lattesweden
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But we will never adapt RF lenses on FE. It isn't physically possible. Nikon Z might be able to take them physically since they have 4 mm distance to produce a tube adapter and they have about the same mount diameter, so there it might work, but not on FE.No need to break compatibility with EF lenses. It's just enough that they break compatibility with RF. One way to do it completely transparently is to allow encryption and leave it disabled for the time being.If Canon changes the EF-mount protocol then they need to issue firmware upgrades to every EF-mount camera that has been made since 1987. Doesn't sound reasonable. Older bodys might not even be possible to upgrade without being sent in. Sound like a support nightmare.There are adapters and then there are adapters. Adapters between different brands often rely on reverse engineering and there's no guarantee of future compatibility. I have nothing against reverse engineering, but it does come with risks, including one side deliberately breaking it.
Same with the Z lenses, will not be adaptable on FE physically.
So for FE, it is only the Canon EF lenses (and other existing lens brands of course) in play and those they will most likely not change the protocol on.
Yes, true, if they did that. But that is still a firmware upgrade nightmare since people needs to update all their stuff at the same time. The support department will get a call or two thousands, maybe even more.If Canon or Nikon gain market slowly and ramp up as they expect, everything is fine. But as soon as there is risk that third party RF lens makers are having a nice living at their expense, they release firmware upgrades (and later new cameras) that are digitally signed and cannot be downgraded from, and have a programmed encryption enable kill switch. At that moment, all communication (or at least the initial handshake) between the body and RF lens (or RF-EF adapter) is encrypted, and your third party RF lenses become expensive paperweights. And this forces those third party makers to license RF at any cost, or accept returns from dissatisfied users.
But if they did that then the 3d party makers of RF and Z lenses would have bricks, yes.
But we would still adapt the EF lenses just fine on FE, so why worry?
How do you know when a lens has been stolen and how do you distribute that info to all other bodys so they don't accept that lens? Or do you want to have a password or fingerprint reader on every lens so it needs to be unlocked when you mount it? Don't you think mirrorless cameras have slow enough starting times as they have already?You know what's funniest about this? It has all the needed features at once. It's legal, it's trivial, it's cheap, it's innocuous and it can be sold as being for a good cause (for instance to prevent stolen lenses from working).
Maybe an Iris scanner in the EVF also?
Yes, open standards are always preferable than proprietary ones for the users.That's why not having an open mount today (as opposed to 1980s) is something to be extremely wary of.
Yes, and it also slows down their own communication by using CPU power to chew the encryption. And even if the body probably has CPU power enough, does the lenses? And it will drain battery quicker, like the CIPA ratings isn't bad enough for the R (and Z).Encryption with digital signatures using private key infrastructure is virtually impossible to break.Also the reverse engineering people are fairly good at figuring things out so it wouldn't probably take long before they know the change made, and the adapters have firmware upgradability and the users of those are used to upgrade the adapters as well, since the development pace is high.
Yes, speed boosters are good on crop sensor bodys. But has no meaning for FF unless you start to adapt medium format lenses made for larger image circles, then it would be meaningful again as the usecase is the same (lens made for larger sensor adapted to cropped sensor).Moreover, their advantages completely outweigh any potential losses. A well made focal reducer will boost light by a stop and increase resolution (even if you lose, say, 10% of total resolution, you still gain 31% (41-10) with a 0.7x focal reducer).Those adapters are basically only used on crop sensors to boost light by using more of the otherwise lost image circle and when the flange to sensor distance is longer on the body it will be adapted to. So doesn't apply to mirrorless FF bodys with their short flange to sensor distance, adapters for those are all glass less inside.Adapters involving optical elements also introduce more glass into the light path, so more loss.
You are right that we don't know if it is pass through or not, I found that explanation in an article somewhere on the net and I am old enough not to trust everything I read on the net, but it sounded reasonable at least I thought. Since it is better to use the logic circuitry (the computer so to speak) in the body that already must be there for other things and a have the adapters totally logic free and only have a wiring that connects the pins on each mount side with the other side.We don't know that for sure. RF protocol is significantly faster and relatively inexpensive electronics can do EF translation on the fly. That's going to be necessary on the adapter with the control ring.The Canon R bodys seems to be double protocol knowledgeable so they speak EF and RF protocol and switches between them depending on what lens it recognizes. So the adapters seems to just be electrically passing the signal through.That's not the case here. All three parts of the system (lens, adapter, and body) are under Canon's direct control, and the adapter itself is basically an extension tube (perhaps with protocol conversion that again is under Canon's control).
The RF mount has more pins, so it can be so simple that they just added on extra communication on the side, like plugging in two Ethernet ports on your NAS.
It can also be that the adjustable ring is connected on the extra pin contacts to the body and talks to it and that the body then sends the signal to the lens on the usual EF protocol on those pins. Pure speculation from my side. But if one can choose the function on that ring and I understand it like that, it must communicate with the body. In time someone will figure it out how it really works.
We should have spotted the extra pins then.New EF lenses can be expected to allow dual mode, though. If it detects it's on a fairly recent body, it will switch to RF protocol, and fall back to EF as needed. This may include future DSLRs, and in fact may include current DSLRs and lenses, it might have been quietly introduced already.That is well done by Canon. The RF protocol is faster with a higher clock frequency. One must remember that EF was made in 1987 so things have happened since then.
But you are right that Canon maybe could extend the new DSLR bodys with more pins if it isn't something physically that hinders that against the EF-mount and they could make future EF lenses dual knowledge and also have the extra pins in their mounts. But at least I have a hard time to see Canon going through with all that since it will require a lot of testing with all old bodys from 1987 and on so nothing accidentally stops to work physically and/or on a signal level. I can't see it being worth the work or the risk.
Ok, thanks for the explanation!It translates the commands, the protocol is completely different, although it might work in pass through with some new lenses as the A communication protocol was updated several years ago (A77 with 16-50 was the first release) and virtually all communication with supported lenses is done on one dedicated bidirectional line.I'm not sure how Sony has implemented the A-mount protocol in the E-mount adapters, like the LA-EA3, meaning if it just passes through or translates.
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Best regards
/Anders
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