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Speculating on the Canon roadmap....

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rxb dc

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From what I can tell, there are three major gaps today in Canon products (including the R):

1. Sensor Readout speeds which probably is affecting both 4K (crop) and AF in servo mode. Remains unclear if this is business choice or a technology limitation. My money is that this is a business choice as I cannot imagine that Fuji or Panasonic can invest and make a better sensor than Canon (Sony has more scale so they have some advantages)

2. IBIS, which I believe Canon will address in the next cycle; it just does not seem to be a big deal considering everyone except Canon has the technology.

3, Processing Speed (Digic) - this is probably the easiest to address, and the next iteration of more upscale bodies will either have a newer faster processor (Digic 9) or dual Digica 8s.

Roadmap: My speculation is that Canon will evolve the R much like it did with the M series, and we will get the R5r in 2019 (high res, with IBIS, crop 4k) to address the landscape market and R6 (mark ii of the R) in late 2020, with IBIS and no-crop 4k). I don't think we will see a 6D3 or a 5DSr ii.

The M line up is filling up quickly with the M5/M6 taking the place of the enthusiast line (80D) and the M50/M100 in the mid-entry level (77D slot). We will probably get IBIS in mark ii, and no-crop 4k in mark iii of these cameras.

The real question is what will Canon do with their more sports/professional series- 7Dx, 5Dx and 1Dx. My feeling is that we will get at least one more iteration of those in the DSLR form factor, especially for 7Dx which getting a bit long in tooth.The AF needs will be too much for ML. The 7Diii DSLR (2019) will probably have dual Digic 8, a little more FPS, better AF, maybe no-crop 4k, touch screen etc.

It will be an open question to see what Canon does with 5D4. It is a multi faceted, workhorse camera and I suspect that mirrorless AF is not quite there yet. I am going to guess that we will get a 5D4ii DSLR in 2019 with no-crop 4k with a proper encoder and IBIS in 2019. If they wait till 2020, we will probably not get a DSLR but just an R5 with non crop 4k and IBIS.

The 1DXiii will also likely be a DSLR for 2020 Olmpics as it seems very risky to go with MILC 1Dx in that timeframe. However, I am sure Sony has A9ii in the wings, ready for 2020 so Canon will face significant pressure on that front. My money is still on a DSLR version for the 2020 olympics - the last DSLR.

Thoughts welome !
 
IBIS is not Canon's style, and I suspect that anyone who feels that feature is essential would be well advised to start looking at other brand alternatives. Adopting IBIS would almost amount to a rejection of Canon's own design approach to minimizing vibration. Since Canon is already the predominant player in the DSLR market, and since Canon lenses are generally more highly regarded than other makes, there's no incentive for Canon to begin competing with itself.
 
rxb dc said:
From what I can tell, there are three major gaps today in Canon products (including the R):

1. Sensor Readout speeds which probably is affecting both 4K (crop) and AF in servo mode. Remains unclear if this is business choice or a technology limitation. My money is that this is a business choice as I cannot imagine that Fuji or Panasonic can invest and make a better sensor than Canon (Sony has more scale so they have some advantages)
Click to expand...
Fuji cameras use sensors made by Sony. Most Panasonic cameras too.

It's just that Canon can't manufacture faster sensors for a given cost. They've given priority to investing in manufacturing capabilities that enable them to propose other technologies (such as DPAF). But so far we haven't seen a Canon sensor boasting the sort of technological arrangements that have enabled Sony sensors to read faster.

Given both the 6DII and the R sensors, don't expect a miracle any time soon.
 
Canon being Canon, I would forget about IBIS. I also would expect that if they think they can sell more cameras and still make a profit by having another iteration of the complete DSLR line, or even by introducing a model in a new niche, they will. And continue to do so. It's what they do, the way they behave, the way they stay at the top of the sales charts globally. Never, ever expect them to do what a tiny handful of enthusiasts (mostly) in the US think they will do. ;)
 
MayaTlab0 said:
rxb dc said:
From what I can tell, there are three major gaps today in Canon products (including the R):

1. Sensor Readout speeds which probably is affecting both 4K (crop) and AF in servo mode. Remains unclear if this is business choice or a technology limitation. My money is that this is a business choice as I cannot imagine that Fuji or Panasonic can invest and make a better sensor than Canon (Sony has more scale so they have some advantages)
Click to expand...
Fuji cameras use sensors made by Sony. Most Panasonic cameras too.

It's just that Canon can't manufacture faster sensors for a given cost. They've given priority to investing in manufacturing capabilities that enable them to propose other technologies (such as DPAF). But so far we haven't seen a Canon sensor boasting the sort of technological arrangements that have enabled Sony sensors to read faster.

Given both the 6DII and the R sensors, don't expect a miracle any time soon.
Click to expand...
We don't know if the limitation is the output speed of the sensor, or the input speed/processing speed of the Digic chip.

We also don't know how fast Canon's DPAF can be. If Canon develops an ultra-fast Digic, can DPAF focusing be fast and accurate enough for 7, 10 or 20fps? Can they handle 20fps across hundreds of focus points, and track subjects at that rate? It would be nice, of course, but we don't know what their abilities or plans are.
 
MarshallG said:
MayaTlab0 said:
rxb dc said:
From what I can tell, there are three major gaps today in Canon products (including the R):

1. Sensor Readout speeds which probably is affecting both 4K (crop) and AF in servo mode. Remains unclear if this is business choice or a technology limitation. My money is that this is a business choice as I cannot imagine that Fuji or Panasonic can invest and make a better sensor than Canon (Sony has more scale so they have some advantages)
Click to expand...
Fuji cameras use sensors made by Sony. Most Panasonic cameras too.

It's just that Canon can't manufacture faster sensors for a given cost. They've given priority to investing in manufacturing capabilities that enable them to propose other technologies (such as DPAF). But so far we haven't seen a Canon sensor boasting the sort of technological arrangements that have enabled Sony sensors to read faster.

Given both the 6DII and the R sensors, don't expect a miracle any time soon.
Click to expand...
We don't know if the limitation is the output speed of the sensor, or the input speed/processing speed of the Digic chip.

We also don't know how fast Canon's DPAF can be. If Canon develops an ultra-fast Digic, can DPAF focusing be fast and accurate enough for 7, 10 or 20fps? Can they handle 20fps across hundreds of focus points, and track subjects at that rate? It would be nice, of course, but we don't know what their abilities or plans are.
Click to expand...
We already know that it isn't the Digic as it can perform 7,4fps with tracking on the M50. Same goes for 4K : the M50 can encode in 4K 120mbps for 30minutes with no signs of overheating in a tiny, tiny body. Canon's Digic processor is just fine, really. Besides Canon doesn't manufacture these, so they can just shop around if they need better.

No, it's the readout speed. Nearly all of the R's problems can be traced back to that :

- cropped 4K, because of excessive rolling shutter

- no 120fps @1080p (the Digic can handle that just fine)

- massive rolling shutter in fully electronic shutter mode

- low fps with tracking (DPAF can't take a picture and read PDAF information at the same time, it's sequential)

- lack of liveview feed in between frames in continuous drive mode

etc.

Which makes sense since the sensor is something Canon manufactures themselves and because these need heavy investments it isn't exactly like Canon's can flick their fingers and suddenly tadaaa ! FF 4K and 20fps with tracking.
 
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Just got back from a Canon event for the new R. We had one of the top Canon educators for Australia giving the presentation. Lots of good questions were asked and the answers were very interesting.

4K video crop was done to avoid pixel binning as Canon thinks that is a bad idea. There will be no better video implementation in a MILC or dSLR as Canon’s official line is that you can buy a vine camera for that. He also mentioned that the cine line have built in fans and that means the sensor can be cooled, so I would say heat management with running full frame 4K is causing them problems. It is Canon’s belief that the R has the best video implementation of any mirrorless camera currently on the market.

Anti-aliasing filters, Canon believes that moire is a problem until you hit 150mp but current technology means that will be too much noise with such high pixel densities.

No professional camera will have a flippy flappy screen as they are not robust enough. The issue is not the hinge but the ribbon cable.

For the foreseeable future Canon will maintain EOS, EOS-m, and R running concurrently. The unifying thread being EF lenses which can be mounted on all platforms. The R is not a replacement for any camera (ie 5d iv, or 6d ii) but is being seen as an adjunct to the Canon ecosystem. There will be more DSLRs down the track although what was unspecified. Even with several people being very persistent there was no info on whether any higher spec’d R system cameras would be released.

one card slot was only specified as the R is not aimed at professionals, or prosummers but nondiscerning casual photo enthusiasts. Although he did say that by using the UHD SD card Canon were future proofing the camera.

When asked how the R would perform with third party lenses we were told they would probably be incompatible as the new protocols require the lens to have its own database on its operational parameters. At this moment in time Canon will not licence the mount to other companies, and if Tamaron or Sigma were to build R mount lenses it would be likely that they won’t give access to all the functions.

Overall the main takeaway from this was that customers will get what Canon says is best for them.

Personally I was prepared to preorder, but after the presentation at the moment I don’t think the R would give me what I want and I would be probably better served with shooting with my current DSLRs and using m4/3 when I want to shoot a mix of video and stills.
 
that sounds realistic to me. Nevertheless, as a nature photographer, I personally still hope for a 7DIII and 5DsR II. Nikon's excellent D500 & D850 competitors are significantly superior here . But I'm very sceptical, too, that those upgrades will happen and Canon will further invest in the DSLRs except maybe for a 1Dx III. It's more probable that they will release a 50 MP Rs II or whatever they call it and don't compete with themselves by lauching a 5DsRII. That said, given the millions of EF lenses around, it will be a key point for the acceptance of ML by the user base if there's no loss in AF precision and speed and/or no centering issues by mounting the adapters on the ML R-cams. Nikon's AF-S line up has some serious drawbacks on ML because those lenses don't perform as well for subject tracking, at least, since their stepper motors are not designed for the focus movement on sensor AF required by ML. So it remains to be seen, if Canon's EF lenses work better on the adapters and as well as on the DSLRs . The Sony/Metabones combo isn't an acceptable solution for AF in the wildlife/sports department - and often fails even for stationary subjects. Of course, it's no problem with the original Sony lenses designed for their MLs. However, I don't think that the overwhelming majority of DSLR users is willing and has the financial base to trash all their investments in EF lenses for a restart with R from the scratch. I will definetely not do so and if there are issues using EF lenses on ML I will stick with my DSLRs for the foreseeable future and skip the ML hype. BTW, it also will be interesting to see, if Canon's solution can minimize the impact of sensor dust probably very evident on ML cameras.

Anyway, I agree that Canon probably won't skip the DSLR solution for the olympics 2020 yet and that they lauch the 1DX III by then. It's still too risky to rely on the ML-R here because the pro sports shooters and all the agencies won't invest in new lenses for the R mount yet and Canon just released the 400 III and 600 III with EF mount . This indicates that they stick with the EF mount for the sports market for the very next future. I don't think that the pro shooters want to fiddle around with adapters either. But I guess the 1DxIII will be the last release on the DSLR front, unfortunately.

Wolfgang

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wjaekel-foto.de
 
The information that Sigma and Tamron lenses probably can't be made compatible with the R mount is a huge thing to know. That makes the mount useless in my book. A mount with no third party lenses is a dead mount.
 
Paul Amyes said:
Just got back from a Canon event for the new R. We had one of the top Canon educators for Australia giving the presentation. Lots of good questions were asked and the answers were very interesting.

4K video crop was done to avoid pixel binning as Canon thinks that is a bad idea. There will be no better video implementation in a MILC or dSLR as Canon’s official line is that you can buy a vine camera for that. He also mentioned that the cine line have built in fans and that means the sensor can be cooled, so I would say heat management with running full frame 4K is causing them problems. It is Canon’s belief that the R has the best video implementation of any mirrorless camera currently on the market.

Anti-aliasing filters, Canon believes that moire is a problem until you hit 150mp but current technology means that will be too much noise with such high pixel densities.

No professional camera will have a flippy flappy screen as they are not robust enough. The issue is not the hinge but the ribbon cable.

For the foreseeable future Canon will maintain EOS, EOS-m, and R running concurrently. The unifying thread being EF lenses which can be mounted on all platforms. The R is not a replacement for any camera (ie 5d iv, or 6d ii) but is being seen as an adjunct to the Canon ecosystem. There will be more DSLRs down the track although what was unspecified. Even with several people being very persistent there was no info on whether any higher spec’d R system cameras would be released.

one card slot was only specified as the R is not aimed at professionals, or prosummers but nondiscerning casual photo enthusiasts. Although he did say that by using the UHD SD card Canon were future proofing the camera.

When asked how the R would perform with third party lenses we were told they would probably be incompatible as the new protocols require the lens to have its own database on its operational parameters. At this moment in time Canon will not licence the mount to other companies, and if Tamaron or Sigma were to build R mount lenses it would be likely that they won’t give access to all the functions.

Overall the main takeaway from this was that customers will get what Canon says is best for them.

Personally I was prepared to preorder, but after the presentation at the moment I don’t think the R would give me what I want and I would be probably better served with shooting with my current DSLRs and using m4/3 when I want to shoot a mix of video and stills.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the report, Paul - very interesting . However, their statements on the 4K limitations as well as on the articulated screen are ridiculous. Sony and to a certain degree Nikon prove the contrary. The real reason for cutting the 4K options is the fact that they want to protect their Cine line. As to the screen, I haven't heard of anybody yet regarding the D850 with the articulated screen being "non professional" and having issues with the ribbon cable. I'm a Canon shooter for almost 40 years now but it's very disappointing that they tell fairytales in some aspects. Your report makes me think even more that I will probably stick with my DSLRs for the foreseeable future, too.

Wolfgang

http://www.wjaekel-foto.de

BTW, it's funny that they regard the R with the very expensive lenses such as the f2/28-70mm and 1.2/50mm aimed to the casual shooter
 
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Paul Amyes said:
When asked how the R would perform with third party lenses we were told they would probably be incompatible as the new protocols require the lens to have its own database on its operational parameters. At this moment in time Canon will not licence the mount to other companies, and if Tamaron or Sigma were to build R mount lenses it would be likely that they won’t give access to all the functions.
Click to expand...
this likely is DLO inside of the camera and things like vignetting correction, etc.

They don't work now on the EF mount either.
 
WJaekel said:
Paul Amyes said:
Just got back from a Canon event for the new R. We had one of the top Canon educators for Australia giving the presentation. Lots of good questions were asked and the answers were very interesting.

4K video crop was done to avoid pixel binning as Canon thinks that is a bad idea. There will be no better video implementation in a MILC or dSLR as Canon’s official line is that you can buy a vine camera for that. He also mentioned that the cine line have built in fans and that means the sensor can be cooled, so I would say heat management with running full frame 4K is causing them problems. It is Canon’s belief that the R has the best video implementation of any mirrorless camera currently on the market.

Anti-aliasing filters, Canon believes that moire is a problem until you hit 150mp but current technology means that will be too much noise with such high pixel densities.

No professional camera will have a flippy flappy screen as they are not robust enough. The issue is not the hinge but the ribbon cable.

For the foreseeable future Canon will maintain EOS, EOS-m, and R running concurrently. The unifying thread being EF lenses which can be mounted on all platforms. The R is not a replacement for any camera (ie 5d iv, or 6d ii) but is being seen as an adjunct to the Canon ecosystem. There will be more DSLRs down the track although what was unspecified. Even with several people being very persistent there was no info on whether any higher spec’d R system cameras would be released.

one card slot was only specified as the R is not aimed at professionals, or prosummers but nondiscerning casual photo enthusiasts. Although he did say that by using the UHD SD card Canon were future proofing the camera.

When asked how the R would perform with third party lenses we were told they would probably be incompatible as the new protocols require the lens to have its own database on its operational parameters. At this moment in time Canon will not licence the mount to other companies, and if Tamaron or Sigma were to build R mount lenses it would be likely that they won’t give access to all the functions.

Overall the main takeaway from this was that customers will get what Canon says is best for them.

Personally I was prepared to preorder, but after the presentation at the moment I don’t think the R would give me what I want and I would be probably better served with shooting with my current DSLRs and using m4/3 when I want to shoot a mix of video and stills.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the report, Paul - very interesting . However, their statements on the 4K limitations as well as on the articulated screen are ridiculous. Sony and to a certain degree Nikon prove the contrary. The real reason for cutting the 4K options is the fact that they want to protect their Cine line. As to the screen, I haven't heard of anybody yet regarding the D850 with the articulated screen being "non professional" and having issues with the ribbon cable. I'm a Canon shooter for almost 40 years now but it's very disappointing that they tell fairytales in some aspects. Your report makes me think even more that I will probably stick with my DSLRs for the foreseeable future, too.
Click to expand...
Why do you assume they are telling you "fairytales"? If a manufacturer really believes a certain component is not up to pro use do you really expect them to use it anyway? Perhaps you should pop into Canon's Service Centre in Willich and ask them how often ribbon cables that are constantly flexed break? You might then realise why Canon is wary of them in Pro gear.

No, a responsible manufacturer is one which does not expect its users to be guinea pigs and only uses components that it is certain are up to the job.
WJaekel said:
Wolfgang

http://www.wjaekel-foto.de

BTW, it's funny that they regard the R with the very expensive lenses such as the f2/28-70mm and 1.2/50mm aimed to the casual shooter
Click to expand...
It's not that funny really. It demonstrates the possibilities of the lens mount. Remember this particular camera is just the first of a series.
 
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Well, I wonder why Nikon (and many other manufacturers) can build the articulated screen into their pro models such as the D 850 while Canon claims that it's not robust. I don't think that Nikon can afford to use crappy and regulary failing parts in their high end cameras and I have never heard of any problems from fellow photographers. So either Canon actually cannot make it as robust as the competitors - then they in fact must stay away from this very useful option for macros, video etc - or the educator was misinformed about the availability of this feature in Canon's next model.

Secondly, pixel binning, heating etc. evidentally is no serious problem for the other big players anymore offering FF 4K for a long time now. I'm pretty sure that the real reason is that they just want to protect their Cine line which is mentioned in the report, too. BTW, that the EOS R is offering the best video quality currently available on the market is a pretty bold statement, I think.

Moreover, the AA filter is skipped (or cancelled out) in their own 5DsR, the NIkon D850 and Sony a7rIII. I don't see any benefit of it except for beauty & fashion photographers maybe more often facing moiree. Nevertheless, the educator evidentally stated that they will keep the AA filter. That said, this would not be the major point for me compared to the other drawbacks.

In the end I stand with my opinion that the informations on the future perspective reported by the educator are disappointing and misleading at best. The only good thing is the announcement that they will not give up on the DSLRs and EF-mount for the foreseeable future. I hope that this information is true, at least.

I agree that the lenses are projected for higher end models, too. But telling that the EOS R is targeted just to the casual photographer sounds pretty arrogant because you need to buy lenses, of course, even if you are a casual photographer - at least if you don't have EF lenses and start from the scratch. Apart from the 24-105, the lenses - that's to say their price - seems pretty out of this world for the audience they claim to address, though. But maybe some customers just buy the R + 24-105 - or enjoy the boxed camera body until more affordable lenses are released for the so- called casual crowd ;-)

BTW, I'm Platinum member for a long time and personally know the CPS staff. So I don't need to drive to their desk in Willich to get informations That said, will definetely follow your advice and talk to them on these points on the Photokina.

Wolfgang
 
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WJaekel said:
Secondly, pixel binning, heating etc. evidentally is no serious problem for the other big players anymore offering FF 4K for a long time now.
Click to expand...
My take is that it continues to be an issue of FF readout if a 30mp sensor - that is a lot of data to move. Canon of course will not be sitting still so it is coming, question is when. I am quite confident that the next 1Dx will have no crop, low rolling shutter 4k.

Having said that, my feeling is that 4k is more of a reviewer pan rather than an issue for most Canon customers. Even 1080 video is expensive to process in terms of storage, time etc. and 4k multiplies the issues significantly.
WJaekel said:
I agree that the lenses are projected for higher end models, too. But telling that the EOS R is targeted just to the casual photographer sounds pretty arrogant because you need to buy lenses, of course, even if you are a casual photographer - at least if you don't have EF lenses and start from the scratch. Apart from the 24-105, the lenses - that's to say their price - seems pretty out of this world for the audience they claim to address, though. But maybe some customers just buy the R + 24-105 - or enjoy the boxed camera body until more affordable lenses are released for the so- called casual crowd ;-)
Click to expand...
I think Canon released the lenses to dispel any notion that they are not serious about the R platform. It is simply a strong signal that they will invest in this system, improved bodies to follow.
 
Paul Amyes said:
Just got back from a Canon event for the new R. We had one of the top Canon educators for Australia giving the presentation. Lots of good questions were asked and the answers were very interesting.

When asked how the R would perform with third party lenses we were told they would probably be incompatible as the new protocols require the lens to have its own database on its operational parameters. At this moment in time Canon will not licence the mount to other companies, and if Tamaron or Sigma were to build R mount lenses it would be likely that they won’t give access to all the functions.
Click to expand...
Just checking I understand this correctly; the incompatibility would concern new third party lenses trying to be native RF mount lenses, rather than EOS - protocol - speaking currently existing third party EF mount lenses used with an adapter?
 
WJaekel said:
Well, I wonder why Nikon (and many other manufacturers) can build the articulated screen into their pro models such as the D 850 while Canon claims that it's not robust. I don't think that Nikon can afford to use crappy and regulary failing parts in their high end cameras and I have never heard of any problems from fellow photographers. So either Canon actually cannot make it as robust as the competitors - then they in fact must stay away from this very useful option for macros, video etc - or the educator was misinformed about the availability of this feature in Canon's next model.

Secondly, pixel binning, heating etc. evidentally is no serious problem for the other big players anymore offering FF 4K for a long time now. I'm pretty sure that the real reason is that they just want to protect their Cine line which is mentioned in the report, too. BTW, that the EOS R is offering the best video quality currently available on the market is a pretty bold statement, I think.

Moreover, the AA filter is skipped (or cancelled out) in their own 5DsR, the NIkon D850 and Sony a7rIII. I don't see any benefit of it except for beauty & fashion photographers maybe more often facing moiree. Nevertheless, the educator evidentally stated that they will keep the AA filter. That said, this would not be the major point for me compared to the other drawbacks.

In the end I stand with my opinion that the informations on the future perspective reported by the educator are disappointing and misleading at best. The only good thing is the announcement that they will not give up on the DSLRs and EF-mount for the foreseeable future. I hope that this information is true, at least.

I agree that the lenses are projected for higher end models, too. But telling that the EOS R is targeted just to the casual photographer sounds pretty arrogant because you need to buy lenses, of course, even if you are a casual photographer - at least if you don't have EF lenses and start from the scratch. Apart from the 24-105, the lenses - that's to say their price - seems pretty out of this world for the audience they claim to address, though. But maybe some customers just buy the R + 24-105 - or enjoy the boxed camera body until more affordable lenses are released for the so- called casual crowd ;-)

BTW, I'm Platinum member for a long time and personally know the CPS staff. So I don't need to drive to their desk in Willich to get informations That said, will definetely follow your advice and talk to them on these points on the Photokina.

Wolfgang
Click to expand...
Canon aren't Nikon, or indeed anyone else. They have always taken their own view on things. Just because others take a different view does not mean it's not a genuine belief within the company. They might be right, they might be wrong, but given the issues with ribbon cables on the 24-105L, and experience with swivel screens going back a couple of decades at least with camcorders and compact digitals, I think they have at least some grounds for their concern. They might be being overly conservative, but that's generally worked fairly well for them.
 
Mika Y. said:
Paul Amyes said:
Just got back from a Canon event for the new R. We had one of the top Canon educators for Australia giving the presentation. Lots of good questions were asked and the answers were very interesting.

When asked how the R would perform with third party lenses we were told they would probably be incompatible as the new protocols require the lens to have its own database on its operational parameters. At this moment in time Canon will not licence the mount to other companies, and if Tamaron or Sigma were to build R mount lenses it would be likely that they won’t give access to all the functions.
Click to expand...
Just checking I understand this correctly; the incompatibility would concern new third party lenses trying to be native RF mount lenses, rather than EOS - protocol - speaking currently existing third party EF mount lenses used with an adapter?
Click to expand...
Can’t say as no further explanation was given. Sorry.
 
WJaekel said:
WJaekel wrote: But I guess the 1DxIII will be the last release on the DSLR front, unfortunately.

Wolfgang
Click to expand...
I really doubt this.

While it *may* happen at some point in the future, there is absolutely no way that the mirror will be finished at Canon after the next product generation- 1 series or not. Heck, I would be surprised if Canon would even be willing to MARKET a mirrorless camera with the 1 series moniker then.

I am assuming that the next 1D series will be out for the 2020 Olympics.
 
danski0224 said:
danski0224 said:
WJaekel wrote: But I guess the 1DxIII will be the last release on the DSLR front, unfortunately.

Wolfgang
Click to expand...
I really doubt this.

While it *may* happen at some point in the future, there is absolutely no way that the mirror will be finished at Canon after the next product generation- 1 series or not. Heck, I would be surprised if Canon would even be willing to MARKET a mirrorless camera with the 1 series moniker then.

I am assuming that the next 1D series will be out for the 2020 Olympics.
Click to expand...
What I am really dreaming about is 1D-Mirrorless. I don;t want any smaller body than the curent 1Dx, then I will jump in right away and sell all my 1-series body + D500 with vertical grip.
 
MayaTlab0 said:
MarshallG said:
MayaTlab0 said:
rxb dc said:
From what I can tell, there are three major gaps today in Canon products (including the R):

1. Sensor Readout speeds which probably is affecting both 4K (crop) and AF in servo mode. Remains unclear if this is business choice or a technology limitation. My money is that this is a business choice as I cannot imagine that Fuji or Panasonic can invest and make a better sensor than Canon (Sony has more scale so they have some advantages)
Click to expand...
Fuji cameras use sensors made by Sony. Most Panasonic cameras too.

It's just that Canon can't manufacture faster sensors for a given cost. They've given priority to investing in manufacturing capabilities that enable them to propose other technologies (such as DPAF). But so far we haven't seen a Canon sensor boasting the sort of technological arrangements that have enabled Sony sensors to read faster.

Given both the 6DII and the R sensors, don't expect a miracle any time soon.
Click to expand...
We don't know if the limitation is the output speed of the sensor, or the input speed/processing speed of the Digic chip.

We also don't know how fast Canon's DPAF can be. If Canon develops an ultra-fast Digic, can DPAF focusing be fast and accurate enough for 7, 10 or 20fps? Can they handle 20fps across hundreds of focus points, and track subjects at that rate? It would be nice, of course, but we don't know what their abilities or plans are.
Click to expand...
We already know that it isn't the Digic as it can perform 7,4fps with tracking on the M50. Same goes for 4K : the M50 can encode in 4K 120mbps for 30minutes with no signs of overheating in a tiny, tiny body. Canon's Digic processor is just fine, really. Besides Canon doesn't manufacture these, so they can just shop around if they need better.

No, it's the readout speed. Nearly all of the R's problems can be traced back to that :

- cropped 4K, because of excessive rolling shutter

- no 120fps @1080p (the Digic can handle that just fine)

- massive rolling shutter in fully electronic shutter mode

- low fps with tracking (DPAF can't take a picture and read PDAF information at the same time, it's sequential)

- lack of liveview feed in between frames in continuous drive mode

etc.

Which makes sense since the sensor is something Canon manufactures themselves and because these need heavy investments it isn't exactly like Canon's can flick their fingers and suddenly tadaaa ! FF 4K and 20fps with tracking.
Click to expand...
Yes, indeed. They key shortcoming is sensor read-out bandwidth. This is where Canon’s semiconductor tech appears to be lagging, and fixing it would be a very capital-intensive proposition.
 
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