not a brand whore, so I will cross shop for the Best Value for Money:

For $2000 - nothing beats Sony A7-III in IQ, Lowlight still or video, Video Specs, Battery life, Sensor dynamic range, Eye AF, great Canon Lens adapter with Eye AF, cheap 3rd party lens support (Tamron 28-75/2.8)

For $1500 - nothing beats Fuji X-T3 in IQ, Lowlight still or video, Video Specs, 30 FPS @16mp, or 20 FPS @24mp without EVF blackout, etc, great Fuji jpeg, great Fuji skin-tone

Both camera offer better Video Tracking than current Panasonic Gh5 (which doesn't stick to subjects face like a glue as good as Canon, Sony, and now even Fuji)

I understand Olympus diedhard won't bat an eye spending $2500 for an Olympus with m43 sensor, but how many Normal Consumer (outside of DPR bubble) is willing to pay $1000 premium over a 30fps Fuji X-T3 that focus faster, has bigger sensor, and take great video?

Yes, while I like to see innovation, I also wish both Olympus & Panasonic re-examing the price/value level. For example, Panasonic is still charging $100 for Gh5 Vlog, when Sony is giving S-log for free, Canon is giving C-long for free, and now Fuji is including F-log for free in its X-T3. It's time to be more price competitive.
 
But it's not in the same league as 42 mp Sony FF, and I'm willing to give up 60fps for that. The A7riii plus 70-300 does not feel heavier than an EM1 plus Panasonic 100-400, or even the 40-150 2.8, and if something is closer and fills the frame, the Sony blows it out of the water.
But I want a camera not a torpedo
Listen. You're talking to someone that has owned all the early Panasonic m43's, ending with GH2 (including the stupid GH1), and then all of the Olympus m43's, ending with EM1 Mk2. Plus more lenses than fingers. Plus some toes.

I can decorate the Christmas tree with about 4 em5-style chargers, plus a few Em1 chargers. Not to mention way too many offbrand chargers that came with offbrand batteries from Amazon. Not to mention pre-em5 chargers.

But I'm telling you. Go to the store. Try each combination. I'm not making it up.
Er, um... I don’t need to go to any store... I’ve had Sony FF gear but fortunately got away before my bank account was emptied! And I’d pitch my EM1.2 + PL100-400 up against a FF Sony and 70-300G especially once you crop your photo because you couldn’t get close enough to the wildlife before you frightened it away trying to fill your frame.

Care to show us an example off your Sony that “blows this out of the water”?



09c5a0518b934f90a881be93eb13dff1.jpg

Cheers

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Quote: “If your pictures aren’t good enough, you’re not close enough.”, Robert Capa
 
is what keeps them surviving I understand! ;-)

Can't keep up with the demand which is very sad state of affairs.

Apologies to anyone who is afflicted! :-(



a933437feefe408db3317cf737feb857.jpg

Dennis

--
http://dwehner.zenfolio.com/
 
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I'm with you on that.



da588ad5554a473986d8043f76278519.jpg

Although I suppose that a FE 100-400m could compete, if it wasn't so damn expensive.

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
 
5- Production of niche products: Pen-F is a success story and it should not be forgotten. (My personal wish: Olympus SIX digital. An 18x18mm monochrome, square sensor in MFT body with slot-in color filters)
I'd sell my house for that (if i had one) but would want a colour version too.
I’ve done the math now and to fit within the same image circle the sensor would be 16x16 rather than the m43 of 18x13. This is about a 9% increase in area so a 22Mp sensor based on current densities (all figures rounded).

It’s actually a nice idea, but I’d like to see a radical camera design to go with it, perhaps along the lines of the Rolleiflex 3003. It could have a really beefy battery while still remaining small.

81784e81f8ce4620966f0050d0816049.jpg
My math says that about 18x18 is optimal for M43, 24x24 for APS-C and 36x36 for FF. That way you get the present format without loss. Would rather waste some of the sensor and less of the image circle. 6x6 SLR design clues are interesting.
Back in the film days Olympus had a concept of a modular camera, that can perhaps be adapted to digital era. Imagine user-interchangeable sensors, with a choise of a normal, low-res for low light and video, hi-res, monochrome ... And a choise of batteries, viewfinders ...

 
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Panasonic Gh5 (which doesn't stick to subjects face like a glue as good as Canon, Sony, and now even Fuji)

I understand Olympus diedhard won't bat an eye spending $2500 for an Olympus with m43 sensor, but how many Normal Consumer (outside of DPR bubble) is willing to pay $1000 premium over a 30fps Fuji X-T3 that focus faster, has bigger sensor, and take great video?
You must have some good inside source about actual specs of the rumoured new Olympus. Care to share?
 
With the flurry of a announcements from industry heavyweights in recent weeks, Olympus future looks bleaker than ever. Olympus became relevant in the start of this decade by offering something that no company could or was willing to do: Small, affordable, high quality cameras and lenses. EVF, IBIS, WR, good video for the time and attractive designs were the icing on the cake. Now every camera manufacturer has caught up with what Olympus were offering in 2011 and added more features with each iteration.

Once there was a mega pixel war, now there is a battle in every corner. 14-bit raw, 500+ AF points, high bitrate,high framerate,high resolution video, log formats, good tracking AF,... to name a few. With the inherent characteristics of the smaller sensor (DR, Noise, DoF) and the fact that the difference in weight, size and price (the three deciding factors for the vast majority of m4/3 users), is a fraction of what it was compared to the rivals back in 2011,one can argue that today, for a person who is not deep into any system, m4/3 is going to be at the bottom of the list.

There has been so much talk recently about Olympus or Panasonic going FF. Panasonic brand is as much about video as it is about photography and it could benefit from entering into FF market, especially if it could partner up with a company with a history in FF, like Leica or Sigma. But I don't think Olympus should go FF, where the market is so saturated that it is bound to fail. Instead it should do what it always does that makes it so especial: INNOVATE.

Easier to say than done. But here are some areas that I think there is chance to improve:

1- Computational photography:
computational photography? Sorry, but this in camera image adjustments is not a photographic genre. So, please, don’t use this term. It is just a way to carry postprocessing into the camera, but this always have severe limitations. One of them is the small and mostly inaccurate camera screen. „Computational photography“ is a marketing term created by the smartphone industry (unfortunately), but has nothing to do with photography as a creative process.
Do what smartphones do, with much higher speed and quality. Adding one or two extra sensors to measure depth, using AI to reduce noise, smart HDR processing, median noise reduction, intelligent AF, refocus, portrait lighting, ...
Just copying the smartphone industry would not help. People are mostly attracted by smartphones, because they have it anyway, they are smaller than cameras. However, I see always numerous people having difficulties operating their smartphones doing photography, because the screen simply is not readable in bright sunlight. Photo industry should put more emphasis on its strength, providing devices, which are far superior in image quality and handling. Marketing of the smartphone industry, untruly suggests that a smartphone can replace a camera. The photo industry must react stronger to this nonsense.
2- Global shutter

3- Hand-held Hi-res

4- 6-axis IBIS

5- Production of niche products: Pen-F is a success story and it should not be forgotten. (My personal wish: Olympus SIX digital. An 18x18mm monochrome, square sensor in MFT body with slot-in color filters)

And in glass department:

6- Continue PRO lens line-up with stand-out distinctive lenses: A Perspective control UWA with zero optical distortion (eg: 9mm f/2 PC Zero-D) , a short zoom with wide aperture (eg: 14-28mm f/1.8), a mid-telephoto macro with sync-is (eg: 100mm f/2.8 macro IS), etc.

7- Refresh current lens line-up with updated technologies and trends, i.e. weather resistance, Sync-IS, better coatings, Phase Fresnel glass, etc.
Olympus and Panasonic have been the most parts of the camera maker. Looking at the newly announced full frame cameras, the results are rather meager, except the larger sensor. Generally rather poor battery life, ergonomically (judging from control layout) quite a bit behind the mFT offerings, functionally, way backward, video specs not on par, only one card slot, and yet no usable tele lens coverage.

To me, the start of Canon and Nikon in full frame mirrorless is unexpectedly disappointing. Unfortunately, it is too easy to hit the advertisement drums, claiming that full frame the only or main photographic future. With the advent of the new functionally rather poor FF offerings photography becomes an even more pricey and luxury undertaking, if the smaller sized system would really become things of the past.

The new systems offer in many way less for more money.
 
But it's not in the same league as 42 mp Sony FF, and I'm willing to give up 60fps for that. The A7riii plus 70-300 does not feel heavier than an EM1 plus Panasonic 100-400, or even the 40-150 2.8, and if something is closer and fills the frame, the Sony blows it out of the water.
But I want a camera not a torpedo
Listen. You're talking to someone that has owned all the early Panasonic m43's, ending with GH2 (including the stupid GH1), and then all of the Olympus m43's, ending with EM1 Mk2. Plus more lenses than fingers. Plus some toes.

I can decorate the Christmas tree with about 4 em5-style chargers, plus a few Em1 chargers. Not to mention way too many offbrand chargers that came with offbrand batteries from Amazon. Not to mention pre-em5 chargers.

But I'm telling you. Go to the store. Try each combination. I'm not making it up.
Er, um... I don’t need to go to any store... I’ve had Sony FF gear but fortunately got away before my bank account was emptied! And I’d pitch my EM1.2 + PL100-400 up against a FF Sony and 70-300G especially once you crop your photo because you couldn’t get close enough to the wildlife before you frightened it away trying to fill your frame.

Care to show us an example off your Sony that “blows this out of the water”?

09c5a0518b934f90a881be93eb13dff1.jpg

Cheers
You've got to be careful what you ask for :-)

Sony FF, m4/3 and APS-C all have their uses and we don't all use native lenses on each.

All the best.

Danny.

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