EF lenses

gezzamondo said:

I'm sure I won't be the only one who is extremely frustrated with canons decision to change the mount fir their mirror less camera.

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I understand completely the decision to go with a new mount, and have no plans to change anytime soon. My EF and EF-S lenses still work as do my APS-C bodies. I'll be interested in seeing how well the adapters work with Canon's as well as 3rd party lenses. But given the specs, I'm actually considering adding a 6D or 6D II to my kit instead. The cost of the R as well as the lenses other than the 24-105 are out of my budget.

gezzamondo said:

I've got so many EF lenses and I keep reading reviews about the adapters causing the autofocus not to perform correctly

Are all future canon mirrorless cameras going to use the new mount and all EF lenses will require an adapter?

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I can't see why in the world Canon would release a MILC with an EF mount, do you? I'm absolutely certain any FF mirrorless will use the R mount.

gezzamondo said:

I'm so tempted just to sell all my canon equipment and move to Sony, I've waited so long to see what canon release in competition with Sony and Nikon and to be honest, it's been a complete let down

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Do whatever you need to. I can't see myself completely changing systems, I haven't the time or funds to do that. At the end of the day it won't improve my photography.

Mark

gezzamondo said:

I'm sure I won't be the only one who is extremely frustrated with canons decision to change the mount fir their mirror less camera.

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It's only a very minor disappointment that I couldn't mount my EF lenses without an adapter but the adapters are so small and well made that it doesn't bother me. More importantly, the EF adapter has a new control ring built into it to allow me access to the sort of control ring the new RF lenses have on the end of the assembly tube. It was inevitable that Canon would need to consider a new mount in order to truly advance any future lens designs. The new RF mount allows Canon to develop some amazing improvements with future lenses that the other manufacturers can't come close to with their own mounts. Canon are thinking forward.

gezzamondo said:

I've got so many EF lenses and I keep reading reviews about the adapters causing the autofocus not to perform correctly

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I own about ten different EF-mount L-series lenses for which I've spent tens of thousands of dollars collecting carefully. These lenses will perform perfectly on the EOS R camera with the adapters. The sample images already uploaded from different EF lenses taken with the R camera are simply beautiful. Your EF lenses will continue to function on the EOS R camera and you won't need to worry about MFA because the DPAF sensor will be determining whether or not the lens is focused.
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I've been using my EF lenses (from my FF DSLRs) on the EOS M6 mirrorless APS-C to take advantage of the crop factor and I'm getting a really snappy (quick) response on this camera due to the DPAF sensor. The M6 came out a while ago and the new R has a -6 EV with fast lenses... I beleive the new R models will be fast enough and I'm not hearing any complaints other than someone here at DPreview saying the touch screen had a very slight lag to it (which is not likely to be an issue of they would have made a bigger fuss over it). I think it kind of sits between the 6D II and the 5D IV yet offers more advanced benefits and has a more striking design (just my opinion there).

gezzamondo said:

Are all future canon mirrorless cameras going to use the new mount and all EF lenses will require an adapter?

Click to expand...

Yes. RF lenses will be the main lenses developed for future R-series cameras. There will be the occasional EF lens produced and repairs will still be possible for at least a decade... but the RF system is Canon's future lens mount for the 21st century. All EF lenses will indeed require an adapter to fit onto the EOS M and EOS R system cameras. Canon declared that Consumer DSLRs will be dead in just a few years and they're future-proofing themselves by creating a mount that can still accept EF lenses (via an adapter) without compromising image quality. And this new mount is all about image quality.

gezzamondo said:

I'm so tempted just to sell all my canon equipment and move to Sony, I've waited so long to see what canon release in competition with Sony and Nikon and to be honest, it's been a complete let down

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If you're not happy right now, knowing what we already know about Canon's new release, you might not be satisfied and you may have to wait another year to see if Canon will make and release a new model. I'm under the impression Canon might release a cheaper version with less features but will most likely release a higher model with much more expensive features - Most of the EOS R data and information and samples are already out there now to help you make a decision. The goal ought to be image quality. Then performance. After IQ and Performance meets your needs, look at what the camera CAN'T do for you. If you make your decision in this order, you can't go wrong. I don't see Sony as a solution for myself. I also wouldn't see the Nikon system as being any better than the R (quite the opposite, in my opinion).
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I'm extremely impressed with the image quality from the new RF lenses from Canon... even the cheap (yes it is) RF 35mm f/1.8 IS Macro STM lens that they've released with the EOS R. Take a look with Google and you can uncover some really impressive shots with that inexpensive new lens. There's only a few out there for the 35mm but take a look at the shots reviewers and testers have been getting with the other lens. Photographers have been taking beautiful pictures with Canon cameras for many decades... The RF lens mount is a very logical step for Canon and I'm more than happy with their first Full Frame mirrorless camera. The grass is always going to be greener elsewhere.
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If you are genuinely not happy with what Canon has offered with the EOS R, you can sell of your gear and move to another platform. But I do wonder what your existing camera (whatever that might be) and lenses can't do that makes you wish the R would accept the EF lenses ...but that the R can't possibly come close to satisfying in terms of performance that another brand can. Good luck with your decision but I don't think you'll be happy if you stay since you're obviously unmoved in the face of the new tech from Canon. If this didn't "wow" you in some way, it's because you've either been cruising anti-Canon sites or because the new camera fails to address your needs in some way. Either way, you appear disappointed and I would worry that you'd likely suffer from Buyer's Remorse (which is a very real thing).

Alexsfo said:

olstrup said:

Alexsfo said:

The only inconvinience of adapters when you have multiple EF lenses, you need to remove the adapter from one of the lenses and put it on another EF lense before you can mount it on EOS R body.

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Why take the adapter off the camera for every lens swap? Leave it on and it will be an extention of the camera body which will work like an EF camera body (mount wise that is). That way you can forget about the adapter.

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Because most folks will have at least one RF lens as well.

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Yes, mixed lens mounts can be a mess. With dumb adapters one can sometimes use stacked adapters. I do that with a ML camera I use with legacy Leica M and Nikon F MF lenses. There's a M mount adapter permanently on the camera and the nikon lenses has F to M adapters on them so I only have to use one type of rear lens caps for all the lenses and can swap easily. But stacking is not an option with smart adapters like the native ones from Canikon and when native lenses are in the mix.

Marco Nero said:

gezzamondo said:

I'm sure I won't be the only one who is extremely frustrated with canons decision to change the mount fir their mirror less camera.

Click to expand...

It's only a very minor disappointment that I couldn't mount my EF lenses without an adapter but the adapters are so small and well made that it doesn't bother me. More importantly, the EF adapter has a new control ring built into it to allow me access to the sort of control ring the new RF lenses have on the end of the assembly tube. It was inevitable that Canon would need to consider a new mount in order to truly advance any future lens designs. The new RF mount allows Canon to develop some amazing improvements with future lenses that the other manufacturers can't come close to with their own mounts. Canon are thinking forward.

Marco Nero said:

I've got so many EF lenses and I keep reading reviews about the adapters causing the autofocus not to perform correctly

Click to expand...

I own about ten different EF-mount L-series lenses for which I've spent tens of thousands of dollars collecting carefully. These lenses will perform perfectly on the EOS R camera with the adapters. The sample images already uploaded from different EF lenses taken with the R camera are simply beautiful. Your EF lenses will continue to function on the EOS R camera and you won't need to worry about MFA because the DPAF sensor will be determining whether or not the lens is focused.
.
I've been using my EF lenses (from my FF DSLRs) on the EOS M6 mirrorless APS-C to take advantage of the crop factor and I'm getting a really snappy (quick) response on this camera due to the DPAF sensor. The M6 came out a while ago and the new R has a -6 EV with fast lenses... I beleive the new R models will be fast enough and I'm not hearing any complaints other than someone here at DPreview saying the touch screen had a very slight lag to it (which is not likely to be an issue of they would have made a bigger fuss over it). I think it kind of sits between the 6D II and the 5D IV yet offers more advanced benefits and has a more striking design (just my opinion there).

Marco Nero said:

Are all future canon mirrorless cameras going to use the new mount and all EF lenses will require an adapter?

Click to expand...

Yes. RF lenses will be the main lenses developed for future R-series cameras. There will be the occasional EF lens produced and repairs will still be possible for at least a decade... but the RF system is Canon's future lens mount for the 21st century. All EF lenses will indeed require an adapter to fit onto the EOS M and EOS R system cameras. Canon declared that Consumer DSLRs will be dead in just a few years and they're future-proofing themselves by creating a mount that can still accept EF lenses (via an adapter) without compromising image quality. And this new mount is all about image quality.

Marco Nero said:

I'm so tempted just to sell all my canon equipment and move to Sony, I've waited so long to see what canon release in competition with Sony and Nikon and to be honest, it's been a complete let down

Click to expand...

If you're not happy right now, knowing what we already know about Canon's new release, you might not be satisfied and you may have to wait another year to see if Canon will make and release a new model. I'm under the impression Canon might release a cheaper version with less features but will most likely release a higher model with much more expensive features - Most of the EOS R data and information and samples are already out there now to help you make a decision. The goal ought to be image quality. Then performance. After IQ and Performance meets your needs, look at what the camera CAN'T do for you. If you make your decision in this order, you can't go wrong. I don't see Sony as a solution for myself. I also wouldn't see the Nikon system as being any better than the R (quite the opposite, in my opinion).
.
I'm extremely impressed with the image quality from the new RF lenses from Canon... even the cheap (yes it is) RF 35mm f/1.8 IS Macro STM lens that they've released with the EOS R. Take a look with Google and you can uncover some really impressive shots with that inexpensive new lens. There's only a few out there for the 35mm but take a look at the shots reviewers and testers have been getting with the other lens. Photographers have been taking beautiful pictures with Canon cameras for many decades... The RF lens mount is a very logical step for Canon and I'm more than happy with their first Full Frame mirrorless camera. The grass is always going to be greener elsewhere.
.
If you are genuinely not happy with what Canon has offered with the EOS R, you can sell of your gear and move to another platform. But I do wonder what your existing camera (whatever that might be) and lenses can't do that makes you wish the R would accept the EF lenses ...but that the R can't possibly come close to satisfying in terms of performance that another brand can. Good luck with your decision but I don't think you'll be happy if you stay since you're obviously unmoved in the face of the new tech from Canon. If this didn't "wow" you in some way, it's because you've either been cruising anti-Canon sites or because the new camera fails to address your needs in some way. Either way, you appear disappointed and I would worry that you'd likely suffer from Buyer's Remorse (which is a very real thing).

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I have to say that that was a very well considered and considerate response and probably much more appreciated than my somewhat terse reply to the OP. I hope he finds the sensible points made useful.

BirdShooter7 said:

They didn't say it wasn't a replacement for the mount. They repeatedly say that the R doesn't replace any current product. I'm sure that they will be releasing future EF lenses and EF mount bodies but it seems pretty clear that Canon sees the future as being mirrorless and RF mount. The adapters and EF lenses are transition products. In the compatibility video they even say use the lenses of today on the camera (RF mount) of the future... if they intend to release an EF mount mirrorless camera for telephoto use I would love to know about it sooner rather than later but it just doesn't seem to make much sense for them to do so. As nice as that new 600mm f/4 looks I am inclined to hold off on purchase of it until it is clear that they aren't planning on shifting the entire lens line to RF mount. If they are planning on release of RF mount telephoto lenses in the next 5 or so years then I would rather wait and get that.

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There is another argument against the production of future EF lenses that you have neglected -- they are compromised. They can be adapted to other manufacturer's bodies easily. Canon never wanted this, otherwise they would have made their lenses for other manufacturer's bodies themselves, like Sigma does.

Of course, the RF lenses might be adapted too. But I am guessing that will be pretty difficult with the new fly-by-wire controls, probably new patents designed to make adaptation difficult, and the smaller flange distance.

You need to think about this from a money-making perspective.

its about the lenses not the camera.

Maybe that is a consideration but it also means upsetting customers by forcing you into OEM only lenses and accessories. This is why I never bought into Apple despite their products being otherwise pretty attractive. Really the biggest advantage Canon has as far as I can tell is the EF system. Abruptly walking away from it seems quiet dumb and indications are that Canon won't be doing that.

However, I would be pretty frustrated to drop $10k+ on a lens with the old mount if they come out with a version with the new mount that can better take advantage of future features a year or two later. It would be different if I didn't already have a 600mm f/4 to use in the mean time but as attractive as the lighter weight is im not nearly as compelled to rush out and buy the mk3 in light of the new mount. The marketing material for the new system makes the potential of the RF mount sound appealing.

gezzamondo said:

This whole thing is so frustrating, especially after waiting so long for cannon to release something.

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I too was hoping for a mirror less EF mount camera. That said, I see some real advantages to the new mount.

gezzamondo said:

I'm really tempted just to sell everything and start again. I have a few EF sigma lenses which I love but I really don't want to start buying adapters for them.

I think the best option for me is to make the switch to a A7Riii and buy all the Sigma lenses again with the E mount.

Sony are still way ahead of everyone, I thought Canon would have released something that blew both Sony and Nikon out the water but they've not, they've had plenty of time to do it and have failed

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You will feel like you took a real beating switching to the Sony ecosystem and not only from a financial point of view. Give up Canon lens and flash systems? Give up Canon ergonomics and color? Just to pick up a little DR and gadgetry in the rinky dink bodies with the fiddly controls? Not me.

Canon did as Canon always does. They pushed the limits of ergonomics and lens design. I've always heard that the shorter flange distance would allow for better lenses that would be physically impossible to create with the DSLR mount. But all I have seen are ho hum Sony lenses that cost more and deliver less than what Canon offers for the EF mount.

Canon is obviously focused on delivering on the promise of superior mirror less lenses.

The new controls, particularly the programable ring on the lens and the control bar, are really exciting to me, as is the ability to focus down to -6 EV.

Sony has nothing to compete with the above.

If I shot video, I might be disappointed with the 4K crop, but video is too much like work, so I don't care. I would like IBIS and some of the Sony gadgetry, but Canon has brought unique features that could actually improve the photography process.

BirdShooter7 said:

Maybe that is a consideration but it also means upsetting customers by forcing you into OEM only lenses and accessories. This is why I never bought into Apple despite their products being otherwise pretty attractive. Really the biggest advantage Canon has as far as I can tell is the EF system. Abruptly walking away from it seems quiet dumb and indications are that Canon won't be doing that.

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Agreed, but that hasnt stopped Canon from making great lenses only in their mount for years. Do you think that it never occurred to them that they could make their lenses with Pentax or Nikon mounts to try to sell more of them?

BirdShooter7 said:

However, I would be pretty frustrated to drop $10k+ on a lens with the old mount if they come out with a version with the new mount that can better take advantage of future features a year or two later. It would be different if I didn't already have a 600mm f/4 to use in the mean time but as attractive as the lighter weight is im not nearly as compelled to rush out and buy the mk3 in light of the new mount. The marketing material for the new system makes the potential of the RF mount sound appealing.

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Yeah. If I had just dropped a lot of money on an 24-70 EF 2.8L lens and Canon comes out with this 28-70 RF 2.0L lens, that would be kinda disappointing. But there are justifications -- this RF lens will be heavier, it's not as wide, there is no image stabilization for it until Canon comes out with an IBIS body, and it is more expensive. So I think there are justifications to overcome the inevitable buyer's remorse.

As long as you dont use the camera body tripod mount, I dont think longer lenses such as a 600mm f/4 will benefit as much from a larger lens mount, so RF versions of those are probably a long way off, but they will come with the next "mark" version. From here on, I dont think you will see many newly redesigned or truly new lenses come out in EF mounts -- we wont see an EF 50mm 1.2 mark II -- the RF 50mm 1.2 is the "mark II" version of the EF 50mm 1.2 lens.

robblackett said:

gezzamondo said:

This whole thing is so frustrating, especially after waiting so long for cannon to release something.

I'm really tempted just to sell everything and start again. I have a few EF sigma lenses which I love but I really don't want to start buying adapters for them.

I think the best option for me is to make the switch to a A7Riii and buy all the Sigma lenses again with the E mount.

Sony are still way ahead of everyone, I thought Canon would have released something that blew both Sony and Nikon out the water but they've not, they've had plenty of time to do it and have failed

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I confess I don't really understand this need for something that "blows everything else out of the water". It's also a pretty crass phrase.

I wonder, do you really believe that the difference between brands is so great that you will gain much, if anything by switching? And will you do it again in a year or two when some other company comes up with something (theoretically) better?

Having said all that I'm not sure I take your post that seriously. If you've been waiting for cannon (sic) that long I'm surprised you haven't at least learned to spell it correctly.

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Deary me, you must have such a boring life if all you can do is call me out on a basic spelling mistake

Seen from the bright side we now have two camera manufacturers fighting hard for our attention regarding future use our ef-lenses. That is a very good situation to be in!

Initial previews seems to suggest that Sony with Sigma adapters still has an edge, but that may change when Canon matures their technology.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.

I think a reason Canon doesn't try to sell their lenses in Pentax and other manufacturers mounts is that if they have to reverse engineer things there can be issues with things not working properly damaging their reputation.

Lawn Lends said:

There is another argument against the production of future EF lenses that you have neglected -- they are compromised. They can be adapted to other manufacturer's bodies easily. Canon never wanted this, otherwise they would have made their lenses for other manufacturer's bodies themselves, like Sigma does.

...

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A Canon lens sold for adaption onto a competitor's camera is one less lens sold by that competitor - I don't think Canon has too much of a problem with that.

gezzamondo said:

robblackett said:

gezzamondo said:

This whole thing is so frustrating, especially after waiting so long for cannon to release something.

I'm really tempted just to sell everything and start again. I have a few EF sigma lenses which I love but I really don't want to start buying adapters for them.

I think the best option for me is to make the switch to a A7Riii and buy all the Sigma lenses again with the E mount.

Sony are still way ahead of everyone, I thought Canon would have released something that blew both Sony and Nikon out the water but they've not, they've had plenty of time to do it and have failed

Click to expand...

I confess I don't really understand this need for something that "blows everything else out of the water". It's also a pretty crass phrase.

I wonder, do you really believe that the difference between brands is so great that you will gain much, if anything by switching? And will you do it again in a year or two when some other company comes up with something (theoretically) better?

Having said all that I'm not sure I take your post that seriously. If you've been waiting for cannon (sic) that long I'm surprised you haven't at least learned to spell it correctly.

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Deary me, you must have such a boring life if all you can do is call me out on a basic spelling mistake

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Some details actually matter. And even if your post is only a petulant rant your credibility is bound to suffer if you can't even get the company you are complaining about spelled correctly.