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Mac Guy wants to build a Windows 10 PC

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silentstorm said:
Wayne Larmon said:
I don't game, don't do 3D, don't do panos or stitching, don't do complicated Photoshop and (currently) don't edit video. But I just upgraded my old i7 2600K machine with a new power supply and 1070 Ti (with lots of help from this forum) solely to experiment with Topaz A.I. Gigapixel. (Currently being discussed on the Retouching forum.)

And I'm happy I did. It is exhilarating to revisit my beloved early 2000s four and six megapixel images that I could never print as large as I wanted to and be able to upsize them so they are usable at higher resolutions (and on my 320 PPI 4K laptop.)

A.I. Gigapixel wants all the GPU you can throw at it (if you are upsizing to the 50+ megapixel range.) It is very GPU intensive.

Wayne
Click to expand...
Thanks Wayne. I'll want to try AI Gigapixel too. There are many 5MP files from the older camera. :-)
Click to expand...
I upgraded my desktop solely to test A.I. Gigapixel because the first versions didn't run without crashing unless you had a better video card than I had (Geforce 640 with one gig VRAM). But the newest version that was released a few days ago now has a "CPU only" option that doesn't require a GPU. Topaz says that it runs up to five times slower than if you have a GPU that meets their requirements. But this is useful if you just want to try AIG out without investing any money. (I'd suggest testing it with crops that don't have many megapixels.)

I told a friend about the new version earlier today (after telling about my experiences with AIG the past few weeks.) He immediately downloaded, installed it on his approx. $500 laptop and started processing his first image, all while we were having our phone conversation.

Wayne
 
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
sygnus21 said:
Wayne Larmon said:
Well... that stopped being fun for me several decades ago. I got tired of expending a lot of time and money while trying to save some money.
Click to expand...
Everybody busy trying to justify this or that while forgetting the real fun of building your own PC is customizing it to your whims. If I were looking to save a few bucks I wouldn't build the systems I do. And some of these systems turn out to be show pieces.

To each is own.
Click to expand...
+1. Saving money is nice,
Click to expand...
That's an often referred to benefit. Unfortunately most people don’t factor in their own time in research, building and having to maintain a home built computer, and other things that affect total and true cost.
Click to expand...
For me, that's not a cost. That's fun.
 
Last edited:
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
sygnus21 said:
Wayne Larmon said:
Well... that stopped being fun for me several decades ago. I got tired of expending a lot of time and money while trying to save some money.
Click to expand...
Everybody busy trying to justify this or that while forgetting the real fun of building your own PC is customizing it to your whims. If I were looking to save a few bucks I wouldn't build the systems I do. And some of these systems turn out to be show pieces.

To each is own.
Click to expand...
+1. Saving money is nice,
Click to expand...
That's an often referred to benefit. Unfortunately most people don’t factor in their own time in research, building and having to maintain a home built computer, and other things that affect total and true cost.
Click to expand...
Nor should you, or else nobody would. Unless you are professional that could and should be using that time making money instead of building and maintaining that computer, in which case you probably should get something from pre-made with a support contract without even thinking about building.
Click to expand...
Time isvaluable to everyone. Young people unfortunately don’t realize that until it’s too late.
Member said:
Member said:
Member said:
but to me it doesn't add to the fun of building. The fun is in the building, putting something together with your own hands
Click to expand...
To be fair there is little skill needed in assembling a new computer in terms of assembling the parts.
Click to expand...
Nobody suggested there was.
Click to expand...
I was addressing a statement that implies as much.
Member said:
But as someone who makes his money using his head instead of his hands, there is something oddly satisfying and relaxing by doing something like building a computer or rebuilding an engine (to name something more complicated).
Click to expand...
Rebuilding an engine is ridiculously more complicated. Not even close. I could see someone being well satisfied by something like that.

I agree with the satisfaction of working with your hands. I'm just trying to bring a little bit of objectivity to the discussion. I used to build my own computers and it's not really what it's cracked up to be.
Click to expand...
This might be an area where raw objectivity misses some of the point. You can't put numbers on personal satisfaction.
 
Last edited:
PhotoFactor said:
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
sygnus21 said:
Wayne Larmon said:
Well... that stopped being fun for me several decades ago. I got tired of expending a lot of time and money while trying to save some money.
Click to expand...
Everybody busy trying to justify this or that while forgetting the real fun of building your own PC is customizing it to your whims. If I were looking to save a few bucks I wouldn't build the systems I do. And some of these systems turn out to be show pieces.

To each is own.
Click to expand...
+1. Saving money is nice,
Click to expand...
That's an often referred to benefit. Unfortunately most people don’t factor in their own time in research, building and having to maintain a home built computer, and other things that affect total and true cost.
Click to expand...
Nor should you, or else nobody would. Unless you are professional that could and should be using that time making money instead of building and maintaining that computer, in which case you probably should get something from pre-made with a support contract without even thinking about building.
Click to expand...
Time isvaluable to everyone. Young people unfortunately don’t realize that until it’s too late.
PhotoFactor said:
PhotoFactor said:
PhotoFactor said:
but to me it doesn't add to the fun of building. The fun is in the building, putting something together with your own hands
Click to expand...
To be fair there is little skill needed in assembling a new computer in terms of assembling the parts.
Click to expand...
Nobody suggested there was.
Click to expand...
I was addressing a statement that implies as much.
PhotoFactor said:
But as someone who makes his money using his head instead of his hands, there is something oddly satisfying and relaxing by doing something like building a computer or rebuilding an engine (to name something more complicated).
Click to expand...
Rebuilding an engine is ridiculously more complicated. Not even close. I could see someone being well satisfied by something like that.

I agree with the satisfaction of working with your hands. I'm just trying to bring a little bit of objectivity to the discussion. I used to build my own computers and it's not really what it's cracked up to be.
Click to expand...
This might be an area where raw objectivity misses some of the point. You can't put numbers on personal satisfaction.
Click to expand...
Except I wasn’t addressing personal satisfaction, only objective things regarding building your own computer.
 
PhilDunn said:
sygnus21 said:
PhilDunn said:
I was addressing the assembling part only.
Click to expand...
Configuring the system is part of the assembly. You don't just plug in cards and call it a day ;-)
Click to expand...
Read more carefully what I wrote. Again, I was addressing assembling parts.
Click to expand...
Read more carefully what I said... you don't just plug in cards and call it a day. Assembling part is just one aspect of the whole when it comes to building a PC.

You comment in the following conversation below insinuates building PC's is easy.....
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
sygnus21 said:
Wayne Larmon said:
Well... that stopped being fun for me several decades ago. I got tired of expending a lot of time and money while trying to save some money.
Click to expand...
Everybody busy trying to justify this or that while forgetting the real fun of building your own PC is customizing it to your whims. If I were looking to save a few bucks I wouldn't build the systems I do. And some of these systems turn out to be show pieces.

To each is own.
Click to expand...
+1. Saving money is nice,
Click to expand...
That's an often referred to benefit. Unfortunately most people don’t factor in their own time in research, building and having to maintain a home built computer, and other things that affect total and true cost.
Member said:
but to me it doesn't add to the fun of building. The fun is in the building, putting something together with your own hands
Click to expand...
To be fair there is little skill needed in assembling a new computer in terms of assembling the parts.
Click to expand...
This is why you got the blowback you're getting!

Thank you.
 
Last edited:
sygnus21 said:
PhilDunn said:
sygnus21 said:
PhilDunn said:
I was addressing the assembling part only.
Click to expand...
Configuring the system is part of the assembly. You don't just plug in cards and call it a day ;-)
Click to expand...
Read more carefully what I wrote. Again, I was addressing assembling parts.
Click to expand...
Read more carefully what I said... you don't just plug in cards and call it a day. Assembling part is just one aspect of the whole when it comes to building a PC.

You comment in the following conversation below insinuates building PC's is easy.....
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
sygnus21 said:
Wayne Larmon said:
Well... that stopped being fun for me several decades ago. I got tired of expending a lot of time and money while trying to save some money.
Click to expand...
Everybody busy trying to justify this or that while forgetting the real fun of building your own PC is customizing it to your whims. If I were looking to save a few bucks I wouldn't build the systems I do. And some of these systems turn out to be show pieces.

To each is own.
Click to expand...
+1. Saving money is nice,
Click to expand...
That's an often referred to benefit. Unfortunately most people don’t factor in their own time in research, building and having to maintain a home built computer, and other things that affect total and true cost.
Member said:
but to me it doesn't add to the fun of building. The fun is in the building, putting something together with your own hands
Click to expand...
To be fair there is little skill needed in assembling a new computer in terms of assembling the parts.
Click to expand...
This is why you got the blowback you're getting!

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Blowback? Why? That statement is obviously true. Of course I also said more than that. Some people are simply getting a bit sensitive about it.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from building their own computer. The problem with such threads is that you very rarely see anyone mentioning the total costs and downsides for such a project. It's not like I'm speaking from inexperience.

I simply think people new to this should be exposed to the reality of the situation, and I haven’t even really gotten into details about it. I've seen plenty of first time computer builders go through hell building and then maintaining their computers. It's not a project for everyone, or even a few, and yet veterans builders and people that create and keep these threads going invariably make it seem as if anyone can and should do it. It's not that simple.
 
PhilDunn said:
Blowback? Why? That statement is obviously true. Of course I also said more than that. Some people are simply getting a bit sensitive about it.
Click to expand...
No body is being insensitive, we just called you out for your unnecessary snarky remark. And rightfully so.
Member said:
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from building their own computer. The problem with such threads is that you very rarely see anyone mentioning the total costs and downsides for such a project. It's not like I'm speaking from inexperience.
Click to expand...
Give me a break. Stop with the "people are so clueless as to not understand owning a PC means spending money". Anyone who owns a PC knows it costs money to maintain. Next.
Member said:
I simply think people new to this should be exposed to the reality of the situation, and I haven’t even really gotten into details about it.
Click to expand...
Yeah because they don' get that when they price PC parts. When they buy a pre-built PC. Or when they find they have to purchase software. They all think this stuff is free.
Member said:
I've seen plenty of first time computer builders go through hell building and then maintaining their computers. It's not a project for everyone, or even a few, and yet veterans builders and people that create and keep these threads going invariably make it seem as if anyone can and should do it. It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Actually if you cared to read the OP's first post, you'd see they came to us seeking advice, NOT us pushing an agenda on them. They actually wish to build, and already understand the costs involved.

C'mon man.

Moving right along.
 
sygnus21 said:
PhilDunn said:
Blowback? Why? That statement is obviously true. Of course I also said more than that. Some people are simply getting a bit sensitive about it.
Click to expand...
No body is being insensitive, we just called you out for your unnecessary snarky remark. And rightfully so.
Click to expand...
When did you become we?

There was nothing snarky about my comment. You simply responded in an overly sensitive manner to it. It's also the truth. Try not to be cynical. There's nothing positive about that.
Member said:
Member said:
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from building their own computer. The problem with such threads is that you very rarely see anyone mentioning the total costs and downsides for such a project. It's not like I'm speaking from inexperience.
Click to expand...
Give me a break. Stop with the "people are so clueless as to not understand owning a PC means spending money". Anyone who owns a PC knows it costs money to maintain. Next.
Click to expand...
Why are you quoting something I haven’t said? You also missed the point in my remarks since your are limiting costs to just money.
Member said:
Member said:
I simply think people new to this should be exposed to the reality of the situation, and I haven’t even really gotten into details about it.
Click to expand...
Yeah because they don' get that when they price PC parts. When they buy a pre-built PC. Or when they find they have to purchase software. They all think this stuff is free.
Click to expand...
Once again, you are focused only on momentary costs. I wasn't.
Member said:
Member said:
I've seen plenty of first time computer builders go through hell building and then maintaining their computers. It's not a project for everyone, or even a few, and yet veterans builders and people that create and keep these threads going invariably make it seem as if anyone can and should do it. It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Actually if you cared to read the OP's first post, you'd see they came to us seeking advice, NOT us pushing an agenda on them.
Click to expand...
The OP is just one person.
Member said:
They actually wish to build, and already understand the costs involved.

C'mon man.

Moving right along.
Click to expand...
Other people are also reading this thread, including those considering building a computer for the first time.
 
Wayne Larmon said:
silentstorm said:
Wayne Larmon said:
I don't game, don't do 3D, don't do panos or stitching, don't do complicated Photoshop and (currently) don't edit video. But I just upgraded my old i7 2600K machine with a new power supply and 1070 Ti (with lots of help from this forum) solely to experiment with Topaz A.I. Gigapixel. (Currently being discussed on the Retouching forum.)

And I'm happy I did. It is exhilarating to revisit my beloved early 2000s four and six megapixel images that I could never print as large as I wanted to and be able to upsize them so they are usable at higher resolutions (and on my 320 PPI 4K laptop.)

A.I. Gigapixel wants all the GPU you can throw at it (if you are upsizing to the 50+ megapixel range.) It is very GPU intensive.

Wayne
Click to expand...
Thanks Wayne. I'll want to try AI Gigapixel too. There are many 5MP files from the older camera. :-)
Click to expand...
I upgraded my desktop solely to test A.I. Gigapixel because the first versions didn't run without crashing unless you had a better video card than I had (Geforce 640 with one gig VRAM). But the newest version that was released a few days ago now has a "CPU only" option that doesn't require a GPU. Topaz says that it runs up to five times slower than if you have a GPU that meets their requirements. But this is useful if you just want to try AIG out without investing any money. (I'd suggest testing it with crops that don't have many megapixels.)

I told a friend about the new version earlier today (after telling about my experiences with AIG the past few weeks.) He immediately downloaded, installed it on his approx. $500 laptop and started processing his first image, all while we were having our phone conversation.

Wayne
Click to expand...
Things can only get better from here onwards, I can imagine. With the new RTX series nVidia cards integrating AI cores and ray tracing capabilities, AIG could scale to insane levels never seen before as software updates and drivers mature.

I bet Intel is going to include some tensor AI cores in their next architecture revolution too... not unless AMD beats them to it. LOL!

Great computing times coming! :-)
 
Last edited:
afterburn said:
PhilDunn said:
sygnus21 said:
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
but to me it doesn't add to the fun of building. The fun is in the building, putting something together with your own hands
Click to expand...
To be fair there is little skill needed in assembling a new computer in terms of assembling the parts.
Click to expand...
True, anybody can plug in a card.

But can they navigate their way through the BIOS? Figure out why the system won't POST? Can they troubleshoot Windows install problems? What about troubleshooting driver issues? What do they do when that newly built system is underperforming?

Yeah, anybody can plug in a card, but it's the other stuff that's not so easy. And why many shy away from building.
Click to expand...
I was addressing the assembling part only.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I have seen people do such stupid things when it comes to computers, it makes me wonder how people get out of bed in the morning without injuring themselves.. ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly. 😊
 
Austinian said:
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
sygnus21 said:
Wayne Larmon said:
Well... that stopped being fun for me several decades ago. I got tired of expending a lot of time and money while trying to save some money.
Click to expand...
Everybody busy trying to justify this or that while forgetting the real fun of building your own PC is customizing it to your whims. If I were looking to save a few bucks I wouldn't build the systems I do. And some of these systems turn out to be show pieces.

To each is own.
Click to expand...
+1. Saving money is nice,
Click to expand...
That's an often referred to benefit. Unfortunately most people don’t factor in their own time in research, building and having to maintain a home built computer, and other things that affect total and true cost.
Click to expand...
For me, that's not a cost. That's fun.
Click to expand...
Sure, it certainly can be, but it's also fair to say most first timers, and most people, period, are not interested in such a thing or are even aware of how much more maintenance it could entail.
 
PhilDunn said:
Austinian said:
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
sygnus21 said:
Wayne Larmon said:
Well... that stopped being fun for me several decades ago. I got tired of expending a lot of time and money while trying to save some money.
Click to expand...
Everybody busy trying to justify this or that while forgetting the real fun of building your own PC is customizing it to your whims. If I were looking to save a few bucks I wouldn't build the systems I do. And some of these systems turn out to be show pieces.

To each is own.
Click to expand...
+1. Saving money is nice,
Click to expand...
That's an often referred to benefit. Unfortunately most people don’t factor in their own time in research, building and having to maintain a home built computer, and other things that affect total and true cost.
Click to expand...
For me, that's not a cost. That's fun.
Click to expand...
Sure, it certainly can be, but it's also fair to say most first timers,
Click to expand...
Everyone had a "first time". ;-)
Member said:
and most people, period, are not interested in such a thing
Click to expand...
The interests of the masses are irrelevant to me as an individual.
Member said:
or are even aware of how much more maintenance it could entail.
Click to expand...
Build it, it sits there and works.

My self-built desktop requires the same "maintenance" as our factory-built laptops, mostly backups and updates.

Oh, and I do change the coolant once every few years. Takes about ten minutes.
 
Austinian said:
PhilDunn said:
Austinian said:
PhilDunn said:
afterburn said:
sygnus21 said:
Wayne Larmon said:
Well... that stopped being fun for me several decades ago. I got tired of expending a lot of time and money while trying to save some money.
Click to expand...
Everybody busy trying to justify this or that while forgetting the real fun of building your own PC is customizing it to your whims. If I were looking to save a few bucks I wouldn't build the systems I do. And some of these systems turn out to be show pieces.

To each is own.
Click to expand...
+1. Saving money is nice,
Click to expand...
That's an often referred to benefit. Unfortunately most people don’t factor in their own time in research, building and having to maintain a home built computer, and other things that affect total and true cost.
Click to expand...
For me, that's not a cost. That's fun.
Click to expand...
Sure, it certainly can be, but it's also fair to say most first timers,
Click to expand...
Everyone had a "first time". ;-)
Click to expand...
Obviously. Some first timers are also appreciative of objective information of what something like this truly entails.
Austinian said:
Austinian said:
and most people, period, are not interested in such a thing
Click to expand...
The interests of the masses are irrelevant to me as an individual.
Click to expand...
My comments are ultimately not directed at people like you that are not interested.
Austinian said:
Austinian said:
or are even aware of how much more maintenance it could entail.
Click to expand...
Build it, it sits there and works.
Click to expand...
Best case scenario. Anyone who has built enough computers knows it doesn’t always work that way.
Austinian said:
My self-built desktop requires the same "maintenance" as our factory-built laptops, mostly backups and updates.
Click to expand...
That's great; glad to hear it.
Austinian said:
Oh, and I do change the coolant once every few years. Takes about ten minutes.
Click to expand...
If you are referring to a fluid cooled system, I don’t have any experience with such builds. Of course that would be even more complicated for a first timer.
 
sygnus21 said:
Austinian said:
Everyone had a "first time". ;-)
Click to expand...
This guy is obviously just here to argue. No matter what you say, he'll argue just to argue.
Click to expand...
Nonsense.
Member said:
Stop feeding him and move on.
Click to expand...
Why don’t you just let people express their views and opinions and let others chose to, or not, respond to them? If you're not interested in what I have to say then it is you that needs to "move on," and let others be.
 
Last edited:
Now that the trolls are fully sated, I thought I'd give a wrap-up.

Here's what I'm building

Case: Corsair Obsidian 450d

Proc: i7-8700K

Cooler: Noctua NH-15 (it fits)

MotherBoard: Gigabyte Z3700 HD3P UD series

Memory: 2x8GB RAM DDR4 PC3200 leaving 2 slots open for future RAM if needed

Power Supply: Corsair RM 850x

Graphics: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 6GB - I'm buying it after the build is done to see if prices on 1070s go down..

SSD: 500GB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 PCIe

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

Total cost: $1,408.

I'm reusing 2 drives from my MAC for 6TB more storage, and a Blu-ray Burner also from the MAC.

Thanks for all the help and support. Even from the skeptics who helped me avoid a few bad choices, and reconfirm others.

I've got some work to do - the fun kind for me.

Tom
 
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